Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940 - DA.C
 

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Old 11-11-2016, 01:47 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

Hobby Master 1:48 Air Power Series HA8711
Messerschmitt Bf 109E Diecast Model
Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick,
Battle of Britain, October 1940

January 2017 Release as announced on The Flying Mule, pre-order for March 2017:

Bf 109E 1:48 Diecast Model - Hobby Master HM-HA8711 - $87.99

Toby

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Old 11-11-2016, 02:30 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

This one looks nice, hope HM can get the pattern right and finally fix those gears as promised a release ago
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Old 11-11-2016, 02:44 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

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Originally Posted by Ukrainian_Falcons View Post
This one looks nice, hope HM can get the pattern right and finally fix those gears as promised a release ago
I hear that.

Based on past experience though, unfortunately, the landing gear is probably too much to hope for quite yet (the F-4 took, what, 8yrs or whatever it was exactly after all..), but we can all be hopeful about the mottling at least!!

As with so many releases the QC is the big concern though these days, isn't it?
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Old 01-18-2017, 04:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

Hobby Master 1/48 scale Air Power Series HA8711 BF 109E-4 flown by Major Helmut Wick, JG.2, 1940

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Old 01-18-2017, 06:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

The pre-pro pictures continue to show what are, little doubt, the wrong crosses on the underside of the wings. Fortunately for those concerned about correcting this type of basic error, the standard decal sheets contain the right crosses that fit almost perfectly over the HM markings.
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

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Originally Posted by Epap1 View Post
The pre-pro pictures continue to show what are, little doubt, the wrong crosses on the underside of the wings. Fortunately for those concerned about correcting this type of basic error, the standard decal sheets contain the right crosses that fit almost perfectly over the HM markings.
Can this be saved ? It's only at pre pro stage. What about the gears ? Still too long ? The scheme seems as good as HM is ever going to get a camo scheme right.
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

AARGH! It seems from the photo that the landing gear legs still look too long. HM promised correction after the first release, then after the second release, but they still can't seem to get it right ...

Look here: http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNe...tt-Bf-109.aspx

Last edited by JML54; 01-18-2017 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:24 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

Nevertheless, it is still quite appealing, scheme-wise.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:00 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

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Originally Posted by Ukrainian_Falcons View Post
Can this be saved ? It's only at pre pro stage. What about the gears ? Still too long ? The scheme seems as good as HM is ever going to get a camo scheme right.
Probably not. I suspect that HM mass produced the wings with the wrong crosses as well as the landing gear and has decided to use up its stock of wrong parts on future BF-109E-4 schemes. This is a standard HM production ploy, as it saves some costs in setting up each run, but this time poor research and lack of quality control---or supervision---did major damage for those few of us who know about WW2 German warbirds.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:27 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

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Probably not. I suspect that HM mass produced the wings with the wrong crosses as well as the landing gear and has decided to use up its stock of wrong parts on future BF-109E-4 schemes. This is a standard HM production ploy, as it saves some costs in setting up each run, but this time poor research and lack of quality control---or supervision---did major damage for those few of us who know about WW2 German warbirds.
The circumstances that led to this sad state of affairs in the hobby were recently described to perfection by Fortunate_Son and I don't feel there is anything that needs to be added to that analysis, other than to reiterate that it is quite perverse that niche schemes worn by types that saw no combat are lavished with attention while releases that should have mass appeal - such as these Emils - are riddled with inaccuracies and QC issues.

Meanwhile, those responsible tell the rest of us that we have not only no reason, but also no right to criticise HM for these flaws which are off-putting to even the newest of collectors (eg the MLG, if not the crosses too).

They then have the gall to paint themselves as champions of the hobby and business they are slowly, but surely destroying with their selfish actions.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:38 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

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Originally Posted by Epap1 View Post
Probably not. I suspect that HM mass produced the wings with the wrong crosses as well as the landing gear and has decided to use up its stock of wrong parts on future BF-109E-4 schemes. This is a standard HM production ploy, as it saves some costs in setting up each run, but this time poor research and lack of quality control---or supervision---did major damage for those few of us who know about WW2 German warbirds.
Defo think that is the case, a few releases have also suffered from this. Guess I still won't be getting an E, maybe by the time they do a G, they'd have finally used up all those inaccurate gears and researched the markings a lot better.
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

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Originally Posted by tker76 View Post
The circumstances that led to this sad state of affairs in the hobby were recently described to perfection by Fortunate_Son and I don't feel there is anything that needs to be added to that analysis, other than to reiterate that it is quite perverse that niche schemes worn by types that saw no combat are lavished with attention while releases that should have mass appeal - such as these Emils - are riddled with inaccuracies and QC issues.

Meanwhile, those responsible tell the rest of us that we have not only no reason, but also no right to criticise HM for these flaws which are off-putting to even the newest of collectors (eg the MLG, if not the crosses too).

They then have the gall to paint themselves as champions of the hobby and business they are slowly, but surely destroying with their selfish actions.
It would appear that way, too much focus on niche models that I see dump everywhere that never wanted them in the first place and not enough care put into these types that appeal to just about everyone everywhere and not just one country or person.
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Old 01-19-2017, 09:03 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

To be fair to those who object to "unfair" criticisms of the models, I feel that critics who simply bash the products without pointing out the defects with evidence to make their point or those who pick apart every detail no matter how insignificant it is, are not particularly helpful. I think that major flaws, such as the HM BF-109E wing crosses are fair game, however, as this puts the manufacturers on notice that people who know something are watching and will alert others about major foul ups and a continued pattern of same.

I do recognize, what I perceive to be an unspoken fear among many collectors, namely that too much criticism on the forums may cause the manufacturers that are left to give up and stop making diecast aircraft replicas. That fear is understandable, however, I should point out that the various forums have, perhaps, 200 active posters on the subject of WW2 diecast warbirds, and 3000 or so lurkers. While many of these folks are somewhat dedicated diecast collectors, hence fairly frequent buyers, they do not constitute even 10- 15% of the market and, probably a lot less for the much overdone "iconics". So I wouldn't worry too much on that score.
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Old 01-19-2017, 05:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

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this puts the manufacturers on notice that people who know something are watching and will alert others about major foul ups and a continued pattern of same.

I do recognize, what I perceive to be an unspoken fear among many collectors, namely that too much criticism on the forums may cause the manufacturers that are left to give up and stop making diecast
Exactly, though we've been told by the expert that only 10% of collectors visit this or other forums, the volume of lurkers proves this to be an inaccurate figure, I'd say it's closer to 10% that don't access the internet for this hobby because of their age and they don't like or don't want to share or access the internet.

I honestly don't think any manu would stop making models just because ppl were constantly pointing out their errors otherwise HM should have stopped about 2-3 years ago, this hobby is still profitable for them. What they do fail to understand is why there is a reduction is models bought, they halved or even cut down to a third the previous normal production run because of poor sales but not realising why there were poor sales, ie poorer quality models at higher price or niche market models that dumped, manus solution was to continue poorer quality, increase defects or intentional errors to save themselves money and reduce production numbers, further driving up the price
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Old 01-19-2017, 05:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

At the end of the day it's HM's decision how they make their models and at what price they want to sell. I don't think there's anything collectors can do about it except vote with their wallet.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

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Exactly, though we've been told by the expert that only 10% of collectors visit this or other forums, the volume of lurkers proves this to be an inaccurate figure, I'd say it's closer to 10% that don't access the internet for this hobby because of their age and they don't like or don't want to share or access the internet.

I honestly don't think any manu would stop making models just because ppl were constantly pointing out their errors otherwise HM should have stopped about 2-3 years ago, this hobby is still profitable for them. What they do fail to understand is why there is a reduction is models bought, they halved or even cut down to a third the previous normal production run because of poor sales but not realising why there were poor sales, ie poorer quality models at higher price or niche market models that dumped, manus solution was to continue poorer quality, increase defects or intentional errors to save themselves money and reduce production numbers, further driving up the price
This is what I don't get - why people think the diecast manus are somehow doing us a favour, when in fact they are running a business for profit (and fun in the case of CW, it seems..).

HM and Corgi have both learned some harsh realities that the current reduced production runs clearly reflect, but anyone who thinks matters will be improved for any of the actors here - collectors, manus, "the hobby" - by doubling down on cutting corners WRT research/production QC, or that these manus will get offended and take their ball home (as it were, and as some of the thinner-skinned forum regulars seem to do cyclically) is clearly insulated from much economics, or even simple interactions with business.

I suspect it's people with government jobs, or who work in roles very far removed from the commercial pointy-end of their employer's business (eg researchers, the meat-puppets who turn autopilot on and off during long-haul flights, academics, etc..) who harbour such simplistic, almost primitive cargo-cult, type beliefs.

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Originally Posted by Eagle_Flyer View Post
At the end of the day it's HM's decision how they make their models and at what price they want to sell. I don't think there's anything collectors can do about it except vote with their wallet.
This sums up what I am saying perfectly. It's economic reality that drives businesses behaviour, not feelings.

At least for those manus who are still in business.

And the fact is collectors - whether they actively participate in these forums or not - do care about both accuracy and QC..
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:49 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

Some of this discussion could be mistaken as being about the concern of upsetting a child with careless words. Seriously: any manufacturer that is run by someone who is going to throw their toys out of the pram because their products have been criticised is bound to fail, and it is then only a matter of time. Even to say that you need a thick skin in business to do well isn't enough; you need to know how to make best use of constructive criticism to your advantage (it's free test marketing!) and ignore the unhelpful criticism. The trick is to know which is which because the truth is there is no-one easier to fool than yourself!
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

The price increases certainly aren't helping. Corgi put theirs up not too long ago. I didn't get their P-38 after that.
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Old 01-19-2017, 06:55 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

Well that's it: when you charge as much as some of these manus do you have to expect that your product will come under a certain degree of scrutiny.
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:08 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

Defo voting with my wallet on all future releases from any manu, there's no room for errors with current pricing and I don't see the need to dup models if the "10 yr old not so great moulds" still compare better to current market quality.

The only unhelpful criticism I see on here are the apologies for errors and complaining about errors / poor QC being spotted.

In the case of HM, they are avoiding collector concerns by not allowing the community to spot potential issues by rarely doing pre pro shots now and those that do have them like this model, can't be helped because of deliberate use of flawed parts or poor decal research, the favour was us spotting issues and trying to get them corrected, not manus making toys for us.

Corgi is no different, increase in price, lower quality models, poor release choices.
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:12 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

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The price increases certainly aren't helping. Corgi put theirs up not too long ago. I didn't get their P-38 after that.
Ditto. I asked Bob Oddie at the Brentwood toy fair to get me one, but he advised me that with the price increase, even he (& he usually discounts his prices) would have to charge at least £60. That put me right off it, ace model though it is.
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:15 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

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Defo voting with my wallet on all future releases from any manu, there's no room for errors with current pricing and I don't see the need to dup models if the "10 yr old not so great moulds" still compare better to current market quality.

The only unhelpful criticism I see on here are the apologies for errors and complaining about errors / poor QC being spotted.

In the case of HM, they are avoiding collector concerns by not allowing the community to spot potential issues by rarely doing pre pro shots now and those that do have them like this model, can't be helped because of deliberate use of flawed parts or poor decal research, the favour was us spotting issues and trying to get them corrected, not manus making toys for us.

Corgi is no different, increase in price, lower quality models, poor release choices.
Corgi's more recent models are better than HM's current ones for the money, though.
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

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Ditto. I asked Bob Oddie at the Brentwood toy fair to get me one, but he advised me that with the price increase, even he (& he usually discounts his prices) would have to charge at least £60. That put me right off it, ace model though it is.
Unfortunately in the current post-Brexit uncertainty environment, the Pooch must be in a tough spot as far as pricing goes (this is true of all manus, but Corgi are particularly badly affected as they are UK based); while it was great for me visiting ARD and picking up some relative bargains with my Aussie $$$'s (as well as at the wonderful Whisky Exchange at Covent Garden ), it makes pricing even harder, and ordering from overseas must be a nightmare for those paid in UKP right now..

These things are cyclical too though, and hopefully the UK will see a return to financial form as the uncertainty surrounding Brexit fades and the economy picks up.
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:47 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

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Corgi's more recent models are better than HM's current ones for the money, though.
Have to agree with you there, the recent Catalina cost me $150 (not incl shipping), a similar sized HM model would be like $300
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Old 01-21-2017, 04:25 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

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Have to agree with you there, the recent Catalina cost me $150 (not incl shipping), a similar sized HM model would be like $300
Also, Corgi's 1/72 single engined prop planes average around £40 compared with HM's £50.
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Old 01-21-2017, 05:41 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

...but neither of those brands are particularly in "direct" competition. You want a 1/72 P-51 then it's Corgi, you want a 1/72 F-15 and Corgi is out of the equation... and the modern jets that Corgi do as new releases such as Tornado, Jag, Bucc aren't made by HM.

It's a similar situation in 1/48, HM do the WWII warbirds and it appears Corgi are entering into the "modern" jet category for that scale.
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Old 04-16-2017, 05:55 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

Wick - an archetypal 'yellow noser'...

















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Old 04-17-2017, 04:30 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

That looks pretty good! It looks like HM finally corrected to too-long landing gear, can you confirm that?
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:36 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

Sildani... Hobbymaster have confirmed that the undercarriage was shortened from the second release, the Galland ...

#1



#2



#3



It looks like they have taken a chunk from the top of the leg..
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Old 05-03-2017, 05:42 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

William can always send a correct set of gear.
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Old 05-03-2017, 05:42 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA8711 Messerschmitt Bf 109E Luftwaffe JG 2, Helmut Wick, BoB 1940

Oh, and those flying photos are superb!
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