tker76

My regular guy (Armchair Aviator in Western Australia) forwarded me the following email this morning:

The 1965 date given for the scheme, which should be 1972, is obviously incorrect and Air Commander's actual versus stated release dates tend to slip so I think perhaps later than March arrival, but I think this will excite quite a few of the guys who missed out on HM's ST100 all those years ago as well as the guys like me who are nuts about Spooks, especially MiG-killing Spooks!!

I am excited at least, and will definitely be adding this to my own collection - despite having bought the HM effort on its release, all those years ago. I have often stated my desire for an all Air Commander F-4 collection, though I don't think I'll give up my HM copy when this comes out. It's just such a great scheme, both aesthetically and historically.

I will ask Graeme (Armchair Aviator) to email AC to ensure this version comes with the correct CBU flak suppression loadout carried that day in '72, although I expect AC are probably already on top of that detail.

robertjon5

too late!! Sold out already!!!!!! just bought the LOT!! quickest sell out in history?????????

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Eagle_Flyer

Wouldn't the shipping be quite expensive from the Armchair Aviator Although I'm not sure if the UK still has an AC distributor as the last lot taken off Tiger Hobbies may have been a one off deal.

robertjon5

will soon find out!!! expect price to be around £130.00 gbp! up £20 or so. FT were £110 + Jumblies £120 on last release.

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MAMC1943

Oh no, not another 150 bucks of my meagre savings down the Swanee........

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Wildblood

I'd be amazed if AC managed to get this out by March, unless they meant 2018!? I'm pleased for the faithful but I'd personally been hoping for a non-US release (Israeli or JASDF for me).

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Wildblood

The last RRP was £135 and that was probably a result of earlier exchange rates so my guess would be nearer £150 now, so £130-135 after retailer discount may be likely. If it is stocked in the UK? I'd think Flying Tigers would be likely to get some from somewhere.

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Javabean

I'm so looking forward to this one!

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Robin

Eagle_Flyer

£130 is definitely me out then, would rather put that kind of money (assuming it's not a lemon) towards a Calibre F-14.

PBRStreetgang

I have been waiting for this for an age. This is great news.

Still think a split run with this would be cool. Showtime 100 and Lt Michael J 'Matt' Connelly and RIO Lt Thomas J J Blonski's F4, callsign Showtime 106 (double MIGKiller).

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Ladia

Maybe not so serious with the price:

Air Commander AC1006, F-4J NG211,VF-92,USS Constellation,10 May 1972, 1:72 | eBay


+/- same price as HM Phantoms

robertjon5

link doesn't appear to work.

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robertjon5

found it via ebay.com $125 shipped to u.k. customs will add another 25-30 minimum. so no cheaper @ £125.00 gbp.

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Ladia

Link corrected in my original post, in case of any problems just search for Air Commander AC1006, F-4J on Electronics, Cars, Fashion, Collectibles, Coupons and More | eBay, seller is airland-model

Shawn507

So over this squadron.

I wouldn't hold your breath that AC will get the weapons correct.

They didn't for the Super Sonic Gun Killer F-4E.

tker76

They did in terms of aircraft as depicted, although not mission when kill occurred (eg model had kill star and shark mouth, which at time of kill weren't present; however, payload is more accurate than any other SEA F-4E on regular trips North seen, with exception of unique examples such as HM's excellent "Chico the Gunfighter"..).

Difference is for this mission all the markings as shown were worn.

Still, you're right, they might not get it right and the squadron's one we've seen before; however, I personally am still pleased by the news of its release.

If nothing else it makes a nice wingman for the Dosé VF-92 MiG-killer, as VF-92 and VF-96 were sister squadrons in same CVW for cruise (era in fact) in question.

Anyway Graeme has asked them for CBUs, so I won't hold my breath, but I will keep fingers x'd.

F14 JET

I Know that the AC quality is better but i have HM Showtime 100 and 112 so this is a No from me just wish AC would have brought out something different there are 100s of Navy Phantoms to choose from This one for instance

robertjon5

just ordered from FLYING TIGERS. SAME price as the last one!!! £109.95!!

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tker76

Graeme from Armchair Aviator just confirmed Air Commander will be supplying the correct CBU loadout

Wildblood

Supposedly being released at the end of August in the UK, which would suggest 2-3 months earlier in the Far East? I'll have to buy a hat to eat it if they manage that! Unless AC have finally got it together!?

Air Commander 1:72 F-4J Phantom NG100 VF-96 USS Constellation 10th MAY 1972 - Air Commander from Jumblies Models UK

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FortunateSon

congratulations to air commander for this business move which came probably 12 months too late (as HM probably took some of their market away with the recent showtime) but still...

going to sell my HM showtime soon probably then. already sold the 4 others i had stashed away at one point ...

chubbeyfinger

I sold my HM copy as well, I hate the way HM made the tooling for the gear and such. I and so many of you other collectors will be waiting for the Air Commander to hit the selves

Wildblood

Tker, has Graeme received any info on the proposed production run on this?

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Surinam Air 747

I'm sticking to my original HM F-4 'Showtime 100', i don't need this bird in my Phantom collection... but having said that, why still no U.S Marines F-4 Phantom by AC, so many cool liveries to be done from popular Marine squadrons, such as VMFA-232, VMFA-115 & VMFA-314 for starters...

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FortunateSon

in my opinion, there is no better marine f4 than hobbymaster HA1911 (shamrocks). the pre-pro photos dont do it justice. somewhat HTF, but unless AC makes a USMC phantom, that may be the one to get.

Surinam Air 747

True! the VMFA-333 is also popular but with HM already having released it perhaps AC will be reluctant to release one of their own, either way it's not a bad choice, i guess will have to wait & see what AC first U.S Marine F-4 Phantom will look like...

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I WANT TO BELIEVE...

...that one day I will see many more colorful JC Wings MD-11 models and the long-awaited Gemini 200 TWA twin stripes 727-200!

I always fly America's favorite airline: Southwest Airlines and the World's oldest KLM!

Paris was the greatest city on earth! Vive la France! Tokyo 2020!

tker76

Not that I am aware of, though I will ask next time we speak.

AC will, I am sure, eventually update their website to reflect that VF-92 has been released already (not coming soon!) and list this, hopefully they will include a run number (either directly or on a pre-prod of the collectors card..) too.

Ladia

Personal taste is always a tricky matter .

VMFA-314 Black Knights Marine Phantoms would also look awesome in diecast IMHO:

tripoli

After the supersonic gun kill, hard for me to purchase HM F-4's anymore. I am happy a third company has come to bat and done well with them. Hoping that Calibre will also up the game with their models.

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Jeff

tigers747

The mold is already there as in the VF-92 F4J. As VF-96 was on board at the same time with J's I don't think there would be much difference in the basic airframe. All they need is the markings for VF-96 and they are set. In the US the AC will cost about 40% higher then a HM F4. Is it worth it? Yes. HM need to catch up as per numerous comments above and they need to change the LG as there are still problems in that area even with the 'peg". Let's ask AC to redo the F8 MiG Kill airplane in one way or another!

Shawn507

I have never had a single issue with all the HM F-4s and their MLG. Several moves in the military. A hundred pound lab that bounced the floors of military housing, cats and a kid. And never once did I have a failure.

I guess having the wheels molded directly to the MLG door as AC does is considered highly accurate.

But don't mind me, I am just defending HM right?

tker76

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

While I prefer the AC Spooks, I also love my HM Spooks (including those great EuroOne 'SP' Spangdahlem Wild Weasel hunter/killer releases we have you to thank for among my myriad Vietnam schemes), but if you have really never had any issue with he MLG you are a far more fortunate collector than I.

I am in the midst of setting up my cabs (pics will be posted soon, proving my love for HM's models by the number and variety that will be on display) and am finding that the HM MLG is both fiddly and fragile, with even a light accidentally touch regularly resulting in a collapse.

That is even with blu tack in place to help (temporarily until I employ white glue once the display layout is finalised). The single piece MLG cartridge as AC uses (and HM does on other types) is simply a better design.

As for whether that is an accurate representation of how MLG works IRL, as you have rightly pointed out these are toy planes we are discussing, not real Phantoms - or even flying models.

Given that, surely whatever is most functional and detailed is better?

tigers747

I guess we can discuss HM F4 LG a bit more in case William is reading? Almost every time I move an HM F4 for any reason one or more LG fall off. I have 3 AC models and have never had a problem with that. The fix is to change to the AC style fixture, simple. As far as the AC main LG door too close to the gear leg for added support do you really notice that? The key to 99% perfection is to build one or more of the great plastic models out there instead.
I quit that 10 years ago or so as not up to it at this point. There is room for HM and AC but you pay for what you get and neither are really cheap compared to 5 years ago.

Shawn507

So we want super detailing, but it's ok if the MLG isn't? Got it. People get bent over nozzles yet most are displayed with them out of sight. You tell me what is a reasonable to ask for.

White glue is all that's needed to keep the HM gear in place. You can the n do anything you want and they will remain in place.

Is this really a difficult concept to grasp?

HM isn't going to retool the model at this stage.

tigers747

I am talking about "out of the box" not using glue, wax, etc. Of course you can "fix" the gear in various ways Shawn. Please do not be condescending on the subject.

Eagle_Flyer

HM have quite recently modified the F-4 MLG so it's unlikely they will change it again.

AirCal

I have the original Showtime 100 that I had on display for several years. Never had a problem with shaky gear, even with a few small earthquakes thrown in. I do have a couple of other F-4s but haven't displayed them to know of any issues.

Shawn507

Well then don't act like they are the greatest failure in diecast history. Does the box need a "advanced assembly skills required" sticker?

They have been around for how many years now? By now it shouldn't be a shock that blue tac or white glue is required. It doesn't add that much more time to set up the model.

Any model made by anyone prior to plug and play MLG is now substandard?

Feynman

With respect, if we're paying the amount that we are is it too much to expect that the undercarriage is designed in such a way that white glue or blue tac are not required? If I pay £100 for a model I do not expect to have to glue or blue tac the undercarriage on. If I was paying, say, £10, then I wouldn't be so bothered about it, but at the prices we are paying I don't feel we should have to be playing at Airfix. Whether or not I have the ability to use a tube of glue is neither here nor there.

I just want to add that my comments are not aimed at HM; indeed I think Corgi have more to answer for on the issue of landing gear. But when it comes to HM F-4s the LG for the earlier models is - as I discovered myself recently, well, not good. But they made good and made changes, so fair play to them.

tripoli

I think the HM F-4's are nice. I just want the best of the best in my display. HM's factory did at one time produce the Century Wings line, William had noted he could produce HM models with such detail but he felt the cost would be too much.
I think that there is definitely a demand for a higher quality model line. HM has slipped in their own QC and that might be the kick they need to up their game again. I have plenty of HM models including F-4's, but I have to say, even with the issues on the AC supersonic gun kill model, the detailing made that model pop on the shelf.
Certainly it would be interesting to see how such models might sell. With HM cutting down production numbers, they might want to consider a special line to diversify the line and see if they would sell well.

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Jeff

Eagle_Flyer

I think Calibre Wings will be the test for that. If they do quite well with the price, the quality - it would certainly draw the attention of the other brands.

The thing about AC is their F-4 mold was bought from someone else and I don't really think they make all that much money out of it. Certainly not enough to develop new toolings... Calibre on the other hand...

FortunateSon

THIS.

glad i'm not the only one saying that any more. Let's be really frank about the state of HM: we got ****tier models for the last few years in part because a small number of pied pipers whored for them in the forums (put forth their own bull**** economic theories about the cost of labour in china, tried to explain away how hm put great detail into some models but not others, generally polished turds, and i think somebody even tried to convince us that the *cost of the metal and paint* were actual factors that mattered in our $100+ models) in exchange for convincing HM to put their efforts and focus into a few pet project models for themselves rather than for the overall good of the hobby. These are the exactly the same pied pipers who made every excuse possible for falcon models and look where they are now.

????????

draw your own conclusions.

that also said, said pied pipers are far from the only reason that we are where we are. an abject lack of focus by the US distributors probably hasn't helped either and the fact that we as loyal customers for a while anyway continued to buy blatantly substandard releases at inflated prices is our own fault.

it's also not all bad news. recently hm has shown some interest in slowly improving finishes. a long way to go, but a start. and the new moulds they produce continue to be outstanding. it's just the finishes and lack of options that have been so annoying, coupled with clearly the expensive and complicated liveries being made for niche markets (sabre, anybody?).

phantom gear was a bad design. hm have learned how to do it better now. fortunately there are workarounds. let's just chalk that up to a suboptimal design in hm's early days.

tker76

I quite agree, you make some very sound points.

Eagle_Flyer

Up on J's for pre-order now and still £120 Quoting a dispatch date of 31-08-2017 Guess we can assume there is still a UK importer for AC.

robertjon5

must have. but ordered mine from FLYING TIGERS who are still £109.95!!

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Ukrainian_Falcons

Alot of valid points.

I always believed Falcon went belly up because of it's poor choice in very niche schemes which was probably the result of bad advice from experts.

And it didn't help that their QC and parts fitting was always apologised for also.

tim_1/72

The HM Japanese spooks are a testament to HM's potential. They could easily do SEA F-4E's with Air commander like details if they wanted to. I would even say that HM has the superior mold. Sans the LG assembly which were never a pain to me as it is for some of the gents because AC's windshield is just looks so wrong and it looks upside down. But overall they look the same to me so I would go with the model with the most details. I had both the X-plus and HM F-4 sundowners and X-plus just blew it away. I do not know how accurate those stencils are or if they are even true to scale but more details beats less every time. I wouldn't even bother with an HM showtime 100 even if it sells for a $100 now that AC's doing it.

Ukrainian_Falcons

I own 8 (9 at one point) Hobby Master F-4 Phantoms and do not have any problems with their gears

You guys should own some HM Fishbeds or just about any Witty model, THEN you can sook about gears

This is really a non event, buy whichever manu you prefer

tim_1/72

or Buy the model you think looks better regardless of manu

Eagle_Flyer

Is that without using white glue/blu tac. On all of my 10+ HM Phantoms I have had to use white glue otherwise they are prone to collapsing. Not really a major issue though as poor fitting parts is quite common on a lot of models regardless of brand. Usually it is fixable.

However, fair enough if a collector doesn't want to buy a particular type of model because of the parts fit. As already mentioned by Tim, the hobby is about buying models you like regardless of brand.