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Old 03-06-2017, 08:06 PM   #251 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

RL206 never flew....from my searching. The cockpit and nose did survive for further study then to a museum.

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Old 03-06-2017, 08:09 PM   #252 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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What's probably throwing you is that the colour has seemingly been enhanced for the cover of the book and a couple details on the nose were edited out in the process.
Agreed, the possible color enhancement on the book photos might be the problem. Also, as you know, there are many computer generated, or altered, photos of the Arrow found online - most though are obvious fakes. Just for fun, here are a couple "altered" photos of 205 that look "almost" convincing... Note my favorite, the 3rd photo, "proves" that on Black Friday the dismantled Arrows must have been shipped to the US by flatbed train and/or truck, in the dark of night, and reassembled at Area 51 as Top Secret, High Altitude, Spy Planes...
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Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204-fsarrow11.jpg   Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204-fsarrow9.jpg   Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204-usafcf-105arrow05.jpg  
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Old 03-06-2017, 08:24 PM   #253 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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RL206 never flew....from my searching. The cockpit and nose did survive for further study then to a museum.

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Absolutely correct. I have visited the nose of RL 206 and it is a heartbreaking sight. They also have the wingtips from RL 203, a Pratt & Whitney J75 turbojet from one of the prototypes, and an Orenda PS-13 Iroquois engine that has been scarred by the torches to ensure it could never be used. Apparently there is a complete Orenda Iroquois engine being restored in British Columbia but I do not know its whereabouts. The Canadian Museum of Flight and Transportation in Langley, BC would likely be a good place to inquire. An Arrow nose cone and ejection seat are in the War Museum in Ottawa and two (!!) Arrow ejection seats have turned up in England. One of those may be the one on display in Ottawa.

You're also exactly right about RL 205 having only flown a single 40 minute test flight.

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Old 03-06-2017, 08:27 PM   #254 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

[QUOTE=Blues Boy;2287177]RL206 never flew....from my searching. The cockpit and nose did survive for further study then to a museum.

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This is one of my all-time favorite photos of the Arrow, "The Production Line". 206 was going to be the next step up from the others as it was being fitted with the first production Iroquois engine on Black Friday. 206 would have kicked a**!!!
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Old 03-06-2017, 08:41 PM   #255 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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This is one of my all-time favorite photos of the Arrow, "The Production Line". 206 was going to be the next step up from the others as it was being fitted with the first production Iroquois engine on Black Friday. 206 would have kicked a**!!!
You mean this engine(s) being installed into the 206 (zoom tail number)

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Old 03-06-2017, 08:49 PM   #256 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

[QUOTE=Blues Boy;2287217]You mean this engine(s) being installed into the 206 (zoom tail number)

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Holly crap, that is a freaking monster engine! Now I'm even more depressed with the demise of our beloved Arrow... Need to break something - perhaps I'll go to the basement with my viking axe and crack open some firewood!!!
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Old 03-06-2017, 09:02 PM   #257 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

My friend received his 204 model today from the Museum. It was just shipped on Friday so it made excellent time.


It is not perfect, a very very small paint is missing on the left rear nacelle and two of the small antennas on top are bent but he loves it too much to send it back and is keeping it in the box.
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Old 03-06-2017, 09:21 PM   #258 (permalink)
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Here's my take on the "mysteries" of RL202....in view of the picture below....it was plagued with problems ....pretty much the "Lemon" of the 5 flyable prototypes. I suspect it later when onto crash having the pilot to eject ergo the ejection seat surviving theory. Having crashed it became a further embarrassment with everything else going on about the program. It to was dismantled and destroyed secretly in an undisclosed location before being able to be examined by outside parties to find the true causes which would have found defects only known by the Manu.........hey this is beginning to sound like the beginnings of a quasi fictional novel...

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Old 03-06-2017, 09:24 PM   #259 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

My Arrow 204 and others

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Old 03-06-2017, 09:31 PM   #260 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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My friend received his 204 model today from the Museum. It was just shipped on Friday so it made excellent time.


It is not perfect, a very very small paint is missing on the left rear nacelle and two of the small antennas on top are bent but he loves it too much to send it back and is keeping it in the box.
Very careful touch up paint to nacelle, then gently bend the antennas, and 204 will look as good as new. My 203 arrived from New Zealand three years ago with a couple small touch-ups needed - now I forget where they were located. Those two "slightly bent" antennas on the vertical stab are a very easy fix. As mentioned, "gentle coaxing" and they can be easily straightened.
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Old 03-06-2017, 09:36 PM   #261 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

[QUOTE=cnq123;2287321]My Arrow 204 and others

Nice Arrow formation cnq123...
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Old 03-06-2017, 09:37 PM   #262 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

[QUOTE=Blues Boy;2287313]Here's my take on the "mysteries" of RL202....in view of the picture below....it was plagued with problems ....pretty much the "Lemon" of the 5 flyable prototypes. I suspect it later when onto crash having the pilot to eject ergo the ejection seat surviving theory. Having crashed it became a further embarrassment with everything else going on about the program. It to was dismantled and destroyed secretly in an undisclosed location before being able to be examined by outside parties to find the true causes which would have found defects only known by the Manu.........hey this is beginning to sound like the beginnings of a quasi fictional novel...

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Well, certainly a "mystery" novel...
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Old 03-06-2017, 09:40 PM   #263 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Here's my take on the "mysteries" of RL202....in view of the picture below....it was plagued with problems ....pretty much the "Lemon" of the 5 flyable prototypes. I suspect it later when onto crash having the pilot to eject ergo the ejection seat surviving theory. Having crashed it became a further embarrassment with everything else going on about the program. It to was dismantled and destroyed secretly in an undisclosed location before being able to be examined by outside parties to find the true causes which would have found defects only known by the Manu.........hey this is beginning to sound like the beginnings of a quasi fictional novel...

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perhaps twin vertical fins and variable geometry intakes would've solved the problem
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Old 03-06-2017, 10:19 PM   #264 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Here's my take on the "mysteries" of RL202....in view of the picture below....it was plagued with problems ....pretty much the "Lemon" of the 5 flyable prototypes. I suspect it later when onto crash having the pilot to eject ergo the ejection seat surviving theory. Having crashed it became a further embarrassment with everything else going on about the program. It to was dismantled and destroyed secretly in an undisclosed location before being able to be examined by outside parties to find the true causes which would have found defects only known by the Manu.........hey this is beginning to sound like the beginnings of a quasi fictional novel...

BB

Haha! Nice theory, but it was actually the most accomplished Arrow of the bunch. 201 also had a landing gear failure. Both planes were repaired and returned to the flight line following their incidents.
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Old 03-06-2017, 11:49 PM   #265 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

I found an interesting black and white photo of RL 208 and RL 207 under construction (view from tail end forward). Page 86 of Valiquette's: "AVRO CF-105: Canada's supersonic Sentinel".

When photos get posted in threads here (as above) is it done by providing links to a website or is it possible to just upload a jpeg or other similar scan?
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:46 AM   #266 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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I found an interesting black and white photo of RL 208 and RL 207 under construction (view from tail end forward). Page 86 of Valiquette's: "AVRO CF-105: Canada's supersonic Sentinel".

When photos get posted in threads here (as above) is it done by providing links to a website or is it possible to just upload a jpeg or other similar scan?
For me...if it's a picture in a book i have in hand....then I scan the picture to a jpg and upload to my library at the service I use Photobucket and then with the link they provide to my picture....I copy and paste the link into the image tool for posting here in the forum thread and viola! The picture shows in the post I'm composing.

Hope your not confused

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Old 03-07-2017, 02:06 AM   #267 (permalink)
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For Spooky.....here is reference that should with everything already presented should put a nail in the zigzag coffin ....below from the plastic kit 1/72 AVRO Arrow made by Hobby Craft.....note the wording pointing to the black zigzag stripe..on the orange wing tip side of the wing.(No Striping RL 204)

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Old 03-07-2017, 04:38 AM   #268 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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For me...if it's a picture in a book i have in hand....then I scan the picture to a jpg and upload to my library at the service I use Photobucket and then with the link they provide to my picture....I copy and paste the link into the image tool for posting here in the forum thread and viola! The picture shows in the post I'm composing.

Hope your not confused

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Thank you BB I understand. I'm not currently a user of a service like Photobucket. I'll need to look into that. I was hoping to be able to just upload jpegs directly.
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:47 AM   #269 (permalink)
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For Spooky.....here is reference that should with everything already presented should put a nail in the zigzag coffin ....below from the plastic kit 1/72 AVRO Arrow made by Hobby Craft.....note the wording pointing to the black zigzag stripe..on the orange wing tip side of the wing.(No Striping RL 204)

BB

Thank you BB. This certainly is helpful to me.

The ZigZag issue seems to now be resolved.

As well, the diagram seems to confirm what has already been stated in this thread, that "203" was the only Arrow to bear the Red Ensign on its tail.

However, previously posted photo links suggest the day-glow painting on plane tails evolved over time and that is not captured in the model diagram. For example, 204's "rudder" was day-glow but later, the whole tail was done in day-glow just like 203's, minus the red ensign of course.
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:55 AM   #270 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

I wouldn't advise getting historical data from a notoriously flawed model kit. For one, 201 and 204 could also be painted like 203 minus the red ensign and, in 204's case, the zig zag.

That said, the markings do all appear to be accurate for one time or another. It's just not showing all of the options.

Last edited by Zendocon; 03-07-2017 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:02 AM   #271 (permalink)
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However, previously posted photo links suggest the day-glow painting on plane tails evolved over time and that is not captured in the model diagram. For example, 204's "rudder" was day-glow but later, the whole tail was done in day-glow just like 203's, minus the red ensign of course.
Yes, exactly. 201 also got the dayglo treatment in the end.
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Old 03-07-2017, 05:11 AM   #272 (permalink)
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Agreed, the possible color enhancement on the book photos might be the problem. Also, as you know, there are many computer generated, or altered, photos of the Arrow found online - most though are obvious fakes. Just for fun, here are a couple "altered" photos of 205 that look "almost" convincing... Note my favorite, the 3rd photo, "proves" that on Black Friday the dismantled Arrows must have been shipped to the US by flatbed train and/or truck, in the dark of night, and reassembled at Area 51 as Top Secret, High Altitude, Spy Planes...
lol nice ! :-=)
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Old 03-07-2017, 01:12 PM   #273 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

At first sight of my 203, after arrival from New Zealand, the "bright" Day-Glo Orange paint just about blinded me. I was aware that "Day-Glo" paint started being used around 1958 for military experimental aircraft, target drones, chase planes, rescue aircraft and also for collision avoidance groups, but the color was still hard to get used to. I argued with myself that the color was "too bright" and would have preferred "Gloss Red". Anyway, it is what it is and I guess that's why I prefer my "winter white" 201. It's frustrating to think that had our beautiful Arrow survived we would have seen her take on "operational" paint applications. As added interest for the "Day-Glo" theme I found this model build by "Trevor" of RCAF F-86 MK.5 Sabre based at Cold Lake Alberta in early 1960's. Sabre PX-506 of CEPE (climatic) as you can see sported the "Day-Glo" paint. Not sure why the underlying color was left camo (seems a bit odd) but this Sabre is featured in Larry Milberry's book "The Canadian Sabre" (page 217). Sorry for getting a bit off topic here...
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Old 03-07-2017, 01:27 PM   #274 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

I suspect Day-Glo is also known as International Orange...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_orange

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Old 03-07-2017, 01:40 PM   #275 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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I suspect Day-Glo is also known as International Orange...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_orange

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No, International Orange is not nearly as bright. International Orange gets used for structural pieces at airports and such. You often see it on control towers or radio towers or on landing light structures.
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Old 03-07-2017, 02:30 PM   #276 (permalink)
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Z thanx for the clarification this is what is said of Day-Glo in general....
https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/e...ks/dayglo.html

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Old 03-07-2017, 04:09 PM   #277 (permalink)
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Just so people know, I do know how to correctly spell the orange colour everyone is talking about. You will likely have noticed I keep adding a, w at the end. I do this because my computer's auto correct keeps changing it to, "day-goo". I elected to add the, w to avoid all the orangey goo :-)

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Old 03-07-2017, 04:22 PM   #278 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

What is the price that one of the first 2 releases would go for on ebay? I have to acknowledge never seeing one there.
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:28 PM   #279 (permalink)
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What is the price that one of the first 2 releases would go for on ebay? I have to acknowledge never seeing one there.
I've never seen RL 203 on eBay, although I think others may have. I've only seen on RL 201 (last week) and it was in the neighbourhood of $500 USD.
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:31 PM   #280 (permalink)
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Thanks Brent.
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Old 03-07-2017, 04:32 PM   #281 (permalink)
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My very first CWH purchase. Sorry about the photo quality. I used my old Blackberry Bold 9000 to take the photo.
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Old 03-07-2017, 08:22 PM   #282 (permalink)
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there's something delightful about seeing solo models. well, i hope to someday create some area to display some models on their own... kinda like the aircraft hall of fame. some zombie apocalypse models really are best displayed that way, imo. and it makes for and easy grab-n-go when the zombies come a calling.

but yeah, brent... the bb bold doesn't do justice to the model. it looks day-glow pink! strangely, it does look good in pink!
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Old 03-07-2017, 08:24 PM   #283 (permalink)
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Just so people know, I do know how to correctly spell the oragne colour everyone is talking about. You will likely have noticed I keep adding a w at the end. I do this because my computer's auto correct keeps changing it to, "day-goo". I elected to add the w to avoid all the orangey goo :-)
Good one - at first I thought the color actually looked like Day-"Goo".
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Old 03-07-2017, 08:26 PM   #284 (permalink)
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I've never seen RL 203 on eBay, although I think others may have. I've only seen on RL 201 (last week) and it was in the neighbourhood of $500 USD.
Wow, USD $500 for 201...??? Good price - buy it!!!
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Old 03-07-2017, 08:28 PM   #285 (permalink)
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Good one - at first I thought the color actually looked like Day-"Goo".
hehehe... it does look good, though!
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Old 03-07-2017, 08:39 PM   #286 (permalink)
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My very first CWH purchase. Sorry about the photo quality. I used my old Blackberry Bold 9000 to take the photo.
Congrats Brent - and if the "Day-Goo" starts to affect your eyesight you can always set it aside and sell it for big bucks in a year or two.
Note there are only Limited Edition 1000 of 204, while there are 3500 of 201 and 3000 of 203... "204 is gold!"
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:01 PM   #287 (permalink)
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My very first CWH purchase. Sorry about the photo quality. I used my old Blackberry Bold 9000 to take the photo.
Hey Brent, don't ever worry about quality of photos. Most of us on this forum basically do "point and shoot" and are just happy to see each others model collections. Btw, if you'd like to fill 204's seats I suggest contacting Hobby Master and have them send you two CF-101 Voodoo pilot figures - they fit perfectly!
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:16 PM   #288 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Spooky View Post
Congrats Brent - and if the "Day-Goo" starts to affect your eyesight you can always set it aside and sell it for big bucks in a year or two.
Note there are only Limited Edition 1000 of 204, while there are 3500 of 201 and 3000 of 203... "204 is gold!"
makes you kinda wonder that if it's gold, why didn't cwh make more, eh? that said, production numbers have kinda dipped across the board but i'd be cautious to say that they're all "gold" except perhaps ha4303, coz it's literally the "golden hawk"
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:38 PM   #289 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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makes you kinda wonder that if it's gold, why didn't cwh make more, eh? that said, production numbers have kinda dipped across the board but i'd be cautious to say that they're all "gold" except perhaps ha4303, coz it's literally the "golden hawk"
Day-Goo is the New Gold...
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:44 PM   #290 (permalink)
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Day-Goo is the New Gold...
i kinda like the pink. it does match the arrow
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:49 PM   #291 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Bring on RL 202!
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:54 PM   #292 (permalink)
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i kinda like the pink. it does match the arrow
Well, if Day-Glo-"Pink" sells for $500 US a pop, I'm all for it...
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Old 03-07-2017, 09:58 PM   #293 (permalink)
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Well, if Day-Glo-"Pink" sells for $500 US a pop, I'm all for it...
you're all for selling, or buying?
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:07 PM   #294 (permalink)
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you're all for selling, or buying?
To clarify, SELLING, of course...
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:10 PM   #295 (permalink)
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Bring on RL 202!
Agreed, "202" should have been the one...
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:20 PM   #296 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

My impression, from discussions with CWHM, was that 204 might be the last one we see.
Would have been great to have a "split run" of 204 and 202 - say 500-700 of each...
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Old 03-07-2017, 10:25 PM   #297 (permalink)
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To clarify, SELLING, of course...
oh spooky... you disappoint me. and i thought you were a collector, not a moonlighting trader
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Old 03-07-2017, 11:01 PM   #298 (permalink)
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oh spooky... you disappoint me. and i thought you were a collector, not a moonlighting trader
No longer have the collecting bug... Selling all but my Canadian fleet - for now
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Old 03-07-2017, 11:18 PM   #299 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Mouthy... Perhaps you'd be interested in buying a Day-Goo-Pink 203?
Great deal just for you $501.00 US...
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Old 03-08-2017, 12:45 AM   #300 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Originally Posted by Spooky View Post
My impression, from discussions with CWHM, was that 204 might be the last one we see.
Would have been great to have a "split run" of 204 and 202 - say 500-700 of each...
Or a 500/500 run of 202 & 205!

They did say 201 would be the last one too. Things change. Especially if there is demand.
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