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Old 09-07-2014, 05:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Air Force 1 J8 and J10

Hello All,

There's been a lot of AF1 bashing in the threads recently. Much of it is probably justified, though as far as the P-61 goes I continue to have it on my "buy" list, even if it is likely overpriced as far as price/quality goes.

However, two other AF1 releases intrigue me: the AF-1 Chengdu J-10 (top) and the Shenyang J-8B (bottom)





In my view, these are relatively important aircraft-- or at least the J8B is, even if they are technologically a bit behind the times. The J8B has been described as basically the epitome of 1960s mig-21 technology delivered almost 30 years too late and the J-10 as something that would have made a mediocre 4th generation fighter even if it was delivered 20+ years earlier. Still, they form an important part of a major world air force and define a major epoch of its development (and also the J8B was part of the famous Hainan Island incident, piloted by the memorably-named Wong Wei).

Anyway, the AF1 models don't look that bad. The J8B in particular looks fit for purpose, at least from the photos. The J10 looks a bit toy like with the articulated (?) leading edges and a canopy that they couldnt even get to close correctly for the promo shots, plus its general "gaincorp" like finish.

Anyway, those are my impressions based on the photos. I was wondering if anybody has gotten their hands on these and could give a more detailed analysis. As it stands, I hope to pick up the J8B cheap one of these days.

Incidentally, the J-10 features prominently in the Chinese movie "Jian Shi Chu Ji", which has been translated as "Lock Destiantion" but has also been promoted as "Sky Fighters" (not to be convinced with an almost equally bad french movie of the same english title). This is on one hand a comically bad movie with a ridiculous plot, tv-quality special effects, and cardboard characters (plus some blatant ripoffs of top gun cinematography in places). On the other hand, it provides some interesting insight into just how military hero worship is done in china, what they were allowed to do in terms of dramatization and tension, and what some of the cartoonized virtues of chinese aviators are, at least in the popular imagination. It rates a lowly 3.8 on IMDB, which may be a bit generous.

You can watch the whole movie at the youtube link below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5HGRStHkp4
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Old 09-07-2014, 06:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Air Force 1 J8 and J10

I want to be interested in these models, but the pictures don't impress me. The gap-ish leading edge slats and ill-fitting canopy on the J-10 are definite turn-offs, and sadly, the J-8 isn't very interesting visually. Most Chinese aircraft until recently were either direct-from-Russia sales or poor imitations/licensed manufactures from the mediocre Chinese aircraft industry. I'm sure as time goes on their planes will get much better, but for now, I have but one Chinese fighter, a Gaincorp Su-27 which obviously isn't even indigenous.
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Old 09-07-2014, 07:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Air Force 1 J8 and J10

Gospodin,

I get your point. However, there is one chinese aircraft that i think is quite interesting -- hm2405 which i think is the best of the hm mig15s... Albeit this is a chinese mig15 in nkaf markings. Id get the more recent camo chinese-liveried mig15 too if i found it cheap, but didnt, and my collection can do without it. I also have the chinese mig21 err j-7 which is a nice enough model, but in the first 10% of my collection that id sell if i really had to.

Anyway, the chinese swear up and down that the j10 is not a iai lavi derivative.. Ya, right. They also pretend that the j11 is not a su27 copy. The institutional lying by china in this is just shocking, though given current evemts as the victim here is russian sukhoi, im not exactly losing sleep over it.

I agree with your comments on the j10 model. However, the j8b looks pretty tight, and, as i said, if itsout there cheap, i may go for it.

Incidentally, unless you consider the chinese su27 copy a success, i think its pretty fair to say that china really has had zero really successful indigenous front line military aviation programs. Knowing nothing else, this makes me highly skeptical of the potential overall quality of the j20 5th gen program. But, who knows--8% year on year gdp growth for over a decade may do the trick.

Just reminded myself that i have the guidebook from the plaaf museum here from a visit about 8 years ago... Nice museum worthy of a visit.
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Old 09-07-2014, 07:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Air Force 1 J8 and J10

I'm curious as well. Surely somebody has one of these floating around in their collection? I took a chance on the J-15, its hard to find a new 1/72 diecast model for $47.00 so I don't see my self having any buyers remorse in picking it up. I'm itching to see what it looks like though should somebody receive it before it comes in.
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Old 09-07-2014, 08:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I also have decided to withdraw from Vigorous Dragon purchase: too fat compared to real plane, chromed nozzle covers, wrong nose colour (should be black or very dark grey) kill it for me. So far Air Force 1 is quite a disappointment for me.
And J8B has quite a boring scheme, unfortunately.
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Old 09-07-2014, 08:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I also have decided to withdraw from Vigorous Dragon purchase: too fat compared to real plane, chromed nozzle covers, wrong nose colour (should be black or very dark grey) kill it for me. So far Air Force 1 is quite a disappointment for me.
And J8B has quite a boring scheme, unfortunately.
the only difference here is there is no other option. Normally I'd agree 100% with you. Had these been F-14's, 16's, 18's, 22's etc I wouldn't give them a second glance. But I'm really on a Sukhoi kick at the moment and its keeping me interested in the hobby. I have enough of the US aircraft, especially the F-14.
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Old 09-07-2014, 09:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Air Force 1 J8 and J10

I collect PLAAF models and even I won't touch these

The J-10 pictured is actually their 1:48 model, not the 1:72, so yeah, if they can't get their scales right, I don't have much hope for the quality

The J-8 is just way too basic for a collectible model

I own a 1:72 J-10 branded from some areo space company trying to copy Gaincorp or visa versa, it's ok at best and yeah, doubt we'll see anyone do these in diecast anytime soon so knock yourself out on these AF1's releases

I also have most of the HM Mig-15 releases bar the first Korea and last Korean MiG release and none of the none Soviet or PLAAF releases as they don't interest me or fit my collection
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Old 09-07-2014, 09:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I collect PLAAF models and even I won't touch these

The J-10 pictured is actually their 1:48 model, not the 1:72, so yeah, if they can't get their scales right, I don't have much hope for the quality

The J-8 is just way too basic for a collectible model

I own a 1:72 J-10 branded from some areo space company trying to copy Gaincorp or visa versa, it's ok at best and yeah, doubt we'll see anyone do these in diecast anytime soon so knock yourself out on these AF1's releases

I also have most of the HM Mig-15 releases bar the first Korea and last Korean MiG release and none of the none Soviet or PLAAF releases as they don't interest me or fit my collection
A pilot, some paint in the cockpit, and some black on the missiles and I think the J-15 will be ok looking. It is what it is I looked up past auctions on ebay of the Gaincorp su-35 and su-33....

I will splurge some on the Su-33 if another pops up most likely though, $500 shipped for the 35? no way haha
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Air Force 1 J8 and J10

The only problem then would be the visible hinges. How did Gaincorp deal with that ?

Just back on the J-8, I noticed The Mule had some pics up of it, it's not as bad as I first saw somewhere, I may pick one up but not for $53, I'll wait till The Mule has them on 50% discount hahaha

But one thing is for sure, a new player to the diecast game doesn't mean good quality diecast, seems like more and more poor quality diecast is ahead of us, with HM being the only real player now as I doubt Falcon will improve much and Witty now bust
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Old 09-07-2014, 10:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The only problem then would be the visible hinges. How did Gaincorp deal with that ?

Just back on the J-8, I noticed The Mule had some pics up of it, it's not as bad as I first saw somewhere, I may pick one up but not for $53, I'll wait till The Mule has them on 50% discount hahaha

But one thing is for sure, a new player to the diecast game doesn't mean good quality diecast, seems like more and more poor quality diecast is ahead of us, with HM being the only real player now as I doubt Falcon will improve much and Witty now bust
they didn't, I did some searching on that as well and there is running jokes of Gaincorp using "stanley house hinges" on the model. Apparently they are less than pleasant looking.
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Old 09-08-2014, 02:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
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the only difference here is there is no other option. Normally I'd agree 100% with you. Had these been F-14's, 16's, 18's, 22's etc I wouldn't give them a second glance. But I'm really on a Sukhoi kick at the moment and its keeping me interested in the hobby. I have enough of the US aircraft, especially the F-14.
I now reflexively pre-order all the CW F-14s, but with the santa one, I have to ask myself "why?"

I think there's a general agreement here that if somebody is going to go for this, the J8B looks the least bad. Yes, the scheme is boring, but save for one prototype scheme (below), that *is* the basic J8B scheme. I'm not sure what UF meant by it being "way too basic" - the model seems fairly ok.




UF's mig-15 collection is bizarre . Let's see - "all of the mig 15s bar the first korea and last korea and none of the soviet or plaaf." hmm. as far as i can tell, this means you have

Ha2402 - night fighter
HA2403 - captured USAF
2404 - czech
2405 wang hai (maybe - depends if you call this plaaf or not)
2306 - poland
2407 - ddr
2408 - egypt
2411 - taiwan
2412 - taiwan
2413 - cuba
2416 - czech

which is essentially all of the mig15s that I don't have and almost none of the ones I do . I also have the camo easy model 2-seat UTI, which is "ok."

i have a gaincorp su33. a nice model, but no need to overspend on it.

TFM pictures of the j8 indeed olook not terrible, but ther's that frosted glass that we saw on the p61 close-ups. I hope this is not to be a permanent af1 feature.
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Old 09-08-2014, 03:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Air Force 1 J8 and J10

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I now reflexively pre-order all the CW F-14s, but with the santa one, I have to ask myself "why?"

I think there's a general agreement here that if somebody is going to go for this, the J8B looks the least bad. Yes, the scheme is boring, but save for one prototype scheme (below), that *is* the basic J8B scheme. I'm not sure what UF meant by it being "way too basic" - the model seems fairly ok.


UF's mig-15 collection is bizarre . Let's see - "all of the mig 15s bar the first korea and last korea and none of the soviet or plaaf." hmm. as far as i can tell, this means you have

Ha2402 - night fighter
HA2403 - captured USAF
2404 - czech
2405 wang hai (maybe - depends if you call this plaaf or not)
2306 - poland
2407 - ddr
2408 - egypt
2411 - taiwan
2412 - taiwan
2413 - cuba
2416 - czech

which is essentially all of the mig15s that I don't have and almost none of the ones I do . I also have the camo easy model 2-seat UTI, which is "ok."

i have a gaincorp su33. a nice model, but no need to overspend on it.

TFM pictures of the j8 indeed olook not terrible, but ther's that frosted glass that we saw on the p61 close-ups. I hope this is not to be a permanent af1 feature.
What I meant by basic is both the aircrafts design (look) and in that the model didn't come with a pilot or detailed missiles, then again most Chinese market models never have such details.

I'll still get one just to add to the PLAAF fleet but only once it's in the bargain bin

Woops, sorry meant to say most of the soviet piloted/PLAAF MiGs, that list you complied just listed all the horrible ones haha Ok some are ok if you can stand having too many all bare metal models and for airforces most ppl don't collect.

So I have:

HA2402 DPRK (Night Fighter)
HA2405 Wang Hai (Yes I call it PLAAF lol)
HS2409 CPV AF
HA2410 Soviet White 384
HA2412 PLAAF (Yes I don't like this in PLAAF collection coz it was a defector aircraft but at least it has PLAAF markings)
HA2415 PLAAF (Korean War)

I also have the camo UTI from Easy Model and can't complain, its nice enough to get added to the collection
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Old 09-08-2014, 03:56 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Air Force 1 J8 and J10

And if you really must know (coz I know your dying to lol) I have the following MiG-21's as well:

HA0103 Big Fish
HA0128 J-7 PLAAF
HA0144 Soviet (Frontal aviation)
HA0147 Soviet (Black 16 camo version)
HA0180 J-7 PLAAF (camo)
HA0181B NVAF (None sig version)
HA0182 NVAF (latest release on order)

I would have also liked to get the one or two of the following Iraqi, Egyptian, Syrian and another soviet release but couldn't be bothered looking for them
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Old 09-08-2014, 04:24 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Air Force 1 J8 and J10

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Originally Posted by Ukrainian_Falcons View Post
And if you really must know (coz I know your dying to lol) I have the following MiG-21's as well:

HA0103 Big Fish
HA0128 J-7 PLAAF
HA0144 Soviet (Frontal aviation)
HA0147 Soviet (Black 16 camo version)
HA0180 J-7 PLAAF (camo)
HA0181B NVAF (None sig version)
HA0182 NVAF (latest release on order)

I would have also liked to get the one or two of the following Iraqi, Egyptian, Syrian and another soviet release but couldn't be bothered looking for them
My list is similar:

Big Fish
J7 Plaaf
Frontal Av 0125
Iraqi MiG21
Egyptian
Corgi all, multiple copies

didn't pay more than GBP 10 for any of these except maybe i paid slighly more for the frontal av one.

wouldnt mind getting one of the DDR ones, but it's not exactly critical.

hadnt noticed the camo plaaf one until now. in general, the new releases to me appear to be poorer than the old ones.

cant imagine who would buy the new nvaf ones ones given the corgi ones ubiquity. or maybe the corgi ones are all gone now..

but of course would buy a ukraine one if they made it , even if it was this bit of pop art:

Last edited by FortunateSon; 09-08-2014 at 05:26 AM.
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Old 09-08-2014, 05:12 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Air Force 1 J8 and J10

10 GBP each !!!!! Freaken bargain of the century there

And yeah with most of HM's camo releases, the quality has done down, very evident on the last PLAAF release

I have the corgi camo 21, thinking of selling it now I have a similar HM version albeit a different variant

I'm getting the HM NVAF 21's coz they are better made and more accurate then corgi's, eg paint scheme and weapons

I'm surprise no one has done more Ukrainian models, I mean come on, we were dumped with a bunch of them and became by default the 2nd biggest user of soviet tech.

As for which one I'd go for, any of the woodland or sand&spinach schemes

Btw that is an EPIC sized pic
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Old 09-08-2014, 05:26 AM   #16 (permalink)
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ya, sorry about the epic pic. i wish this forum had some way of taggina for a smaller size since i find myself notbeing able to use a lot of images as they are too large for here. i dont know why i posted that one.. i'll go back and delete it.

gbp 10 each - yes, that's about right. i am not really a fan of the 21. the corgi ones i bought generally for gbp 6 each and the other ones i got i think mostly at the duxford show. i was quite happy to find big fish for that price (and acutally, the syrian too, which i undrstand is 'rare') as i didnt think i'd ever get big fish... but there it was. the indian air force ones i got 2 for GBP 5.

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Old 09-08-2014, 07:00 AM   #17 (permalink)
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No probs, I'm surprise DAC let you post it and didn't force you to resize coz isn't there a file size limit, surely that was over it lol

Yeah well for have a dozen of then at the cost of 1 of them at retail, why not. Is that both on eBay and the airshow. Still surprised they were that cheap and yes the Syrian and even the Big Fish to a certain degree is rare, nice finds

You'll easily be able to sell each for $50 a pop in most cases
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Old 09-08-2014, 12:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Both Corgi's NVAF MiG-21s have inaccuracies. The camo one (2587) has a fake number which I cant' understand where Corgi got from. The silver one (4326) is a PF/PFL version which didn't carry GP-9 cannon pod (I replace it with an external fuel tank). So I think HM MiG-21s are better choices.

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ya, sorry about the epic pic. i wish this forum had some way of taggina for a smaller size since i find myself notbeing able to use a lot of images as they are too large for here. i dont know why i posted that one.. i'll go back and delete it.

gbp 10 each - yes, that's about right. i am not really a fan of the 21. the corgi ones i bought generally for gbp 6 each and the other ones i got i think mostly at the duxford show. i was quite happy to find big fish for that price (and acutally, the syrian too, which i undrstand is 'rare') as i didnt think i'd ever get big fish... but there it was. the indian air force ones i got 2 for GBP 5.
FortunateSon, you must have a reason to choose that nickname

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Old 09-08-2014, 01:25 PM   #19 (permalink)
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FortunateSon, you must have a reason to choose that nickname
Mainly, it's an easy trap for numpties. Anybody who tries to insult me by calling me "UNfortunate Son" or something "oh so clever" like that can instantly be put on my ignore list because they're basically too stupid to have any attention paid to them.

Actually, I just chose it beacuse I was listening to the CCR song "fortunate son" when it asked me to choose a username. Plus I love the F-105 (among many other aircraft) and the song kind of fits that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvwQmxLaknc

Anyway, I don't think my accomlishment on the mig21s is that great. i just bought them a long time ago, relatively speaking. Believe me, I have made many more bargains than this . Let's face it, we collect models that more or less just sit there. Looking for bargains is part of the 'fun' of the hobby. Some of my better bargains of the last three weeks include the midway devastator on ebay for gbp 8 and the first pearl harbor kate for 7.50. both unboxed, but in perfect condition. it is amazing, since another midway devastatator went some two weeks ago on ebay for the insane price of over GBP 100 (now the price has stabilized 20-30).

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Old 09-08-2014, 06:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Air Force 1 J8 and J10

These are all on Uk eBay ?

As for the corgi 21's, I never knew the green one had a fake rego and I was never a fan of the cheap plastic gun and rocket pods, the later being a totally wrong load out

One thing you can do though is put the rocket pods on your Big Fish 21, on display is has a missile and rocket configuration
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:09 PM   #21 (permalink)
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In some early battles NVAF MiG-21s actually did carry rocket pods (for each wingman, while the flight leader carried AAMs). But surely missiles is a better load out for an Ace's fighter.
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Old 09-09-2014, 08:09 PM   #22 (permalink)
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In some early battles NVAF MiG-21s actually did carry rocket pods (for each wingman, while the flight leader carried AAMs). But surely missiles is a better load out for an Ace's fighter.
Ah ok thanks for that info, didn't know that and yeah, missiles would suit a model based on an ace
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Old 03-28-2016, 06:20 PM   #23 (permalink)
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just ordered the j-10 on a mega sale. will report the results when it arrives.
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Old 03-28-2016, 07:04 PM   #24 (permalink)
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just ordered the j-10 on a mega sale. will report the results when it arrives.
the blue and white one?
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Old 03-28-2016, 07:19 PM   #25 (permalink)
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just ordered the j-10 on a mega sale. will report the results when it arrives.
I have the grey camo J-10, considering I paid all of about $35 it's not a bad model at all in my opinion.
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Old 03-28-2016, 07:56 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I have the grey camo J-10, considering I paid all of about $35 it's not a bad model at all in my opinion.
I hope youre right. I got it at jumblies for gbp 25 less 20 percent equals gbp 20 = usd 28. Figure for that price was worth a punt. Also got a duplicate hm black tailed p51c for the same price. Would have preferred the j8ii, but, anyway, as i, said, pretty cheap so no real loss if it ends up in my donation bin.
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Old 04-01-2016, 10:39 AM   #27 (permalink)
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I have the grey camo J-10, considering I paid all of about $35 it's not a bad model at all in my opinion.
just got mine. amazing how getting a deal on it softens our views.

what i like: the box is reasonably compact. metal stand. the model has surprising heft (though much of the

what i don't like: gear down only. gappy supreme. cheap plasticky stores and gear.

I'll probably end up giving this away.
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Old 04-01-2016, 10:55 AM   #28 (permalink)
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just got mine. amazing how getting a deal on it softens our views.

what i like: the box is reasonably compact. metal stand. the model has surprising heft (though much of the

what i don't like: gear down only. gappy supreme. cheap plasticky stores and gear.

I'll probably end up giving this away.
It is what it is, and considering the price I paid I'm not complaining. The J-10 is by far the most numerous multi-role fighter in PLAAF service so I wanted a representative example in my collection, and I won't be giving mine away until something better comes along.

I spray painted the nose cone black on my J-10 to more accurately represent what the real AC look like, but other than that it's bone stock.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../9/2244937.jpg
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Old 04-01-2016, 11:23 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Air Force 1 J8 and J10

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Originally Posted by ArcLight View Post
It is what it is, and considering the price I paid I'm not complaining. The J-10 is by far the most numerous multi-role fighter in PLAAF service so I wanted a representative example in my collection, and I won't be giving mine away until something better comes along.
you're absolutely right. that is the reason to get one. plus, if i recall, it was the star of that terrible "sky fighters" movie.

i dont know much about the J-10, but comparing your photo to the model it seems that the spine height on the model is far too low. and the pitot tube is ludicrously long (but metal!)

They did however do a credible job on the complex wing shape.

notice from your photo a landing light on each gear leg. would be interesting to understand the logic behind that.
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