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Old 08-16-2016, 04:38 AM   #51
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

I post in this one because:
a) Ukranian Falcons doesn't.
b) The other thread should have been merged into this one from the start.
End of story.
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Old 08-16-2016, 04:41 AM   #52
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

The other thread is just ramblings about Voodoo wishlists and RCAF bashing anyway.


Last edited by Zendocon; 08-16-2016 at 04:43 AM.
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Old 08-16-2016, 04:58 AM   #53
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zendocon View Post
I post in this one because:
a) Ukranian Falcons doesn't.
b) The other thread should have been merged into this one from the start.
End of story.
This type of pettiness is no good for any community Zendocoon. There really is no need for it either, especially as this picture (via TFM) was posted in the proper thread some time ago.

Last edited by tker76; 08-16-2016 at 05:06 AM.
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:02 AM   #54
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

A picture from the HM product description has already been posted by YOWGuy, but to centralise discussion in one thread here a newly released HM branded version:



I wish this stupid bickering would just stop, can those responsible please stop acting like sulky children and contribute to the forum like the grownups do
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:02 AM   #55
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

Oh children, behave...
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:05 AM   #56
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

It actually looks better in the pic than the photos, though still not my personal cup of tea...

Still, at least HM should be able to get the colours pretty close to correct with this one.
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:08 AM   #57
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tker76 View Post
It actually looks better in the pic than the photos, though still not my personal cup of tea...

Still, at least HM should be able to get the colours pretty close to correct with this one.

it may actually look at home beside the aete bug, nasa viper and bi-eagle!
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:13 AM   #58
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

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it may actually look at home beside the aete bug, nasa viper and bi-eagle!
It would look pretty neat in that company.

That means there's NO WAY I'm buying this, lest I start to feel the compulsion to buy the rest
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Old 08-16-2016, 05:25 AM   #59
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

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It would look pretty neat in that company.

That means there's NO WAY I'm buying this, lest I start to feel the compulsion to buy the rest
well... it'll look equally at home if you already have the thunderbirds theme going too
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Old 08-16-2016, 09:01 AM   #60
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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This type of pettiness is no good for any community Zendocoon. There really is no need for it either, especially as this picture (via TFM) was posted in the proper thread some time ago.
Says who? First is first right?

The Flying Mule drawing is different and has a lower resolution.

Back on topic.

Some additional photos.

Note the black external fuel tank as well as the pitot tube having black and white stripes vs standard red and white. Also the yellow warning stencils under the canopy are toned down.

Dan







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Old 08-16-2016, 10:20 AM   #61
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

It will be interesting to see what Hobby Master includes with this one. I have not seen a photo of the plane with more than one external fuel tank attached, but I don't expect them to create that additional pod that's visible in these photos. Any idea what that's for, Dan?
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:22 AM   #62
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Says who? First is first right?

The Flying Mule drawing is different and has a lower resolution.
I meant the childish personal attacks on other forum members actually. I have also already reposted the HM images into the thread everyone else is following.

Even when you decided to double post everything I had already posted I suggested your Ginger Lacy thread should be the one kept as it was where the discussion was.

Right since you started this whole ridiculous farrago I have been saying we should just act like grown men, not petulant children. I hope you have this out of your system now, for the sake of the mass of us who are totally uninterested in whatever perceived battle you are fighting Dan. It does get somewhat tedious, and the last thing I want is to be a tattle-tale running off to the mods.

Last edited by tker76; 08-16-2016 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:28 AM   #63
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

Again, back on topic...Dan, do you know what that underbelly pod was for?
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:48 AM   #64
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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I meant the childish personal attacks on other forum members actually. I have also already reposted the HM images into the thread everyone else is following.

Even when you decided to double post everything I had already posted I suggested your Ginger Lacy thread should be the one kept as it was where the discussion was.

Right since you started this whole ridiculous farrago I have been saying we should just act like grown men, not petulant children. I hope you have this out of your system now, for the sake of the mass of us who are totally uninterested in whatever perceived battle you are fighting Dan. It does get somewhat tedious, and the last thing I want is to be a tattle-tale running off to the mods.
It's funny to me because I haven't posted any personal attacks. The other thread had contained personal attacks, most of which have since been deleted by the mods. Not only was this the first thread about the model, the post of the official HM drawing was also posted here first. Probably because it's the thread where the people are interested in the model being discussed instead of being "petulant children" and bashing a model they haven't even seen yet. The mods have been contacted about merging the threads and that's what should have been done right from the start. But I'm not going to contribute to the Canadian bashing session that UF is trying to perpetuate, so I'll continue to post here - in the original thread. Hopefully the mods will go through and delete all of the off topic posts (including this one), merge the threads, and we can get back to talking about what looks like a great new release from Hobby Master.
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:10 AM   #65
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Originally Posted by Ukrainian_Falcons View Post
Well that would be the Dresden apology leaflet dispenser
Last time I checked RAAF Squadrons were part of Bomber Command. You need to brush up on your own country's proud history.

Now Back on topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zendocon View Post
It will be interesting to see what Hobby Master includes with this one. I have not seen a photo of the plane with more than one external fuel tank attached, but I don't expect them to create that additional pod that's visible in these photos. Any idea what that's for, Dan?
Travel pod I believe.

Dan
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:11 AM   #66
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Originally Posted by Zendocon View Post
It's funny to me because I haven't posted any personal attacks. The other thread had contained personal attacks, most of which have since been deleted by the mods. Not only was this the first thread about the model, the post of the official HM drawing was also posted here first. Probably because it's the thread where the people are interested in the model being discussed instead of being "petulant children" and bashing a model they haven't even seen yet. The mods have been contacted about merging the threads and that's what should have been done right from the start. But I'm not going to contribute to the Canadian bashing session that UF is trying to perpetuate, so I'll continue to post here - in the original thread. Hopefully the mods will go through and delete all of the off topic posts (including this one), merge the threads, and we can get back to talking about what looks like a great new release from Hobby Master.
Amen!

Dan
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Old 08-16-2016, 12:08 PM   #67
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Last time I checked RAAF Squadrons were part of Bomber Command. You need to brush up on your own country's proud history.

Now Back on topic.



Travel pod I believe.

Dan
Make the travel pod HM..........! For what they're gonna charge it should be included. I know that's not how it works, but still.
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Old 08-16-2016, 12:31 PM   #68
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Make the travel pod HM..........! For what they're gonna charge it should be included. I know that's not how it works, but still.
Sure. Just provide Hobby Master with the name of the plastic kit that makes it.

Or alternatively send them multiple photos of the pod taken from several angles and be sure to include the exact dimensions.

Easy.

Dan
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Old 08-16-2016, 12:40 PM   #69
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

As Donald Trump should know, the facts are a 'rhymes with rich, starts with b' - Air Power Development Centre

Is the Voodoo white or cream coloured Dan?

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Last time I checked RAAF Squadrons were part of Bomber Command. You need to brush up on your own country's proud history.
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:07 PM   #70
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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As Donald Trump should know, the facts are a 'rhymes with rich, starts with b' - Air Power Development Centre

Is the Voodoo white or cream coloured Dan?
Thanks for the link.

War is awful. No doubt about it. However, no one should question the bravery of those who had to interrupt their lives and sacrifice to do what had to be done. Including those brave RAAF crews.



Back on topic.

All my references say that the Lynx Voodoo was white.

Dan
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Old 08-16-2016, 01:18 PM   #71
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

There have been actually two aircraft that have worn this scheme.

There is a "Lynx One" Voodoo at the Reynolds Museum in Wetaskiwin, Alberta. The original aircraft is in the Atlantic Canada Aviation Museum located at Halifax.

The Reynolds Museum version is just a repaint of #101038 (which did serve with 416 Squadron but never operationally in this special scheme).

This aircraft was used for battle damage repair training purposes after retirement at Cold Lake.

To celebrate the 50th Anniversary of 416 Squadron (equipped with the CF-18 and then based at Cold Lake) the aircraft was painted in the same "Lynx Squadron Canada scheme). It never did fly wearing these colours though.


The Lynx painted on the side of the fuselage is slightly different compared to that on the original "Lynx One" and the aircraft number on the tail is missing. I actually think the Lynx looks better on the Reynolds version - but it would not be accurate.

Dan


#101038 at the Reynolds Museum




#101043 at the Atlantic Canada Aviation Museum
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Old 08-16-2016, 02:22 PM   #72
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

thank you, lou... or whoever the mod was to merge the threads.

dan... i misread your sig as "us is an idiot". my bad. it's no wonder you always treat my visual observations with suspect

i guess you'll be involved heavily in this project to ensure accuracy? the aete was a work of absolute passion. and yes, i would personally prefer the reynolds lynx but i'll pass on this rather bland scheme though. i dunno... this could well turn out to be another nasa viper.

Last edited by tomcatter; 08-16-2016 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 08-16-2016, 03:10 PM   #73
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

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thank you, lou... or whoever the mod was to merge the threads.

dan... i misread your sig as "us is an idiot". my bad. it's no wonder you always treat my visual observations with suspect

i guess you'll be involved heavily in this project to ensure accuracy? the aete was a work of absolute passion. and yes, i would personally prefer the reynolds lynx but i'll pass on this rather bland scheme though. i dunno... this could well turn out to be another nasa viper.
Time will tell.

I've already sent Hobby Master some corrections to the drawing.

No doubt Hobby Master will eventually make 425 Squadron's "Lark One/ Alouette Un Canada" and the all black EF-101.

Thus making the following photo taken in 1984 a possible collection.

Dan


From top to bottom.

409 "Nighthawk" Squadron -"Hawk One Canada"
416 "Lynx" Squadron - "Lynx One"
425 "Alouette" Squadron - "Lark One/Alouette Un Canada"
414 " Black Knight" Squadron - EF-101B "Electric Voodoo" (remained in service in the EW role until 1987).


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Old 08-16-2016, 03:43 PM   #74
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

HM might consider upping the production run on the 414 EF-101B. It is a cool livery and I can see it becoming quite popular.
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Old 08-16-2016, 07:25 PM   #75
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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I'm simply following your rule.

First is first. Period.
so next time TFM gets the news out and someone informs the forum before you, you won't sulk and dupe all the posts, even if they link to TFM? Great news Dan, glad you decided to be a grownup about it.

Nobody is obliged to post links to Hawkone's site BTW. As a software engineer it literally hurts my head to look at, and I personally couldn't give a toss if if it does shut down to be perfectly honest. It is absolute amateur rubbish with content that is bettered elsewhere.

If you and he have some commercial arrangement that's fine, but otherwise your monomania is disturbing in a person in a position of responsibility in other aspects of your life.

Why were you being such a kid? Zendocoon, OK, maybe he is a kid, but you have bored us all with your tales of involvement in Desert Storm so you must be heading for retirement age and yet here you are...

Last edited by tker76; 08-16-2016 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 08-16-2016, 07:28 PM   #76
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

What is the grey thing on the side?

Last edited by tker76; 08-16-2016 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 08-16-2016, 07:51 PM   #77
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

Something about being childish...??
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Old 08-16-2016, 07:57 PM   #78
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

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Something about being childish...??
Duly noted and edited to not sink to other's levels. Thank you for pointing out it wasn't necessary. You are perfectly correct, we should all behave like adults and I have no desire to contribute to the problem.

I hope this indicates a new attitude from you, Zendocoon, and you will cease your antics now rather than fall into hypocrisy.

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Old 08-16-2016, 08:44 PM   #79
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

Noted, even though you couldn't resist one more shot.
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Old 08-16-2016, 10:56 PM   #80
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I hope this indicates a new attitude from you, Zendocoon, and you will cease your antics now rather than fall into hypocrisy.
Zendecon's behaviour has been faultless here.

Dan
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:29 PM   #81
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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so next time TFM gets the news out and someone informs the forum before you, you won't sulk and dupe all the posts, even if they link to TFM?
tbh, this seems to be a recent development. distributor didn't disseminated information before hmc did in the past... and when they did, i think dan said that they weren't sanctioned to. no idea what that sanction is all about though. but whatever it is, the early bird catches the worm. no need to muscle your way through for the top scoop just coz you're from cnn when the independent reporter was first on the scene. just saying...
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:44 PM   #82
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Sure. Just provide Hobby Master with the name of the plastic kit that makes it.

Or alternatively send them multiple photos of the pod taken from several angles and be sure to include the exact dimensions.

Easy.

Dan
Like I said, I know it's not how it works (they rely on kits, kit decals etc.), but the prices are exoribtant for old molds (eg.) F-18. I think I was paying around $80 for one when I first started collecting in fall 2015, and now they're around $120? (production costs are rising...but at $40 more?) So I'd wish they include some extra (ordnance) with older molds, or in this case, the travel pod. (all $ mentioned in CAD)

Oh well though.

Last edited by Kangaroo; 08-16-2016 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:50 PM   #83
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Like I said, I know it's not how it works (they rely on kits, kit decals etc.), but the prices are exoribtant for old molds (eg.) F-18. I think I was paying around $80 for one when I first started collecting in fall 2015, and now they're around $120? (production costs are rising...but at $40 more?) So I'd wish they include some extra (ordnance) with older molds, or in this case, the travel pod.

Oh well though.
the cost of the pod will take the price up another notch

they did give their tomcats added ordnance without a price increase, though... so there's hope yet
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:53 PM   #84
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Like I said, I know it's not how it works (they rely on kits, kit decals etc.), but the prices are exoribtant for old molds (eg.) F-18. I think I was paying around $80 for one when I first started collecting in fall 2015, and now they're around $120? (production costs are rising...but at $40 more?) So I'd wish they include some extra (ordnance) with older molds, or in this case, the travel pod.

Oh well though.
I think this is the kind of thing you are looking for Kangaroo (albeit in the wrong scale): http://www.bnamodelworld.com/model-p...nus-arb-480036

The travelpods carried by most Western AFs are repurposed BLU-27 Napalm canisters. Some F-100 Super Sabre releases came with napalm pods, although I don't think they are the correct type.

If worst comes to worst I am sure you could buy one of these resin pods and mount it yourself (although I quite agree you shouldn't have to, nonetheless we all know ordnance is not exactly where HM ever really shines!); they are also included in one of the Hasegawa weapons sets too, I would offer mine except I plan to mount them, sorry.

Last edited by tker76; 08-17-2016 at 12:38 AM. Reason: Mentioned 1/72 versions of the part available in Hasegawa weapon pack
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Old 08-16-2016, 11:55 PM   #85
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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I think this is the kind of thing you are looking for Kangaroo (albeit in the wrong scale): http://www.bnamodelworld.com/model-p...esin-ams-32075

The travelpods carried by most Western AFs are repurposed BLU-32 Napalm canisters. Some F-100 Super Sabre releases came with napalm pods, although I don't think they are the correct type.

The resin version I linked above has 1/72 equivalents I have seen in the past (it was just the first link I found to use as an example) - if worst comes to worst I am sure you could buy one of these resin pods and mount it yourself (although I quite agree you shouldn't have to, nonetheless we all know ordnance is not exactly where HM ever really shines!).
yeah, hardly any detailing whatsoever... which befits a travel pod, no?
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Old 08-17-2016, 12:13 AM   #86
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Quote removed due to slanderous or defamatory statements made by ACpilot[/COLOR][/B]

Time for this childishness to end.

Back to discussing aircraft

Dan

Last edited by make.me.laugh; 08-17-2016 at 03:52 AM. Reason: Quote removed due to slanderous or defamatory statements made by ACpilot
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Old 08-17-2016, 12:21 AM   #87
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Time for this childishness to end.
Most ironic comment ever!

That's all I've been asking you to do all along since you started this Dan. I'm not responding to your comment point-by-point because I genuinely hope you will be happy with that as "the last word" and finally stop these personal attacks.
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Old 08-17-2016, 12:24 AM   #88
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

...and back to the lynx
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Old 08-17-2016, 12:27 AM   #89
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Originally Posted by tker76 View Post
I think this is the kind of thing you are looking for Kangaroo (albeit in the wrong scale): http://www.bnamodelworld.com/model-p...esin-ams-32075

The travelpods carried by most Western AFs are repurposed BLU-27 Napalm canisters. Some F-100 Super Sabre releases came with napalm pods, although I don't think they are the correct type.

If worst comes to worst I am sure you could buy one of these resin pods and mount it yourself (although I quite agree you shouldn't have to, nonetheless we all know ordnance is not exactly where HM ever really shines!); they are also included in one of the Hasegawa weapons sets too, I would offer mine except I plan to mount them, sorry.
I'm getting a 404 page not found.
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Old 08-17-2016, 12:42 AM   #90
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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I'm getting a 404 page not found.
Edited above, and here's the link again http://www.bnamodelworld.com/model-p...nus-arb-480036 - it was the way the BBCode markup the forum uses displayed it I think...

However, your best bet for a 1/72 is the Hasegawa weapons pack. IDK, your google-fu might be better than mine and allow you to find a 1/72 resin example instead of a whole weapons pack kit, but on the balance of probabilities I think maybe not
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:05 AM   #91
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

i dunno, tker... would you get it if it came with the pods? i'd still give this one a miss... and kick myself when i need that third mortgage hunting this down two years later
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:33 AM   #92
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

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i dunno, tker... would you get it if it came with the pods? i'd still give this one a miss... and kick myself when i need that third mortgage hunting this down two years later
TBH, it's really not my thing, but other people are free to collect what they like, just as I am free to collect what I like.

I honestly don't see myself ever deciding this was a must-have, although I suppose stranger things have happened

Who knows, maybe I'll meet a nice Canadian girl, and want one to impress her?
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:40 AM   #93
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

The MXU-648 is the travel pod id. Available in resin form from here - MXU-648 BAGGAGE POD ? MODERN HOBBIES

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Old 08-17-2016, 03:49 AM   #94
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

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The MXU-648 is the travel pod id. Available in resin form from here - MXU-648 BAGGAGE POD ? MODERN HOBBIES

Good find, I didn't have much time to look, but that's it in 1/72 without needing the weapons pack. That site has some other good stuff too
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:56 AM   #95
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Thanks for the link.
War is awful. No doubt about it. However, no one should question the bravery of those who had to interrupt their lives and sacrifice to do what had to be done. Including those brave RAAF crews.
Ooh lookie. Rhetorical games from AC. Quelle surprise.

1. nobody has questioned the bravery of the crews here or anywhere. this is a scarecrow issue that you are attempting to use an emotional wedge to get your political points home.

2. "what had to be done". here you're conflating the "duty of the crews to follow orders" with the idea that the bombings of dresden had to be done. while soldiers in all conflicts have a duty not to obey illegal orders, in the case of the dresden bombings nobody has ever suggested that the individual crews could have reasonably possessed a broader understanding of the overall picture such that they should not have flown over dresden. The crews had orders and they did them bravely and heroically, just as, fliers on all sides did.

HOWEVER, that's not the issue and you know it.

The issue is whether the bombing of dresden itself "had to be done." and, on this, serious people disagree and a very good argument can be made that it certainly did not need to be done and the overreach that made it happen went far beyond reasonable wartime operational necessity or even desirability. i happen to lean into that camp when it comes to dresden; by comparison, i find the atomic bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki to have been fully and unquestionably justified (and i've read every book on that subject 5 times over).

but, we've had this discussion already, and my thoughts were deleted in the fallout of your and UF's slapfight.

wrapping yourself in the flag and veterans and apple pie is a rhetorical con. please stop using it to push through your political points. to those of us here who are actual adults, it's as self-evident as it is dishonest, and to younger readers here it is harmful.


in other news, i'm glad some collectors are getting this voodoo. i hope it sells profitably enough to allow hm to continue to make what for me are more interesting aircraft.

Last edited by FortunateSon; 08-17-2016 at 03:59 AM.
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Old 08-17-2016, 03:57 AM   #96
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Default Re: HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "Lynx One"

The key was finding it was based on the BLU-27, then it was simply goggling - and yes lots of neat stuff on his site.

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Originally Posted by tker76 View Post
Good find, I didn't have much time to look, but that's it in 1/72 without needing the weapons pack. That site has some other good stuff too

Last edited by YOWguy; 08-17-2016 at 04:01 AM.
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Old 08-17-2016, 04:07 AM   #97
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Originally Posted by FortunateSon View Post
Ooh lookie. Rhetorical games from AC. Quelle surprise.

1. nobody has questioned the bravery of the crews here or anywhere. this is a scarecrow issue that you are attempting to use an emotional wedge to get your political points home.

2. "what had to be done". here you're conflating the "duty of the crews to follow orders" with the idea that the bombings of dresden had to be done. while soldiers in all conflicts have a duty not to obey illegal orders, in the case of the dresden bombings nobody has ever suggested that the individual crews could have reasonably possessed a broader understanding of the overall picture such that they should not have flown over dresden. The crews had orders and they did them bravely and heroically, just as, fliers on all sides did.

HOWEVER, that's not the issue and you know it.

The issue is whether the bombing of dresden itself "had to be done." and, on this, serious people disagree and a very good argument can be made that it certainly did not need to be done and the overreach that made it happen went far beyond reasonable wartime operational necessity or even desirability. i happen to lean into that camp when it comes to dresden; by comparison, i find the atomic bombings of hiroshima and nagasaki to have been fully and unquestionably justified (and i've read every book on that subject 5 times over).

but, we've had this discussion already, and my thoughts were deleted in the fallout of your and UF's slapfight.

wrapping yourself in the flag and veterans and apple pie is a rhetorical con. please stop using it to push through your political points. to those of us here who are actual adults, it's as self-evident as it is dishonest, and to younger readers here it is harmful.


in other news, i'm glad some collectors are getting this voodoo. i hope it sells profitably enough to allow hm to continue to make what for me are more interesting aircraft.
curious... why didn't the us drop the bomb over less populated areas? was the intent to shock japan into submission with the awesome might of nukes, or was it to prove the point that they could strike at the heart of japan (or both?). anyway, there are no winners in ANY war... even minor squabbles over some diecast forums can bring about scarred victims
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Old 08-17-2016, 04:41 AM   #98
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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curious... why didn't the us drop the bomb over less populated areas? was the intent to shock japan into submission with the awesome might of nukes, or was it to prove the point that they could strike at the heart of japan (or both?). anyway, there are no winners in ANY war... even minor squabbles over some diecast forums can bring about scarred victims
Were there things that could have, in hindsight, been done differently, perhaps with less loss of life? Sure. And a demonstration bomb may have, in hindsight, been one of them. Maybe.

The key things to understanding the end of the war in japan and I think the key thing to frame the appropriateness of dropping the atomic bombs are as follows:

1. the japanese imperial cabinet was in a deadlock. most notably, the incredibly powerful army minister (anami) effectively held veto power over anything that more peace/surrender faction. this was true *even after the bombing of hiroshima*, which the cabinet famously decided to repond to with "mokusatsu" - respond by non-responding. the cabinet was in deadlock, paralyzed, and prone to inaction. surrender only came after the second bomb when, the emperor, in an unprecedented move, broke the deadlock. anami went on to commit suicide and the surrender could go through, but not before some incredible drama that amounted to something like a right wing coup that went to huge lengths to prevent any attempt at surrender.

2. in addition to allied and japanese servicement, innocent civilians were still dying every day as a result of japanese aggression in places like the philippines, china, and more.

the atomic bombs broke the deadlock and broke the steady 'drip' of deaths due to the ongoing war. it also broke the back of the right wing militarists (the aforementioned coup was their one of their last gasps, essentially). the human toll was of course large, but less than individual raids on tokyo earlier in 1945 and certainly far less than an invasion of japan would have caused. it also prevented the further rape and suffering of people living in manchuria and related areas by the soviet military who were, in their brief time in the conflict, characteristically un-constrained.

to understand why there was no demo bomb - first, i described above how important both bombs were in *just barely* getting the emperor to break the deadlock and to end the war.... the bombing of hiroshima itself didn't do it. nagasaki ended up being the thing that got the emperor to act. would this had happened had there been a demo bomb? hard to say - maybe not.

at any rate, the americans could not have known in detail what was in the emperor's mind - nobody could have. even today we can at best speculate what might have happened. there were voices calling for a demo bomb in tokyo bay, but they were not in the majority.

so.. demo bomb? sure, maybe it would have worked, but we can speculate endlessly. moreover, given the way the actual surrender machinations took place, we have reason to suspect it might not have. the decision to drop it on the cities seems to have been a sufficient and necessary trigger to end the war, so its hard to judge it harshly from that perspective.

and let's not forget - the US simply did not have another bomb in theatre. the earliest another bomb could have been dropped would have been august 17 in the best case scenario. as an operational rather than ethical/moral thing, this probably informed the decision to drop on the cities, but, again, in hindsight, again, i think the decisions made were reasonable if the stated goal was "unconditional" surrender.
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Old 08-17-2016, 05:00 AM   #99
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Originally Posted by FortunateSon View Post
wrapping yourself in the flag and veterans and apple pie is a rhetorical con. please stop using it to push through your political points. to those of us here who are actual adults, it's as self-evident as it is dishonest, and to younger readers here it is harmful.
Great posts both FortunateSon, explaining the context and implications of these events (Dresden and the nuclear attacks on Japan) very clearly.

It's all "big issue" stuff rather than diecast, but I agree entirely with your assertion that trying to turn it into an issue of patriotism and individual valour is not just disingenuous, but actively harmful to those not yet well versed in the history.
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Old 08-17-2016, 05:01 AM   #100
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Default Re: Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series HA3713 CF-101 Voodoo 101043, 416 Sqn., RCAF "

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Originally Posted by FortunateSon View Post
Were there things that could have, in hindsight, been done differently, perhaps with less loss of life? Sure. And a demonstration bomb may have, in hindsight, been one of them. Maybe.

The key things to understanding the end of the war in japan and I think the key thing to frame the appropriateness of dropping the atomic bombs are as follows:

1. the japanese imperial cabinet was in a deadlock. most notably, the incredibly powerful army minister (anami) effectively held veto power over anything that more peace/surrender faction. this was true *even after the bombing of hiroshima*, which the cabinet famously decided to repond to with "mokusatsu" - respond by non-responding. the cabinet was in deadlock, paralyzed, and prone to inaction. surrender only came after the second bomb when, the emperor, in an unprecedented move, broke the deadlock. anami went on to commit suicide and the surrender could go through, but not before some incredible drama that amounted to something like a right wing coup that went to huge lengths to prevent any attempt at surrender.

2. in addition to allied and japanese servicement, innocent civilians were still dying every day as a result of japanese aggression in places like the philippines, china, and more.

the atomic bombs broke the deadlock and broke the steady 'drip' of deaths due to the ongoing war. it also broke the back of the right wing militarists (the aforementioned coup was their one of their last gasps, essentially). the human toll was of course large, but less than individual raids on tokyo earlier in 1945 and certainly far less than an invasion of japan would have caused. it also prevented the further rape and suffering of people living in manchuria and related areas by the soviet military who were, in their brief time in the conflict, characteristically un-constrained.

to understand why there was no demo bomb - first, i described above how important both bombs were in *just barely* getting the emperor to break the deadlock and to end the war.... the bombing of hiroshima itself didn't do it. nagasaki ended up being the thing that got the emperor to act. would this had happened had there been a demo bomb? hard to say - maybe not.

at any rate, the americans could not have known in detail what was in the emperor's mind - nobody could have. even today we can at best speculate what might have happened. there were voices calling for a demo bomb in tokyo bay, but they were not in the majority.

so.. demo bomb? sure, maybe it would have worked, but we can speculate endlessly. moreover, given the way the actual surrender machinations took place, we have reason to suspect it might not have. the decision to drop it on the cities seems to have been a sufficient and necessary trigger to end the war, so its hard to judge it harshly from that perspective.

and let's not forget - the US simply did not have another bomb in theatre. the earliest another bomb could have been dropped would have been august 17 in the best case scenario. as an operational rather than ethical/moral thing, this probably informed the decision to drop on the cities, but, again, in hindsight, again, i think the decisions made were reasonable if the stated goal was "unconditional" surrender.
whoa... thanks for the lecture (no, i am not being sarcastic). and i always thought that the yanks didn't have enough nukes then to be toying with demo drops... just in case the japs called their bluff. yeah, war's hell regardless.

and now, back to the lynx...

Last edited by tomcatter; 08-17-2016 at 05:05 AM.
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