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Old 07-18-2017, 11:54 PM   #1
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Default HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

I am starting this new thread because some members got confuse with the prototype "902", when we were actually talking about the Sukhoi Su 35s RED 06 operating in Syria in the thread Hobby Master Sukhoi Su 35 HA5701 (prototype photos).

HM have announced that they will retool the mold after producing the "902" prototype to produce an operational Su-35S Flanker E, the Red 06, Russian Air Force, operated from Latakia, Syria in 2016 as HA5702.



It will have the wing tip ECM pods but will not equip with the standard weapon loads normally used in Syria, like the R-77, citing heavy tooling cost as the reasons.

So if you wanted those weapons you need to get from Scalemates and Code3 them.

Last edited by kltower; 07-19-2017 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesecake View Post
06 would have been nice: pics taken from thread :
http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...ml#post2386362






Not sure if someone posted it before:

White star under the canopy
"White star" under the canopy means destroying of an air target at the training exercise and has no relation to the Syria campaign.


Aerial bombs
Each "bomb" means 10 sorties provided as an air cover in Syria. Falling bombs symbols on Syrian SU-35s don´t mean missile or bomb strikes against ground targets as Su-35 fighters, along with Su-30SM, "only" accompanied Russian Su-24M and Su-34 bombers.


Interestingly and btw:
some RuAF planes (Su-34, Su-30SM, SU-24, Su-25...) had painted-over RuAF insignia (red stars) and registration numbers in Syria campaign.
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Thank you!!! It was becoming difficult to separate 5701 and 5702.
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Old 07-20-2017, 10:26 PM   #4
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

This is how Syria "06 red" RF-95816 Su-35S looks today .... serving as Bort 24 currently:




Note the silver bottle on nose landing gear doors as they switched from electric windshield heating system, which was used in Syria, back to alcohol de-frosting technology.






And here´s something confusing: another 24 "red" with different serial number (RF-95493) - two "Red 24s"?

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Old 07-20-2017, 11:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Thanks for the info. Really like to see how the model will turn out.
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Old 07-21-2017, 08:36 AM   #6
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

It seems there are several ways for the loadout to be represented?
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:09 AM   #7
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Would it be better to do Red 24 then ? Maybe get a more accurate standard loading but still retain the mission markings.
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:23 AM   #8
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Wycoff View Post
It seems there are several ways for the loadout to be represented?

Of course they are: attached / not attached for example ....


Anyway if you are referring to photos above, these shots were taken after Syria campaign ...

Most correct solution would be having included one set of rockets with red tips for gears down option and 2nd set of rockets in white for "in flight" representation. Or set of red attachable "French letters" over the tip .
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:39 AM   #9
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladia View Post
Of course they are: attached / not attached for example ....


Anyway if you are referring to photos above, these shots were taken after Syria campaign ...

Most correct solution would be having included one set of rockets with red tips for gears down option and 2nd set of rockets in white for "in flight" representation. Or set of red attachable "French letters" over the tip .
That would seem to me to be a good solution, but I know nothing about diecast construction-marketing.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:28 AM   #10
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by kltower View Post
This is what HM will and will not do:

My email to HM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kltower View Post
Dear William,

The DAC members are thrilled that you have listened to their request and that you are changing the aircraft from “Red 05” to "Red 06”.

Hope you will also incorporate the plane with
1) the wing tip L-265M10 ECM pods and
2) the AKU-170 launcher and the R-77 air-to-air missiles

If you have the time, please go over this DAC thread
http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...=1#post2431233
and this is William's reply

Quote:
Originally Posted by kltower View Post
Dear Sir,

We can only supply the ECM Pods.

About other weapons, I regret that we don't have the toolings.

William


Bad news. Won´t the R-77 missiles / AKU-170 launchers be possibly needed also for other future HM releases maybe to come? Of course primarily for next SU-35 releases, but R-77 missiles are also used on Su-27SKM, Su-30MKI, PLAAF Su-30, Mig-31, Mig-29, Mig-35, Su-34 „Fullback“and T-50.
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Old 07-21-2017, 10:47 AM   #11
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladia View Post
My email to HM

and this is William's reply





Bad news. Won´t the R-77 missiles / AKU-170 launchers be possibly needed also for other future HM releases maybe to come? Of course primarily for next SU-35 releases, but R-77 missiles are also used on Su-27SKM, Su-30MKI, PLAAF Su-30, Mig-31, Mig-29, Mig-35, Su-34 „Fullback“and T-50.
I know nothing about any of those loadouts. What does this picture tell you?

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Old 07-21-2017, 12:54 PM   #12
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Well, this picture tells me that among all that attractive loadout there are missing one of the most significant Air-to-Air R-77 missiles which were very typical for SU-35S Syria campaign:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpVEWipSx5k

This picture also tells me that on inner underwing hardpoints there are KAB1500 laser-guided bombs designed to hit stationary ground and surface targets, and under the engines there are indeed attractive looking Kh-31 air-to-surface missiles. But SU-35 weren´t used to attack groung targets in Syria - they only provided air cover to SU-24, SU-34 and SU-25 bombers. So Air-to-air ammunition is correct on HA5702, air-to-groung ammunition is incorrect.

Hoping that for some of the future releases Hobby Master will make R-77/AKU170 combo anyway. If so, it will be probably possible to retrofit them to Syria Flanker HA5702.

Last edited by Ladia; 07-21-2017 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 07-21-2017, 01:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

You sure know your stuff Ladia. Nice of you to share your expertise.
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Old 07-21-2017, 05:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

So basically only the 2 outer stations, wing tip and centreline missiles are kinda corrrct for missions over Syria ? I guess it could be displayed without the A2S missiles/bombs and hope HM either makes the R-77 for those stations or slightly more accurate A2A missiles to replace them in the future.
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Old 07-21-2017, 06:19 PM   #15
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Well, to be completely correct - on picture above are wrong also the wing tip positions. But as was already mentioned here - they will be replaced by ECM pods used in Syria. This change already confirmed Willam to kltower.
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Old 07-21-2017, 06:31 PM   #16
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Oh yea, sorry, forgot about that DAC sponsored improvement

Why don't they just add a full set of A2A missiles like Gaincorp and Witty used and add the A2S missiles as optional for those that just want the most bada$$ look ? That's what ppl might do in the future anyway.

Calibre (although their QC is appalling) offer a lot of options, it's about time HM do the same (not the appalling QC though), also if it means a more accurate representation but still caters for those that like shiny things
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Old 07-21-2017, 08:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Mistake found:
looking on above full-res picture of HA5702 prototype from below, under the Kh-31 missiles there are visible 10 engine louvres on each engine nacelle, represented in closed position. However real SU-35 has 11 slats (...both "902" HA6701 and Syria HA5702 Flanker).

Also, as I said, HM prototype has louvres represented in closed position. I would personally prefer them pronounced little bit more as on photos below - but maybe its just me.

I´m posting it here to find out how "big" mistake is the wrong number of luvre slats in your eyes, as well as your general opinion about HM engine louvres overall representation.


Real SU-35 with 11 slats per nacelle (...both "902" HA6701 and Syria HA5702 Flanker):


Opened / pronounced engine louvres on photos above and below



Here´s how the closed engine louvres look like in real:



Link link to hi-res of photo above.



Engine louvres by Unknown Chinese manu:


Engine louvres by Witty:


Engine louvres by AF1:




Btw. note interesting engine-louver actuation on each engine nacelle at playback time 6:22 of this excellent video:
https://youtu.be/SLsjwH70lto


Info I´ve found on the web about Flanker engine louvres:
The lower louvers only open when the aircraft is in an extreme AOA maneuveres ... The airflow is actually what forces louvres open ... when AOA returns back to normal, the louvers close ..... Flanker could not perform Pugachev´s Cobra without these louvres as airflow would stall the engine....
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:10 PM   #18
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

WOW Well spotted, well if it had 11 louvres, then HM should be doing 11, I don't know why anyone would do 10 unless it's 10 on other common variants and HM are just using standard parts.

I think the bigger problem is, those don't look like louvres those are more like random panel lines. Gez hard to believe unknown Chinese manu and Witty did a better job, HM need to fix this and they might as well fix both issues while there at it.
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:24 PM   #19
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

And yes I'd prefer open, once there closed on the real life version, you hardly notice them so on a model they appear as heavy panel lines. And they've always been open by other manus and I doubt anyone would request closed versions.
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Old 07-22-2017, 03:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Have you already informed William of this Ladia? Just curious.
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Old 07-22-2017, 06:21 PM   #21
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

The louvres are a good spot, and they don't just open at high alpha. I'd prefer open, but I'll settle for HM painting the inside of the intakes correctly - not just all blue.
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Old 07-24-2017, 08:48 PM   #22
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kangaroo View Post
Have you already informed William of this Ladia? Just curious.

Yes, email sent to William, will let you know.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Adour View Post
The louvres are a good spot, and they don't just open at high alpha. I'd prefer open, but I'll settle for HM painting the inside of the intakes correctly - not just all blue.
Maybe let´s wait on HA5702 pre-pro images how the intakes color will come out? Is it still time then to discuss possible changes with William?
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Old 07-25-2017, 12:30 AM   #23
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Well hopefully they just scrap this model all together. Since the count is wrong on the bottom of the plane, that no one sees when on display. Who would dare add this to their collection?
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Old 07-25-2017, 02:15 AM   #24
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn507 View Post
Well hopefully they just scrap this model all together. Since the count is wrong on the bottom of the plane, that no one sees when on display. Who would dare add this to their collection?
Brilliant analysis. As always Shawn, your Zen-like wisdom cuts straight to the heart of the matter.
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Old 07-25-2017, 06:16 PM   #25
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria


!!! This is why I´m so crazy about Flanker:

Su-35S on MAKS 2017 !!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggki8crdjWU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Kuoy7Z1ak


I´m speechless, I´m speechless, I´m speechless.....
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Old 07-25-2017, 06:42 PM   #26
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladia View Post

!!! This is why I´m so crazy about Flanker:

Su-35S on MAKS 2017 !!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggki8crdjWU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Kuoy7Z1ak


I´m speechless, I´m speechless, I´m speechless.....

I was at MAKS this year and could not believe my eyes! The Flanker would be perfect for Canada!
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:37 PM   #27
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladia View Post

!!! This is why I´m so crazy about Flanker:

Su-35S on MAKS 2017 !!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggki8crdjWU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Kuoy7Z1ak


I´m speechless, I´m speechless, I´m speechless.....
Was there an echo?
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:41 AM   #28
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

That's why for the Chinese-made models, the engine exhausts are movable – for thrust vectoring.

For HM, the model has changeable exhausts.
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Old 07-26-2017, 07:33 AM   #29
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

If someone has an ear to William, please note that the underside of the rear elevators is a bare metal in both the prototype and on the in field aircraft. He has it painted, The first half should be the bare metal look, same as the engine cowls.

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Old 07-26-2017, 08:51 AM   #30
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

First, HA5701 Su-35 prototype is not even in the painting stage.

Second, HA5702 don't even have a drawing yet.

Third, the actual prototype rear elevators are fully painted.


And finally, the Chinese made Su-35 '08' models do have part of the rear elevators as bare metal. So I am sure HM won't make the mistake.
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Old 07-26-2017, 11:36 AM   #31
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripoli View Post
He has it painted,
Huh? Have I missed a pre-pro picture?
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Old 07-26-2017, 01:21 PM   #32
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripoli View Post
If someone has an ear to William, please note that the underside of the rear elevators is a bare metal in both the prototype and on the in field aircraft. He has it painted, The first half should be the bare metal look, same as the engine cowls.

honest question: isn't that an su-34 instead of an su35?
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:05 PM   #33
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

I found an identical picture uploaded by a user saying it is an Su-34, but that isn't proof.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...eronautica.jpg

Last edited by Robert Wycoff; 07-26-2017 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 07-26-2017, 07:30 PM   #34
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcatter View Post
honest question: isn't that an su-34 instead of an su35?
Yup. Sure hope HM get round to these eventually. Yeah I know, lack of schemes, operators etc.
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:10 PM   #35
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Hey Jeff, your pic is an Su-34.
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:32 PM   #36
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Oops, sorry, theeeese better...





ps, look above at the SU-35 pictures for the point I was making. Anyone with an ear to William...
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Last edited by tripoli; 07-26-2017 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:17 PM   #37
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Be really interested to know the extent to which the combination of Su-35s and S-400s is inhibiting Western air operations over Syria, and if that or POTUS' relationship with Russia has greater bearing?

In any case, this is shaping up to be a great model and I can't wait!
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Old 07-26-2017, 11:40 PM   #38
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripoli View Post
Oops, sorry, theeeese better...





ps, look above at the SU-35 pictures for the point I was making. Anyone with an ear to William...
I made the point. And I apparently upset Sukhoi fans the world over for drawing attention it. And that several models already out there fail to show the bare metal on the horizontals.

Got to love editing!
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Old 07-26-2017, 11:57 PM   #39
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

HM's are not out yet, so maybe they can up the game on these.
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:23 AM   #40
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by kltower View Post
First, HA5701 Su-35 prototype is not even in the painting stage.

Second, HA5702 don't even have a drawing yet.

Third, the actual prototype rear elevators are fully painted.

And finally, the Chinese made Su-35 '08' models do have part of the
rear elevators as bare metal. So I am sure HM won't make the mistake.
errr... didn't you start this thread to avoid confusion between the proto and red 06?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripoli View Post
Oops, sorry, theeeese better...

ps, look above at the SU-35 pictures for the point I was making. Anyone with an ear to William...
yups, point noted. i did see those bare metal bits in the earlier red 06 photos. just wanting to make sure we are making reference to the actual aircraft rather than one like it...
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Old 07-27-2017, 04:49 AM   #41
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

So the words from William are:

Painting the intakes is no problem and they were planning to do it anyway.

Opening the louvres won't happen (unless there's a big clamour for it), since they think that they look better closed.

He's aware of the tailplanes. Not quite sure how this panic started since AF1 got it right on the purple Su-35 (well, AF1 "right", they just painted them black).
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Old 07-27-2017, 07:45 AM   #42
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Louvres !!! Louvres !!! Louvres !!! Louvres !!! Louvres !!!

Viva la open louvres !!!

Everyone bombard William about the open louvres, closed louvres is just cutting corners.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:04 AM   #43
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
William,

Can we have open LOUVRES for the Su-35?

Thanks

Send to: [email protected]

I have sent mine, have you?
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Old 07-27-2017, 12:13 PM   #44
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Just a note of interest.

China had signed a contract to buy 24 units of Su-35 from Russia in November 2015.

10 planes are scheduled to be delivered to China this year.

Looks like Indonesia will be the third operator of Su-35 as she plans to buy 11of the planes.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:30 PM   #45
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

The delivery of the first 4 Su-35S to China took place on December 25, 2016 (4 in 2016, 10 in 2017, 10 in 2018), wearing a Russian style blue/gray camouflage. The four planes were accompanied by a Russian Il-76MD jet transport





The second batch of Su-35 fighters in PLAAF livery, flew from Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Production Association (KnAAPO) to China on Wednesday 28 June.
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:31 PM   #46
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Hi guys, really nice to see how we all strive to have the best Syria Flanker possible - this model is surely worth every effort.

Here is William´s reply to my email about louvres:

Model is already in the very very late stage of development....
.... it is rather easy to add one more (slat)....
.....if people want more protruding it is "re-making" the tooling. Too complicated.


My understanding is that correcting number of slats would be possible to do, but opened louvres would be more difficult, "too complicated".

To tell the truth, I was rather hoping that on the occasion of correcting number of slats HM would make opened louvres. Frankly, 10 or 11 slats aren´t big problem, but opened louvres is what actually matters. Current HM´s closed position louvres are maybe least attractive from all diecast Flankers in the market - just MHO. Witty, JC Wings, AF1, and even pre-historic SU-27s louvres look better to my eyes as all are "opened". Shame that we didn´t noticed it sooner, anyway I´ll give one more try to HM. Maybe you could too... ?
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Old 07-27-2017, 03:30 PM   #47
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

The number of louvres doesn't bother me at all, but if it's an easy fix then why not.

So far as opting for them being closed, I look at it with the glass half full. Closed is correct shut down on the ground and for normal high speed flight. Whatever my personal preference, I can live with that. If HM went for open then everyone that wants to display it parked (not I, gear up flying please) would have an inaccurate model.
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:39 PM   #48
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Who among us knows and trusts someone to walk up to your model, grab it to flip over and judge the details not seen on the shelf?

This like the exhaust nozzle argument. Most I know put the backside of the model towards the back of the shelf where the exhaust is rarely seen. Yet still get twisted over them.

I don't know anyone who wants to display the perfect exhaust nozzle. But that's just me I guess.
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:46 PM   #49
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripoli View Post
Oops, sorry, theeeese better...


Anyone with an ear to William...

As hawkonevoodoo said:
..... I'm certain HM is open to reasonable suggestions so if you think there is something that really needs correcting I would suggest letting them know, not just posting here. [email protected]

Attractive product always sparks big interest on the market, therefore wouldn´t be surprising if more people than usually are contacting William with their questions / requests about HM Flanker.

The bare metal on the horizontals (actually its titanium), as well as burnt titanium on the engines (from both upper-, and undersides), are extremely tricky and difficult to paint. To make it correct usually requires many painting steps and so far no diecast manu got Flanker engines painjob right. Which is quite unfortunate as engines/horizontals representation make a lot from typical look of the Flanker.

I´m looking forward how will HM manage HA5702 paintjob on horizontals, and even more engines paintjob. On the engines I´m would be nice if HM could do similar effect as they successfully applied on their F-100, or nice paint in combination of three or four silver tones, ideally with additional tampos to replicate engine covers.





Here are some piccies of real beast, below are images of 1/72 diecast Flankers engine paintings together with examples of plastic kit modellers paintjobs:






Engine paintjobs by different diecast manufacturers:
(honestly, I´m expecting HM HA5702 engine painjob to be visibly better than current paintjobs).
Side note: so far HM confirmed that insides of exhaust nozzles will not be painted white.

AF1:


Altaya:



No-name chinese manu:


Witty/Herpa/JC Wings:


Terebo (but actually its AVIC):




Plastic kits, something to drool over, but some of these nice renditions aren´t miles away from HM F-100 engine paintjob IMHO):




And finally Hasegawa not-so-difficult engines paintjob, basically cobsisting of three different silver / gun metal colors:


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Old 07-27-2017, 06:13 PM   #50
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

HM are having trouble hanging on to experienced factory workers. They'll try. I hope they'll be better than other diecast renditions. However, I think that ideas of them being anything like the real thing or even pro-built plastic are just going to lead to disappointment.
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