Re: Hobby Master Sukhoi Su 35 HA5701 (prototype photos)
Breaking news, JFYI:
I was emailing William about several details on new HM SU-35 such as:
- Missing white trapezoid antenna under the nose on Syria SU-35
I don´t see this antenna on HM artwork:
- Lightning stripes on radome:
... perhaps rised stripes as on model above, or tampo-printed ones. Would apply to both HA5702 and HA5701.
- Shortened rear part of canopyhump on Syria Flanker (cannot see it on HM artwork).
On HM "05" artwork I see bulging MAWS sensor behind the canopy, but i don´t see cut-off rear part of canopy hump. This shortened canopy hump is applied on production SU-35S units as there is air outlet (or inlet) inside the "cut"; 902 prototype used stepless hump design and no rear MAWS sensor. (Also note the white trapezoid antenna under the nose).
- Silver electric heating stripes in the front windscreen: ("902" and Syria SU-35 used electric heating/de-frosting of front windshield). Would apply to both HA5702 and HA5701
- Pilot helmets
typical for ZSH-7 helmet which are using on SU-35 (and Su-27, SU-25, SU-30SM, Mig-29, Mig-31... etc.) are five visible holes on its top. I was asking William if there is any possibility to tampo-print these holes. (See also picture above). Would apply to both HA5702 and HA5701 ... (and more in the future)
(ZSH-7 helmet as performed by Calibre Wings on their SU-24 pilot figure):
William replied to this email: ...most of these details indeed cannot be replicated on the size of a 1/72 model. They are just too tiny and small and delicate.
Some of the details may really be too tiny for mass production in 1/72 scale, anyway since William didn´t say "... all of these details", but "....most of these details", I hope that at least some of the details might finally be on HA5702 (HA5701). I pray.
Also, I wonder if HA5702 pilots will have tan flight suit color...
Re: Hobby Master Sukhoi Su 35 HA5701 (prototype photos)
We're all very keen to see an excellent model, and I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but perhaps people need to be a bit more judicious in their requests.
Side numbers, mission marks, radome diverter strips, ordnance, aerials - tick.
Windshield demist elements? Hang on, how would they implement that and how would it look? I'll bet the answers are "clumsily" and "like sh1t" respectively. Be careful what you ask for, you might just trash an otherwise acceptable model. Same goes for helmet vents, really? This is mass produced diecast not a custom plastic kit.
Re: Hobby Master Sukhoi Su 35 HA5701 (prototype photos)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adour
We're all very keen to see an excellent model, and I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but perhaps people need to be a bit more judicious in their requests.
Side numbers, mission marks, radome diverter strips, ordnance, aerials - tick.
Windshield demist elements? Hang on, how would they implement that and how would it look? I'll bet the answers are "clumsily" and "like sh1t" respectively. Be careful what you ask for, you might just trash an otherwise acceptable model. Same goes for helmet vents, really? This is mass produced diecast not a custom plastic kit.
IMHO, of course.
Have to agree, some of these tiny improvements aren't possible nor would we want an unskilled labour force dealing with even more tiny details.
Re: Hobby Master Sukhoi Su 35 HA5701 (prototype photos)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcatter
who moved the ladder?
by the way, good shot, monsieur fs!
thanks. it was excellent to have the UkrAF at RIAT along with a very strong showing of US Airpower might including all 3 heavy bombers (the B2 in flyby) and essentially every manned combat aircraft in the USAF inventory except for the A-10 and F-35.
Re: Hobby Master Sukhoi Su 35 HA5701 (prototype photos)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Wycoff
Honest answer. I wonder what ordinance they are going to include? Will they be correct for the type?
You can see ordnance on this prototype photo:
Yes, it is correct for Su-35, it was displayed with it at many shows. It is not the most correct loadout for the Syrian mission, true, but entirely possible.
Re: Hobby Master Sukhoi Su 35 HA5701 (prototype photos)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adour
We're all very keen to see an excellent model, and I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but perhaps people need to be a bit more judicious in their requests.
Side numbers, mission marks, radome diverter strips, ordnance, aerials - tick.
Windshield demist elements? Hang on, how would they implement that and how would it look? I'll bet the answers are "clumsily" and "like sh1t" respectively. Be careful what you ask for, you might just trash an otherwise acceptable model. Same goes for helmet vents, really? This is mass produced diecast not a custom plastic kit.
IMHO, of course.
“…people need to be a bit more judicious in their requests …… be careful what you ask for“… thanks for teaching others. But don´t be worried, I´m careful enough, Mom . Fyi it wasn´t request at all, rather a humble question. I asked question and William replied. That easy it was. Until you don´t ask, you never know how far HM wants to go with this important model. But again, thanks for takin´ care of me, Adour...
Windshield electric heating stripes: yes, even when visible from most angles these stripes may be insignificant detail compared to others. How they would look like? Of course I can´t tell - but nor can you. Does this look "clumsily" or "like sh1t" to you? To me not:
Helmet vents:
Perhaps we have different level of details perception. ZSH-7 series helmets with their large holes along the top to cut down wind resistance during ejection are simply distinctive and typical for almost all Russian pilots. And not only for SU-35 pilots, but also for Su-27, SU-30, SU-30SM, SU-25, Mig-29, Mig-31 and whatever other Russian jets HM might possibly make in the future within their Russian line-up. Therefore my thinking behind this was, that all the efforts with tampo-printing of Russian pilots helmets wouldn´t be only one-shot venture for HM, only for SU-35, but rather relatively easy way how to improve sometimes criticized HM pilot figures on all Russian pilots possibly made in future. When CalWings announced mass-produced painted F-14 pilot helmets, collectors were just amazed and nobody complained, afaik. Will someone be sending emails to Calibre Wings: “…helmet vents, really? SU-4 is mass produced diecast not a custom plastic kit, please no any holes on SU-24 helmets?” Of course not. Everybody´s happy. As I said, perhaps we have different level of details perception. Which is finally ok….
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukrainian_Falcons
Have to agree, some of these tiny improvements aren't possible nor would we want an unskilled labour force dealing with even more tiny details.
Just to explain - actually some of those improvements were rather pointing out of shortcomings that I´ve noticed on „05“ HA5702 artwork (missing white trapezoid antenna under the nose and not shortened canopy hump in the rear). Other tiny improvements - with utmost respect - I believe would be quite easily makeable if HM would decide to make them. Radome lightning stripes were already on HM F-16s. But I can understand that manufacturing of new diecast form for radome with stripes can be costly. But if so, there´s still chance to make them tampo-printed as Corgi successfully made on their Tonkas. Lightning stripes on SU-35 nose and cut-off rear of the canopy are so noticeable that were worth the efforts not only for Hasegawa, but also for unknown Chinese SU-35 manufacturer, for Terebo on their ´transparent engines´ SU-35 and also AF1 SU-35 have radome stripes (well, sort of …) as well “chopped” rear part of the canopy, so I don´t see any point why not to ask HM whether they are planning to make them on HM Flanker. Also painted pilot helmets are technically possible to mass-produce IMHO - if HM can paint goggles on pilot´s helmets, surely 5 black dots shouldn´t be big problem too. In time when HA5701 and HA5702 will be produced, HM´s new labour force will surely be more skilled as these workers will have some 10, 15 or 20 releases at least á 500pcs already finished at that time.
But I can understand reasoning based on cost vs. benefits viewpoint. This is probably key reason behind many decisions of mainstream diecast manufacturers. „Will the model sell better or for higher price if we make some detail or other?“ Obviously the answer is … „no“ in most cases. Big credits here to William as he is open to reasonable suggestions and sometimes he´s able to change this or that for the benefit of better model. Also, some details may look trivial and tiny on the model, but may be inappropriately costly in production - this I can understand too: when it comes to costs and benefits, these are of course solely HM´s territorial waters. All these reasons I understand - but you never know until you ask...
Well, enough for tiny improvements, I´m much more interested now if Syria SU-35 pilot will have correct flying suit color, and particularly - how will HM cope with the tricky burnt titanium engines coloring. Hoping for not just a plain color…
Re: Hobby Master Sukhoi Su 35 HA5701 (prototype photos)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladia
But again, thanks for takin´ care of me, Adour...
You flatter my motives Ladia, but I'm afraid I have no interest at all in your personal well being. My only interest here is in getting a good model. I'm sure that a master collector such as your good self must be aware that most manufacturers, HM included, have a woeful lack of knowledge about the subjects that they are modelling.
In the case of HM the good news is that "HM listens", and the bad news is that - "HM listens". By that I mean that numerous models have been released with either technical or painting errors in direct consequence of listening to bad advice. Luckily for us you were only asking a "humble question", that I'm sure could not possibly have been misinterpreted as a suggestion or request. Again, my only interest is in not getting a f^<ked up model.
I'm not sure that you and I have a "different level of details perception", but we do seem to differ on their appearance when attempted in diecast. Looking at your canopy examples, as you know, real miniture detonating cord and lightning diverter strips are opaque and thin. In your examples Corgi and HM have produced transparent and hugely over-scale representations. They skate awfully close to being the dreaded "toylike" in appearance, but on balance, like you, I think they do enhance the models. That does not mean that I think they look realistic. To properly represent these features (and don't misunderstand me, I am in no way suggesting this), would require internal canopy painting or tampo printing. If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that HM could model windshield demist elements using the molding technique employed on the canopy. Well, apparently, unlike you I do have a pretty good idea of how that would look since I know the limit of HM's tooling resolution, which is obvious from looking at their models and talking to William. If you put an overscale detail on a large component it is barely noticeable. However, the same overscale detail on a much smaller component looks obviously wrong. I'm afraid that I do think that such an inaccurate and hugely overscale implementation would look clumsy, toylike and most definitely sh1t if done on a windshield. It does not mean that I think such details are insignificant, just that if HM went down that road it would look awful.
Look at an example you didn't give, Corgi's once common removable engine cover feature. Well, aeroplanes have engines and engine covers and of course such details are not insignificant. However, the Corgi diecast implementation was clumsy and toylike. Some people like them, they are entitled to their opinion. Mine is that they look like sh1t. Great on a plastic kit, but some things shouldn't be done on mass produced diecast.
Helmet vents, maybe, if they want to tool a new modern Russian pilot figure. Not fine to attempt on their standard jet smurf. I'm afraid I do think they'd have a problem with "five black dots".
Radome diverter strips? I agree with you, sorry if that wasn't clear. It's what I meant by "tick".
Flying suit colours? Absolutely. HM can do it but for some reason they usually need to be prompted.
Engine colouring? Worth a try, but the days when HM were capable of such subtleties appear to be long gone, unfortunately.
Re: Hobby Master Sukhoi Su 35 HA5701 (prototype photos)
No problem at all, UF .
Btw, in your counting of improvements that were successfully suggested by forum members - have you included SU-35 canopy, shorter NLG and more detailed vertical tail fins? If not yet, then you can include three more. (... hoping the counting will not spark any undue competition )
Re: Hobby Master Sukhoi Su 35 HA5701 (prototype photos)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladia
No problem at all, UF .
Btw, in your counting of improvements that were successfully suggested by forum members - have you included SU-35 canopy, shorter NLG and more detailed vertical tail fins? If not yet, then you can include three more. (... hoping the counting will not spark any undue competition )
Cool, your input on this forum and into improving models is highly valued.
Actually I only counted per model improved, not actual improvements. So far I count Aerobatic Fishbed, NVAF Fresco, Traitor Foxbat, both Su-35's, Cherry Girl Thud and the half is for the Czech Flogger but unconfirmed if suggestions were taken up, apparently an expert in Czech aviation was being consulted for advice.
Did I miss anything ? I've spoken about the Polish Flogger with HM but I wouldn't consider anything talked about as improvements.
Last edited by Ukrainian_Falcons; 07-20-2017 at 01:38 AM.
Re: Hobby Master Sukhoi Su 35 HA5701 (prototype photos)
well she's finally just landed. well not exactly just... but i only just had time to unbox this beauty. the first thing i noticed is that this model (as with many of hm's recent releases) is pretty light for such a huge model. the cost of diecast alloy must be soaring.
some minor issue with the fitment of the mlg bay doors (it's not even featured in the assembly instruction sheet!). doesn't quite fit. same with the underbelly missiles, extremely tight fit. and again, you gotto remove the rear missile to fit its stand. not really a big issue considering af1 never even provided the missiles in the first place.
paint app is crisp (way way better than af1's pathetic effort) although i get the impression that hm slacked on the detailing (i may be wrong as the actual plane may have lacked the details commonly associated with operational birds)... and the ordnance is pretty basic (all grey bombs? like seriously?).
anyway, that's it for now. just a quick unbox and a single pic. a pretty awesome first effort with no noticeable filing marks
1Likes
Re: Hobby Master Sukhoi Su 35 HA5701 (prototype photos)
.
Your Privacy Choices
