IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D - DA.C
 

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Old 03-01-2019, 04:45 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

The Indian Air Force had claimed a MiG-21 Bison shot down a Pakistan Air Force F-16D Block 52.

Hobby Master had produced Vietnam adversary planes in the form of McDonnell Douglas F-4D Phantom II No. 67-550, Major Dan Cherry F-4D 13th TFS,. 432nd TRW (HA1838) which shot down a MIG-21 Jet Fighter 5112, piloted by Lt. Nguyen Hong My, North Vietnamese Air Force on 16 April, 1972 (HA0181).

With the conflicting disputed Kashmir still fresh, I hope HM will produce the MiG-21 Bison flown by Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman from the Indian Air Force’s 51 Squadron ‘Sword Arms’ and the PAF F-16D destroyed by a Russian Vympel R-73 close combat missile.

The IAF's 51 Squadron consisting of MiG-21 Bison, is based at Srinagar Air Force Station.


The F-16D Falcon used by PAF


The Proof that a PAF F-16 was shot down - remnant of AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs) found in Jammu & Kashmir.


The IAF pilot, Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman, that shot down the F-16 was captured in the disputed part of Kashmir.
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Old 03-01-2019, 06:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

he seems to be beaten...
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Old 03-01-2019, 06:58 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

sorry, the proof that an F-16 was shot down is the remnants of an air to air missile?

while i'm not saying that the event you described didn't happen, i am saying that kill claims in the decades of india/pakistan conflicts are EXTREMELY suspect even more than in other conflicts. For example, HM made a Sabre of Mahmood Alam (PAF) whose kill claims are almost entirely bull****. india has likewise trotted out quite a number of bull**** claims over the years.

It stands to note that the only outlets carrying the story are a few indian sites and, predictably, the russian propagandasphere, which is pushing it heavily. in addition to the picture of the aim-120, there's also a picture floating around out there which it is claim show part of the f-16s engine.

there is certainly no doubt that a MiG-21 or even a P-51 or a sopwith camel can in theory shoot down an F-16, especially if no combat is anticipated. and i'll certainly be willing to be convinced that this episode happened if suitable evidence is provided. but, as yet, it hasn't.

UPDATE: the "pic of engine" has been debunked. https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/myth-...xposed.604973/ I'm going to put this one squarely in the "propaganda bull**** that in a day from now only the russian media, who are STILL believe it or not also still pushing the donald cook / su34 / EMF lie, will still be pushing). as of now there is zero evidence of a shot down f-16 and plenty of evidence that has been deliberately faked in an attempt to push the f-16 story.

Last edited by FortunateSon; 03-01-2019 at 07:02 AM.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:24 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Don't take it so personal.

I did said: "The Indian Air Force had claimed a MiG-21 Bison shot down a Pakistan Air Force F-16D Block 52." The emphasis is CLAIMED.

I got the headline from David Cenciotti blog - THE AVIATIONIST,

"The Indian Air Force Claims A MiG-21 Bison Managed To Shoot Down A Pakistan Air Force F-16D Block 52".

Give the Indian time to prove. The Indian really wanted to prove to the Americans that the F-16 was indeed used in Skirmishes.
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Quote:
Originally Posted by kltower View Post
nobody's taking anything 'personal' but you. get over your bad self. the reality is that right now we have an indian claim that is backed up with nothing but provable lies and the wreckage of an AIM-120 which proves nothing.

it was YOU who wrote that you hope HM produces this. This indicates, clearly, that you believe the indian claim, even though the evidence now released suggests that it is bull****.

Furthermore, you wrote "The Proof that a PAF F-16 was shot down - remnant of AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs) found in Jammu & Kashmir." while the aviationist article wrote "No evidence to prove the claim that an F-16 was really shot down was presented."

try to be less stupid in the future. seriously.

Last edited by FortunateSon; 03-01-2019 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Keep cool FS... Kltower just mentionned his wishes and they are not so bad !
Indian mig-21 miss me in HM line... And a Pakistani falcon... i sign with two hands !


After, victories scoring are always hard to be confirmed... except the indian mig-21, clearly destroyed.
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Old 03-01-2019, 06:57 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

I'd be interested in the MiG-21 Bison that VARTHAMAN was shot down in. Not sure HM can do a Bison though.
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Old 03-01-2019, 07:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

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Keep cool FS... Kltower just mentionned his wishes and they are not so bad !
A bit harsh FS. Kltower is just reporting the news,...not making it.
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Old 03-01-2019, 07:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Try to be less aggressive in the future, FS. seriously.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Thanks guys.

I really don't mind models of PAF F-16 shooting down the IAF MiG-21. I am sure many of you would like to collect planes with actual combat records.

I think that's why RuAF planes with Syrian engagements sell well.
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Old 03-01-2019, 11:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Some outlets in the beginning said that the JF-17 Thunder was involved rather than F-16D, did Pakistan confirm that F-16s were involved?
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Old 03-02-2019, 12:32 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Mig-21! The Greatest distributor of F-16 parts in the world! Nice to see the old dog still has it!
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Old 03-02-2019, 03:38 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

More News on the MiG21 vs F-16 conflict

FACT: The crashed MiG-21 of Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman



Caution: NOT CONFIRMED NEWS FROM INDIAN MEDIA (maybe fake news)

The PAF pilot that was SUPPOSINGLY shot by Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman is Wing Commander Shahzaz Ud Din of 19 Squadron (Sherdils). He was said to be lynched by his own countryman. You can read about his fate here:
1) https://psuwatch.com/this-pakistani-...fical-records/
2) https://ipious.blogspot.com/2019/02/...ander-paf.html
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Old 03-02-2019, 03:55 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Not sure what to believe .. CU2785 seems to have crashed beyond repair in 2015... Hmmmm

Link here...

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=178959







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Old 03-02-2019, 04:00 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

SORRY. SORRY. MY MISTAKE.

You are right.
The above photo is the wreckage of an Indian Air Force MiG-21 Bison aircraft that crashed in Soibugh on the outskirts of Srinagar on August 24, 2015.
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Old 03-02-2019, 04:37 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

It would be nice to see a Bison made in diecast, probably too many changes to the mould but maybe one that can happen just before they retire it. I'd want one just to pair up with my Corgi MiG-21.

It was a pity Corgi didn't do an IAF Hunter (as well as Arab Hunters). And maybe HM will do an IAF MiG-23 at some point.

As for PAF models.... the F-104 from Corgi AND Witty took a loooooooong time to dump (actually the Corgi is still dumping 12 yrs later for £10, as is the IAF MiG-21) then again 3000! units is a tough sell for a niche theme.
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Old 03-02-2019, 07:34 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adour View Post
I'd be interested in the MiG-21
I know William at HM won't do it but i would rather see the IAF Mirage 2000..

https://www.diecastaircraftforum.com...1&d=1551530061
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IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D-indian-air-force-mirage-2000.jpg  
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Old 03-02-2019, 05:48 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

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I know William at HM won't do it but i would rather see the IAF Mirage 2000..
You want to see ANY Mirage and so would many of us.

HM missed the boat with this mould, not taking full advantage of the nations that could have been represented before they pulled the plug.
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Old 03-02-2019, 06:19 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

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You want to see ANY Mirage and so would many of us.

HM missed the boat with this mould, not taking full advantage of the nations that could have been represented before they pulled the plug.
Isn't that the truth! I spoke to a retailer over the phone about a month ago when I preordered my HM Mirage 2000 and he said its down to Dassault wanting too much of a % on models produced. I told him that i would pay an extra $8 or $10 for a Mirage model to help cushion the blow on this royalty fee and he said that number isn't even worth it he thought. Jeez how much do they ask?
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Old 03-02-2019, 06:24 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surinam Air 747 View Post
I know William at HM won't do it but i would rather see the IAF Mirage 2000..

https://www.diecastaircraftforum.com...1&d=1551530061
I would rather this one since that scheme is nearly identical to the French versions. But beggars cant be choosers can they?
IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D-mirage-2000eh-kf104-gwalior-afb-indian-air-force.jpg
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Old 03-02-2019, 08:50 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

The chance of these are zero though HM have already stated there won't be more then another 2 releases.

I wish they'd just suck it up, pay the royalty and charge the collector more for it, I'd rather pay more then not having the option of having the model at all, HM's mould is pretty good, it's just being wasted on the principle of not forking out for royalties.
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:34 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ukrainian_Falcons View Post
The chance of these are zero though HM have already stated there won't be more then another 2 releases.

I wish they'd just suck it up, pay the royalty and charge the collector more for it, I'd rather pay more then not having the option of having the model at all, HM's mould is pretty good, it's just being wasted on the principle of not forking out for royalties.
What's a fair price to pay for future releases on the Mirage 2000 mould? $97us Is what I will be paying for mine minus shipping. $110-$125?, what the bigger planes are retailing for. Personally I am willing to take a hit on Dassaults fee in order to obtain schemes that I would like to see realized 'Peru, India' on this mould. Just because I am willing to do so, does not mean everyone is though and the cost may keep some collectors from opening their wallets to these future releases. I'm curious what everyone else thinks about this?

Last edited by plane737; 03-03-2019 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:54 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Heres the 1/72 MAK F-16 Pakistan AF for some that may be interested. Who's mould are they using btw? Their own?
IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D-1-72-scale-diecast-f-16-block-52-pakistan-1-.jpg

IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D-1-72-scale-f-16-d-block-52-pakistan-air-force-diecast-general-dynamics-f-16.jpg
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Old 03-03-2019, 11:01 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

I retract my question. Clearly their own! Model looks like s**t and the price reflects it I guess.https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amer-Com-Pa...-/173556742648
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Old 03-03-2019, 11:12 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Quote:
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Heres the 1/72 MAK F-16 Pakistan AF for some that may be interested. Who's mould are they using btw? Their own?
Here's a not so old thread on M.A.K. ... To me it's a mish mash of different Manu's.... I base that on the different style display stands. Who knows? Eh...

https://www.diecastaircraftforum.com...er-brands.html

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Old 03-04-2019, 02:17 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

and one more thing, someone didn't like my avatar so I decided to change it to something more realistic. By the way these babies can shoot AMRAAMS too.
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:23 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

so, i get called out for pointing out that kltower was posting (and then doubling down on) bull**** that somebody who knows anything about modern military aviation should at the very least be skeptical of. what will be the forum response to the above?

Last edited by arinmuk; 03-04-2019 at 03:02 PM. Reason: removed quote
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Old 03-04-2019, 10:48 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Are you people collecting models or fighting virtual wars over the Internet???
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Old 03-04-2019, 01:47 PM   #29 (permalink)
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good job moderators, you erased all my comments and purposely left the bigotry, great camo indeed. Makes you wonder

Last edited by arinmuk; 03-04-2019 at 03:03 PM. Reason: removed quote
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:15 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

There's a famous quote from Singer Kamahl

Attachment 313330

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Old 03-04-2019, 07:44 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Are you people collecting models or fighting virtual wars over the Internet???
Sometimes I wonder.......................

IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D-ready-internet-war.jpg
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:04 PM   #32 (permalink)
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How they see themselves:

Attachment 313334

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Sometimes I wonder.......................

Reality:

Attachment 313336

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Old 03-04-2019, 08:27 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Poor people...
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Old 03-05-2019, 09:01 PM   #34 (permalink)
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The tail section of the crashed plane compared to a normal plane.

BTW, how different is Bison compared to bis PHYSICALLY? I thought Bison was modified/upgraded from existing IAF MiG-21bis inventory.

I mean can HM do a bison from its existing mould?

Last edited by arinmuk; 03-06-2019 at 04:50 PM. Reason: irrelevant
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Old 03-05-2019, 09:09 PM   #35 (permalink)
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The 1st picture is of the nose section, the radome still looks pointy....
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Old 03-06-2019, 02:06 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: IAF MiG21 vs PAF F-16D

Quote:
Originally Posted by kltower View Post
I mean can HM do a bison from its existing mould?
It would need significant tooling modifications. New windshield and canopy, upper wing-root/fuselage fairings, fin leading edge bullet. IMHO no chance of them doing all that for just one release.

Bear in mind that the HM MiG-21bis is a cheat anyway because the intake is unmodified.
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