andrewvft

Just because they look similar doesn't mean they are production pics. That being said, they put more effort in detail than most manus. As far as i can remember, they always put up early pics and they don't get updated.

tomcatter

they put artwork in their banner until the actual release. anyway, academic argument. agree to disagree

777-300ER

They changed the pictures for the VF-31 after they made the corrections. If you check their news page you'll see the difference. There is a picture of the VF-31 nose before and after they made corrections.

tomcatter

okay... i've reviewed the past posts and humbly apologise for my error. cw came up with pics in april... and thereafter revised the colours. the vf31 was only released in june, and not april. that said, if no news is forthcoming about corrective measures by cw and that the model actually gets released next month, i'm pretty sure we'll see the errors on the actual models

777-300ER

I think firefighterpilot was somehow involved with writing either an email to flying mule or CW directly. Maybe somebody who orders from flying mule should write them an email, last time it worked. And the changes in the tail should be easy to make since it only seems to be misaligned printing.

steveNfl

sent mule message about it. Still find it hard to believe ours would have this mistake as well but doesnt hurt to email people.

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steveNfl

that was fast, they are contacting CW now to make sure our copies are good to go. Theirs was a pre pro they say

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Rmac757

You do know that the option still exsists to not buy it? No diecast airplane should ever make someone this upset.

Ukrainian_Falcons

Not upset, not the way your probably thinking lol like "are you mad bro ?" type mad but more very annoyed by the apologies and seeing this level of suspect quality on a model that costs as much as this one does

Will it stop me from cracking open a few boxes at the local store ? Probably not, will it stop me from buying online (and possibly cheaper) you bet it does, too much of a risk

As to tfm saying it's a "pre pro" I don't doubt that is probably a good chance otherwise they'd have stock already but when have you ever seen a pre pro this bad ? From anyone ? Even from Falcon models ?

No one has to agree with me but this "pre pro" looks extremely rushed, this is no doubt a result from panic between the two super powers CW and HM, is CW scared about HM's quality, probably not, are they scared they'll take away some of CW's tomcat market share, you bet your sweet @$$ baby they probably would be

Checkmates and Christine are still selling fast despite all the anti HM garage going on

And probably the most concerning for any collector should be this rivalry that will just see releases rushed and panicked onto the market with half @$$ed quality, you think it hasn't happened before ? JC Wings Vs IF200 Vs Bluebox 747 panic releases and now CW Vs HM Jolly Rogers, you'd have to be darft to not think that HM forced CWs hand in announcing that anniversary Jolly Rogers sooner then they'd hoped, dare say it the varks will have been rushed I to prod just to make way for this panic release schedule

tomcatter

not really. the varks has always been an april release. so if anything, they've been on schedule.

but you're right about not buying online. i have an odd feeling that cw would've already produced quite a fair bit and these would still make it to the market before the corrected ones are delivered to the flying mule

ACpilot

If it is released in April then it's too late for any changes.

It typically takes 45 days for a diecast model to go through all the stages of production - and the end of April is only 30 days away.

Dan

firefighterpilot1

If you look at the pictures, many of them the markings look more than acceptable. The fact that you can give a pass to the GARBAGE HM has put out with their Tomcats and rant about this, is absolutely ridiculous! The GPS bump on Christine is still off center, the engine fairings are molded for an F-14B/D but painted with the outline of an F-14A (TF-30 engine) and it also has sensors underneath the wingroot that F-14D's never had. HM decides to supply Christine with almost no weapons that it would have carried on the Final Cruise. Not to mention the terrible paint quality that HM has been producing .

Exhibit A:

Note the crusty paint at the wing root. Note the incorrect landing gear doors. Note the "flat tires" on the nose gear.



Exhibit B: Notice no sensors underneath the wingroot of an F-14D (also no strakes on the gear doors)



Notice sensors on HM's F-14D and strakes on the door




Notice how an F-14B/D engine fairing is supposed to be painted. (squared off on a CW)


Notice how an F-14B/D engine is not supposed to be painted. (molded properly but painted round for an F-14A)



Because I love F-14's I am still buying Christine but I am going to have to put in the work to get it right. But, I think it is fair to ask. Where is the outrage, "bro"? CW's Tomcat looks hardly rushed compared to this FINAL product Christine. Not to mention that it is confirmed that HM is not taking suggestions on ways to correct models compared to how CW has been very receptive for the last few models. If TFM thinks they can still influence CW to make changes, that should be very encouraging. With HM what you see is what you get. Don't like it? Tough luck.

tomcatter

yes, my thoughts exactly. unless cw comes out with a notice to say the release has been delayed (by at least 45 days) due to unforeseen circumstances

tomcatter

ffp... neither is perfect. but saying that "hm is not taking suggestions on ways to correct models" is uncalled for and pretty unfair, if you ask me (ya, i know, you're not asking. but anyway...).

i think the pictures of christine proves just that. the notorious fuselage and wing sleeve gaps are conspicuously absent. yes... the off center gps bump, additional sensors and strakes on a hm model may bug you, but the cw gaps (which is harder to "put in the work to get it right"?) may bug others (and has been bugging others since time immemorial).

so the way i see it is hm does listen to fix the gaps (mould)... and cw fixes their schemes (finish). perhaps in future hm will fix your concerns. mebbe they won't for the next ten years. i don't know. that's in the future. but what i know is that cw hasn't fixed the gaps still...

...and yes, i'll still be getting the aardvarks, coz i'm a tomcat fan too

ACpilot

Additional photos are up at the Mule and it's not too encouraging.

Oh dear.

Dan

firefighterpilot1

It's not unfair, Dan is one of HM's "chosen ones" and he is the one who said that! HM has stopped listening to the so called "experts" because they have been "burned". That basically means HM has gotten annoyed by us rivet counters telling them what is wrong with their models and so if they think their model is right, that is what you're getting. CW isn't the best at responding to emails but they have been responsive to my suggestions and I'm sure I'm not the only one sending emails.

and when I say I'm putting in the work, I'm talking about possible sanding, filling and airbrushing. That is what it is going to take to fix these errors. I don't think many of you are willing to go that far on a $135 model...

firefighterpilot1

Those pictures have been up as long as CWs official photos. Notice that the mule's picture is not exactly level, first of all, and second they have already said that their model is a pre-pro. But, like I said before, there are pictures in which the angle does not look as horrendous as it is made out to be.

Ukrainian_Falcons

@ Tomcatter: No by the varks being rushed I don't me the release date, I mean the actual manufacture of the models is being rushed, as evidenced in many pics pointing out issues, manu's DO NOT produce poor quality pre pros on purpose, that would be like shooting yourself in the foot. Collectors base pre ordering and cancelling pre orders off those photos, I've heard it on here many times

@ FFP, Mate I don't go into such details as I'm not an aviation mechanic but you can bet that I'm not pleased to hear of these silly little additions and omittions either, I favour neither company, only which release is done well (fit and finish) and accurately, in most case accuracy has done to hell so its fit and finish I look at, hence why I highed the issues, no for some CW vs HM fan boy butt hurt battle but so ppl are aware of the issues, before I posted my photo, it was nothing buy cheers and at first I was like yeah baby but then I saw that tail and was like WTF ? does no one see this ?

@ Dan, pretty sure my photo yesterday proved the same thing

Finally, I would like to point out that the "pre pro" CW have posted and the "pre pro" TFM have posted are not the same model, you can clearly see and is a massive joke, on the CW photo, scratches near the stabs at the rear of the fuselage, in TFM pics, it is not present, further proof that this release will be a mixed bag of QC issues and errors IMHO and hence why I strongly recommend that we purchase these after inspection, not off the internet and sight unseen

andrewvft

Good on you supporting the local economy. I for one would rather take the risk than paying Hobbyco prices for diecast. Its worked out well for me for years.

Ukrainian_Falcons

I don't like it but I at least have the 10% discount

Normally I buy ALL my diecast online and had this been a HM release where I can see the pre pro is generally 99% what the final will be like, I take that chance

In this case, I don't know which version CW is giving us or how many of these "pre pros" hit the shelves. CW's growing trend to produce some now to make some $$ and a corrected version later is very disconcerting.

ACpilot

Looks horrendous to me!

No matter what the level of the photo - the markings are wrong.

Dan

andrewvft

They haven't done that before and theres no reason to think they would do that now. There's nothing out of the ordinary with the release that they haven't done with previous releases. You can always wait and see what everyone's reviews are when they get theres. No one is forcing you to buy on pre-order.

firefighterpilot1

Well, CW has responded to me personally and have assured me that these issues will be corrected. That terrible CW customer service strikes again!

tomcatter

i think you were missing dan's point completely. hm listened to the "experts" and ended up being "burned" makes reference to technical aspects of a particularly release, and i think it had to do with what name should or should not appear on a particular airframe at a particular time. there's no denying hm listened to collectors b¡tch¡n' about the gap since they fixed it. so yes, hm listens. they're just more discerning as to what they wanna listen to. then again, i think dan would be in a better position to shed some light on this issue.

and like i said, at least you can do some "sanding, filling and airbrushing" to correct the $135 model. i wonder what it takes to close those gaps on a $159.99 model. any idea?

eagerly waiting to see pics of your model when it comes in

tomcatter

i think it's a question of buying the actual thing than one based on pictures. we all have our preferences

excellent news! they'll still make it in time for the april 2016 release then?

Eagle_Flyer

There's no doubt the photos show a poorly made model, but we don't know if they're pre pros or when they were actually taken. The question is would the final release look like that and it can only be answered when we see the actual model.

As for CW's "customer communications", I have never received a reply to my suggestions or enquiry about corrections. The only time they have replied is when I was giving positive comments about one of their model lines.

Stein

good job guys, we've done this before and certainly CW always responded (in more than one occasion) even if that meant redoing or delaying production. TFM always get a trial copy first, so if these pics are pre production I wouldn't be surprised. But the important thing for us is to let CW know about these errors. They usually don't reply when there is nothing wrong with the model.

firefighterpilot1

I have no idea, that was not mentioned to me. I don't know that CW has ever been on time with a model release and with all the outrage, I'm guessing most of you would accept a delay in order to get a corrected model.

firefighterpilot1

Apparently some white glue, a small bottle of paint and a fine tip paint brush will do the trick (which was what some did to fill the gaps on HM's first F-22 model...) So, less than $10?

tomcatter

yes, i wouldn't mind waiting

ahh... ok. i'm good. doesn't bug me enough to make me wanna remedy that. besides, i'm too busy trolling da.c

Stein

i think an additional sensor is as bad as a missing one. CW does have a missing sensor on the pilot's right side in of all their models.

ACpilot

I never said I was a "chosen one" and I find your suggestion that "I said so" insulting.

I am a former Military Pilot and currently fly 777s for a National Airline - as a result I may have some experience and limited expertise to be able to offer some advice to manufacturers willing to listen.

I fail to see why you adamantly defend something that is clearly wrong (misaligned tail markings not horrendous - just the angle of the photo). This is more of a hindrance than a help.

I also fail to see when we are discussing a Century Wing model and its' errors - why you go on the warpath against HM. It's not germane to the subject being discussed and simply makes you appear more as a Century Wings "Fan Boy" than anything else.

In the past, Hobby Master was " burned" by a so called expert who sent William an undated photo regarding an A-26 Release. Hobby Master unfortunately listened and made a correction that actually turned out to be an error. The model was originally correct. As a result William listens to trusted advice. Photos backed up by multiple references - not just "X" is not right statements or random photos. Anyone can send corrections to Hobby Master - just make sure your information is correct, reliable and demonstrably so. Above all, act professionally and courteous and you will likely be listened to.

I'm hopeful that Century Wings will make the corrections needed on this release (there's not a lot of time left to release in April). However, they only seem to take input from distributors and the occasional collector compared to Hobby Master. This model does seem "rushed" (even panicked) no doubt due to the new situation of having some actual competition from HM. This is not the standard we usually have come to expect from CW in the past.

Dan

Ukrainian_Falcons

Totally off the topic but what did you fly in the military Dan ? C-130 ?

ACpilot

Old "office photos" from my KC-130.

Enforcement Iraqi "Southern No Fly Zone".

Dan

tomcatter

stand down, soldier. ffp perceives you to be the chosen one because hm listens to you (and not him ). he didn't mean you said you were the chosen one... but that you said hm no longer listens to (unreliable) information. that's all there is to it.

ffp... we don't raise issues to run down a particular manufacturer, but we do wish to see our models to be as accurate as we can. almost always i just shrug my shoulders at the end of the day and still get the model anyway.

supersphinxman

Cool pics Dan.

tomcatter

love the view from your back office

Rmac757

Honestly UF, I get a kick out of your posts. They keep things lively on here. I hope this release works out. This is one of the Tomcats on my wish list. I usually display by aircraft type but this one would probably look good next to the HM Aardvark.

ACpilot

Definitely more than one model here.

Flying Mule photo does not have the aircraft number on the rudder.

Century Wings photo shows the number added but the same askew tail markings. Both have rather poor orange paint application to the top of the vertical tail.

I don't think Century Wings has ever presented their product this poorly before.

Dan

steveNfl

Good and bad news. Good news is its getting fixed and our copies will have the following reworked, the bad is this will push back release till May.

Hello again Steven,

We’re happy to tell you that Century Wings reported back to us that the issues in question will be fixed before production. As a result, we’ll be bumping the expected arrival date back from April to May but that seems like a small price to pay for getting it right. Specifically, they will address the following:

1) Level the “NH” lettering and Aardvark mascot
2) Add a back demarcation line along the bottom of the orange fin tip
3) Add the black “05” to the top of the rudder (already fixed on the pre-pro shown on the Century Wings website)

Thank you once again for your assistance and support. Constructive criticism helps make things better for all of us!

Sucks that we have to wait longer, but its good that they will be fine when we get them.

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Rmac757

Dan, thanks for posting the "work" shots. They're great. I can honestly say that I've been pretty lazy about that through the years. Trying to make more of an effort as I think we can take the view for granted at times.

Rmac757

Nah Steve.....that's good news. We want this one to be done right.

steveNfl

true, I just hope they fix these things and leave it be and don't go about changing colors and such. Love the way it looks. It is surprising that CW after all these years of making cats was really going to release this guy with those issues. Thanks to everyone who picked it apart and helped us take the goggles off, what a shame that would have been to receive this beauty all messed up.

I also wonder how long the Mule has had their pre pro model though? Obviously longer than the current CW on their site....interesting

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Eagle_Flyer

It's good CW are listening to TFM but yes it is surprising for them to release a model in such a poor condition and if CW hadn't been informed the outcome would have been quite bad.

Ukrainian_Falcons

Nice photos Dan, have you suggested those to HM ? Just kidding

Ok people, what did we just learn ? That maybe alittle criticism is not a bad thing, I think we all need to group hug

Yep, gladly wait till May so they can sort this out. Great work Stevo (thumbs up)

Ukrainian_Falcons

Lol think of me a 50% serious collector and 50% joker

Yes this one I had my eye on since it was announced, I prefer the hi viz navy AC so I was very disappointed to see these initial photos

It's defo made me think about getting the varks spook even though I got the Tophatters already, wallet is not going to be happy

Shawn507

Anyone know which orange they are going with?

firefighterpilot1

I didn't mean anything by saying you're a "chosen one", all that means is that you seem to have a relationship with Hobby Master/ William that the vast majority of us do not have. I understand you've actually met William in person, correct? I was simply implying that if anyone has a credible information regarding Hobby Master, you would probably be as credible as any other.

I really am not concerned if I come off as a fanboy because if anyone were to look at the two objectively, CW has been constantly berated for years over price, purported QC issues, a lack of customer service etc. while HM's models are handled with kid gloves. HM's prices have skyrocketed compared to how CW's prices have increased over the last several years and yet HM continues to make very significant mistakes on models. There used to be a much wider gap in prices between CW and HM. If they were still around FOV prices, these mistakes would be forgivable but $15 is not a significant gap, especially when CW offers more with their models. (stencils on ordinance/ targeting pods, more ordinance)

Admittedly, I don't follow EVERY HM model (I had no idea about the A-26) but I have followed the developments in many and the outrage at HM's mistakes simply does not compare to what CW gets. I see very few threats to cancel pre-orders or people mocking HM as an "elite manufacturer" that puts out rushed models. By the rate that HM cranks out models with significant errors, there have been more than a few rushed HM models.

Yes, the markings are not the exact angle as in real life but I didn't see it as completely ruining the model. If the only photos we had of the model were the ones I reposted, there would be no talk about the angle of the markings because you simply cannot tell. Which means, in my opinion, that it is not a horrendous error. The only thing I have seen from HM that has ever gotten a reaction like that the F-15 blue paint. I hardly consider these markings to be at that level.

Despite being a "fanboy" I try to look at everything objectively and without bias. I always try and give credit where credit is due, even to HM. I just received my S-3 Viking model and I think it is fantastic! It is easily my second favorite model of all time (even with the issues with the main gear doors).

steveNfl

top one is old, bottom is revised. Should be bottom just fixed

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ACpilot

Good news.

Happy to accept the delay in order for CW to get the model right.

Dan


Now I feel confident to order this F-14 to go along with HM's F-4 Aardvark.