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Old 07-27-2017, 06:32 PM   #51
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Have to agree this time. Would be nice, but not sure if they will want/be able to replicate the F-100 "airbrush" , anyway still hoping at least in something similar as Hasegawa SU-35/SU-33 kits above as these are basically just three plain colors. Give it one color less and you are basically on Altaya / AF1 level .... we shall see soon.
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Old 07-27-2017, 07:19 PM   #52
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

It's not about replicating a pro built kit, it's about getting a model that reflects the price point and something that's not basic.

Open or closed louvres is not a big deal but it would have been good if HM did some market research rather then guessing what they think will be popular, because so far they've been wrong everytime.

As for the amount of louvres, this is basic research failure.

I'm hoping that HM add enough details so that it doesn't look more basic then an AF1 Flanker.

And if they don't want to correct the amount of louvres, man I hope their colours and paint application are on point.
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Old 07-27-2017, 07:22 PM   #53
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Real men carve their own louvres with a sharpened toothbrush, or whatever..
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:29 PM   #54
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

hmm... to think that not too long ago we were told that there were no demand for russian planes, but suddenly almost all the manufacturers are jumping on the bandwagon. not that i'm complaining, but a really interesting development indeed, and the discussions with regard to the flankers (among others) shows just how popular these models really are.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:48 PM   #55
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

I think the emergence of more Russian/Chinese types is great, although most fall outside of my themes.

I suspect the vehemence with which people claimed there was no interest was driven by nationalistic insecurities TBQH..
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Old 07-28-2017, 12:50 AM   #56
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Well, I don't think HM generally does research, it copies kits - more's the pity. Hence the long line of turkeys over the years. Compared with the mess they made of, the F-106, Sea Harrier, F-35, F-15 etc, I think if the wrong number of louvres is the worst technical error on this - we've got away lightly by their standards. Anyway, sounds like it might get corrected.

As for painting reflecting the price point, well yeah, obviously. Equally though, HM have slipped in recent years. Just saying that I don't expect this release to look like it was painted in 2007 unfortunately. Wish, yes. Anticipate, no. As ever, I'll decide when I see pre-pros.

I really hope they do it right. To my eyes the Flanker family are the best looking jet fighters ever built - bar none. They haven't yet been done justice in diecast. For those that don't want Russian jets fine, don't buy them. Thankfully the time when their voluminous self-interested nonsense stopped HM releasing more than a token effort have ended. I'd far rather get a good Flanker than the 80th or whatever F-4 livery. But that's just me.

Last edited by Adour; 07-28-2017 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:54 AM   #57
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Yep no ones holding this hobby back anymore, excelsior !!
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Old 07-28-2017, 07:50 AM   #58
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

It looks like horizontals have titanium on both top and bottom, correct?
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Old 07-28-2017, 08:32 AM   #59
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

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It looks like horizontals have titanium on both top and bottom, correct?

Correct.



Btw. SU-35 has wet fins - inside the vertical stabs of SU-35 there are internal fuel tanks.
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Old 07-28-2017, 09:40 AM   #60
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

I'm watching a youtube of a Shuttle launch; the Shuttle didn't have wet fins!!
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Old 07-29-2017, 02:28 AM   #61
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

GOOD NEWS. Our opinions do count.

Just received this surprise email from HM.
Quote:
Just a little more information on the R-77, we are making the Su-27 tooling now.

We will add the R-77 on the Su-27 weapon tooling for share usage.

Su-27 will be released in Jan/Feb next year.

William
If HM do a decent job, JC Wings' SU-27 will be in trouble. And I am sure SU-27/J-11 will do well in the China market.
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Old 07-29-2017, 05:48 AM   #62
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Awesome news, Su-27 AND R-77s

You heard it first on DAC
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Old 07-29-2017, 06:39 AM   #63
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Yeah, they're doing it because no-one wants Russian jets.

Su-34, Su-15 and MiG-19 please.

PS. Now's the time for the "LOUVRES OPEN", club to make their point for the Su-27.

Last edited by Adour; 07-29-2017 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:56 AM   #64
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

I wish either Calibre or HM would make a model with canards. Watching the video of it in action is cool.
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:34 AM   #65
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

For the canard Su-27, a naval Su-33 will be cool.

So is a tandem 2-seater Su-27KUB.
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Old 07-29-2017, 01:33 PM   #66
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

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Originally Posted by kltower View Post
For the canard Su-27, a naval Su-33 will be cool.

So is a tandem 2-seater Su-27KUB.
I'd love to see the whole Flanker family made by HM. Hope they'll do the Su-27UB/30/30SM/33 too.
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Old 08-01-2017, 01:33 PM   #67
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

OK, this seems to have morphed into HA5702B, with decals for red 01 to 06. Or is tampo 06 now HA5702A?

Last edited by Adour; 08-01-2017 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Confused
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:57 PM   #68
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

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OK, this seems to have morphed into HA5702B, with decals for red 01 to 06. Or is tampo 06 now HA5702A?
I'm hoping there is a tampo version
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Old 08-01-2017, 06:50 PM   #69
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Nope it's a split run, all good

Last edited by Ukrainian_Falcons; 08-01-2017 at 06:54 PM. Reason: Correction
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Old 08-01-2017, 07:08 PM   #70
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

I´d also prefer tampo version. Don´t understand this move.
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Old 08-02-2017, 12:19 AM   #71
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

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I´d also prefer tampo version. Don´t understand this move.
it's a commercial call. instead of having a minimum production run for each individual bot risking low take up, they might as well do a generic production run for collectors to apply whichever bot they want instead.
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Old 08-02-2017, 01:56 AM   #72
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

It is not just the bot number. What about the bombs markings. The reason we opted for 06 is because it has more bomb markings than 05.
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Old 08-02-2017, 02:14 AM   #73
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

No way in hell am I applying decals that are going to peel off in 2 years time to a $200 model, I see HM are trying to keep everyone happy but all the decal releases so far have been bargain bin material, HM should know this by now.

Still trying to do quantity over quality I guess.
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Old 08-02-2017, 04:00 AM   #74
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

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No way in hell am I applying decals that are going to peel off in 2 years time to a $200 model, I see HM are trying to keep everyone happy but all the decal releases so far have been bargain bin material, HM should know this by now.

Still trying to do quantity over quality I guess.

it's a calculated risk. they have minimum production runs for each release... hence if the production run is 500/bort, there will be 3,000 flooding the market. theoretically, if there are 500 collectors interested in the different borts equally, that would mean 2,000 models are gonna be dumpity dump.

on the other hand, if they were to go down the decal way and produce just 500 generic models, and even if some of the 500 collectors decide to stay away, there will be less dumpity dump models in the market. pretty straight forward maths, this.
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Old 08-02-2017, 06:03 AM   #75
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Just got it confirmed by William, two separate releases. One with tampo, one with decal options.
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Old 08-02-2017, 06:37 AM   #76
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

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Just got it confirmed by William, two separate releases. One with tampo, one with decal options.
Thanks Mikael, I thought that might be the case.
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Old 08-02-2017, 07:23 AM   #77
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

For those who do not know what we are talking about, HM is also releasing HA5702B - with decal options.
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Old 08-02-2017, 01:47 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by kltower View Post
For those who do not know what we are talking about, HM is also releasing HA5702B - with decal options.
a new thread to avoid confusion, perhaps?

and are those mission marks down the centre column of the decal sheet?
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Old 08-09-2017, 04:36 PM   #79
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Finally, HA5702 artwork in on Hobbymastercollector website. And I´m quite surprised – I´d never say that there is as much as 17 mistakes.


1. No "radiation warning signs" tampos (red/yellow segmented disc) on the radome. Every plastic kit and every 1/72 diecast manu recognized importance of these "radiation warning marks“ for overall look of the Flanker and have them added - with exception of AF1. Hopefully HM will not want to stay on AF1 level with HM Flanker…

2. Markedly wrong shape of MAWS hump behind the canopy.

3. Not sure also about the shape of the MAWS sensor in front of the canopy. From the side view this hump should basically form a triangle, but on HM artwork it looks like its drop-shaped.

4. Still no lightning stripes on the radome, not even printed ones. How much nicer would be HM SU-35 Flankers with correct and visible lightning stripes…

5.Missing white trapezoid shark fin antenna under the nose. Funny enough - and also sadly enough: this antenna was present on the original HM CAD Su-35 rendering. This antenna is exactly same size and shape as dorsal antenna behind the canopy. Antenna behind the canopy is present on HM model , no reason for missing shark-fin antenna under the nose. Also, this antenna is in white color and therefore is much more prominent than if would be black or dark grey.

6. Not even the RUAF insignias are correct – the Red Stars have missing blue borders.

7. White bordering on 06 numbers is too subtle. White borders around red numbers should be thicker.

8. “06”digits under the canopy are too wide apart – both digits should be spaced a little bit more close to each other.

9. Wrong camo on the tail - blue color field should go as low as to the centre of the triangle panel on SU-35 from Syria. It seems there are actually two types of blue color fields on the left tails – the one on HM artwork is copied from Hasegawa paint scheme, but Syria SU-35 had the blue color field a bit lower, going + through the centre of the triangle-shaped panel.

10. And in this moment I noticed another error of HM prototype – on the tail there is completely missing upper rudder panel line. Now it looks like the rudders go all the way as far as to the grey upper panel and that tail antennas are moving together with rudders. Its because under the lowest antenna there is completely omitted horizontal upper rudder panel line. Current inclined rudder panel line should go only up to the lowest tail antenna, while now it goes through the whole tail length all the way up to the upper grey panel.

11. Missing grey leading edge on the tail fins. Probably there will be voices that this line is too tiny and therefore easy to forget. Maybe. But…:
12. …also the LERX and wings leading edges should be in grey. And these grey lines are visible for sure. These grey lines should be added too.

13. The biggest and highest dorsal antenna shouldn´t be blue but yellow.

14. Division line between upper and lower surface colors in the nose area is slanted down on Syria SU-35S, but is only horizontal on HM artwork. Check the angle between black rectangle and division line. This is wrong. Visually this makes big difference to Flanker´s so typical nose-dive stance.

15. Front section of air intake in the left tail fin root should be in grey color.

16. Actually the BBC ROSSII lettering should have white border too. However I´m not able to say if this would be visible on final model or not, seems that the white border is really tiny.

17. There should be bold yellow arrow on the degree scale in front of the rear horizontal stabilizers. Currently there are some stencils on HA5702 artwork, but instead of them there should be just a simple bold yellow arrows, on both sides.

(18.) ... and of course – louvres are closed


Didn´t expect so many mistakes. …

P.S.
There are still some other minor touch ups such as rear section of horizontal “triangles” on the rear stinger that should be grey, white star / bomb markings are placed rather bit too forward (nothing important, I´d say), no tampo printed side sensors in the nose area, no red cross tampoed under the rudders (these red crosses are also on wing flaps and are similarly or even more noticeable than the yellow hooks), but all these are actually not mistakes and maybe too tiny details for most collectors.
Also not sure if the front MAWS sensor will have tampoed “eye” (lenses). Of course, asking to tampo-print lenses on all MAWS sensors of HM Flanker would be asking too much from HM, but the nose MAWS sensor should really have tampo printed lenses as this “eye” are quite prominent on every SU-35.

Here´s overview of the mistakes:




And here is the evidence:


Mistakes 1, 4, 5, 6, 11, 12, 13, 14 (note and compare the angle between color division line and black rectangle on the photo and on HM artwork), mistakes 16, 17.



Mistake 6:
RuAf insignia
Correct RuAf insignia on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia..._of_Russia.svg


Mistakes 6, 10, 16, 17. Note also the red cross under the rudder. These crosses are also on flaps and in the centres of two red dashed squares on the upper fuselage - Flanker typical signs.



Mistakes 7, 8



Mistakes 2, 3, 9, 10, 12, 17



Mistakes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 12, 14


Mistake 5 - original HM CAD Su-35 rendering:

Last edited by Ladia; 08-09-2017 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:11 PM   #80
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Nuts, I can't believe a company that panels it's models like brickyards is missing a panel line. The bottom rudder line isn't great either, I can only see the step.
Missing RADHAZ signs and incorrect red stars are pretty significant too.

Looks like William's going to be reading another long email.

And before we hear "it doesn't matter" from the usual suspects, asking ain't going to make it worse.
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:41 PM   #81
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

The location of the blue stripe on the tail seems to match at least one photo.
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Old 08-09-2017, 06:54 PM   #82
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

(Cancels PO)
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Old 08-09-2017, 07:56 PM   #83
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Wycoff View Post
The location of the blue stripe on the tail seems to match at least one photo.
I think he means that odd little stripe underneath the large pattern on the HM drawing, it kinda looks like HM didn't photo shop the pattern fully so it looks like 2 seperate patterns.
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Old 08-09-2017, 08:35 PM   #84
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I think he means that odd little stripe underneath the large pattern on the HM drawing, it kinda looks like HM didn't photo shop the pattern fully so it looks like 2 seperate patterns.

The odd little blue stripe on the tail is my photoshop effort to outline where should the bottom of the blue stripe go. I wanted to leave also part of original HM pattern for easier comparison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Wycoff View Post
The location of the blue stripe on the tail seems to match at least one photo.
Actually not, Robert . If you google hi-res photos of the tail you´ll see that the black spot in the rudder panel line on above photo (where the bottom of the blue stripe crosses rudder panel line) is actually at the place where is located the triangle panel on HM model. This means that the bottom of the blue stripe should cut directly through this triangular panel, but on HM artwork is the blue stripe lower line much higher above the triangle panel.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:38 PM   #85
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Nuts, I can't believe a company that panels it's models like brickyards is missing a panel line. The bottom rudder line isn't great either, I can only see the step.
Missing RADHAZ signs and incorrect red stars are pretty significant too.

Looks like William's going to be reading another long email.

And before we hear "it doesn't matter" from the usual suspects, asking ain't going to make it worse.
hehehe... or that it's not visible from two feet away
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Old 08-09-2017, 10:59 PM   #86
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Should be William informed about all these mistakes or are there some not so significant ones?
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:05 AM   #87
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

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Should be William informed about all these mistakes or are there some not so significant ones?
I think these are all valid points, the radiation symbol and red star are the most significant, the others would be good to incorporate and some won't hurt to ask, if only to keep HM informed that yes, there are collectors that appriecate accuracy and not quantity.

BTW thanks for all your efforts with this Flanker thus far, I believe this will be the most comprehensive level of improvements on any release ever.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:08 AM   #88
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I think these are all valid points, the radiation symbol and red star are the most significant, the others would be good to incorporate and some won't hurt to ask, if only to keep HM informed that yes, there are collectors that appriecate accuracy and not quantity.

BTW thanks for all your efforts with this Flanker thus far, I believe this will be the most comprehensive level of improvements on any release ever.
didn't you reserve that title for some particular air force's models?
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:15 AM   #89
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didn't you reserve that title for some particular air force's models?
JASDF ? Because those were pretty detailed models.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:16 AM   #90
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

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didn't you reserve that title for some particular air force's models?
If you mean the salt shakers on the Canadian Forces Sabre I would counter you can't polish a turd, so that scarcely counts.
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:20 AM   #91
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JASDF ? Because those were pretty detailed models.
"most comprehensive level of improvements" monsieur, not "most detailed model"
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Old 08-10-2017, 12:24 AM   #92
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If you mean the salt shakers on the Canadian Forces Sabre I would counter you can't polish a turd, so that scarcely counts.
really???

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Old 08-10-2017, 12:24 AM   #93
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Interestingly, HM listed the following armaments carried by Su-35:

Missiles
Vympel R-73E/M
Vympel R-74M
Vympel R-27R/ER/T/ET
Vympel R-77
Vympel R-37M
Kh-29T/L
Kh-31P/A
Kh-59ME
Bombs
KAB-500L Laser-guided Bomb
KAB-1500L Laser-guided Bomb
FAB-250 250-kg (550 lb) Unguided Bombs
FAB-500 500-kg (1,100 lb) Unguided Bomb

Just wondered whether the missiles and bombs will be featured in the "06".
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:07 AM   #94
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

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Interestingly, HM listed the following armaments carried by Su-35:

Missiles
Vympel R-73E/M
Vympel R-74M
Vympel R-27R/ER/T/ET
Vympel R-77
Vympel R-37M
Kh-29T/L
Kh-31P/A
Kh-59ME
Bombs
KAB-500L Laser-guided Bomb
KAB-1500L Laser-guided Bomb
FAB-250 250-kg (550 lb) Unguided Bombs
FAB-500 500-kg (1,100 lb) Unguided Bomb

Just wondered whether the missiles and bombs will be featured in the "06".
Armament
Guns – 1 × 30 mm GSh-301 Internal Cannon With 150 Rounds
Hardpoints – 12
2 x Wingtip Rails
10 x Wing and Fuselage Points
The 12 Points Can Carry - Maximum of 8,000 kg (17,630 lb) Of Ordnance In Varying
Combinations Of
Rockets
S-25L Laser-guided Rocket
S-25 Unguided Rocket
B-8 Unguided S-8 Rocket Pods
B-13 Unguided S-13 Rocket Pods

Avionics
Irbis-E Passive Phased Array Radar
OLS-35 Infra-red Search and Track System
L265 Khibiny-M Electronic Warfare Pod

Last edited by Robert Wycoff; 08-10-2017 at 01:10 AM.
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:21 AM   #95
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

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I didn't know you collected Canadian Forces TC!
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Old 08-10-2017, 02:49 AM   #96
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

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I didn't know you collected Canadian Forces TC!

i also collect raaf stuff...
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:15 AM   #97
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

Waw, Ladia is a real Flanker expert ! I love the Flanker very much but I have to admit, such detailed investigation I couldn't do.

Collecting diecast airplanes is a nice hobby and, of course, for the money we are paying, we expect nice and correct airplanes. But on the other hand we have to consider the price. If HM (or some other manufacturer) will make a 100% correct model, we will surely pay much more.
So, for me, a model doesn't have to be 100% correct, 95% will do
I hate much more the sometimes failing QC: glue overflow, messy paintwork, scratches on the canopy, wings or tails connected in a "strange way/angle" to the fuselage, ...

I will surely buy the HM Flanker. And maybe there will be improvements in the later releases.
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1. Ultimate Soldier Me-262B (Nightfighter, B Version !) scale 1:18.
2. Elite Force F-18 Hornet (Golden Dragon) scale 1:18.
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:53 AM   #98
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

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Originally Posted by Ladia View Post
Should be William informed about all these mistakes or are there some not so significant ones?
I think you should let William know the lot but stress: red stars, radiation hazard symbols, upper and lower rudder panel lines, and the nose camo demarcation (they have it following the line of the join between the upper and lower halfs of the model, convenient but obviously wrong). Maybe two separate emails.

Please let us know his reply and whether you want more of us to write in.

Last edited by Adour; 08-10-2017 at 03:57 AM. Reason: Add last line.
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:11 AM   #99
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

I had ask William to check on Ladia comments.

Right now it's only a drawing. Let's wait for the pre-pro.
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:17 AM   #100
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Default Re: HA5702 Sukhoi Su 35S RED 06 Syria

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Originally Posted by tomcatter View Post
"most comprehensive level of improvements" monsieur, not "most detailed model"
Yeah I'm talking about models ppl actually want to collect, not rubbish for someone's personal stash.
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