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Old 11-22-2018, 03:52 AM   #1
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Default T-50

Maybe something for Hobby Master ? Would be very nice side by side with their Flanker !
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Old 11-22-2018, 06:32 AM   #2
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Default Re: T-50

Not usually a fan of prototype planes but this does look really nice, especially that scheme,

Chances of it ever being made by HM, next to zero but hey, we can all dream right
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Old 11-22-2018, 09:58 AM   #3
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Default Re: T-50

It's already coming in 1/72 diecast, Herpa announced one for next year.

I'd like one but I'm patient. I'd like an operational configuration and livery, not developmental. Also, I'd like it to be based on a decent kit. No repetition of HM's three rushed and spectacularly awful F-35 toolings thanks.
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Old 11-22-2018, 07:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: T-50

Have you seen the price ?
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Old 11-23-2018, 03:11 AM   #5
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Default Re: T-50

109,95 Euro ... I think that will be the future of diecast airplanes: new models available above 100 Euro ...
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Old 11-23-2018, 04:26 AM   #6
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Default Re: T-50

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Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
109,95 Euro ... I think that will be the future of diecast airplanes: new models available above 100 Euro ...
It pretty much already is
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:37 PM   #7
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Default Re: T-50

Continuing with the theme:

Herpa 1/72 T-50/SU-57 model as appeared on Nurnberger Toy Show 2019


Lets wait for more images but what I see so far looks good to me. Better than AF1 PAK-FA in every case. But ....

... it also looks like we have some answers here, gents:
Do you agree this is AF1 mold?

I would say so as there is the exact same mistake on the inlets at the base of the vertical fins: outwards on Herpa and AF1, inwards on real T-50.




Also - check the two panels at the nose under the windscreen - they are exactly same:


Also:
  • mold construction (division lines at the front) - exactly same
  • canopy - looks to be same
  • if you look closely at the 055 number behind the canopy, in front of it you´ll see remnants of typical AF1 riveting.
  • and if you look more closely on the whole model, you´ll see the original AF1 riveting everywhere, even it looks not so prominent as on AF1.

There were some huge errors on AF1 PAK_FA:
  • wrong height of the rear main gears
  • disgusting riveting
  • AF1 tailfins needed to be angled bit more

If I´d be pesimistic, I´d say that Herpa will just use the old AF1 mold, maybe with tweaked rear main gears. We will have to wait for more photos, anyway it would be nice to check the situation with Herpa directly.

Can maybe someone provide any working link to someone in Herpa? (They have a Contact form on their website but not sure if it really works....)
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Old 02-05-2019, 04:41 AM   #8
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Default Re: T-50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladia View Post

Do you agree this is AF1 mold?



If I´d be pesimistic, I´d say that Herpa will just use the old AF1 mold, maybe with tweaked rear main gears. We will have to wait for more photos, anyway it would be nice to check the situation with Herpa directly.
Interesting points. Disappointing if it is the same tooling.
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Old 02-05-2019, 04:59 AM   #9
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Default Re: T-50

sorry, how can it be both 'looks better than the AF1 mould in every way' and there are questions if it is the same mould?

the overall feel i get from that photo is that it looks like the low grade plasticky stuff made for the chinese internal market.
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:06 AM   #10
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I really hope it is not the same mould (and also a serious price for an AF1 copy). After the plastic window of the B-1B, this could be the second disaster (for me) from Herpa ...
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo View Post
I really hope it is not the same mould (and also a serious price for an AF1 copy). After the plastic window of the B-1B, this could be the second disaster (for me) from Herpa ...
has herpa made a good model yet in 1/72?
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: T-50

Bad news....
Owning the af1 t50, I am deeply sorry to announce that the picture of the herpa model shows a 80% similar model to the af1
Similar shape, similar canopy, inlet, gravings on the nose...etc etc .
So herpa t50 is an air force 1 mold

I ll pass....
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Old 02-05-2019, 02:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: T-50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcat380 View Post
Bad news....
Owning the af1 t50, I am deeply sorry to announce that the picture of the herpa model shows a 80% similar model to the af1
Similar shape, similar canopy, inlet, gravings on the nose...etc etc .
So herpa t50 is an air force 1 mold

I ll pass....
It is supposed to be the same aircraft.

80% similarity indicates a different tooling. Not the same one.

Herpa and Air Force1 are unlikely to share toolings.
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Old 02-25-2019, 11:56 AM   #14
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Default Re: T-50

Wow...the price for a possible, not possible, AF1 moulded Herpa selling plane....



You know ... In this day and age...higher prices for 1/72's seem to becoming the norm. But I guess some collectors could rationalize paying those prices when you consider those who collect 1/200's and smaller scales. They pay higher prices on average for a much smaller scale.

Below is an example. It appears to me IMO, It's a scale versus price .... For 1/72 collectors its large size for less price, more bang for the buck mentality, for 1/200 collectors it's small size for higher price mentality. Then there's the question of model detailing..how much will collectors be willing to pay for the size and detailing. Some collectors may believe that the best detailing is found at a certain scale over another scale.

Bottom line.... Those diehard 1/72 collectors should consider not harping to bad on high prices, just consider what your 1/200 collectors brethren are paying for there models and you will think your still getting a 1/72 at a bargain price

1/200 prices



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Old 02-25-2019, 02:24 PM   #15
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Default Re: T-50

I do a lot of 1/200, large aircraft.

1) I usually get 10-20% off (or more) of those listed prices. Just because it lists as MSRP doesn't mean that's final...

2) Honestly I feel I'm getting more bang for my buck with 1/200 in terms of metal content and attention to detail. HM MiG-23, for example...over $100 for what feels like more than half plastic, and then questionable colors, overspray, sometimes bad fit for the ordnance, etc. Whereas most of my commercial 1/200 stuff comes with crisp, solid paint lines, nice detailing, and it's a solid chunk of metal. Admittedly the scaling is clearly different so there won't be small stuff like pitot tubes, AOA vanes, etc, but sometimes it's still there like the Inflight and Gemini E-4s.

Herpa marking up the AF1 T-50 by more than 50% isn't surprising. They have their hits and misses, but their pricing is the biggest miss of all.

Last edited by Jumper; 02-25-2019 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 02-26-2019, 09:21 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Jumper View Post
I do a lot of 1/200, large aircraft.

1) I usually get 10-20% off (or more) of those listed prices. Just because it lists as MSRP doesn't mean that's final...

2) Honestly I feel I'm getting more bang for my buck with 1/200 in terms of metal content and attention to detail. HM MiG-23, for example...over $100 for what feels like more than half plastic, and then questionable colors, overspray, sometimes bad fit for the ordnance, etc. Whereas most of my commercial 1/200 stuff comes with crisp, solid paint lines, nice detailing, and it's a solid chunk of metal. Admittedly the scaling is clearly different so there won't be small stuff like pitot tubes, AOA vanes, etc, but sometimes it's still there like the Inflight and Gemini E-4s.

Herpa marking up the AF1 T-50 by more than 50% isn't surprising. They have their hits and misses, but their pricing is the biggest miss of all.

Absolutely agree with your point about high Herpa prices and would like to see them in more reasonable ranges. Anyway unfortunately despite such an insanely high prices and sometimes weird colour schemes, we cannot overlook that all of their 1:72 jets are practically sold out. So actually collectors themselves support this Herpa price policy. Nothing we could do about it of course, just accept - and suffer .

As far as T-50 is concerned, I´ll personally wait for the final product photos. If Herpa uses unchanged AF1 mold (... which is almost for sure), even with corrected landing gear I´ll have troubles to convince myself to purchase all those insanely oversized rivets. If miracle happens and exaggerated rivets vanish, I´ll probably buy, despite "Herpa" prices.
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:08 AM   #17
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Default Re: T-50

Alternative to Herpa, SU-57 by AF1.
Just newly listed on eBay as AF1 1/72 New Russian Sukhoi T-50 (Su-57) diecast Fighter model.
Herpa´s bort is 055.






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Old 08-02-2019, 10:38 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Ladia View Post
Alternative to Herpa, SU-57 by AF1.
Just newly listed on eBay as AF1 1/72 New Russian Sukhoi T-50 (Su-57) diecast Fighter model.
Herpa´s bort is 055.





Thanks Ladia. Either those pictures are distorted, or the cockpit is severely stunted. Rearwards facing AAMs and devoid of probes and aerials?

On the positive side it seems nicely painted and stenciled - even if the stencils don't have proper writing!

Last edited by Adour; 08-02-2019 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 08-02-2019, 12:01 PM   #19
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Thanks Ladia. Either those pictures are distorted, or the cockpit is severely stunted. Rearwards facing AAMs and devoid of probes and aerials?

On the positive side it seems nicely painted and stenciled - even if the stencils don't have proper writing!
I have one of theses also. we need to have a new mould too..lol

the bay is not keyed so you can place them facing forward or rear ward...lol i gues we could ve have all 6 rearward facing missiles?

AF1 actually got some cool features not avail on HM like all moving horizontal stabs.. like force of valor. the pivoting point is fragile however...
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Old 08-02-2019, 12:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adour View Post
Thanks Ladia. Either those pictures are distorted, or the cockpit is severely stunted. Rearwards facing AAMs and devoid of probes and aerials?

On the positive side it seems nicely painted and stenciled - even if the stencils don't have proper writing!
Not sure what you mean by "cockpit is severely stunted", but if you mean canopy shape, it really looks somehow higher than should be (but not a deal breaker for me)


Rearwards facing AAM: just a wrong assembly. AF1 weapon bays come as separate parts and probably can be inserted in both directions.


On the positive side it seems nicely stenciled: totally agree with Adour. One of the strongest points of this model.


Rised screws from below don´t look very good, anyway I´m personally most worried by oversprayed grey in tail area and behind the "056" numbers. Here the Herpa prototype looks much better. If cheaper AF1 will have these oversprays and Herpa not, I´m afraid I´ll have to buy more expensive Herpa. But that´s just me....





Last edited by Ladia; 08-02-2019 at 12:19 PM. Reason: Added image
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Old 08-02-2019, 01:39 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by wildpig View Post
I have one of theses also. we need to have a new mould too..lol

the bay is not keyed so you can place them facing forward or rear ward...lol i gues we could ve have all 6 rearward facing missiles?

AF1 actually got some cool features not avail on HM like all moving horizontal stabs.. like force of valor. the pivoting point is fragile however...
Figured the AAMs were reversable, but I couldn't let it go without a comment.

I have some modern AF1s, if you choose carefully, they're not all bad by any means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladia View Post
Not sure what you mean by "cockpit is severely stunted", but if you mean canopy shape, it really looks somehow higher than should be (but not a deal breaker for me)
I meant less streamlined than it should be. Either too tall or not long enough, can't be bothered to measure it to work out which. Very obvious to my eyes so it would be a dealbreaker for me.
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:21 PM   #22
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Quote:
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I meant less streamlined than it should be. Either too tall or not long enough, can't be bothered to measure it to work out which. Very obvious to my eyes so it would be a dealbreaker for me.
I see your point. Hopefully real model will look more acceptable.

Even with mistakes, this is one of the best AF1 models, if not their very best.

Anyway because of overspray I´ll wait for Herpa effort.
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Old 08-03-2019, 05:21 AM   #23
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I jumped on this one straight away. While the model quality is lower, the price is reasonable and nobody else makes one. 520misslady is my first choice for AF1, AVIC and Terebo. I have bought many recent Russian and Chinese fighter jets from this site on e-bay and have been very happy with the service.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:24 PM   #24
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Lucky you, dollfins. More and more I start to think that this is so far the very best model made by AF1.

Anyway:
- Where exactly you see "lower model quality" of AF1 SU-57? In which points/areas?
- Has your model similar overspray as on photos above ? (around the tails, at the base of moving LERXes ...)
- If overspray exists: your personal assessment - is this overspray visually real bad or is almost negligible?

Thanks
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Old 08-03-2019, 10:37 PM   #25
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My T-50 has been ordered, but has not arrived yet, so I cannot comment on the over spray. I have the original "prototype" model with the fractal camo and the over spray is quite noticeable. Also the panel lines are not as sharp as you would get on a HobbyMaster model. Despite these minor shortcomings I am still happy to have any sort of T-50 model.
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Old 08-03-2019, 11:13 PM   #26
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Also, if you want J-20 or J-31, at this point, you don't have any other choices except AF1.... too bad the AF1 J-20 and J-31 gears are not removable. other than that, they are actually quite decent for the price..
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Old 08-03-2019, 11:42 PM   #27
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I have both the J-20and J-31 in their prototype liveries. I am looking forward to getting models in operational liveries in the future.
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Old 08-26-2019, 03:30 AM   #28
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Both of my T-50/SU-57's have now arrived. Despite the different brand names, they share the same mold and packaging. The AF1 example has the previously mentioned over spray at the base of the tail planes. Fortunately, it is not very noticeable from the front. They are nicely detailed and have a good weight to them.
Attached Thumbnails
T-50-af1-su-57-00.jpg   T-50-af1-su-57-01.jpg   T-50-af1-su-57-02.jpg   T-50-af1-su-57-03.jpg   T-50-unistar-su-57-00.jpg  

T-50-unistar-su-57-01.jpg   T-50-unistar-su-57-02.jpg   T-50-both-su-57-01.jpg  
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Old 08-26-2019, 04:05 AM   #29
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looks nice! i got the camo one too. when it's production then HM will make one.
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Old 08-26-2019, 04:38 AM   #30
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Yes, I am slowly getting the HM versions of the AF1/AVIC/Terebo/Live For Interest/UNISTAR, etc. models that I have. I am happy to have both, as they each have their good and bad points.
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Old 10-04-2019, 07:30 PM   #31
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Just received the Herpa T-50. It is the Air Force 1 model, reboxed. I was hugely disappointed to find Herpa took the cheaper Chinese model and put it in a Herpa box. The big screws holding the two fuselage halves together are clearly visable. The number on the tail (56 on AF1) is changed to 55. While I am not saying AF1 is a bad model for the money Herpa pulled a fast one by simply using the AF1 tooling. The stand is exactly as for the AF1 model and even the assembly instructions are the same style (half Chinese). On the Herpa Sukhoi box it says that flaps air-brake and canopy are movable, they are definitely NOT. Quality is light-years away from say Hobby Master. Very diasppointed.
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Old 10-05-2019, 12:00 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Just received the Herpa T-50. It is the Air Force 1 model, reboxed. I was hugely disappointed to find Herpa took the cheaper Chinese model and put it in a Herpa box. The big screws holding the two fuselage halves together are clearly visable. The number on the tail (56 on AF1) is changed to 55. While I am not saying AF1 is a bad model for the money Herpa pulled a fast one by simply using the AF1 tooling. The stand is exactly as for the AF1 model and even the assembly instructions are the same style (half Chinese). On the Herpa Sukhoi box it says that flaps air-brake and canopy are movable, they are definitely NOT. Quality is light-years away from say Hobby Master. Very diasppointed.
I preorder a 1/200 herpa T-50 back in April. Hopefully that will be coming now that you got your 1/72 herpa T-50?
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Old 10-05-2019, 11:52 AM   #33
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Hope you'll get it soon and quality will be OK. Take into account Herpa didn't have to develop tooling for the 1:72 version as it is straight from AF1.
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Old 10-05-2019, 10:47 PM   #34
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Hi Gilbert (is that correct??)

1. Welcome to the DAC forum!

2. Thanks for your greatly appreciated information which brings lot of light into this Herpa model. I fully understand your disappointment.
Btw, I don´t know which country you are living in and where have you purchased your T-50 from, but many countries have additional consumer rights for buying online with possibility to return your online order without any reason within the 14 days from the delivery date. Depends of course on relations to the vendor and return shipping costs. Even some ebay sellers offer this possibility.

3. Question: Typical "feature" of AF1 T-50 is that all AF1 ´White Sharks´ have grey color overspray around the horizontal / vertical tails and on the LERXes just behind 056 bort numbers - see photos below. Does your Herpa T-50 have also these oversprays or does it have sharp and clean edge lines in these places?



Last edited by Ladia; 10-05-2019 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 10-06-2019, 05:22 AM   #35
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Thanks for your kind reply Ladia. It's Gijsbertus, rather just "Bert" and from the Netherlands. Still considering to return it to the "brick and morter"store where I bought it. The "Herpa" model has identical overspray. Now 100% convinced it is from the AF1 production line, just with changed numbers. Already asked Herpa why they downgrade their reputation but no answer. This will kill the brand if continued (compare to Lancia just became rebadged Chryslers). Will try to post some pictures. Not sure I'll do this right.
[/IMG][IMG][/IMG]
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Old 10-06-2019, 01:00 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thanks for your kind reply Ladia. It's Gijsbertus, rather just "Bert" and from the Netherlands. Still considering to return it to the "brick and morter"store where I bought it. The "Herpa" model has identical overspray. Now 100% convinced it is from the AF1 production line, just with changed numbers. Already asked Herpa why they downgrade their reputation but no answer. This will kill the brand if continued (compare to Lancia just became rebadged Chryslers). Will try to post some pictures. Not sure I'll do this right.
[/IMG][IMG][/IMG]

Yes, sometimes Herpa has problems with communication. AF1 + Herpa sharing the exact same model is really a strange step - who would buy expensive Herpa model when exactly same model can purchase from AF1 for much cheaper? Because of the different box?

Btw Herpa is currently on the best way to downgrade their reputation with their 1/200 B-58 Hustler model - don´t understand whats going on now in Herpa.

Would be nice to see your T-50 photos, Bert. The easiest way is to attach them directly from your computer by Attachment button (with paperclip symbol) when replying on DAC forum, however the total number of magabytes posted is rather limited here, so if you plan to post more photos in the future, maybe you would want to consider some free Image Hosting Services such as Imgbb for example, where you can download your pictures even without any login (!) if you don´t want to Sign in. Just go to https://imgbb.com, sign in or not, upload your pictures and then copy and paste image URL to your reply.
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Old 10-06-2019, 03:55 PM   #37
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Hope these pictures of the T-50 Herpa model illustrate.

T-50-img_0775.jpg

T-50-img_0778.jpg

T-50-img_0777.jpg

T-50-img_0779.jpg
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Old 10-06-2019, 08:19 PM   #38
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Yeah, its not only the same mold but absolutely the same model: Herpa and AF1.


1. Many thanks to you. You actually saved me - and possibly to other guys too - lot of money for not buying Herpa .

2. Apart from bitter taste of disappointment from expensive Herpa price and oversprays and other issues I still think its a nice looking model with good amount of tampos - probably the best model from AF1 as yet.

3. Very nice pictures of yours btw., thanks for sharing!
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Old 10-07-2019, 06:51 AM   #39
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It looks like Herpa bought blanks from AF1 and did their own painting (nothing wrong with that). While I appreciate the difficultly of painting between the fuselage and tail planes, the AF1 model looks a bit better than the the Herpa version. I have the AF1 version and am willing to overlook the slight over-spay for the price. Don't know what the Herpa price is, you can make your own decision.
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:02 AM   #40
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Thankfully for us 1/200 collectors Herpa have announced a T50
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:27 PM   #41
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Default Re: T-50

Quote:
Originally Posted by dollfins View Post
It looks like Herpa bought blanks from AF1 and did their own painting (nothing wrong with that). While I appreciate the difficultly of painting between the fuselage and tail planes, the AF1 model looks a bit better than the the Herpa version. I have the AF1 version and am willing to overlook the slight over-spay for the price. Don't know what the Herpa price is, you can make your own decision.
Tbh, I see it differently:

"...Herpa bought blanks from AF1 and did their own painting"
Imho Herpa has ordered and bought completely finished models from AF1 - not just blanks. I believe that in AF1 factory was painted complete production batch consisting from deliveries for AF1, Herpa and Unistar brands. Note that all three brands are all identically overpsrayed on the tails and LERXes. In the end in the same factory were on painted models tampoed bort numbers - 055 for Herpa and 056 for AF1 and Unistar.

"AF1 model looks a bit better than the the Herpa version"
Being almost sure (somebody correct me) that all models were painted in the same factory I personally see no reason why AF1 model should look better than Herpa? Available photos show the´re exactly identical models (apart from bort numbers of course). But maybe you see something on the models to verify your saying?

"Don't know what the Herpa price is..."
Herpa´s RRP was mentioned twice in this thread. Its 109,95 Euro and 151,95 USD as per announcement posted above by BB. Quite costly. How much of a money you paid for yours AF1 incl. shipping?
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Old 10-07-2019, 05:58 PM   #42
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Default Re: T-50

Upon reflection, you are most likely correct about them coming from the same factory. Given the range of brand names it is hard to know who the original manufacturer is. Maybe an independent subcontractor is supplying everyone, or AF1 is rebranding for different markets.

The price I paid was US$72 + $23 shipping from Hong Kong.
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Old 10-07-2019, 05:59 PM   #43
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Default Re: T-50

OK, 99.99% sure it is as Ladia said. Believe Herpa got the completed, painted and tampo-printed models from the Chinese AF1/Unistar factory. Actually, I believe they also got the box from the same producer, as the box itself is not nearly as nice as other Herpa Military boxes. The assembly instructions are half English, half Chinese.
What I dislike as well is the explicit statement on the box that the model has movable parts. This is NOT true.
As I see it, I suspect Herpa made a deal with AF1/Unistar to produce the T-50 under the Herpa brand name incl. printing, packaging etc. If they had picked a high quality "partner" (as I suspect they have done in other cases), that's fine, but in this case they went to probably the cheapest source. Mind you, I have nothing against Chinese products or China. This commercial masterstroke probably originated in Dietenhofen, Germany.
Attached Thumbnails
T-50-photo-0.jpg   T-50-photo-1.jpg   T-50-photo-2.jpg  
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:46 PM   #44
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Default Re: T-50

I'm not sure what the discussion here is about. Herpa's entire 1/72 range is 2nd quality chinese crap roughly similar to Aviation72 except with even more egregious pricing. I see no reason to buy anything from them without very careful consideration: i have pre-ordered the alpha jet as the only non-terrible thing I have seen from the whole range. The best thing that can be said about herpa's 1/72 range is that they seem to also choose mostly forgettable or available from elsewhere subjects so they are not engaged in 'blocking actions' like AF1 did with some of its 1/72 heavies.

Last edited by FortunateSon; 10-08-2019 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 10-08-2019, 04:13 PM   #45
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Default Re: T-50

Hello FortunateSon. Responding to your "I'm not sure what the discussion here is about". I am sorry this T-50 discussion apparently became a little complicated. However, as you "see no reason to buy anything from Herpa", bottom line is, don't worry as it is not relevant for you. Happy Collecting.
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Old 11-15-2019, 01:06 PM   #46
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Default Re: T-50

Maybe a strange question but I don't find a clear answer: does Herpa provide a display stand for the T-50/Su-57 and if yes, is it the same as AF1 ? Thanks.
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Old 11-17-2019, 05:24 PM   #47
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Default Re: T-50

Yes, there is ametal stand with the Herpa model, but identical to the AF stand.
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