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Old 02-28-2017, 08:21 PM   #201 (permalink)
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Thumbs up Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Yesterday, I was able to buy my first Canadian Warplane Herritage Museum model. I bought the AVRO CF-105 Arrow (204). I'm so pleased! I only wish I'd known about these in time to obtain the first two models when they were issued.

While at the museum I was informed stock for this item is down to only 200 (from a 1000 issue run). I don't imagine these will be around much longer so don't wait if it is your intention to get one (or 20 :-))
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Old 02-28-2017, 09:16 PM   #202 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Yesterday, I was able to buy my first Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum model. I bought the AVRO CF-105 Arrow (204). I'm so pleased! I only wish I'd known about these in time to obtain the first two models when they were issued.

While at the museum I was informed stock for this item is down to only 200 (from a 1000 issue run). I don't imagine these will be around much longer so don't wait if it is your intention to get one (or 20 :-))
Thanks for your update Brent... I was curious how sales were going for this "third" Arrow. Good to hear you are pleased with your "RL204" purchase - she's a beauty!
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Old 02-28-2017, 09:20 PM   #203 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

My friend really wants one, so we are going to have to put it on my daughters CC since they do not take Visa Debit or Paypal.
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Old 02-28-2017, 11:21 PM   #204 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

I'm fortunate to have all three Canadian Heritage Series Avro Arrows, but in the case of RL204, of which there are only Limited Edition 1000 pieces produced, I could not control myself - I have two...
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Old 03-01-2017, 05:55 AM   #205 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

@Spooky, Nice !

I'd consider buying a "203" should I ever happen to find one that is available.
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Old 03-01-2017, 12:01 PM   #206 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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@Spooky, Nice !

I'd consider buying a "203" should I ever happen to find one that is available.
As I'm sure you know "203" is very hard to find and you'll pay dearly for one. However, there are 3000 of them out there and I found mine from a seller in New Zealand a few years ago. Keep up the search and best of luck...
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Old 03-01-2017, 03:50 PM   #207 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

203 is very hard to find. However last summer my local hobby shop, Modellers Choice, located in Hamilton ON, located about a dozen brand new 203's priced at about 200 CDN. Needless to say they sold very quickly. Derek, the store owner, said the supplier he got them from still had another dozen or so available. You could contact Derek and see if he can still get some more in. Here is a link to the store's website.

Modeller's Choice | Hobby Store | Models | Hobby Supplies
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Old 03-01-2017, 07:57 PM   #208 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

E-mailed the shop, so I will post either way if that is the case.
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:23 PM   #209 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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E-mailed the shop, so I will post either way if that is the case.
This would be a "holly grail" find if true...
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:57 PM   #210 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Originally Posted by maddogatc View Post
203 is very hard to find. However last summer my local hobby shop, Modellers Choice, located in Hamilton ON, located about a dozen brand new 203's priced at about 200 CDN. Needless to say they sold very quickly. Derek, the store owner, said the supplier he got them from still had another dozen or so available. You could contact Derek and see if he can still get some more in. Here is a link to the store's website.

Modeller's Choice | Hobby Store | Models | Hobby Supplies
Thank you very much MADDOGATC. I've sent an e-mail to Derek at the store upon your suggestion. I'll post you to let you know whether I have any success. I really appreciate your effort to help. Best.
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:58 PM   #211 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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E-mailed the shop, so I will post either way if that is the case.
Tripoli, lets keep our fingers crossed :-)
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Old 03-02-2017, 05:07 PM   #212 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Further to the "Modellers Choice" shop lead on Arrow 203s. Derek has responded and all 16 of the 203s he had last August (that is August 2016) have been sold.
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Old 03-02-2017, 05:30 PM   #213 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Further to the "Modellers Choice" shop lead on Arrow 203s. Derek has responded and all 16 of the 203s he had last August (that is August 2016) have been sold.
Not surprised but worth a try...
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Old 03-02-2017, 05:49 PM   #214 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

I've been listing some of my Corgi and HM collection on eBay and have not come across a current listing of RL203 for quite some time. Perhaps one of our forum members might be ready/willing to sell or has an extra one stored away... Also, you can go to sale/buy area of this forum and state "Wanted CWHM Avro Arrow RL203" - it's worth a shot...
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Old 03-02-2017, 06:13 PM   #215 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Spooky View Post
I've been listing some of my Corgi and HM collection on eBay and have not come across a current listing of RL203 for quite some time. Perhaps one of our forum members might be ready/willing to sell or has an extra one stored away... Also, you can go to sale/buy area of this forum and state "Wanted CWHM Avro Arrow RL203" - it's worth a shot...
I have a feeling I will need to do just as you suggest . Thank you I'd be pleased to have a look at your auctions on e-bay. What is your handle there?
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Old 03-02-2017, 06:20 PM   #216 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Bummer!
"Jeff, Sorry, we sold out of all the extra Avro Arrow diecasts that we found last year.
We were able to acquire 16 of each of 203 & 201 back in August, but they didn't last longer then a week. Good luck in your search. Thanks.
Derek
Modeller's Choice"

Just so happens 201 is currently on a popular auction site but at a tad just under 500 dollars. A bit high, quite a few watchers though.
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Old 03-02-2017, 06:52 PM   #217 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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I have a feeling I will need to do just as you suggest . Thank you I'd be pleased to have a look at your auctions on e-bay. What is your handle there?
jimmyv8888 - currently selling Corgi FW-190s and HM Spooks...
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Old 03-02-2017, 08:00 PM   #218 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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jimmyv8888 - currently selling Corgi FW-190s and HM Spooks...
Thank you. I'll have a look and likely follow your auctions.
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Old 03-02-2017, 08:39 PM   #219 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Regarding the model at the Canadian Warplane museum.

How much would it end up costing including Shipping to my friend in the GTA?
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Old 03-02-2017, 09:14 PM   #220 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Thank you. I'll have a look and likely follow your auctions.
What models are you collecting and perhaps looking for?
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Old 03-02-2017, 10:13 PM   #221 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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What models are you collecting and perhaps looking for?
I'm fairly sporadic with aviation collecting and have a clear preference for aircraft that have some significance to Canada. The "204" Arrow was wonderful to find.

A deHavilland beaver would be right up there as would a Sabre, A CANUCK :-=), Snowbird Tutor, a Starfighter (chrome finish only :-). Harvard, Tiger Moth, Chipmunk, VRA Lancaster are all also on the "to acquire" list.

However, I do make the occasional purchase outside the Canadian envelope. For instance, I couldn't resist buying the Aviation Archive Lancaster AA32608 (Guy Gibson) because of its working (to scale) spotlights.

Last edited by Brent; 03-03-2017 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 03-02-2017, 11:07 PM   #222 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Hey Brent... Interesting preferences. I'm currently downsizing my collection and only keeping the dozen or so "Canadian" pieces I have by HM. As I'm sure you know HM produced some very nice RCAF Sabres, including "Bluenose" (4305) and "Red Indian" (4309), that I expect are still easy to find and reasonably priced. I have these two Sabres and the "Golden Hawks" (4303) which I never get tired of looking at. I was fortunate to find RCAF 104 HA1011 from a fellow forum member. IMHO, this "metallic finish" Starfighter is one of HM's top production releases of all time.
Cheers!
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Old 03-03-2017, 09:00 AM   #223 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Hey Brent... Interesting preferences. I'm currently downsizing my collection and only keeping the dozen or so "Canadian" pieces I have by HM. As I'm sure you know HM produced some very nice RCAF Sabres, including "Bluenose" (4305) and "Red Indian" (4309), that I expect are still easy to find and reasonably priced. I have these two Sabres and the "Golden Hawks" (4303) which I never get tired of looking at. I was fortunate to find RCAF 104 HA1011 from a fellow forum member. IMHO, this "metallic finish" Starfighter is one of HM's top production releases of all time.
Cheers!
Thank you for the information. I'd be glad to keep in touch regarding your downsize strategy. Perhaps there will be something that will work for us. Apparently I need to make 15 posts here before I'm allowed to send private messages or reply to private messages. I may be up to 10 posts now so I'll likely make 5 quick posts over the next little while to improve my forum functionality lol. Hopefully this won't annoy people too much, especially if they understand what I'm doing.

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Old 03-03-2017, 11:59 AM   #224 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Thank you for the information. I'd be glad to keep in touch regarding your downsize strategy. Perhaps there will be something that will work for us. Apparently I need to make 15 posts here before I'm allowed to send private messages or reply to private messages. I may be up to 10 posts now so I'll likely make 5 quick posts over the next little while to improve my forum functionality lol. Hopefully this won't annoy people too much, especially if they understand what I'm doing.
Good plan and highly unlikely anyone would give you grief for your supportive input to this forum...
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:19 AM   #225 (permalink)
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Unhappy Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Hi everyone

I LOVE the shape and nature of the Avro Arrow, and being totally new to DAC collecting I jumped on the chance to acquire one of these from CWH, before this run also gets sold out. So after more than a month of waiting for the shipment to arrive from Canada, today I received the model. First impressions of the packing were: what are CWH thinking, sending a 180 CAD model with zero shock absorption? Luckily it was in one piece, nothing loose or broken. I guess the model is as tough as the real plane would have been

Needless to say I really like the construction of the model, sharp lines and solid feel everywhere. HOWEVER, it pains me to say that it has some minor but noticeable flaws. I am quite surprised to see them present, is the quality control by CWH that poor? The problems are:
- There are two dark spots on the port wing, instantly visible and an eyesore for a high-end diecast collector like me (I have been collecting mainly CMC and Exoto diecast 1/18 racecars, for those who also know about motorsports diecast).
- There are some small indentations, again on the port wing. Their visibility depends on the angle the wing is viewed at, but again, with the naked eye very visible. Rather difficult to photograph unfortunately, but I've tried my best to capture them.
- On the leading edge of the port wing and middle of the starboard one there is some scuffing/roughness to the paint. I tried to see if gentle rubbing with my soft cotton gloves (that I use for handling all my diecast) would clean it, no luck.

Here's photos of the problems:

My first attempt at shooting the beast:

2017-03-06 10.35.17 by uzairh, on Flickr



scuffing by uzairh, on Flickr

The worst are these two dark spots which simply can't be cleaned off, they seem to be painting errors, perhaps during the tampo application process:
2017-03-06 11.48.13 by uzairh, on Flickr

Here's a better angle on the dents in the port wing:
dents by uzairh, on Flickr


If this had been a $50 model I would have happily ignored the issues, however for a very expensive diecast is this something I should accept without complaint? How is the QA on the Arrows you guys have received? Are such small marks and dents common and acceptable at this price range or should I make a fuss with CWH? I am also afraid they will say "sure ship it back to us and we'll send you a replacement", and shipping using Danish post would cost more than half the price of the model!

Thanks for your advice to a newbie!
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Old 03-06-2017, 10:34 AM   #226 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

scuffing by uzairh, on Flickr
![/QUOTE]

I took a look at all three of my Arrows to see if they had these scuff marks. At first glance I didn't see anything. But upon further inspection at certain angles under certain lighting I also see differences in the paint on all three of my models. Not scuffs, just a few patches were the white gloss paint is slightly glossier than the rest of the coat. Never noticed it until I read this post. Suspect this must be a quality control problem on how the final paint or primer was applied and probably affects all the models produced.

These models I believe were manufactured by Hobby Master, so you world think the quality should be very good.

I picked up my 204 directly at the museum and inspected a number of the models before I selected mine. They of course were still in their packaging but I never noticed anything out of the ordinary with the white paint, including the one I chose. I also remember buying my Corgi VR-A Lancaster at the museum a couple of years ago. I looked at half a dozen unopened boxes before I found one without blemishes of one sort or another.

I remember from my model building days that gloss paint was the hardest to apply to a model. If it wasn't brushed or airbrushed perfectly any imperfection would show up under certain lighting. Sort of like gloss paint on drywall. Any imperfect joint shows up immediately.
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Old 03-06-2017, 11:51 AM   #227 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzair View Post
Hi everyone

I LOVE the shape and nature of the Avro Arrow, and being totally new to DAC collecting I jumped on the chance to acquire one of these from CWH, before this run also gets sold out. So after more than a month of waiting for the shipment to arrive from Canada, today I received the model. First impressions of the packing were: what are CWH thinking, sending a 180 CAD model with zero shock absorption? Luckily it was in one piece, nothing loose or broken. I guess the model is as tough as the real plane would have been

Needless to say I really like the construction of the model, sharp lines and solid feel everywhere. HOWEVER, it pains me to say that it has some minor but noticeable flaws. I am quite surprised to see them present, is the quality control by CWH that poor? The problems are:
- There are two dark spots on the port wing, instantly visible and an eyesore for a high-end diecast collector like me (I have been collecting mainly CMC and Exoto diecast 1/18 racecars, for those who also know about motorsports diecast).
- There are some small indentations, again on the port wing. Their visibility depends on the angle the wing is viewed at, but again, with the naked eye very visible. Rather difficult to photograph unfortunately, but I've tried my best to capture them.
- On the leading edge of the port wing and middle of the starboard one there is some scuffing/roughness to the paint. I tried to see if gentle rubbing with my soft cotton gloves (that I use for handling all my diecast) would clean it, no luck.

If this had been a $50 model I would have happily ignored the issues, however for a very expensive diecast is this something I should accept without complaint? How is the QA on the Arrows you guys have received? Are such small marks and dents common and acceptable at this price range or should I make a fuss with CWH? I am also afraid they will say "sure ship it back to us and we'll send you a replacement", and shipping using Danish post would cost more than half the price of the model!

Thanks for your advice to a newbie!
monsieur uzair... sorry to be the bearer of bad news but sadly military aircraft diecast is lightyears behind diecast racecars. you will be sorely disappointed if you expect the same sort of detailing and quality in military aircraft diecast as you would to a similarly priced diecast. at least you haven't had the misfortune of dealing with models with awful gaps, seam joints, smurfy colours or snoopy nose. but on the bright side, you did receive your model in one piece despite the lack of packing peanuts
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Old 03-06-2017, 12:22 PM   #228 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Well Uzair, didn't think I'd be inspecting my three Arrows this morning with a magnifying glass but here I am doing so as I respond to your post. A few of us who purchased 204 commented how surprised we were that CWHM shipped this large model in a box with no packing material. Mine arrived with damage to the model box and a bent pitot. I sent photos and a brief explanation of my concerns to CWHM and they quickly replied and immediately sent me a new model - did not need to return the original. OK, on to the paint... You are absolutely correct that the QC seems questionable for the application of white. My 201, for example, is flawless and has a high gloss finish compared with 204 that appears to have patchy "flat" areas. There is also a paint chip on the starboard side 2.5" "fence" ridge. What appears to be dust particles or tiny bubbles were found in the paint, but only noticeable by touch or with use of a magnifying glass. I'm starting to feel bad for criticizing 204 since it really is a beautiful diecast reproduction of the Avro Arrow. I expect the "real aircraft" had many more visual paint flaws than the model itself. Other than these few said QC issues the rest of the model is perfectly fine and, for the most part, exceptional. These minor QC issues I've decided to accept as "weathering" since I'm sure the real 204 had plenty of surface flaws do to the harsh Canadian winters. There is one more thing I just now noticed for the first time... 201 and 203 have a black zig-zag pattern on the upper wings that is not present on 204. I will do some research and hope that 204 did not have the zig-zag pattern - if it actually did I will be disappointed...
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Old 03-06-2017, 01:07 PM   #229 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Couldn't find a "real" photo of 204, showing upper wings surface for "zig-zag" pattern, but expect the model is historically correct since CWHM pays close attention to these details. However, attached are two photos of 204 parked outside on a cold, Canadian, winter's day. Expect the snow, wind and harsh elements would kick the crap out of any paint job...
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Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204-9521b2a18c0703265f78bebc6c867d74.jpg   Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204-4422f971ab2966ddf96500bc0f379fe8.jpg  
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Old 03-06-2017, 02:00 PM   #230 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Quote:
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Couldn't find a "real" photo of 204, showing upper wings surface for "zig-zag" pattern, but expect the model is historically correct since CWHM pays close attention to these details. However, attached are two photos of 204 parked outside on a cold, Canadian, winter's day. Expect the snow, wind and harsh elements would kick the crap out of any paint job...
Here is the closest I can zoom in on this particular outdoor shot.....the angle of the picture may be juuuuuuuuuust enough to show that there is no Zigzag perhaps? on the upper surface.

BB



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Old 03-06-2017, 02:07 PM   #231 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Hey Uzair... According to what I see in your photos of 204 the pitot is slightly bent to starboard. By simply applying gentle pressure you should be able to get it back to straight and true. Question is, after spotting such minute flaws in the paint, how could you possibly not have noticed this "glaring" pitot issue??? Just kidding, of course, and welcome aboard the weird and wacky world of the DAC Forum...
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Old 03-06-2017, 02:21 PM   #232 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

[QUOTE=Blues Boy;2286857]Here is the closest I can zoom in on this particular outdoor shot.....the angle of the picture may be juuuuuuuuuust enough to show that there is no Zigzag perhaps? On the upper surface.

BB

Nice find BB and, I agree, it sure looks like there is no "zig-zag" pattern on the upper wing surface... But there does appear to be a "small dent" in the paint just at the leading edge of the wing... Expect it's simply the result of a minor Canadian hailstorm encounter
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Old 03-06-2017, 04:24 PM   #233 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Well Uzair, didn't think I'd be inspecting my three Arrows this morning with a magnifying glass but here I am doing so as I respond to your post. A few of us who purchased 204 commented how surprised we were that CWHM shipped this large model in a box with no packing material. Mine arrived with damage to the model box and a bent pitot. I sent photos and a brief explanation of my concerns to CWHM and they quickly replied and immediately sent me a new model - did not need to return the original. OK, on to the paint... You are absolutely correct that the QC seems questionable for the application of white. My 201, for example, is flawless and has a high gloss finish compared with 204 that appears to have patchy "flat" areas. There is also a paint chip on the starboard side 2.5" "fence" ridge. What appears to be dust particles or tiny bubbles were found in the paint, but only noticeable by touch or with use of a magnifying glass. I'm starting to feel bad for criticizing 204 since it really is a beautiful diecast reproduction of the Avro Arrow. I expect the "real aircraft" had many more visual paint flaws than the model itself. Other than these few said QC issues the rest of the model is perfectly fine and, for the most part, exceptional. These minor QC issues I've decided to accept as "weathering" since I'm sure the real 204 had plenty of surface flaws do to the harsh Canadian winters. There is one more thing I just now noticed for the first time... 201 and 203 have a black zig-zag pattern on the upper wings that is not present on 204. I will do some research and hope that 204 did not have the zig-zag pattern - if it actually did I will be disappointed...
By the time "Black Friday" rolled around (Feb. 20th 1959) Weren't all of the first 5 (mrk1 prototypes) painted similarly? "Full" day-glow tail and wing tips and black "zig-zag" on the upper wings?
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Old 03-06-2017, 05:41 PM   #234 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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By the time "Black Friday" rolled around (Feb. 20th 1959) Weren't all of the first 5 (mrk1 prototypes) painted similarly? "Full" day-glow tail and wing tips and black "zig-zag" on the upper wings?
There are "graveyard" photos I've found online - will research again.
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:11 PM   #235 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Here is the closest I can zoom in on this particular outdoor shot.....the angle of the picture may be juuuuuuuuuust enough to show that there is no Zigzag perhaps? on the upper surface.

BB
I found a side profile art of all the Cf-105 Arrow's. Only RL-201 and RL-203 had the zigg zagg pattern on the upper wing. Found it from a french web site on the Arrow. Here is the link.

Le site du Avro Arrow en français: Spécifications techniques
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:32 PM   #236 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Seems rather sad to post these "graveyard" photos of the Avro Arrows, but, if interested, take a look. Perhaps if enlarged, or somehow enhanced, these photos might provide some evidence of the Arrows' color combos and zig-zag pattern on upper wing surfaces. These three photos pretty much the same "aerial" view, with the first one being B/W. It's my opinion, as seen from the bottom on up, that the photos show Arrows 205, 201, 203, and at the top 204. Keep in mind that some of the Arrows, particularly 204, for whatever reason, were painted in all three schemes at one time or another...
Attached Thumbnails
Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204-avro_arrow11.jpg   Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204-9493134_orig.jpg   Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204-30ffbf8e94217e400becd67b2c9d7e1a.jpg  
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:38 PM   #237 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

I haven't been posting here lately, but some of the historical info being posted here is incorrect. I believe RL 204 was the only Arrow to not receive the zig zag pattern on the upper wing. RL 203 was the only one with the red ensign flag on the tail, RL 202 never got painted in dayglo, and RL 204 was the only Arrow flown in the interim dayglo scheme with just the dayglo rudder. I can't say for certain, but I don't think RL 205 ever flew in the all-white scheme.

Black Friday with RL 202 in front (no dayglo). Of note: it's hooked up to a GPU. The nose cone has been removed, but it appears otherwise intact:


Black Friday as the Arrows were being cut up (RL 202 is absent which has been the source of conspiracy theories for years. No photos exist of 202 being cut up):


RL 205 with zig zag clearly visible:

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Old 03-06-2017, 06:43 PM   #238 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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I found a side profile art of all the Cf-105 Arrow's. Only RL-201 and RL-203 had the zigg zagg pattern on the upper wing. Found it from a french web site on the Arrow. Here is the link.

Le site du Avro Arrow en français: Spécifications techniques
Very cool find Maddog - that settles the "zig-zag" question...
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:50 PM   #239 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Very cool find Maddog - that settles the "zig-zag" question...
Nope.

See above. The artwork that Maddog linked to is incorrect.
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:53 PM   #240 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Actually, in that artwork link, that's an underwing view of RL 205. RL 202 may not have had the zig zag either. Trying to find an image that clearly shows its upper wing.
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Old 03-06-2017, 06:54 PM   #241 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

[QUOTE=Zendocon;2287057]I haven't been posting here lately, but some of the historical info being posted here is incorrect. I believe RL 204 was the only Arrow to not receive the zig zag pattern on the upper wing. RL 203 was the only one with the red ensign flag on the tail, RL 202 never got painted in dayglo, and RL 204 never got the zig zag. RL 204 was also the only Arrow flown in the interim dayglo scheme with just the dayglo rudder. I can't say for certain, but I don't think RL 205 ever flew in the all-white scheme.

Hi Zen... Thanks for joining in on the thread. I'm not convinced the photo you've provided of 205 (in flight) is real or computer generated. It's too bad that 205, at bottom of "graveyard" photos, has had it's wings torn off - the missing wings could have provided absolute "hard evidence"...
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:02 PM   #242 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

[QUOTE=Spooky;2287089]
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Originally Posted by Zendocon View Post
I haven't been posting here lately, but some of the historical info being posted here is incorrect. I believe RL 204 was the only Arrow to not receive the zig zag pattern on the upper wing. RL 203 was the only one with the red ensign flag on the tail, RL 202 never got painted in dayglo, and RL 204 never got the zig zag. RL 204 was also the only Arrow flown in the interim dayglo scheme with just the dayglo rudder. I can't say for certain, but I don't think RL 205 ever flew in the all-white scheme.

Hi Zen... Thanks for joining in on the thread. I'm not convinced the photo you've provided of 205 (in flight) is real or computer generated. It's too bad that 205, at bottom of "graveyard" photos, has had it's wings torn off - the missing wings could have provided absolute "hard evidence"...
That RL 205 shot is indeed a real photo and a famous one. It's also the cover of the book 'Avro Arrow: The Story Of The Avro Arrow From Its Evolution To Its Extinction' by The Arrowheads (Richard Organ, Ron Page, Don Watson and Les Wilkinson).
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:05 PM   #243 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Here's a better look at that Black Friday shot with 202 in the foreground (minus nose cone and service panel) as used on the cover of 'Destruction Of A Dream'. It does indeed appear that RL 202 does not have the zig zag pattern on the wings. So it was just 201, 203 and 205 that had it.

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Old 03-06-2017, 07:06 PM   #244 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Nope.

See above. The artwork that Maddog linked to is incorrect.
Not so fast my friend... On revisiting Maddog's provided art work, if you look closely, you'll see it's only 205 showing the "under-wing" (see gear door). All others, including 204, show "upper-wing"...
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:12 PM   #245 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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Not so fast my friend... On revisiting Maddog's provided art work, if you look closely, you'll see it's only 205 showing the "under-wing" (see gear door). All others, including 204, show "upper-wing"...
Yep. Had already corrected that. See above.
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:21 PM   #246 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

[QUOTE=Zendocon;2287105]Here's a better look at that Black Friday shot with 202 in the foreground (minus nose cone and service panel) as used on the cover of 'Destruction Of A Dream'. It does indeed appear that RL 202 does not have the zig zag pattern on the wings. So it was just 201, 203 and 205 that had it.

OK, I'm 95% with you on the remaining 205 question. The color photo of 205 (in flight) is a good one but, IMO, seems "too good" - even if presented in the "book". I'm not saying it's not the "real-deal" - I just need a bit more evidence, like a "B/W photo" of 205's upper wings. So start researching...
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Old 03-06-2017, 07:26 PM   #247 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

Here's an interesting perspective by this author in the link below.....it's unfortunate demise of the AVRO Arrow RL series....it might have proven to be a kick butt killing machine. Alas we will never know.

The Avro Arrow - One LAST thought > Vintage Wings of Canada

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Old 03-06-2017, 07:32 PM   #248 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

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OK, I'm 95% with you on the remaining 205 question. The color photo of 205 (in flight) is a good one but, IMO, seems "too good" - even if presented in the "book". I'm not saying it's not the "real-deal" - I just need a bit more evidence, like a "B/W photo" of 205's upper wings. So start researching...
From the AVRO Museum....

"Spud Potocki was the only pilot to fly RL 205 – it was ordered destroyed by government having ever only completed a forty-minute maiden flight on Jan 11, 1959"

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Old 03-06-2017, 07:37 PM   #249 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

[QUOTE=Spooky;2287137]
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Here's a better look at that Black Friday shot with 202 in the foreground (minus nose cone and service panel) as used on the cover of 'Destruction Of A Dream'. It does indeed appear that RL 202 does not have the zig zag pattern on the wings. So it was just 201, 203 and 205 that had it.

OK, I'm 95% with you on the remaining 205 question. The color photo of 205 (in flight) is a good one but, IMO, seems "too good" - even if presented in the "book". I'm not saying it's not the "real-deal" - I just need a bit more evidence, like a "B/W photo" of 205's upper wings. So start researching...
Be my guest. I'm 100% convinced. That photo of RL 205 is one of the most famous. It's everywhere. Here are several different scans, some with different cropping and one that's angled slightly:









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Old 03-06-2017, 07:42 PM   #250 (permalink)
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Default Re: Canadian Warplane Heritage CWH005 Avro Canada Arrow Mk.1 25204

What's probably throwing you is that the colour has seemingly been enhanced for the cover of the book and a couple details on the nose were edited out in the process.
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