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Old 10-05-2014, 10:27 AM   #101
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

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alright, I might try one day and get one of these. But I see it in flight on the mule site and the fuel tanks are all parallel, is that the way it is in the superbug?
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OK, you found one inaccuracy...the original super bug's pylons were all parallel to the fuselage axis, however there were separation issues encountered during testing so the pylons were canted outwards. There is a penalty in drag and range because of this.

I frankly prefer the pylons straight and not canted, looks better.
early WW superbugs had the parallel tanks/pylons, later ones have them correctly canted.

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so WW did it the original way. But why the amraams have a short white tip, it doesn't look real, and the nose cone tip looks a bit too flat. I will not comment on the seat because all of the manufacturers weren't able to produce an accurate one. The main gear look a bit too thin.

Are there WW super bugs that are gear down only or do all of them have the options? I am looking for the royal maces in particular.
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Royal Maces is gear down only. Series 1 are gear down only series 2 have the optional gear
that's right, as well as corrected tank/pylon angles in series 2. sadly, it was also series 2 that dispensed with including the stand.
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Old 10-05-2014, 12:26 PM   #102
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

Maybe the owner of Witty blew all of his money in Macau on gambling and girls in addition to poor property investments?
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Old 10-05-2014, 01:51 PM   #103
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

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Maybe the owner of Witty blew all of his money in Macau on gambling and girls in addition to poor property investments?
was this comment really necessary? witty has brought us many fine models over the years, often at very reasonable price.

anyway, one of their models that is not so well regarded is their F-18C. nevertheless, I have been looking at pictures of the model below for a long time. Finally, I could not take it any more and bought it at a very reasonable GBP 20 (free shipping) from Gary at Tiger Hobbies via Ebay. I know that HM also had 100th anniversary of naval aviation "C" schemes that were not very popular, but for some reason I never really liked those but decided to go for this "USS randolph" livery.

This is a model that there are surprisingly few good pics of on the web as far as I can tell:









still, from what I can see from the photos, it has a suprisingly generous amout of tampo and at the end of the day even if it's a boat anchor, it's only GBP 20. I think this may even be my first witty "C" but I'm not sure about that.

My only worry is that I did see this one:



in person and thought it was quite poor.

Last edited by FortunateSon; 10-05-2014 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:25 AM   #104
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

Witty F-18E "Black Aces" arrived today.

My initial thought was that the color is way off (too dark on top), but after some more review it's not so bad. Could use some weathering though, potentially.

One stupid mistake was that the "100" on the wing was supposed to be on the inboard flap not the outboard flaperon (?) as it is on the model. Hardly an earth shattering issue though.

For GBP 20, a nice pickup. kind of regret not pickign up a second one for GBP 20 just to convert my VFA-115 (the very first witty) superbug to gear up.




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Old 10-07-2014, 04:19 PM   #105
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

Hi guys,
I work for a model company and can confirm that witty is no more.we had conformation a while back but was not allowed to say anything.they will be missed as we sold a lot of there models in fact prob more than corgi and its a shame as looking at corgi now especially the 72 vulcan which is a glorified airfix kit witty had a great place in the open market for new models.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:10 PM   #106
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Hi guys,
I work for a model company and can confirm that witty is no more.we had conformation a while back but was not allowed to say anything.they will be missed as we sold a lot of there models in fact prob more than corgi and its a shame as looking at corgi now especially the 72 vulcan which is a glorified airfix kit witty had a great place in the open market for new models.
Hopefully the toolings will be passed on to another manufacturer, which from I am told is pretty likely.

Could take a while though....for them to commence manufacturing.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:13 PM   #107
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Hopefully the toolings will be passed on to another manufacturer, which from I am told is pretty likely.

Could take a while though....for them to commence manufacturing.
Hopefully someone will buy the MiG-29 and SU series moulds, the rest can be thrown in the bin (of course I don't mean that )
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Old 10-08-2014, 01:06 AM   #108
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

you know something interesting from what I heard...don't ask me the source....but it's just a rumor....but it kind of shed some light on why Witty Wings closed their doors. I heard that Gemini (once a partner of Witty Wings since they shared a few military moulds together) had a falling out with Witty, in turn, they informed lockheed or one of the real aircraft companies that Witty had produced models without licensing rights. When the real company learned of this, they tried to get Witty Wings to pay up 2-3 years worth of licensing rights. That's why they suddenly closed their doors. Now whether or not this is true or not is all up in the air. Thought it was interesting though.
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Old 10-08-2014, 02:02 AM   #109
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you know something interesting from what I heard...don't ask me the source....but it's just a rumor....but it kind of shed some light on why Witty Wings closed their doors. I heard that Gemini (once a partner of Witty Wings since they shared a few military moulds together) had a falling out with Witty, in turn, they informed lockheed or one of the real aircraft companies that Witty had produced models without licensing rights. When the real company learned of this, they tried to get Witty Wings to pay up 2-3 years worth of licensing rights. That's why they suddenly closed their doors. Now whether or not this is true or not is all up in the air. Thought it was interesting though.
Dang. That's pretty bad if it were true. I do think that theory is definitely more likely than the one I heard from my retailer who said HM bought off witty wings
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Old 10-08-2014, 05:19 AM   #110
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

Very similar to what I'd posted in the MiG-29 thread.

Quote:
Was on the phone with one of my favorite retailers, and heard something interesting...basically the summer/fall Witty shipment was in a container and was being held up in customs at the port of Long Beach. Supposedly Lockheed Martin had filed a piracy complaint for unlicensed use of likeness for Witty's F-16s, and since there were F-16s in the shipment it held up everything else in the container - including the MiG-29s. And since Witty is done and the fee is unlikely to be paid, likely all the contents will be seized by customs and destroyed.
And this also affected the MiG-29 and Eurofighter-2000 models as well.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:20 AM   #111
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

this is from series 2 and the fuel tanks are parallel (not as claimed):

Witty WTW72007-11 - F/A-18E Super Hornet Diecast Model, USN VFA-31 Tomcatters, AJ100, CAG: The Flying Mule
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Old 10-08-2014, 02:08 PM   #112
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

Of the reasons so far mentioned.....I lean to the "licensing Rights" of why Witty Wings went belly up. Then that brings up another concern...are all the other MFG's like HM, AF1, etc... up to date on their licensing rights or even have licensing rights?

If not......we could possibly see a domino effect going the way of WW. These MFG's (hopefully reading this or someone from here could inquire to them) should be cautioned. For example ACPilot could ask William of HM are they aware not having Licensing Rights could kill their business.

I suspect though that older planes are either public domain or the real MFG's of those planes are long since gone and out of business.

IMO

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Old 10-08-2014, 02:21 PM   #113
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

I know HM does have their own legal team that handles the licensing, that's why you don't see HM producing Hueys anymore or even using their Mirage 2000 mould because of the high licensing rights that real companies are charging HM for them.
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Old 10-08-2014, 04:24 PM   #114
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you know something interesting from what I heard...don't ask me the source....but it's just a rumor....but it kind of shed some light on why Witty Wings closed their doors. I heard that Gemini (once a partner of Witty Wings since they shared a few military moulds together) had a falling out with Witty, in turn, they informed lockheed or one of the real aircraft companies that Witty had produced models without licensing rights. When the real company learned of this, they tried to get Witty Wings to pay up 2-3 years worth of licensing rights. That's why they suddenly closed their doors. Now whether or not this is true or not is all up in the air. Thought it was interesting though.
not paying for rights is pretty crappy....the only thing worse is making money in a partnership knowing this had been done, then turn around and rat them out after you've made your money. Sounds plausible enough to me, given that I hope they get sued as well.
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Old 10-08-2014, 04:55 PM   #115
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

In some form or other, I would also bet it is a licensing issue. I don't have any Witty planes, but I don't want to see any MFGR disappear. Less competition, and less options for the consumer.
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:02 PM   #116
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

I know for sure that both HM and Century Wings have license for their products.

Here is something I found. For a long while I didn't know why WW super hornet looked so unattractive to me (and only me, no offense to any collector) in the pictures. I measured the ratio of the body thickness (right below the tail) to the height of the vertical tail. Here are the numbers:
(1) the real Super Hornet is ~44%
(2) WW F-18E/F 1/72 die cast is ~67%.
the huge difference in the ratios made the model look very thick in that region, and the seam line is too wide as well. Add to that the crude nozzle. Its good to know that HM will go for a Super.
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:46 PM   #117
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SteveNFL states "not paying for rights is pretty crappy"....this would not be true for countries that have agreements in place not bootleg the intellectual properties of others. And if bootlegging does occur and exposed, compensation and or criminal penalties and cease and desist should be incurred by the offender.

Now if we purchased models for example, that did not have a licensing agreement from any particular aircraft company for a particular model, can this be a question of morality for us? Would there be any feeling of injustice to find out that we have been helping to disregard the licensing rights of others while at the same time increasing the profits of a MFG that is inappropriately negating compensation to the intellectual property owner?

We would be helping to fuel the injustice by making our purchases, would We not?

Food for thought

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Last edited by Blues Boy; 10-08-2014 at 07:43 PM. Reason: Meant to be plural and not singularly directed to Steve
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:51 PM   #118
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Now if you purchased models for example, that did not have a licensing agreement from any particular aircraft company for a particular model, can this be a question of morality for you? Would there be any feeling of injustice to find out that you have been helping to disregard the licensing rights of others while at the same time increasing the profits of a MFG that is inappropriately negating compensation to the intellectual property owner?

You would be helping to fuel the injustice by making your purchase, would you not?

Food for thought

Blues Boy
not really food for thought as no one knew about this while they were buying the models. I don't own any Lockheed Martin aircraft from either of those two anyway, though I wouldn't place fault on anyone who did buy one. It would be ridiculous to say they are no better than Witty or Gemini for buying and helping fund/rewarding illegal acts by both of these companies when they had no way of knowing.

Going forward if speculation turns to fact and people continue to buy from either of them then I can see your point. Both companies should be ashamed of themselves for partaking in blatant illegal acts and imo, Gemini should be hit just as hard as Witty. A free pass they deserve not. On a moral level Gemini is worse than Witty imo....
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:57 PM   #119
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

I know its a small thing and the relative size of the issue are poles apart.

But when it comes to Lockheed I kinda have no sympathy for them.

Witty should have just sold a squillion F104s....then some justice maybe inferred.

At anyrate, I personally could care less about licensing and as a collector I feel no requirement to feel anything other than how pleased I am with a model.
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:58 PM   #120
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I know for sure that both HM and Century Wings have license for their products.
It is my understanding that Corgi are the same.

I wonder how Air Force 1 are going in that regard??
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:10 PM   #121
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I know for sure that both HM and Century Wings have license for their products.

Here is something I found. For a long while I didn't know why WW super hornet looked so unattractive to me (and only me, no offense to any collector) in the pictures. I measured the ratio of the body thickness (right below the tail) to the height of the vertical tail. Here are the numbers:
(1) the real Super Hornet is ~44%
(2) WW F-18E/F 1/72 die cast is ~67%.
the huge difference in the ratios made the model look very thick in that region, and the seam line is too wide as well. Add to that the crude nozzle. Its good to know that HM will go for a Super.
you really measured it?..........
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Old 10-09-2014, 12:08 AM   #122
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on the screen not the real thing
but yes WW side under the vertical tail looks too thick to be a super hornet. Couldn't find any faults with the nose parts but the side under the tail, it just didn't look right.
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Old 10-09-2014, 12:16 AM   #123
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on the screen not the real thing
but yes WW side under the vertical tail looks too thick to be a super hornet. Couldn't find any faults with the nose parts but the side under the tail, it just didn't look right.
Good eye, but even so they did make the best Super Hornet. RIP Witty
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Old 10-09-2014, 01:51 AM   #124
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Well this is a surprise isn't it? I can't say that I'm really that sad to see Witty go seeing how I wasn't a big fan of their Mig 29 and Su-27 offerings. Can't speak to their Super Bug releases too since I don't have any in my collection. Though now that they're going out of business I might just take a quick look at my local retailer to see what Witty stock they still have leftover. The Super bug probably catches my eye most.
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:33 AM   #125
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you really measured it?..........
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Good eye, but even so they did make the best Super Hornet. RIP Witty
he's determined to bash the model no matter how many others like it, just cos it's a WW & he doesn't like them- well even david hingtgen says it's an accurate superbug, & he's a combat jet expert.
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Old 10-09-2014, 05:34 AM   #126
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It is my understanding that Corgi are the same.

I wonder how Air Force 1 are going in that regard??
As far as AF1 Osprey goes, that one is officialy licensed (at least they say so on the box, look it up on flying mule) although they *could* be lying.

As for their other models, the chinese planes, probably licensed, the rest, not sure about that.

But if I had to take my guess, there might be some licensing issues with AF1, they are Chinese and copyright infringement does not translate well to mandarin.
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:51 AM   #127
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AF1 Osprey must have been licensed in order for it to have the boeing logo.
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Old 10-11-2014, 09:04 AM   #128
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AF1 Osprey must have been licensed in order for it to have the boeing logo.
Is that so?
I can buy Pokemon cards with "Nintendo" printed all over the pack at a cheap Chinese discount store for $1.
Go to the computer game shop the authorized cards sell for 8 times that price of the discount store.
My daughter doesn't know the difference.
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:08 PM   #129
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I was told by a retailer here in the UK that the Witty Wings factory closed about a couple of months ago, but that 'Sky Guardians' (Europe) may be continuing with limited production?
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Old 10-27-2014, 05:21 PM   #130
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I was told by a retailer here in the UK that the Witty Wings factory closed about a couple of months ago, but that 'Sky Guardians' (Europe) may be continuing with limited production?
I hope so. That would be good news
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Old 10-27-2014, 05:37 PM   #131
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Wow, if Gemini did that I would think that's a pretty hefty power play to force on Witty. Honest thing to do given they deal with the licensing fees themselves which will help cement that relationship with the military manufacturers. But nasty of they ever want to work with any other manufacturer who will know and remember this move; such a reputation can be a double edge sword.
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Old 11-25-2014, 08:31 PM   #132
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i heard someone bought over witty's moulds but no further information as to who the buyer is or whether it involved all the moulds. anyone heard anything similar? you heard anything, andrew beard? if the postings above are true, i sure hope it wasn't gemini who got their hands on the moulds... that would just be too ironic. anyway, let's just hope it's true and we'll see more models coming in the not so distant future. i would personally like to see a rmaf su-30 mkm...

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Old 12-01-2014, 08:25 AM   #133
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i heard someone bought over witty's moulds but no further information as to who the buyer is or whether it involved all the moulds. anyone heard anything similar? you heard anything, andrew beard? if the postings above are true, i sure hope it wasn't gemini who got their hands on the moulds... that would just be too ironic. anyway, let's just hope it's true and we'll see more models coming in the not so distant future. i would personally like to see a rmaf su-30 mkm...
Hi tomcatter.
I have not heard of anyone getting their hand on the moulds as yet but your right i Hope Maybe hobbymaster can get them.
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Old 12-03-2014, 05:19 AM   #134
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So who is the happy purchaser?
I'm thinking some models may never reappear, if they do they'll appear with push back mechanisms on the underside.
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Old 12-03-2014, 05:56 AM   #135
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So who is the happy purchaser?
I'm thinking some models may never reappear, if they do they'll appear with push back mechanisms on the underside.
eh? How do you mean?
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Old 12-03-2014, 07:13 AM   #136
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

Maybe a bit off topic, but I hope that Hobby Master will make a better MiG29. I missed WW TUDM MiG29, thought.

If this things make you feel unhappy and uncomfortable, than I'm so sorry.
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Old 03-04-2016, 03:15 PM   #137
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

What a shame Witty ended his business a while ago.
Today 6 Witty planes arrived which I could buy very cheap. No issues at all. Unpacking, no glue or paint problems, putting them on the display stand and that's all.
From all companies, with Witty I have/had the least problems concerning glue and painting problems.
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Old 03-05-2016, 03:59 AM   #138
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What a shame Witty ended his business a while ago.
Today 6 Witty planes arrived which I could buy very cheap. No issues at all. Unpacking, no glue or paint problems, putting them on the display stand and that's all.
From all companies, with Witty I have/had the least problems concerning glue and painting problems.
Some of the moulds have been bought by JC Wings, Herpa & Aviation 72.
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Old 03-05-2016, 11:43 AM   #139
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What a shame Witty ended his business a while ago.
Today 6 Witty planes arrived which I could buy very cheap. No issues at all. Unpacking, no glue or paint problems, putting them on the display stand and that's all.
From all companies, with Witty I have/had the least problems concerning glue and painting problems.
they're pretty good for what they are... but there are complaints of inaccuracies for some of their models, more often than not about the shape of the nose cone, the canopy and its hinges. i reckon the paintjob was generally pretty good. and of course, it didn't cost an arm and a leg... and a kidney too, in the case of some of their contemporaries.
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Old 03-06-2016, 12:52 PM   #140
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What a shame Witty ended his business a while ago.
Today 6 Witty planes arrived which I could buy very cheap. No issues at all. Unpacking, no glue or paint problems, putting them on the display stand and that's all.
From all companies, with Witty I have/had the least problems concerning glue and painting problems.
Witty did have few issues here and there (which diecast manu hasn’t?). But I feel poor ol’ Witty was vastly underrated and unappreciated. It fell short on several accuracy issues, some glaring, others not. But in the main, Witty models were (and still are) every bit as good as anything Corgi and Hobby Master produced.

Had Witty remained and addressed a few niggling faults and want for brand recognition, it would have given the other two manus serious competition.
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Old 03-06-2016, 12:59 PM   #141
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

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Witty did have few issues here and there (which diecast manu hasn’t?). But I feel poor ol’ Witty was vastly underrated and unappreciated. It fell short on several accuracy issues, some glaring, others not. But in the main, Witty models were (and still are) every bit as good as anything Corgi and Hobby Master produced.

Had Witty remained and addressed a few niggling faults and want for brand recognition, it would have given the other two manus serious competition.
for the record, i have way more witty's than any other manufacturer... probably because i love 'em superhornets and flankers!
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Old 03-06-2016, 04:17 PM   #142
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

Well now it's been well over a year since Witty disappeared and this hobby has been worse for it as a result.... There's no longer any variety, you had Witty do their moulds while HM did others, now we are stuck with just HM's, who seems to just keep recycling their Phantom mould till the cows come home

And what about Falcon Models ? Not that they were very good, QC and finish were very low but they again offered different AC

As for who got what moulds, does it matter ? Once they mark it up double compared to Witty, whose going to buy them ? Maybe newbies to the hobby if there are enough to support this hobby, anyone that enjoyed Witty's reasonably priced models from before will be left with a sour taste buying rebadged models now....

And what about Calibre and TSM ? Shouldn't they have produced something by now ?? Did they even get off the ground or stop short like Red Falcon ?
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Old 03-06-2016, 05:52 PM   #143
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

I agree. At their prices, I couldn't argue against the value WW offered in terms of quality versus highly sought after schemes (in my case anyway). Plus, I never really thought the quality was really that bad. Not perfect of course, but who is?

Despite the issues of quality, I still loved their selection. They made a few models that I was very lucky to snag right when I started collecting about a year ago. I commend them for coming out with schemes that no others have even been willing to try, and which no one will ever do so probably.

Lucky for me, they released models with liveries that I came across during my time in aviation that meant a lot to me for various reasons, and that I was able to purchase right before they were no longer available anywhere. The ones I was able to get, and was very happy to do so, were the Arkansas ANG F-16, the California ANG F-16, VF-103 F-14 Last Cruise (with all black vertical stabs), and the VFA-103 F/A-18F (circa 2008 while on the Washington.)

Last edited by ElementalWeapon; 03-06-2016 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 03-06-2016, 06:58 PM   #144
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

kind of irrelevant if its true they didnt have the rights necessary to make those crafts. Isnt that why they went away? Something about Gemini calling foul and then the crap hit the fan? It would be hard and make little sense for a new manu coming in to offer the same price when HM and CW continue to push prices north and they would have to get the rights to use any moulds they purchased.
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Old 03-06-2016, 07:11 PM   #145
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

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kind of irrelevant if its true they didnt have the rights necessary to make those crafts. Isnt that why they went away? Something about Gemini calling foul and then the crap hit the fan? It would be hard and make little sense for a new manu coming in to offer the same price when HM and CW continue to push prices north and they would have to get the rights to use any moulds they purchased.
True, there obviously going to cost more if they do buy the rights to make them, then again I'm sure other manus dont get rights to everything and as collectors, why do we care ? We just want the models so if anything this just burns bridges with collectors by telling on one manu to then do exactly the same themselves or sell the moulds to manus that also don't buy the rights

My take on it is, GJ, in league with JCW, (as they pretty much share civie moulds) got together to put WW out of business so they can then buy the moulds themselves, probably with the help of the factory as well as these moulds / machinery usually disappear from diecast manufacture, more likely repurposed for other more profitable manufacturing processes

What does his mean to collectors ? Me personally, I will do my best not to buy much from the JCW/GJ thugs.
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Old 03-06-2016, 07:27 PM   #146
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

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True, there obviously going to cost more if they do buy the rights to make them, then again I'm sure other manus dont get rights to everything and as collectors, why do we care ? We just want the models so if anything this just burns bridges with collectors by telling on one manu to then do exactly the same themselves or sell the moulds to manus that also don't buy the rights

My take on it is, GJ, in league with JCW, (as they pretty much share civie moulds) got together to put WW out of business so they can then buy the moulds themselves, probably with the help of the factory as well as these moulds / machinery usually disappear from diecast manufacture, more likely repurposed for other more profitable manufacturing processes

What does his mean to collectors ? Me personally, I will do my best not to buy much from the JCW/GJ thugs.
same, it was fun while it lasted....I mean worse is done by "better people" everyday then buying unlicensed product. I know herpa already makes several of the crafts they bought so id assume the licensing is moot but the fact that CW's similiar sized craft has gone up by $70 kind of foolish for herpa to try not to get that money. 110 to 120 makes sense really as much as we dont like it.
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Old 03-06-2016, 07:55 PM   #147
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

It would be rather foolish not to increase it at all but whatever happened to have an edge over the competition ? Quality is certainly one way but now days price plays a big factor

I just don't see diecast being a sustainable industry if they are all pricing themselves out of collectors pockets. I just don't see it being profitable in the long term if collectors are forced to collect much less, it takes many units before a mould is profitable but if collectors are just getting one of two must have pieces, I can't see that happening, the Vigi mould sounds like that's the case
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Old 03-07-2016, 02:03 AM   #148
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Default Re: Witty wings ended his business?

i think the diecast manufacurers have relied on the old tried and tested ways of manufacturing and hence, it's still very much labour intensive. hence the reliance on finding a suitably skilled workforce is paramount in the industry... and that, to me, is why it's so difficult to get new schemes/airframes out.
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