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Old 09-13-2019, 07:49 PM   #1
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Default F-35īs for Poland

The U.S. State Department has OK’d Poland to buy the F-35, America’s most advanced fighter, setting up the country as the newest customer for the fifth-generation jet.
Order covers 32 of the conventional-takeoff-and-landing F-35A variants.


https://www.militarytimes.com/global...uy-f-35-fleet/

What a move. Hoping to see them in Radom Air Show or NATO Days in Ostrava.



In the meanwhile, Czech Air Force will buy UH-1Y Venoms and AH-1Z Vipers:

https://www.janes.com/article/90732/...ll-helicopters

Unfortunately, no 1/72 Venom in diecast
... except timīs_1/72 awesome Code 3:



https://www.diecastaircraftforum.com...rs-1-72-a.html
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Old 09-14-2019, 01:02 AM   #2
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

I don't know why Poland does not exit from the European Union.
Poland Wants the benefits but does not Share the European values, prefers to support us military against the EU.

Last edited by HTF200; 09-14-2019 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 09-14-2019, 01:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

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I don't know why Poland does not exit from the European Union.
Poland Wants the benefits but does not Share the European values, prefers to support us military against the EU.

Ask the Australians how great their Tigers are working out.
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Old 09-15-2019, 02:48 PM   #4
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

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I don't know why Poland does not exit from the European Union.
Poland Wants the benefits but does not Share the European values, prefers to support us military against the EU.

I really don't want to discuss politics here as this forum is not for discussion of politics, but purely technically Iīm not sure which EU-made 5th generation fighter to be delivered in 2024 you had in mind, HTF200?
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Old 09-15-2019, 05:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

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I really don't want to discuss politics here as this forum is not for discussion of politics, but purely technically .......
Until DAC removes the word "politics" from this forum's description.......then it appears to be welcomed .... at least until it gets out of hand I presume

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Old 09-16-2019, 05:00 AM   #6
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

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Ask the Australians how great their Tigers are working out.
Yep,.....train crash. They are so much of a pickle about the whole affair,..there is still no decision on what to do with them.

Originally they were to be replaced,...but there is now talk wasting more money on the capability.
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Old 09-16-2019, 05:02 AM   #7
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

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I don't know why Poland does not exit from the European Union.
Poland Wants the benefits but does not Share the European values, prefers to support us military against the EU.
Notwithstanding the political connotation. Perhaps the F35 is the best platform for their air defence needs?? Perhaps bordering the Russian Bear provides a bit more realistic analysis on their defence needs.
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Old 09-16-2019, 05:07 AM   #8
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

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I don't know why Poland does not exit from the European Union.
Poland Wants the benefits but does not Share the European values, prefers to support us military against the EU.
what ****ing stupidity is this?

moderators - please remove the above puerile political bull**** from this forum (and all the followup messages, including this one, that have had to deal with it).

there's nothing true socially, economically, politically, or militarily about HTF's trollish nonsense.

Last edited by FortunateSon; 09-16-2019 at 05:10 AM.
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Old 09-16-2019, 06:18 AM   #9
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

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what ****ing stupidity is this?

moderators - please remove the above puerile political bull**** from this forum (and all the followup messages, including this one, that have had to deal with it).

there's nothing true socially, economically, politically, or militarily about HTF's trollish nonsense.
Absolutely agree . . . .so this means any EU nation that has ever purchased US military hardware should leave the EU right now. Could the last one out please switch off the lights. Ridiculous!
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Old 09-16-2019, 12:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

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Originally Posted by Light Fire Team View Post
Notwithstanding the political connotation. Perhaps the F35 is the best platform for their air defence needs?? Perhaps bordering the Russian Bear provides a bit more realistic analysis on their defence needs.
or maybe, buying US planes helps when you seek for their aid (political, economical, let's hope not military) against russians? those are the oldest kind of bribes between nations, if they have the money for f35s they have it for the typhoons too and while the f35s are more modern it's all on paper only the plane is totally untested.

and btw, i am not blaming them for this, nato nations have done the same for decades, or do you think the f104, the f100 or the f102 were the best fighters on the market?

Last edited by theo78; 09-16-2019 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 09-17-2019, 05:28 PM   #11
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

The stealth advantage of f-35 will be the first to go soon. but the network and info fusion of the f-35 will probably be a good thing to have for a while.


i think f-35 although costly is a better plane than f-104
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Old 09-17-2019, 07:09 PM   #12
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

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Quote:
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what ****ing stupidity is this?

moderators - please remove the above puerile political bull**** from this forum (and all the followup messages, including this one, that have had to deal with it).

there's nothing true socially, economically, politically, or militarily about HTF's trollish nonsense.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:55 AM   #13
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

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or maybe, buying US planes helps when you seek for their aid (political, economical, let's hope not military) against russians? those are the oldest kind of bribes between nations, if they have the money for f35s they have it for the typhoons too and while the f35s are more modern it's all on paper only the plane is totally untested.

and btw, i am not blaming them for this, nato nations have done the same for decades, or do you think the f104, the f100 or the f102 were the best fighters on the market?
For a start,...who does Poland think is more likely to assist,....or even have the capabilities to help secure their borders? The EU??

Secondly, the F100 was a pretty good jet. From a multirole capability point of view it was up there.

The F104,..you wont get an argument from me. The F104 is not a jet I think highly of.

As for the F102. Well,...look up 86th Air Division and you will note the F102 secured European skies for quite some time. It was a stand off interceptor, nothing more nothing less.
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Old 09-18-2019, 09:49 AM   #14
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

i am not saying that the planes were bad or useless but their adoption in france(the 100) or greece (the 102) was due to economical and political reasons, not only military, and the f35 is the same.
let's just hope that the capabilities are worth all this mess but the stealth and the information integration are in my opinion both potential strenghts and weaknesses.

the 104 is a different matter, the lochkeed cheated badly to sell it in Europe and japan.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:30 PM   #15
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not only military, and the f35 is the same.
let's just hope that the capabilities are worth all this mess but the stealth and the information integration are in my opinion both potential strenghts and weaknesses.
Well mate, 15 countries, including Israel and South Korea think its the right aircraft to be the backbone of the air combat capabilities for the next 30 years.

They all cannot be wrong?
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Old 09-18-2019, 08:27 PM   #16
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Well mate, 15 countries, including Israel and South Korea think its the right aircraft to be the backbone of the air combat capabilities for the next 30 years.

They all cannot be wrong?
There's not really much choices out there is there? RU still haven't field a production 5th gen. China has 2 types but i haven't heard them saying they offering any for sale yet.

A few other prototypes are on drawing boards elsewhere in various stages. So you really don't have much of a choice if you want to buy a 5th gen fighter right now. I mean pretty much one choice really.
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Old 09-18-2019, 08:33 PM   #17
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Well mate, 15 countries, including Israel and South Korea think its the right aircraft to be the backbone of the air combat capabilities for the next 30 years.

They all cannot be wrong?
i don't know to be honest, but let me ask this, do they have a real alternative? among the 5th gen planes ? i mean, could south korea buy the su57 or go to the chinese or even buying the rafales? ofc not, for political reasons they can't, so let's hope that the glue used for the f35s wings is good enough
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Old 09-18-2019, 10:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

Poland is a net beneficiary of EU funding.
Gets 17 billion € gives back 3,5 billion €
To buy us hardware ?
The issue is political as well as financial.

Last edited by HTF200; 09-18-2019 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 09-19-2019, 03:04 AM   #19
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Default Re: F-35īs for Poland

as for the F-35: yes, they can all be wrong but it seems likely that if more countries get involved the stronger the project has of being 'not a complete failure.' This doesn't mean that there will be value for money (whatever that means). but, it likely means that the countries involved will have an aircraft capable of the sort of missions that western nations have been engaged in recently (making days to weeks long campaigns against a hostile regime armed with russian surface to air defenses). if it comes to a larger mission (ie, the world countering a large scale overt russian invasion of ukraine), then it is important for participating nations to be able to benefit from the one thing that the F-35 is very good at which is confusing the enemy by working in conjunction with drone and digital dupes mean to confuse the defenders. Regardless of how good or not the S300/400/500 actually are beyond russian propaganda, there are only so many of them and if they can be spoofed the russians have little left (the su-57, as correctly pointed out, seems to be an abject failure).

F-102 is widely considered to be a failure through and through. LFT you may have cheated a bit by setting the bar too low.

Last edited by FortunateSon; 09-19-2019 at 06:07 AM.
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:39 PM   #20
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a
F-102 is widely considered to be a failure through and through. LFT you may have cheated a bit by setting the bar too low.
The F102 was designed to fire Conventional Missiles at Soviet Strategic Bombers, namely the TU16 and TU95.

That is what it was solely designed for. A 1000 were built and conducted this mission for over a decade in both continental US and the Europe.

In this specific mission, in which it was designed for,.....it was quite successful.

Bearing in mind, the aircraft first flew in 1953. ANG units were still using the type by the early 70s.

Have to disagree with you there FS. It did its job and it did well for the period and mission is was designed to fight.
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:50 PM   #21
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i don't know to be honest, but let me ask this, do they have a real alternative? among the 5th gen planes ? i mean, could south korea buy the su57 or go to the chinese or even buying the rafales? ofc not, for political reasons they can't, so let's hope that the glue used for the f35s wings is good enough
I completely disagree with the F35 being sold to any country,...for political reasons. Other than the understanding that integration in coalition, force generated capabilities are a whole lot easier when everyone is on the same operating page.

Not sure that's a vulnerability??
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Old 09-23-2019, 11:43 AM   #22
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The F102 was designed to fire Conventional Missiles at Soviet Strategic Bombers, namely the TU16 and TU95.
You mean the Tu95 "Bear?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSVqLHghLpw

The analogy is apt. Apt!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MpRt41tPoc

If by the standards of "there were no Tu95s flying over oklahoma city", then, well, yes, mission accomplished. Top marks. Great success. But i think in most other aspects, starting from its revolutionary tooling plan to its engine/weapons/weapons control issues to the fact that it seemed to be at best of very limited utility in other roles, the aircraft is generally considered to be a failure. to wit, it had to be entirely re-designed as the F-106. Contrast this to the Phantom II which flew just a few years after the first 102 and is still among us.

Which also begs the question 'why were 1000 of them made?' to which the answer is i think largely timing - better aircraft were coming, but there was a bomber panic then and there which needed to be filled with the best available at the time which for that brief window was the 102. the fact that so many got shunted off for secondary duties (ANG) i think tells the whole story.
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