Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF - DA.C
 

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Old 06-22-2017, 08:06 AM   #1
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Default Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

October 2017 Release

HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF


Similar model


No surprise the first release was going to be bare metal but plenty of time for all those exotic schemes later
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Old 06-22-2017, 08:41 AM   #2
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Nice solid VPAF release, very pleased by this.

We're getting VN War (and RAAF) regularly now, which makes me more than happy
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Old 06-22-2017, 10:42 AM   #3
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

It's a good strategy as both those themes are popular.

Wasn't a fan of the next plain BM VNAF Fishbed but it would be wrong to get the BM Fresco and not have another BM buddy lol
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Old 06-22-2017, 11:15 AM   #4
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Won't it look better in the 1967 scheme.

According to WINGS PALETTE:
This MiG-17 was used by Ngo Due Mai to shoot down Col N.C.Gaddis and 1 Lt J.M. Jefferson's F-4C Phantom II (63-7614, of the 390th TFS/366th TFW) over Hoa Lac on 12 May 1967. Marked with nine victory stars (denoting the number of kills scored by pilots flying '201V perhaps?), the jet is currents displayed at the VPAF Museum in Hanoi.
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Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF-mig-17_2011.jpg  
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Old 06-22-2017, 01:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Yeah it's better to stick with the original camo. There are many other choices even if they want to make one in silver/bare metal.

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Old 06-22-2017, 01:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

I think the plane original colour is silver when Ngo Duc Mai made his first kill – F-8E of commander Bellinger on 14 June 1966. And the plane was subsequently painted in green camo in 1967.

Interestingly, there are two 2011 in Hanoi museums. The one in green camo may be the original plane whereas the other in silver is a replica.
Attached Thumbnails
Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF-mig-17f_1966.jpg   Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF-mig-17-n-2011.jpg  
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Old 06-24-2017, 12:06 AM   #7
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

I've asked William about the paint and here is our conversation.

Quote:
Hello

Glad to hear that you will release the MiG-17. But one thing make me wonder is that the picture on hobbymastercollector.com show the MiG-17 No.2011 in silver paint. Since the real aircraft is displayed with green background camo (pictures attached), is there any error?

Anyway, I hope you'll make the 2011 in camo. If the plan is still for a silver MiG-17, there are also other choices, such as the MiG-17F No.2047 with 7 kills (which I strongly recommend since it was also the MiG had bombed USS Oklahoma City).

Hope to see more coming.

Regards.
Quote:
Dear Sir,

Thank you.

First of all, we normally won't make change of plan unless there is a mistake. It may have chances to create misundertstanding and miscommunication for retailer, dealers, etc.

So all I can check is whether 2011 scheme is correct in all silver color at the moment.

William
Quote:
Dear Sir,

I have examined the information again.

There are different information provided on this 2011.

Please see attached and the link :
WINGS PALETTE - MiG MiG-17/J-5/Lim-5/Lim-6 Fresco - North Vietnam

I tend to believe 2011 in camouflage pattern will be most welcome.

The link also mentioned that all silver 2011 in the museum is not the real 2011. So the real all silver 2011 is gone?

At the same time, there is a camouflage 2011 as you show. Information rather confusing but I guess the camouflage one should be more weclome.

We may just switch to make the 2047 at the moment and make the 2011 camouflage later.

William
Quote:
Hello

Maybe one reason of the confusion is that after years of outdoor display the camo paint on upper fuselage is almost gone, thus make the aircraft a silver looking.

The other 2011 in all silver seems to have a poorly paint and without roundel, so my guess it's just a cheap replica.

I think you've made the right choice. Both 2011 and 2047 are great.

Regards.
Quote:
Dear Sir,

We decided to make the camouflage one as attached.

William
Not sure that means they will make the camo 2011 first or a silver one first and camo 2011 later. But both cases are good to me.

However, after seeing photos of the displayed 2011, I think the wing underside also have the camo paint. Maybe I have to visit the museum for a confirm.
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Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF-unnamed.jpg  

Last edited by Flankers; 06-24-2017 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 06-24-2017, 03:07 AM   #8
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

It seems as though there are many displays of 2011 (these all look like different locations)





3 out of 4 have or had camo and most without kill marks. Kill marks are great eye candy but if they were never applied to that particular AC, I don't want them on their no matter how cool it looks, it just becomes pure fantasy for the sake of selling toys at that point.

But I can see where William is coming from, if a dealer has asked for that original scheme, they may not want or care about changing it to be more accurate, they maybe even want fictious markings to boost sales of the product, coz let's face it, how many dealers GAF about accuracy or selling defective models for that matter ? Czech and Japanese dealers are all I can think of.

I'm with Flankers, even if 2011 was in bare metal, it's much nicer in camo and there are other ace or non ace BM Frescos HM could milk in the future.
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Old 06-24-2017, 04:12 AM   #9
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukrainian_Falcons View Post
It seems as though there are many displays of 2011 (these all look like different locations)

https://i.imgur.com/CbsFudX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/EoZZllW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/j6H6QAT.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/g579BTN.jpg
3 out of 4 have or had camo and most without kill marks. Kill marks are great eye candy but if they were never applied to that particular AC, I don't want them on their no matter how cool it looks, it just becomes pure fantasy for the sake of selling toys at that point.

But I can see where William is coming from, if a dealer has asked for that original scheme, they may not want or care about changing it to be more accurate, they maybe even want fictious markings to boost sales of the product, coz let's face it, how many dealers GAF about accuracy or selling defective models for that matter ? Czech and Japanese dealers are all I can think of.

I'm with Flankers, even if 2011 was in bare metal, it's much nicer in camo and there are other ace or non ace BM Frescos HM could milk in the future.
The first 3 are the same aircraft in different times. The VPAF museum was rebuilt/rearranged several times in the past, that's why they looks like in different places.

About the kill mark, I think they are painted only on the port side.
Attached Thumbnails
Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF-untitled.jpg   Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF-30841482.jpg  
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Old 06-24-2017, 07:24 AM   #10
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Ah ok, that can make it confusing to figure out which version is correct.

If the kills were in the AC while operational, I'm all for it but I know HM sometimes like to mirror the markings just because it makes the model more appealing at the cost of accuracy.
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Old 06-28-2017, 11:26 AM   #11
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

I think HM have revised the colour scheme of this aircraft to the green camo.

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Old 06-28-2017, 01:02 PM   #12
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Are they doing to split-run or was the all metal/silver version wrong?
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Old 06-28-2017, 01:09 PM   #13
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

This is William's reply to Flankers. So HM is doing the camo and not the silver.

Quote:
Dear Sir,

We decided to make the camouflage one as attached.

William
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Old 06-28-2017, 09:49 PM   #14
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

This is great news, I just hope it comes out nicely.

Very excited to see this release
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Old 06-29-2017, 02:34 AM   #15
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Judging by that thread rating, it looks like a small handful of forum lurkers have it in for you, UF.
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Old 06-29-2017, 05:23 AM   #16
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Good to see yet another improvement made by a DAC member
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Old 06-29-2017, 06:59 AM   #17
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

this is a must buy for me now, as i think it is for most people with a vietnam war theme.
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Old 07-01-2017, 09:05 AM   #18
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

What it might turn out like


I do question the wing top roundals though, were they ever on NVAF Fresco's ?
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Old 07-01-2017, 09:33 AM   #19
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

The roundel is not on HM drawing.
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Old 07-01-2017, 11:31 AM   #20
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Quote:
Originally Posted by kltower View Post
The roundel is not on HM drawing.
I know they don't have it on there but that's not because they won't add it to the model, they just don't add that level of detail to the drawing (would be barely visable at that angle anyway)

For example the Iraqi Foxbat will have roundals in the wings but the drawing doesn't.

I'm just not seeing the roundal on the Fresco in any war time or even post war RL photos, hence why I ask.
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Old 07-01-2017, 11:53 AM   #21
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Not sure how accurate these decals are but they don't have roundals on top of the wings. Yet have them for BM aircraft


But then I find this pic (yeah not great I know) with no roundal, even at that angle, they (if they ever did) applied them on the very end of the wings.



I'm just seeing alot of kit builds and post war restorations sporting them...
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Old 07-01-2017, 12:06 PM   #22
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Interesting to note the differences between the MiG-17 and J-5 (tail and canopy), wonder if HM will allow for that or go generic like with their scooters.
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Old 07-01-2017, 01:34 PM   #23
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

By viewing the pic below....the "actual" plane at the Hanoi Museum.....you can see the faded remanents that it had green and spotted camo. You can see the wings with no roundels.....one could argue that wing surfaces are more affected to uv rays causing a faster rate of fading than the roundel applied to the side of the fuselage which remains there albeit faded over time "assuming" it's the original camo paint scheme.

IMO...I will dismiss the UV argument and say that if the wings had roundels.....they would show in the same faded condition as the side roundel on the fuselage. Ergo No roundels on the wings is how i see it.

BB





Interesting tidbit.....


Last edited by Blues Boy; 07-01-2017 at 02:13 PM. Reason: Add close up
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Old 07-01-2017, 04:12 PM   #24
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Same 2011 at same Vietnamese Air Force Museum....

I see spotted camo underneath wings...."assuming" actual plane and original camo paint scheme....

BB



No telling how far back is the camo underneath from the leading edge to the flaps etc...or if full coverage underneath along the wing from fuselage to the wing tips....


Last edited by Blues Boy; 07-01-2017 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 07-02-2017, 02:02 AM   #25
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues Boy View Post
No telling how far back is the camo underneath from the leading edge to the flaps etc...or if full coverage underneath along the wing from fuselage to the wing tips....
I went to the museum a few days ago and here are the answers. And I agree with you about the wing roundels.

p/s: already sent the pictures to HM.
Attached Thumbnails
Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF-dsc_0006.jpg   Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF-dsc_0005.jpg   Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF-dsc_0007.jpg   Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF-dsc_0011.jpg  
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Old 07-02-2017, 02:27 AM   #26
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flankers View Post
I went to the museum a few days ago and here are the answers. And I agree with you about the wing roundels.

p/s: already sent the pictures to HM.
That's Great! The more the model is correct from evidence the better collectors will feel to buy it.

By the way....did you notice if 2011 had at one time...the nine victory stars mentioned in the excerpt from a book page shown below in one of my previous posts below "Interesting tidbit". Thx.

BB

Last edited by Blues Boy; 07-02-2017 at 02:29 AM.
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Old 07-13-2017, 07:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Prototype photos are on Hawkone´s website:

Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series (Jet Powered) early production photos of MiG-17




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Old 07-14-2017, 07:10 AM   #28
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Looks very nice - along the lines of the F86 and Mig15. This could quietly be a model of the year candidate (though probably not a winner) if they do an outstanding job on the finish.
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:50 AM   #29
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Overall it appears good. I believe it will be nice model, although looks to me rather gappy. Maybe only because of being a prototype.

Anyway I wonder why HM so often uses upper and lower halves split construction in the front, leading to more or less visible, but always present division line in nose area. Does anybody know the reason?
Witty (and even AF1) managed to make one-piece front-end construction in to keep this prominent part of the model tidy and clean....
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:19 AM   #30
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

This is something I don't understand in 2017, models like the Fagot, Fresco and Fishbed are basically cigar shaped bodies, it shouldn't be that hard, airliner manus have been doing it for years now.

The Fresco does look abit too gappy but I'm sure once paint is applied, it could be less, still I'd like to see that wing section gap tighter.

Another standard issue with the Fagot was the nose ring, rarely was it ever flush and at times, the antenna seemed to stuck in any direction they felt like.
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:52 AM   #31
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

I really like seeing the prototype photos of this HM MiG-17, i now hope to see the Iraqi or any Arab MiG-17 soon..
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:08 AM   #32
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Ladia....could you do some of your great measurement analysis

In the underside pic...it appears the bomb/fuel tank? on the right wing (left side as you look at it) angles out to the left and further forward then the other side.

Perhaps some perpendicular lines drawn and degrees focusing on both bombs together and then the individual bombs.

Then an analysis of the bombs on the top view of the plane.

Thanx in advance...

BB



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Old 07-14-2017, 11:57 AM   #33
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

If I had to guess. I would say the tank isn't seated properly or glued to the pylon incorrectly.
It is just a early still.
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Old 07-31-2017, 11:39 PM   #34
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues Boy View Post
Ladia....could you do some of your great measurement analysis

In the underside pic...it appears the bomb/fuel tank? on the right wing (left side as you look at it) angles out to the left and further forward then the other side.

Perhaps some perpendicular lines drawn and degrees focusing on both bombs together and then the individual bombs.

Then an analysis of the bombs on the top view of the plane.

Thanx in advance...

BB



Good point, BB. Here you are. You can see that actually both fuel tanks are drifting to the left. The fuel tank you mentioned - on the right wing (left side as you look at it) - angles out to the left little bit more than on the other one, but both tanks seem to be shifting to the left on the photo.

As for the right wing fuel tank sitting bit forward then on the other side - Photoshop showed me that its actually optical illusion as the model itself isn´t ideally centered on the photo. So if you draw a line going through longitudinal axis and then you make another line going 90 degrees to first - result you can see on photo: both fuel tanks sit +/- flush.



Can be that its also some kind of optical distortion, can also be that for the prototype photoshooting the fuel tanks were attached to the model only temporarily, not on the pins... Anyway maybe its still worth of your questioning to William about shifting to the left. I wouldn´t say its just an early still - better ask before than late, Hobby Master is unbelievably quick in developing new models.
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:20 AM   #35
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Could just be a poorly assembled tank to pylon ?
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Old 08-01-2017, 09:15 PM   #36
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

BB

(FYI i did include the whole picture and the text above and below it...William just cropped off the lower section of picture in his reply)

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Old 09-28-2017, 10:46 PM   #37
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Pre-prods on HMC, looking good IMO:









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Old 10-01-2017, 04:48 PM   #38
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Hi Tker - unless i'm mistaken here, please don't be afraid to post full-sized preview images OR makes sure that the ones you do post are clickablle to show the large size.

anyway, i think (from the HMC website) it looks a little crude, but I think that's mostly a factor of its small size vs the very blown up photos. I suspect that in person it will look just fine.
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Old 10-02-2017, 01:00 AM   #39
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA5901 MIG-17F, Red 2011, 923 IAP "Yen The" NVAF

Hi, I linked the full page images as normal: not sure what happened this time, perhaps some quirk of links copied via mobile?

I agree though this should actually look pretty good in the metal - think about the Superbugs and how awful they looked in pre-prods compared to the actual release in your hand!
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