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Old 02-07-2015, 02:22 AM   #1
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Default Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Originally posted under April 2015 Hobby Master Releases.

Hobby Master 1/72 Air Power Series
HA4551
McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle
AF 86-0156/LN, Capt. Jeff Hwang, March 26, 1999
Operation Allied Force "Double MIG Killer"

April 2015 Release as announced on Hawkone's website.

Hobby Master 1-72 HA4551 McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle AF 86-0156/LN, Capt. Jeff Hwang, March 26, 1999 Operation Allied Force Double MIG Killer

Dan



Last edited by ACpilot; 02-07-2015 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 02-07-2015, 02:42 AM   #2
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

I thought I would bring collectors up to date as there have been several suggestions regarding this release that Hobby Master has listened to.

First of all, the colour will not be the same as the previous F-15D releases - no hint of blue.

Second one of the identifying features of late model F-15Cs are the IFF antennas above and below the nose just behind the radome. These will be added to the model as seen on the tooling below.





Next, the UHF Aeriel on top of the fuselage (behind the cockpit) will be moved further aft where it should be on all F-15s.

Additionally, I have heard back from William and Hobby Master will provide four AIM-7s and four AIM-120s for the four Fuselage stations.

That way collectors can arm the Fuselage stations as per Operation Allied Force (Sparrows forward and AMRAAMS rear) or all Sparrows or all AMRAAMS.

They will have to be attached by the collector though.

Finally, another collector has reported that the external fuel tanks will have the panel lines reduced.

Dan


Below: From an article on Operation Allied Force - World Air Power Journal Vol.38 1999
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Old 02-07-2015, 08:19 AM   #3
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Finally a single seat USAF eagle. And even better, it's a mig killer. I do hope they get the colors sorted out for this one. Their 2 D releases that were in mod eagle scheme is still pretty bluer than usual. Fingers crossed that this one gets improved. On a side note, The last 2 F-22 releases were really really bad. As in really bad. The colors are way off. I think they followed FOV's color blue print for those cause it looks exactly like an FOV effort
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Old 02-07-2015, 09:06 AM   #4
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

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Originally Posted by tim_1/72 View Post
FThe last 2 F-22 releases were really really bad. As in really bad. The colors are way off. I think they followed FOV's color blue print for those cause it looks exactly like an FOV effort
Have you ever seen photos of the real planes you are talking about? Raptor 02 and Spirit of America were one of the first pre-pro batches of the plane, and as such, had different color scheme than the Raptors that are flying today.



This is Raptor 02 in a bright sunlight, which makes the colors lighter than they actually are, but I hope you get the idea...The first planes had much more pronounced difference in colors than the metallic looking ones now in service
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Old 02-07-2015, 09:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

William also decided that the best scheme for this model was the one where there were both flags applied.



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Old 02-07-2015, 09:57 AM   #6
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Good for him!
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

The colors are still very badly off on the new HM F-22's.

"This is Raptor 02 in a bright sunlight, which makes the colors lighter than they actually are, but I hope you get the idea...The first planes had much more pronounced difference in colors than the metallic looking ones now in service"

What you don't see in that photo is a a high contrast, dark to light" in the sunlight like you do on the Newer painted F-22's. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. that dark to light contrast you are seeing on the newer Hm F-22's does not exist even in the worst extreme lighting conditions, yet in normal lighting conditions the newer painted HM F-22's have that high contrast contrast and it does look terrible. As noted above poorly done like the FOV models.

Those new HM F-22's are going to tank because HM has moved to an unrealistic color scheme and does not want to listen yet again. Its a shame, I have bought many of the HM F-22's but won't touch the new ones because with the current colors, the look terrible, again, just like the cheapened FOV models. IT LOOKS GOSH AWFUL. Do what HM did with the new Japanese F-15 model on the colors on the F-22's.


HM's essentially looks like this:




In the above aircraft shot, you see the colors BLEND in the HARSH light.
In the model picture above, you see a stark difference between the coloring of dark grey to lighter grey base coloring in normal lighting. The darkened area sticks out against the base coloring.

In aviation livery schemes, you don't want a bullseye on your aircraft. you want the colors to blend with a breakup of coloring to melt into the other elements of clouds and sky.


LISTEN CAREFULLY HERE NOW.

The HM F-15 does not need to eliminate the blue tint, it needs to TONE DOWN the content AND thereby contrast of the blue in the secondary camouflage paint color.

If that concept is too tough to handle, do what they did with the Japanese F-15, at least the contrast was great, that is what HM should be doing with the F-22's as well which do have an all grey color scheme.
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Old 02-07-2015, 03:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripoli View Post


LISTEN CAREFULLY HERE NOW.

The HM F-15 does not need to eliminate the blue tint, it needs to TONE DOWN the content AND thereby contrast of the blue in the secondary camouflage paint color.

If that concept is too tough to handle, do what they did with the Japanese F-15, at least the contrast was great, that is what HM should be doing with the F-22's as well which do have an all grey color scheme.
The following is the opinion Gary Stedman (a published Aviation photographer who has photographed the Lakenheath F-15s for over 20 years) and has weighed in regarding the F-15 colours.

The colours; lets clear this one up now. They do not have a 'bluish' tint in certain light conditions. I've watched/photographed the 493rd since they became a F-15C/D outfit twenty years ago. Dawn, dusk, overcast, sunshine, it doesn't matter - THEY ARE NOT BLUE. Get the colours right please.

Some of his photos can be seen in this thread here.

http://tdhp.fr.yuku.com/topic/19407/Lakenheaths-finest

Dan


Last edited by ACpilot; 02-07-2015 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 02-07-2015, 05:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

As a pilot myself who has flown around these I can and have said the same thing in the past and had included hangar photos to make my point only to get shot down by members here about it.
However, there is an "air superiority blue" paint that is used on some aircraft. You can "google" it.
I believe the blue tint you see in photos is when the paint wears down and with moisture gives it a blue tint in certain light with a sky blue background. Never the colors you see on the photos like the NASA aircraft. Again, the only way to get those colors is digital photo enhancement. The reason I posted the hangar photos versus the same aircraft and gear outside looking a very different tint. I have argued this point until... well, I was blue in the face about it. So, do you see actual "blue" in photos, yes. Is it painted like that, no.
Too bad no one wanted to admit that earlier, would have save HM from making the terrible paint job on the NASA and MO Mountain models.
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Old 02-07-2015, 07:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

I have a dum question, what is the colour designation and description the USAF uses when ordering the paint through the Logistic system??
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Whatever it's called. Blue, grey(or gray?), it's still pretty off. The last thing we want now is to give William the message that the colors currently are are alright when theyre not. It's still pretty off.



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Old 02-07-2015, 10:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

I think thats universally acknowledged Tim. Its also acknowledged that HM are changing it.

So in the context of the discussion/debate over grey/blue, it would be helpful to know what the actual user calls it.

Bearing in mind the debate above...I am unsure whether Witty has got it close either.
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Old 02-08-2015, 04:30 AM   #13
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

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Originally Posted by PBRStreetgang View Post
I have a dum question, what is the colour designation and description the USAF uses when ordering the paint through the Logistic system??
I believe that the "Mod Eagle" scheme, which is what all USAF A-D Eagles have worn from the early 90's onward, is technically supposed to be FS36176 Dark Grey over FS36251 Medium Grey.
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:19 AM   #14
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

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Originally Posted by RhinoF4 View Post
I believe that the "Mod Eagle" scheme, which is what all USAF A-D Eagles have worn from the early 90's onward, is technically supposed to be FS36176 Dark Grey over FS3625 Medium Grey.
Correct darker shade is a blue grey but not an air superiorty blue.
Witty's eglin and oregon ANG releases are pretty good representations of the mod eagle scheme.
HM should certainly be looking to achieve colours like those on their mod eagle schemes.
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:49 AM   #15
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Here are some pics of the Modelled Airframe i took at Lakenheath i would of preferred the Double green stars rather than the Flag what is your opinion.
Here are the Pics.









2 of My Witty Example which i think is Very Good wondering how it will compare to HM when Available ?





Last edited by X29 JET; 02-08-2015 at 07:33 AM. Reason: ADD PICS
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Old 02-08-2015, 07:22 AM   #16
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

The 2 green stars would be better.

I would stick with the Witty Eagle for now, it look pretty darn good to me
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Old 02-08-2015, 07:37 AM   #17
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

The new scheme (double flags) is representative of how the aircraft appeared in early 2000. I think that the flags add a unique appeal to the aircraft that the stars wouldn't do to the same extent.

The majority of DHP members preferred the scheme with the flag(s) over the green stars. It was a simple case of majority rules.

There will most certainly be more F-15C's with the green kill stars. If you don't like this one, just wait for them, then.
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Old 02-08-2015, 02:04 PM   #18
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

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Originally Posted by Aardvark View Post
The new scheme (double flags) is representative of how the aircraft appeared in early 2000. I think that the flags add a unique appeal to the aircraft that the stars wouldn't do to the same extent.

The majority of DHP members preferred the scheme with the flag(s) over the green stars. It was a simple case of majority rules.

There will most certainly be more F-15C's with the green kill stars. If you don't like this one, just wait for them, then.
I dont think HM will bring out 2 LN Eagles if they do it will be a few years away i would think.
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Old 02-08-2015, 03:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

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The new scheme (double flags) is representative of how the aircraft appeared in early 2000. I think that the flags add a unique appeal to the aircraft that the stars wouldn't do to the same extent.
Agree, the double flags will make this one a tad unique. Happy with that decision from HM.
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Old 02-08-2015, 03:54 PM   #20
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Thumbs up Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by RhinoF4 View Post
I believe that the "Mod Eagle" scheme, which is what all USAF A-D Eagles have worn from the early 90's onward, is technically supposed to be FS36176 Dark Grey over FS36251 Medium Grey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomflanflinger View Post
Correct darker shade is a blue grey but not an air superiorty blue.
Witty's eglin and oregon ANG releases are pretty good representations of the mod eagle scheme.
HM should certainly be looking to achieve colours like those on their mod eagle schemes.
OK thanks Lads.
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Old 02-08-2015, 07:30 PM   #21
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

ived always loved my Eglin F-15C from Witty......
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:22 PM   #22
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Green stars made sense for Iraqi/Libyan kills given the correlation between Islamic countries and the color green...don't understand the logic for Serbian kills, given that Serbia was fighting Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo. Serbian flag makes more sense.
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Old 02-08-2015, 10:44 PM   #23
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

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Green stars made sense for Iraqi/Libyan kills given the correlation between Islamic countries and the color green...don't understand the logic for Serbian kills, given that Serbia was fighting Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo. Serbian flag makes more sense.
It is more likely that "green stars" are more of statement of politically correctness - given that Iraq is now an ally for instance.

Dan
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Old 02-08-2015, 11:48 PM   #24
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

[QUOTE=ACpilot;1151727]I thought I would bring collectors up to date as there have been several suggestions regarding this release that Hobby Master has listened to.


Hats off to HM. Now fix that nasty ring around the tip of the nose!
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Old 02-09-2015, 07:50 AM   #25
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

At least Witty Eagles had the better drop tanks. But that canopy is a sore point.
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:28 AM   #26
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Yes they must change the drop tank.
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Old 02-10-2015, 11:46 AM   #27
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

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Yes they must change the drop tank.
If you read Post#2 again, you'll see that a collector has heard from Hobby Master that the panel lines on the tanks will be reduced.

Dan
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Old 02-10-2015, 04:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

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If you read Post#2 again, you'll see that a collector has heard from Hobby Master that the panel lines on the tanks will be reduced.

Dan
They need removing not reduced,i have never seen a real F-15 tank like those
Never seen a kit one like that either!
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:53 PM   #29
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard from Rotterdam View Post
At least Witty Eagles had the better drop tanks. But that canopy is a sore point.
its only the the F-15D of witty that has a problems with the canopy and not the single seat F-15C........ anyway, i got the F-15D too....but got no real problems....displaying it with open canopy.....who will notice it ?....
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:29 AM   #30
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

I heard back from William that the model will have the correct 'narrow' HUD and not the wider F-15E HUD.
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Old 02-11-2015, 05:52 AM   #31
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

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its only the the F-15D of witty that has a problems with the canopy and not the single seat F-15C........ anyway, i got the F-15D too....but got no real problems....displaying it with open canopy.....who will notice it ?....
No it's the single seaters as well. Compare the back of the canopy of the real thing and the Witty models in the pictures in this topic. You'll notice that on the real F-15 the back of the canopy runs in a straight line down to the upper fuselage, where on the Witty model there is a curve, almost like a bulge.
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Old 02-11-2015, 05:54 AM   #32
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

If you read Post#2 again, you'll see that a collector has heard from Hobby Master that the panel lines on the tanks will be reduced.



Great news for the drop tanks,I'll be aware of that.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:48 AM   #33
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard from Rotterdam View Post
No it's the single seaters as well. Compare the back of the canopy of the real thing and the Witty models in the pictures in this topic. You'll notice that on the real F-15 the back of the canopy runs in a straight line down to the upper fuselage, where on the Witty model there is a curve, almost like a bulge.
You are quite right,that is because the designer comprimised the tooling by not making two different spine areas ie specific A/C and D/E shapes
The canopy frame painting was always too thick on the witty models and on the D/E the windshield is too shallow along with the main canopy being off,witty didnt use the same windshield part from the single seaters
I have alot of the witty eagles and still rate them highly,infact with some new canopies and a few other bits they would be far better than the HM
Lots more metal,better landing gear,seats,pitots,tanks,missiles.
A real pity that witty didnt fix the canopy shapes because the design and fit
certainly make the HM look a step backwards in its design,fit and finish for a 2014 tooling.
I would have hoped HM could have got things right from the start
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Old 05-20-2015, 02:29 PM   #34
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Final Product Photos are up on Hawkone's website.

Hobby Master 1-72 HA4551 McDonnell Douglas F-15C Eagle AF 86-0156/LN, Capt. Jeff Hwang, March 26, 1999 Operation Allied Force Double MIG Killer

Dan


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Old 05-20-2015, 04:33 PM   #35
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Five minutes checking.


No blue.
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Old 05-20-2015, 04:58 PM   #36
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

I wanted this one but no sale on account of the colours. Glad they fixed the tanks though, that's a big improvement.
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:22 PM   #37
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

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Originally Posted by sniperUK View Post
Five minutes checking.


No blue.
Mate I went to the website and it says Ocean Grey. At first I was thinking of the same thing, but the more I look at these camouflage on-line, the more I am convince that this camouflage is closer to the real thing when seen in real life than it is on photos, possibly due to one source lighting? instead of natural lights? (Not a photographer LoL). Point is, it might not be 100% exactly but I would say close to it (pleas just search around with F-15C in this cammo), but this approximation of paint schemes and all details are part of the hobby right? Given the fact I am sure that HM does not get the Manufacturing detail of the paint profile of an F-15C in the first place. So I give a thumbs up to William for this model. Props to him.

Just one thing though, are those AMRAAMS supposedly glued to the fuselage pylons?

Mic.
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:28 PM   #38
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

My photos not internet ,untouched.



Last edited by sniperUK; 05-20-2015 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 05-20-2015, 05:44 PM   #39
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

I'll buy one when they stop painting them blue.
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:48 PM   #40
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

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I'll buy one when they stop painting them blue.
Same here. I was hoping for better accuracy on this one.
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:03 PM   #41
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

tanks fixed but that blue is terrible!
Nothing like mod eagle scheme!
Witty/sky guardian oregon eagle colours are more accurate than this effort!
Its a blue grey HM not pastel blue
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:35 PM   #42
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

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Just one thing though, are those AMRAAMS supposedly glued to the fuselage pylons?
I'd imagine they're like the F-18 Hornet fuselage AMRAAMs where there's a tiny pinhole in the fuselage of the aircraft, and one of the fins on the missile has the pin to fit inside.
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Old 05-20-2015, 07:45 PM   #43
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

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Just one thing though, are those AMRAAMS supposedly glued to the fuselage pylons?

Mic.
Both AMRAAMS and Sparrows are provided so as to accurately reflect the loadout used during "Allied Force".

Dan


Below: From an article on Operation Allied Force - World Air Power Journal Vol.38 1999
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:32 PM   #44
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Except for that missiles on the model are AIM-120s.

http://hobbymastercollector.com/files/HA4551FP-5.jpg

Last edited by Jumper; 05-21-2015 at 08:04 AM. Reason: not so giant photo
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:57 PM   #45
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumper View Post
Except for that missiles on the model are AIM-120s.
In that photo they are, but I don't think you saw all the photos on Hawkone's website.

As stated earlier, the collector positions the missiles.

In the photo below can be seen Sparrows on the left, AMRAAMS on the right.

By the way can you guys resize your photos before posting - kind of annoying.

Dan


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Old 05-21-2015, 02:49 AM   #46
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

I have heard back from William regarding the blue colour.

Hi Dan,

We have lightened the dark grey for about 15% for the HA4551 comparing to HA4504.

Please see attachments.

William


HA4551





HA4504





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Old 05-21-2015, 04:00 AM   #47
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

I am still sitting on the fence with this one, but ACpilots' latest post has almost convinced me to give this one a go. I was initially disappointed due to the colour of the blue shade, but it's definately better than the previous releases.
I went from three orders from this batch of releases (F-15, F-35, RB-26) to one only (the F-35 - knowing the furor over that one!) due to the issues with the other two models! The F-15 may have got a reprieve now.
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Old 05-21-2015, 04:16 AM   #48
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACpilot View Post
We have lightened the dark grey for about 15% for the HA4551 comparing to HA4504.
Does he / do you mean blue?

Personally, I would like a very pale blue to be used instead, like this:



Also, thanks to William for getting the photographer to include some more photos of each subsequent model.

I asked him to do so a few weeks ago.



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Old 05-21-2015, 08:24 AM   #49
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

I'll have to see it in real life to make up my mind about the blue/grey. These pictures don't have the best lighting.

One thing I do not understand though, is why it is so difficult to obtain the exact colour. These Federal STANDARD colours should not be too hard to reproduce or procure I think?
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Old 05-21-2015, 11:43 AM   #50
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Default Re: Hobby Master HA4551 F-15C Eagle Operation Allied Force "Double Mig Killer"

i think jeff's (tripoli) expression when he sees these photos will be a classic instagram moment. just wondering what shade of blue he's face will turn into...
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