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Old 03-22-2010, 08:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Lufthansa 777

What if Lufthansa or Lufthansa Cargo would order 772's ???

Check it out (Hope you like it):
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:29 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

Lovely. But here, I must say, Lufthansa has missed the plane, oops, I meant the boat. The only way LH gets near a T7 is via its Joint venture with DHL called Aerologic.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:37 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

[QUOTE=swisshansa10;782789Lufthansa has missed the plane[/QUOTE]

It's a tragody, but your right...the only possibility I am still hoping for, is that LH replaces their MD11 Cargo fleet with 77F's, but it's not gonna happen i guess....
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

Not with the current economic situation where some MD11Fs are even parked....
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:49 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

Great pictures of the mighty beast in LH-livery - thank you very much!!!
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Old 05-08-2010, 07:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

hmm... Looks good!! Why not LH get some! Or it is there close relationship with Airbus that prevents them from getting a T7!
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Old 05-09-2010, 01:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

I dont think there is any special relationship between LH and Airbus. LH is jointly developing the B747-8I with Boeing. Of course, LH has got a very high Airbus component in their fleet but dont think it has got a bias towards them. Yes, once the B737 start going out of the fleet and A319/320/321 start coming in and B744 gets replaced by A380, the only Boeings that will be left in the fleet will be the B747-8I (as and when it is introduced)
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Old 05-19-2010, 11:26 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Kris Air View Post
hmm... Looks good!! Why not LH get some! Or it is there close relationship with Airbus that prevents them from getting a T7!
They have A340s. Why replace relatively new and efficient planes with 777s for no reason?

LH does not have any special relationship with anybody. They order aircraft from all major manufacturers, they have large fleets of Airbuses, Boeings, Bombardier and Embraer.
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Old 05-19-2010, 05:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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They have A340s. Why replace relatively new and efficient planes with 777s for no reason?
Performance. It Takes All It's Got For The 343 To Get Up In The Air And With A Full Load, The 343 Needs Every Inch Of 11,000+ Feet Of Runway And Miles Beyond That To Get Any Safe Altidude.
Capacity Is Another Issue. The 77 Carries Extra 50 Seats & Quite A Bit More Cargo, Plus The 77W Has Far Greater Range.
Economics Seal The Deal. It Would Make Sense For LH To Trade Up, But I Think LH Is Still Piss.ed At Boeing For Cancelling The MD-11.
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Old 05-19-2010, 06:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Performance. It Takes All It's Got For The 343 To Get Up In The Air And With A Full Load, The 343 Needs Every Inch Of 11,000+ Feet Of Runway And Miles Beyond That To Get Any Safe Altidude.
Capacity Is Another Issue. The 77 Carries Extra 50 Seats & Quite A Bit More Cargo, Plus The 77W Has Far Greater Range.
Economics Seal The Deal. It Would Make Sense For LH To Trade Up, But I Think LH Is Still Piss.ed At Boeing For Cancelling The MD-11.
If LH was pissed at Boeing, why did they set up the 747-8I program in a cooperation?
Why did they paint a special Boeing - partnership since 50 years livery on one of their 744 to celebrate it?
Why did LH re-activate a 704 especially for this event?
Why does LH have more 748I on order and on option than A380?

I guess LH is really pissed...
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Old 05-20-2010, 04:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Thomas32125 View Post
If LH was pissed at Boeing, why did they set up the 747-8I program in a cooperation?
Why did they paint a special Boeing - partnership since 50 years livery on one of their 744 to celebrate it?
Why did LH re-activate a 704 especially for this event?
Why does LH have more 748I on order and on option than A380?

I guess LH is really pissed...
Boeing Cancelled LH's Order For MD-11s Thinking That They Could Push 77Fs On Them. But LH Didn't Agree.
Boeing's CEO At The Time Phil Condit Was Fired Over The Blunder. LH Was Upset.
The 748 Is A Different Issue. It Offers Capacity Between The 744 And The 380. Something LH Was Actually Looking For. This Of Course With Proposed Lower Operating Costs Than The 744 With Additional Capacity.
Great To Uppgrade Existing Routes, Opening New Markets And Replacing Early Model 744s.
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Old 05-20-2010, 08:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

Quote:
Originally Posted by L-1011-Heavy View Post
Boeing Cancelled LH's Order For MD-11s Thinking That They Could Push 77Fs On Them. But LH Didn't Agree.
Boeing's CEO At The Time Phil Condit Was Fired Over The Blunder. LH Was Upset.
The 748 Is A Different Issue. It Offers Capacity Between The 744 And The 380. Something LH Was Actually Looking For. This Of Course With Proposed Lower Operating Costs Than The 744 With Additional Capacity.
Great To Uppgrade Existing Routes, Opening New Markets And Replacing Early Model 744s.
I know that, but you said that LH is still pissed... Boeing wanted to promote their 77F, but LH wanted to renew their old 742F fleet in 1999/2000 immediately and it was kind of weird to expect LH to wait until 2009, a whole decade! (The first 77F was delivered to Air France on February 19 in 2009..)
The last new MD-11F was delivered in 2001 and remarked the end of the widebody trijet era... Since then LH tried to push Boeing for a new generation 747 aircraft, because LH thought that the A388 might be too big. The 744 will leave the fleet when the next gen 748I will join the fleet. LH splitted their 744 renewal into

20 748I orders and 20 on option, designed in a cooperation with Boeing especially for their needs like in the past with other aircraft types...

15 A388 orders and only 5 on option...

replacing 30 744 directly and the options are expected to replace the 26 A343... That would lead to:

40 748I
24 A346
20 A388
15 A333

LH ordered every main type of Boeing's aircraft except the 717 and the 777! (B757-230, B757-330, 767-330ER were ordered for LH's subsidary Condor in the 90s and some even had the LH livery for a short time... LH/DE asked Boeing to stretch the 757 and became the launch carrier shortly after the MD-11F order...)
It's great that LH and Boeing share souch a productive cooperation!
I guess without LH there wouldn't exists a new 747 at all and what would the skies be without the 747!?
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Old 05-21-2010, 05:04 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I know that, but you said that LH is still pissed... Boeing wanted to promote their 77F, but LH wanted to renew their old 742F fleet in 1999/2000 immediately and it was kind of weird to expect LH to wait until 2009, a whole decade! (The first 77F was delivered to Air France on February 19 in 2009..)
The last new MD-11F was delivered in 2001 and remarked the end of the widebody trijet era... Since then LH tried to push Boeing for a new generation 747 aircraft, because LH thought that the A388 might be too big. The 744 will leave the fleet when the next gen 748I will join the fleet. LH splitted their 744 renewal into

20 748I orders and 20 on option, designed in a cooperation with Boeing especially for their needs like in the past with other aircraft types...

15 A388 orders and only 5 on option...

replacing 30 744 directly and the options are expected to replace the 26 A343... That would lead to:

40 748I
24 A346
20 A388
15 A333

LH ordered every main type of Boeing's aircraft except the 717 and the 777! (B757-230, B757-330, 767-330ER were ordered for LH's subsidary Condor in the 90s and some even had the LH livery for a short time... LH/DE asked Boeing to stretch the 757 and became the launch carrier shortly after the MD-11F order...)
It's great that LH and Boeing share souch a productive cooperation!
I guess without LH there wouldn't exists a new 747 at all and what would the skies be without the 747!?
OK Let Me Rephrase That. Boeing WOULD Have Accellerated The 77F If In Fact LH Ordered 77Fs In Favour Of MD-11s Way Back In The Late 90s.
Cancelling The MD-11 Backfired For Boeing, Hence Delaying The 77F Until A New Launch Customer Was Interested A Decade Later.
It Is In My Opinion, That LH Stil Is Upset To The Point They Won't Even Look At 77s. Pax Or Otherwise.
The 747s Are A SEPARATE Issue, As Corprations, Like LH, Teats Each Type As A Sepaerate Business Deal And Separate Issues. The Soured MD-11 Deal Will Not Have Affected Other Types Such As The 747. Of Course, I Could Be Wrong, And As We All Know Time Does Heal, Perhads As More Time Passes, LH May Look At The 77 In Both Versions.
But IMO, I Still Think The 77 For LH Is Soured.
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Old 05-21-2010, 08:18 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by L-1011-Heavy View Post
Performance. It Takes All It's Got For The 343 To Get Up In The Air And With A Full Load, The 343 Needs Every Inch Of 11,000+ Feet Of Runway And Miles Beyond That To Get Any Safe Altidude.
Capacity Is Another Issue. The 77 Carries Extra 50 Seats & Quite A Bit More Cargo, Plus The 77W Has Far Greater Range.
50 extra seats must be sold for every flight, for being profitable. Otherwise it is just carrying 50 extra empty seats = extra weight without any use. Average utilization of Lufthansa aircrafts in 2009: 76,8 percent

Quote:
Originally Posted by L-1011-Heavy View Post
Economics Seal The Deal.
Right, but your arguments don't lead compulsorily to more efficiency and economic operation for Lufthansa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L-1011-Heavy View Post
It Would Make Sense For LH To Trade Up, But I Think LH Is Still Piss.ed At Boeing For Cancelling The MD-11.
Pure speculation. Lufthansa is a professional holding, not a child praying for revenge, after getting his lollipop taken away.

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Old 05-22-2010, 07:54 AM   #15 (permalink)
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50 extra seats must be sold for every flight, for being profitable. Otherwise it is just carrying 50 extra empty seats = extra weight without any use. Average utilization of Lufthansa aircrafts in 2009: 76,8 percent

Right, but your arguments don't lead compulsorily to more efficiency and economic operation for Lufthansa.

Pure speculation. Lufthansa is a professional holding, not a child praying for revenge, after getting his lollipop taken away.
That's exactly my point. Lufthansa shows with actual orders that they do not behave emotionally.
They decided to go for the 777 competitor A346 - that doesn't have anything to do with emotions, it's a business model!!!

Are Iberia, SAS, Finnair, Air Berlin, Swiss, Aer Lingus... pissed on Boeing, too? They all operated Boeing aircraft in the past, all had 747 except AB and they didn't go for the 777.. Austrian introduced the 777 only because they took over the Lauda Air fleet... I respect your point Heavy, but it's not plausible to me...
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:46 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

nice work. the trip 7 looks very "natural" in Lufthansa colors.
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Old 05-26-2010, 03:04 PM   #17 (permalink)
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50 extra seats must be sold for every flight, for being profitable. Otherwise it is just carrying 50 extra empty seats = extra weight without any use. Average utilization of Lufthansa aircrafts in 2009: 76,8 percent

Right, but your arguments don't lead compulsorily to more efficiency and economic operation for Lufthansa.

Pure speculation. Lufthansa is a professional holding, not a child praying for revenge, after getting his lollipop taken away.
The 777 Is Still More Economical Even With 50 Empty Seats, But Judjing By The Need Of 748/A-380, It Appears The 343 May Be Small At Times.
Let Me Rephrase Again.
50 Additioinal Seats Give Additional Potential Revenue, Coupled With Already Better Operating Costs, It's Win Win As Far As Economy Goes, But If You Actually TYook The Time To Interpret My Posts Instyead Of Licking Your Lolipops I Also Mentioned Performance.
LH Is Renkowned For Safety. And The Safety Factor Is Quite A Big Concern For LH. The 343 Takes Everything It's Got To Get Up And Go, And When It Rotates, It Has A Low Angle Of Attack Because It's Severely Underpowered. The 77 Also Uses Quite A Bit Of Runway But Has The Power To Climb. The 77 Is Far Safer In That Respect. ATC Controllers Dread The Arrival/Departure Of 340s Because Of It.
Add To Performance Additional Range Over All 340 Models And Additional Potential For Cargo Capacity Over The 343. Win Win In Every Category For The 777. It's Why Once Die Hard Bus Owners Are Switching And Or Augmenting Thier 340 Fleets With 777s.
And I Think You Went Too Far Off On A Bit Of A Tangent.
I Had Suggested The 777 Is A Better Choice For LH Because It Could Have Been Available As Pure Cargoliner PLUS Passenger Model.

And As Far As Business Deals Go, No Matter How Professional A Corporation Is, If A Large Company Is Soured By A Supplier, Then That Company Takes His Business Eleswhere. If Not For Emotional Reasons, For Professional Reasons Quite Often To Prove A Point. I Have Both Seen It And Experiened It.

Now Since You Couldn't Get The Jist Of What I Said Earlier And I Had To Spell It Out For You, Have A Seat In Your Armchair Executive Suite And Enjoy Your Lolipop.
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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If Lufthansa thought that the 777 was so much better than their A340s as you say, they would have ordered it by now. You post is pointless. Lufthansa is happy with their A340s since they are very capable and efficient aircraft.

Lufthansa is successfully operating their A340s and can make a profit with them. Thats all that matters.
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Old 06-09-2010, 04:18 PM   #19 (permalink)
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If Lufthansa thought that the 777 was so much better than their A340s as you say, they would have ordered it by now. You post is pointless. Lufthansa is happy with their A340s since they are very capable and efficient aircraft.

Lufthansa is successfully operating their A340s and can make a profit with them. Thats all that matters.
Well If What I Said Is Pointless, Then So Is This Thread. And I Never Said LH Doesn't Make Profit With It's 340s. I'm Just Pointing Out It's Been Proven Regardless Of Which Business Model, The 777 Makes More.
Also I Might Add Thier Purchase Power Would Have Been Better If They Had Ordered Pax Versions At The Same Time As Freighters.
Speculation Well Thought Out Is Not Pointless Either. It's Just As Much Fun As
The "What If" Threads. That Is Of Course Unless You Are A Stick In The Mud.
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:20 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

Quote:
If Lufthansa thought that the 777 was so much better than their A340s as you say, they would have ordered it by now. You post is pointless. Lufthansa is happy with their A340s since they are very capable and efficient aircraft.

Lufthansa is successfully operating their A340s and can make a profit with them. Thats all that matters.
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As mentioned above, LH is a pretty profitable airline with a very good business sense and model. I am sure if A340s were not making money they would be been sold off for a good price and B777 ordered immediately.
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Old 06-11-2010, 04:21 PM   #21 (permalink)
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As mentioned above, LH is a pretty profitable airline with a very good business sense and model. I am sure if A340s were not making money they would be been sold off for a good price and B777 ordered immediately.
Your Post Is As Redundant As A 5th Engine. No One, I Mean No One Said LH Wasn't Profitable. Dude Read All The Posts Before Posting Yourself.
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Old 06-11-2010, 05:29 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Well I think LH is one airline that has really used the A343 and A346 to its best possible advantage, and successfully too. I'm sure they have their reasons for wanting to continue to utilize them. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't LH have some sort of a stake in Airbus?

Virgin is another airline that seems to make good use of their A340's.



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Old 06-11-2010, 06:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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And I Never Said LH Doesn't Make Profit With It's 340s. I'm Just Pointing Out It's Been Proven Regardless Of Which Business Model, The 777 Makes More.
When did I say that you said LH can't make a profit with them? I was just saying that LH can make a profit with their A340s and thats all that matters. Maybe the 777 makes more money, but how would you justify the additional cost of acquiring them? LH most likely thinks that the additional cost of acquiring them is not justifiable therefore they continue to operate A340s and wait to order the 787/350 in the long term to replace their 330s and 340s.

Quote:
If I'm not mistaken, doesn't LH have some sort of a stake in Airbus?
No they dont.

Lufthansa is actually very balanced towards all manufactures. They operate large fleets from all 4 big aircraft manufactures.
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Old 06-11-2010, 06:52 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Performance. It Takes All It's Got For The 343 To Get Up In The Air And With A Full Load, The 343 Needs Every Inch Of 11,000+ Feet Of Runway And Miles Beyond That To Get Any Safe Altidude.
Capacity Is Another Issue. The 77 Carries Extra 50 Seats & Quite A Bit More Cargo, Plus The 77W Has Far Greater Range.
Economics Seal The Deal. It Would Make Sense For LH To Trade Up, But I Think LH Is Still Piss.ed At Boeing For Cancelling The MD-11.
I agree. The 343 and 380 look lethargic trying to get into the air. A 747 of any vintage is more nimble than those aircraft.

Not to mention the 777 looks good in LH colors.
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Old 06-12-2010, 06:13 PM   #25 (permalink)
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No airlines buys planes that "looks good" in their livery.
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:38 PM   #26 (permalink)
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When did I say that you said LH can't make a profit with them? I was just saying that LH can make a profit with their A340s and thats all that matters. Maybe the 777 makes more money, but how would you justify the additional cost of acquiring them? LH most likely thinks that the additional cost of acquiring them is not justifiable therefore they continue to operate A340s and wait to order the 787/350 in the long term to replace their 330s and 340s.



No they dont.

Lufthansa is actually very balanced towards all manufactures. They operate large fleets from all 4 big aircraft manufactures.
Well I'm Speaking Hypothetical From The Time LH Had A Choice Between Boeing 777 Or Airbus 340s, Long Before The 346 Was Concieved. You Know Way Back In The Mid To Late 90s.
It Doesn't Make Sense For LH To Change Up To 77s Now, But At The Time They May Have Had Better Purchasing Power, Particularly If They Had Ordered Freighters Alongside Pax Models. I'm Sure Boeing Would Have Offered Thier Several Times Launch Customer A Sweet Deal.
How Would You Know The Cost Of Acquiring Them Would Have Been "Additional"?
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Old 06-17-2010, 06:23 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

When Lufthansa ordered the A340, there was no 777 on the market. It was either the MD-11 or the A340.
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Old 03-16-2011, 09:03 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Finally this Thread doesn't belong to the What if - Section anymore!!!

Lufthansa ordered 5 B777F for LH-Cargo, to be delivered from 2013 on...
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Old 03-17-2011, 03:04 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

Would have been lovely to also buy pax versions....
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Old 03-17-2011, 05:59 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

Neener Neener!
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Old 03-18-2011, 10:09 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

I like the B777 in the cargo version.. Is LH switching a bit too Boeing because they have the B748I and some B777's on order.????
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:27 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lufthansa 777

It looks like the T7 freighter might become reality! I just read in Airliner World that LH Cargo going to order 5 of them!
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:50 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flight fan View Post
It looks like the T7 freighter might become reality! I just read in Airliner World that LH Cargo going to order 5 of them!
They already ordered them in march
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:22 PM   #34 (permalink)
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They already ordered them in march
Well, it was the March edition but i just read the article.
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:22 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Well, it was the March edition but i just read the article.
looks Like The Other Thread Flew Right Over Your Head As Well.
Why Do You Think I Posted #30 Way Back In March?
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Old 05-27-2011, 12:28 PM   #36 (permalink)
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looks Like The Other Thread Flew Right Over Your Head As Well.
Why Do You Think I Posted #30 Way Back In March?

Yeah. Oh well. It's great news none the less(is that one word or not?).
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