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Old 04-16-2012, 07:57 PM   #1
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Default Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Falcon Models
FA7725006
Mirage IIIEA Sqn VIII "Falklands War", 1982
Argentine Air Force
1/72 Scale

Late June 2012 Release

Dan





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Old 04-17-2012, 09:55 AM   #2
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

YES!! FINALLY AN ARGENTINAN MIRAGE!!! Now to hope for the M-IIICJ and the Dagger
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Old 04-17-2012, 12:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Interesting, looks like it's the first model of an Atar 9C powered Mirage III. I wonder if the French version will be done, as it would need a chin radome. Wait and see...

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Old 04-17-2012, 01:47 PM   #4
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

really good news

thats what i want , then my 1982 seires will be complete !!

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Old 04-21-2012, 04:18 AM   #5
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Has anyone a way to communicate with Falcon Models?

There are a couple of particularites about this model.

This particular unit was moved to the Air Base in Rio Gallegos just before the invasion. They generraly operated with BIG drop tanks, of 1700 lts.
They were armed with Matra Magic-1 R-550. The AAF was not using Sidewinders at that time. They are distinctly different form Sidewinder, so I hope they use the right missile.

Also, the paint scheme they are using is right for pre-war and the first days of the war. After the 1st of MAy, the FFA planes received yellow ID visual markings.
For these planes in particular, the got the rudder panel in the tail plane painted in yellow. So they can choose for original paint, or the more attractive one with yellow panels ( I hope the last).
So agai, if someone have a way to convey this to Falcon Models?

Cheers,

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACpilot View Post
Falcon Models
FA7725006
Mirage IIIEA Sqn VIII "Falklands War", 1982
Argentine Air Force
1/72 Scale

Late June 2012 Release

Dan




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Old 04-21-2012, 07:21 AM   #6
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Quote:
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Has anyone a way to communicate with Falcon Models?
You can try sending an email to them
[email protected]


I'm sure Dan will correct me if I'm wrong.

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Old 04-21-2012, 11:38 AM   #7
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

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You can try sending an email to them
[email protected]


I'm sure Dan will correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes, that is a good email address. Chris is who you should direct the information to.

Dan
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:13 AM   #8
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Hi, just got word from Chris in Falcon, they can modify the paint scheme of the Mirage, but they can not modify the tooling to include the Magic-2 R-550 this version was mainly using during combat missions in Malvinas... a pity, as their F-1 do have the misiles...anyway, we will have to get them from another kit, either diecast or plastic ( suggestions?).
Anyway, these are the two pre-pro profiles I got:
Attached Thumbnails
Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"-salesplan_t46r.jpg   Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"-salesplan_t45r.jpg  
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:15 AM   #9
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

For reference, these are two profiles I sent them as reference.
Attached Thumbnails
Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"-mirage_iii_argentina_4.jpg   Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"-mirage-malvinas_1.jpg  
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:40 AM   #10
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pampa View Post
Hi, just got word from Chris in Falcon, they can modify the paint scheme of the Mirage, but they can not modify the tooling to include the Magic-2 R-550 this version was mainly using during combat missions in Malvinas... a pity, as their F-1 do have the misiles...
That's great, Falcon listening to collectors. Too bad they can't do the missiles but at least you asked. If Falcon keep on making good business decisions, they might just become a major player like HM
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:13 AM   #11
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

I am so looking forward to Falcon's 1:72 RAAF Mirage III. I cannot believe it been 30 years since the Malvinas/Falklands conflict. And it's like history repeating itself at the moment ...what with the savage UK defence cut-backs and the rhetoric currently comming out of Buenos Aires
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:08 AM   #12
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Nothing will happen. Is just that, rethoric. This governement took special care in destroying and starving the armed forces, for reasons that go beyond the purpose of this forum. So the capability that existed, even if primitive, in 1982, is not longer there. Remember that the planes being flown in combat by Argentina, with the exception maybe of the 4-5 Super Etendards available, were all outdated designs, and in some cases, in serious need of overhaul or retirement.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:25 AM   #13
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

It is iroinic the Argentina now poccesses military airpower capabilities that the UK no longer has eg: a maritime patrol platform in the shape of the P-3 Orion, (hey IF200..there is an idea!!!). What the hell is the current UK Government thinking...have they forgotten the leassons of history. The Argentine forces are far more capable today then what they were in 1982...something that perhaps should be remembered.
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Old 05-20-2012, 04:05 AM   #14
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

That is a great suggestion. Perhaps more interesting that the Orions from the modelling point of view is a conversion made after the war on the cargo Electras from the NAVY for ELINT missions, called "Electron". Very interesting planes.
And as an Argentinian, I wish what you are stating were true..but our armed forces are in a really sorry state, believe me....
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Old 05-20-2012, 05:02 PM   #15
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Argentina's Air Force is still using the A-4 (it has been modernized though) and it hasn't purchased new aircraft for decades. The RAF would destroy the Argentinien Air Force in its current state very quickly and without any problem. The FAA is in very bad shape, even for Latin American standards. I am not completely sure, but it seems like they do not have any border problems with Chile anymore, and the talked about the Falklands is just that talk, I am sure that the population would not agree in going in another military adventure for that small piece of land.
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:10 AM   #16
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Quote:
Originally Posted by QF707 View Post
It is iroinic the Argentina now poccesses military airpower capabilities that the UK no longer has eg: a maritime patrol platform in the shape of the P-3 Orion, (hey IF200..there is an idea!!!). What the hell is the current UK Government thinking...have they forgotten the leassons of history. The Argentine forces are far more capable today then what they were in 1982...something that perhaps should be remembered.
Four Typhoon x 4 AMRAAM + 2 ASRAAM + Link 16 + Type 45 = no Argie airforce .
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:10 AM   #17
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Bit optimistic I think!!! Ask the Indians what they thought of the Typhoon!!! You can count on at least one to two of them being U/S at any one time...so there is half your force gone already. And there is only so much two of any aircraft could do, regardless of how effective they theoreticly are. If it happened again things may well be significantly different. Take out Mt Pleasant, (and it's Typhoons and VC10 Tanker support ), in a surprise air strike or with Special Forces...occupy Port Stanely strip and consolidate. No Vulcans, Harriers, Nimrods, or significant Carrier-led Task Force abilities to "save the day" this time. Combine lack of British military flexibility and capabaility with lack of poitical will and, as said, the outcome may be different. Then there is the British subs...the Argentinians now have very capable ASW P-3 Orion capability...what do the British have???
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:02 AM   #18
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

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Bit optimistic I think!!! Ask the Indians what they thought of the Typhoon!!! You can count on at least one to two of them being U/S at any one time...so there is half your force gone already. And there is only so much two of any aircraft could do, regardless of how effective they theoreticly are. If it happened again things may well be significantly different. Take out Mt Pleasant, (and it's Typhoons and VC10 Tanker support ), in a surprise air strike or with Special Forces...occupy Port Stanely strip and consolidate. No Vulcans, Harriers, Nimrods, or significant Carrier-led Task Force abilities to "save the day" this time. Combine lack of British military flexibility and capabaility with lack of poitical will and, as said, the outcome may be different. Then there is the British subs...the Argentinians now have very capable ASW P-3 Orion capability...what do the British have???
qf707
a battle hardend army, the second most capable fighter aircraft after the F.22 the worlds best and most experianced special forces, at present around 1200 mil pers including an infantry battalion on the islands(remember the bloody nose 80 RMs gave the original landing ( taking out a corvette with a charlie-G classic!) The capability to turn BA into a glass car park

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Old 05-21-2012, 07:11 AM   #19
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

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Bit optimistic I think!!! Ask the Indians what they thought of the Typhoon!!! qf707
They didn't buy it because the Rafale was lower cost, bigger back handers.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:35 AM   #20
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a battle hardend army, the second most capable fighter aircraft after the F.22 the worlds best and most experianced special forces, at present around 1200 mil pers including an infantry battalion on the islands(remember the bloody nose 80 RMs gave the original landing ( taking out a corvette with a charlie-G classic!) The capability to turn BA into a glass car park
Ahhhh..... it's that sort of over-confident British arrogance that has lost them many a battle throughout history. Mate, I am an Australian so I am probably seeing things a little more neautrally. The fact is that British forces are currently over-extended, under-resourced, and simply ill-equipped to deal with another Falklands. Infact they are in the worst shape they have been since the end of WW2. The current British government has totally demoralised and ripped the guts out of the British armed forces making them a shadow of what they once were. An Infantry Battalion and 4 Typhoons...yeah good luck with that!!! against the entire Argentinian military, (and very probably with the support of other sympathetic South American countries). And as for your "second most capable fighter after the F-22" ...if it is so good why didn't the Australians or Indians buy it, (and in both cases it was not rejected because of cost but capability limitations). The truth is that a well-flown SU-30 or Rafael would turn your Typhoon into shredded carbon fibre waste product. As to nuking BA!!!...nobody in Number 10 would have the balls. If the Israelis didn't use nukes, when prevoked by Iraqi Scud strikes in the 1991 Gulf War, then there is no way the poms could justify their use in another Falklands. Geez..last time the British were not even willing to launch conventional strikes against the Argentine mainland. Why then would they elect to use nukes this time???
QF707

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Old 05-21-2012, 10:09 AM   #21
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

I don't think the Brits would have a hard time putting together a coalition to oust any invasion force. The US owes them for the support in SW Asia, and one carrier task force in the vacinity would be enough to send any invader back to the mainland.

However, all this would probably be after 5 years of sanctions and rhetoric from the UNunited Nations.

Personally, I think the islands should hold a self-determination referendum to see what they would like. Maybe do the same with Northern Ireland, but that is my simple mind thinking that problems can be easily resolved.

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Old 05-21-2012, 10:48 AM   #22
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

I don't know how successful a British international military coalition request to retake the Falklands would be, given that these types of coalitons are usually only formed when there is mutual benifit for all participating parties, (eg: Iraq=oil, Libya=oil/strategic location, Afganistan= common terrorist threat). Frankly , apart from the UK, no other country would give a dam if Argentina re-invaded the Falklands, cause they have nothing to loose, (unless of course oil is discovered in that region) . NATO wouldn't even be interested . I don't think the American Congress or public would be to keen or willing to get themselves involved in yet another useless far off conflict...they truly are war-fartigued after a decade of conflicts, (which is why they are withdrawing from Iraq and Afganistan without any clear victory being achieved). Besides, the USA are also reducing their defence spending, and still need to prepare for possible conflict with Iran and Nth Korea. I think, like last time, the UK would be effectively on their own trying to re-take the Falklands, (only now they are in a far worse military state and condition to try and do so).
I do agree though that maybe it is high time the people of the Falklands are given the opportunity of self-determination and independance....and put this issue to bed once and for all.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:19 AM   #23
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

The IFOR in the Balkans were very successful. There were primarily humanitarian reasons though, and the Falklands are totally different.

I disagree about Iraq and Afghanistan not being clear victories. We achieved the goals of removing the threat to US national security, but idiotically stuck around too long and got embroiled in local politics. Neither administration had a clear understanding of the cultural aspects of entering those countries. THAT was a colossal failure.

Iraq will never be a united country until they get an authoritarian government. It is literally three countries, socially, culturally, and politically. My friend just returned from there. He lived there until college, then had to flee Saddam's thugs. He was disgusted with the factional strife going on there. His family was able to travel to Kurdistan to see him, but he was not allowed back to his hometown b/c the Shia were killing or driving out anyone not of their faith. Being Iraqi Christians, Kurdistan is the only safe area for them, and that is only a ploy by the Kurds to gain western favor.

Pulling troops from Afghanistan now would still be a victory, even if the country degenerated (is that possible?) into prolonged civil/tribal war and the Taliban returned to power. We could simply bomb the government institutions from the middle ages back to the stone age until a government capable of international cooperation was established.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:03 PM   #24
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Whilst I certainly respect and acknowledge your views, we clearly have different definitions of "victory". Both Iraq and Afganistan are in total and utter disarray, and can be considered no more of a military or political victory than Vietnam or Somalia. As to the initial justifcations given for being in these countries in the first place, well I would simply ask....... how many "weapons of mass destruction" were found in Iraq??? and were was Bin Laden actually found???. Please understand that these comments are not a reflection on the fighting men and women of all countries, who have loyally served and died in these theaters. They have done an admirable job despite the lack of clear military or political goals, direction, will, or commtiment from the governments concerened, (including my own).
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Holy Thread Drift Batman!
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:50 PM   #26
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Yeah sorry about that...but a very interesting series of topics have evolved. Now...where the hell is my Falcon RAAF Mirage????? lol
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:01 PM   #27
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

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Originally Posted by QF707 View Post
Whilst I certainly respect and acknowledge your views, we clearly have different definitions of "victory". Both Iraq and Afganistan are in total and utter disarray, and can be considered no more of a military or political victory than Vietnam or Somalia. As to the initial justifcations given for being in these countries in the first place, well I would simply ask....... how many "weapons of mass destruction" were found in Iraq??? and were was Bin Laden actually found???. Please understand that these comments are not a reflection on the fighting men and women of all countries, who have loyally served and died in these theaters. They have done an admirable job despite the lack of clear military or political goals, direction, will, or commtiment from the governments concerened, (including my own).
qf707
Yes, definitions and opinions, as well as justifications, are all part of our wonderful geopolitical climate. I'm glad you disagree... it would be so boring if we all thought the same.

WMD... well, another hotbed topic, so I think it best to let the historians sort it out. I think the UN resolutions were enough justification for me, but that's just my silly opinion. I hate mustard and pickles, but that doesn't make them evil.

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Holy Thread Drift Batman!
I did it again. My mind will wander.... Why didn't CP stop me?

How about that Mirage III? Anyone seen the new intakes, or is it top secret? This looks like a sure buy to me, as well as the IDF ones, if they get the mold fixed.

Last edited by Skinner67; 05-21-2012 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:20 PM   #28
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

I must say that I do find your views, (whilst different to mine), intelligent, insightful, well-considered, and respectfuly delivered. I would be happy to sit down over lunch with you any day, to discuss further... Hot dogs and shakes, my buy, no pickels and mustard on yours.. I promise.
Regards
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:34 PM   #29
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Thanks QF707. Very nice of you.
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:37 AM   #30
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For reference, these are two profiles I sent them as reference.
Revised artwork with yellow rudder.

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Old 05-22-2012, 12:01 PM   #31
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For reference, these are two profiles I sent them as reference.
I'm not an expert on Argentine Mirages - but is the rudder actually supposed to be Tan and not Yellow?

Another collector found this photo that shows a rudder that has been exchanged with another aircraft. The Tan stands out because the Camo pattern on the starboard side of the rudder is normally green.

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Old 05-22-2012, 04:34 PM   #32
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

The right color is yellow. The color on that picture is distorted.. High viz marks were applied to the planes on the Malvinas Theater after May 1st. Many of them keep them well into the 80's.

Cheers,
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:21 PM   #33
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The right color is yellow. The color on that picture is distorted.. High viz marks were applied to the planes on the Malvinas Theater after May 1st. Many of them keep them well into the 80's.

Cheers,
The reason I ask is even on the profile you found the supposed yellow colour also appears on the fuselage (by the roundel) and spills onto the wing as well.



The tan rudder could be the result of a rudder swap with another aircraft that had tan painted in the starboard side of the fin. At one point this aircraft did have the tan colour on that side of the fin.



I always hate to put my faith in profile drawings as they contain errors more often than not. Photos always are a better source. Are you able to provide a photo?


Dan

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Old 05-23-2012, 10:21 AM   #34
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AC:

Let me rephrase: the color of the fin on the right side was tan ( I have the FS colors listed below) and green, with some variations in the extent of ecah color between batches of aircrafts. What it looks form the picture is that they repainted green the trailing part of the fin, leaving the rudder on the original light brown.
The rudders wre painted in yellow after May 1st (or last days of April in some units) as an ID aid. So the color of the rudder can be perfectly tan, even if it was a Malvinas Theater assigned aircraft, if the picture was taken before May 1982.

The profile in particular that you mention was an unlucky choice from my part. I was focused on showing the rudder painted in yellow and didn't pay attention to that. The profile got the wrong colour there.
The official colors for the camoufalge are:

Dark Green FS34079
Medium Green FS34102
Medium Green FS30219

Underside in White FS36622.

By the way the picture is interesting in showing the full complement of missiles: 2 Magic 1 and a single Matra R530 radar.

I don't have pictures of good quality, I will try to get some maybe from Huey 21 in the DH Pub, who has done a lot of research on the Mirage IIIEA-IIICJ. The only material that I have of good quality are profiles (sorry), from the book Dassault Mirage IIICJ and IIIEA - Serie Fuerza Aerea Argentina #15, by Jorge Nunez Padin, who is author of books about every single type on the AAF and the Naval Air Force.

Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"-mirage_iii_post982.jpg

Well, I don't know what is going on with the pictures, they are all showing milimetric!!!

Cheers,
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:00 AM   #35
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Sorry, right colors are:

Dark Green FS34079
Medium Green FS34102
Medium Brown FS30219

Underside in White FS36622.

Cheers
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:56 AM   #36
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Quote:
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AC:

Let me rephrase: the color of the fin on the right side was tan ( I have the FS colors listed below) and green, with some variations in the extent of ecah color between batches of aircrafts. What it looks form the picture is that they repainted green the trailing part of the fin, leaving the rudder on the original light brown.
The rudders wre painted in yellow after May 1st (or last days of April in some units) as an ID aid. So the color of the rudder can be perfectly tan, even if it was a Malvinas Theater assigned aircraft, if the picture was taken before May 1982.

The profile in particular that you mention was an unlucky choice from my part. I was focused on showing the rudder painted in yellow and didn't pay attention to that. The profile got the wrong colour there.
The official colors for the camoufalge are:

Dark Green FS34079
Medium Green FS34102
Medium Green FS30219

Underside in White FS36622.

By the way the picture is interesting in showing the full complement of missiles: 2 Magic 1 and a single Matra R530 radar.

I don't have pictures of good quality, I will try to get some maybe from Huey 21 in the DH Pub, who has done a lot of research on the Mirage IIIEA-IIICJ. The only material that I have of good quality are profiles (sorry), from the book Dassault Mirage IIICJ and IIIEA - Serie Fuerza Aerea Argentina #15, by Jorge Nunez Padin, who is author of books about every single type on the AAF and the Naval Air Force.

Attachment 76200

Well, I don't know what is going on with the pictures, they are all showing milimetric!!!

Cheers,
Thanks for the response Pampa.

I guess that even though profile drawings aren't the most reliable sources - if you have multiple profile drawings all showing the same detail there must be truth there.

I am satisfied that yellow rudders are correct.

Here is your latest profile below (a little larger).

Dan


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Old 05-23-2012, 02:07 PM   #37
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Yikes!

Another photo supporting a Tan colored rudder has appeared From "Damien"on the DAF. I don't think both photos supporting the Tan rudder would be "off".

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Old 05-27-2012, 03:14 PM   #38
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I'm not an expert on Argentine Mirages - but is the rudder actually supposed to be Tan and not Yellow?

Another collector found this photo that shows a rudder that has been exchanged with another aircraft. The Tan stands out because the Camo pattern on the starboard side of the rudder is normally green.

Dan



A couple of corrections Dan, but first, let me introduce myself. I'm not actually a collector, but am a keen modeller and have been researching this subject for about 30 years now, on and off. More recently, I've built a number of aircraft for the Falklands Museum in Port Stanley. So, back to the above photo. When I found it, it was one of a number which I interpret as follows...

It is generally accepted that Argentine Aircraft started to wear the yellow recognition bands as a result of the accidental shooting down of Capt Garcia Cuerva on emergency approach to Port Stanley. However, I've yet to find photo's of the Mirage IIIEAs actually wearing their yellow bands. What I have found lots of is photos like the one above, where the yellow has been overpainted with dark brown. On a IIIEA, the area covers the back of the fin, from a point just behind the front of the fin antenna, raking forward at an angle that is less than the rear fin sweep.The rudder always remains the original colour. So, the rudder is not actually a replacement at all, and the lighter rudder in black and white photo's is purely because the tan of the original camo is lighter than the dark brown that overpaints the recognition panels.

So, what would it have looked like? Approximately this, but note that I've got the fowrard edge of the yellow too far forward on the IIIEA in these pics...



So, onto the question of whether Mirages ever had yellow rudders, especially as they are depicted as such in profiles on the Argentine AF site! the answer appears to be no, BUT... What I have seen is a single colour photo of a 2 seat IIIDA (I-002) with the yellow rudder.

Of course, the schemes on Daggers are different again, and also had more variations.

Hope that all helps a bit.
James
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:00 AM   #39
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

Hi Guys,

James, thanks for the observations. As you said, it is extremely difficult to find Mirage III EA pictures with the band. I must mention that the only one with this dark straight mark in the fin that I have seen is I-016 as depicted in the picture. I didn't even manage to find the picture you mentioned.
This scarcity of M-III shots post May 1st is also due to what happend in the war: after May 1st, after the catastrophic first air combat by the Mirage III (two losses, one pilot killed due to friendly fire), the weight of the attacks against the task force was supported by the A-4s, Daggers, and Canberras, plus A-4q's and Super Etendards. So the pictures were taken on the heroes of the day. The yellow bands can be seen in all Daggers post May 1st (with some variations in turquoise), some of the A-4B, all of the A-4C (with some variations in turquoise), some of the Canberras and all Pucaras in different fashions.
I had visual evidence (unsupported of course, I was in a car) as I was driving past El Plumerillo AFB in Mendoza, in 1983/4, and saw a couple of Mirage III-EA on final approach just in front of me (the runaway is at 90 deg with the highway, that istelf is an auxiliary runaway for at least 5 KM built because the 78 conflict with Chile), with one of them depicting the yellow rudder. I must add that the Mirages left behind to defend Buenos Aires never got the yellow bands.

So guys, I sense some discomfort here with this issue. I am dead on sure the yellow bands were there, but people is not feeling sure, so question is, as I initated this: would you feel better with a pre-May 1st (that is the day Cap. Garcia Cuerva was shoot down) with no high-viz marks? So we can inform Falcon? I can always paint mine!

Cheers,
Pampa
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:03 AM   #40
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

And I-005 also?
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Old 05-28-2012, 06:44 AM   #41
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Pampa,
I'd thoroughly recommend considering a copy of "Wings of the Malvinas", by Santiago Rivas, Hikoki Publications. It attempts to cover every flight by each of the Argentine units involved, and has some great photos. In the VIII Brigade section, there are pics showing I-014 (page 208), I-005 (page 209), 2x Mirage IIIEA (page 210, but can't see the codes), I-016 (page 212), Mirage IIIEA (the famous take off photo with an R530 and two Peruvian drop tanks), all with dark brown sections. (The one in the photo on page 210 is most annoying - it shows the wing panels start at the tank pylon, and extend only half way to the wingtip - another error on my model ). The book also contains the I-002 photo (page 212). this does raise the question of when did the FAA acquire the Peruvian tanks, did they arrive with the Mirage V's or before, as this may date one of the photos?
Perhaps the simple answer is to release the model with the dark brown patches as there's plenty of evidence to base that on, but as per your question, is this something people would want?
James
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:14 AM   #42
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

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So guys, I sense some discomfort here with this issue. I am dead on sure the yellow bands were there, but people is not feeling sure, so question is, as I initated this: would you feel better with a pre-May 1st (that is the day Cap. Garcia Cuerva was shoot down) with no high-viz marks? So we can inform Falcon? I can always paint mine!

Cheers,
Pampa
I personally believe given the lack of supporting photographic evidence that the yellow rudders should be omitted.

Falcon is still fairly new in the Diecast game and it is a good lesson to only make changes when someone provides a photo rather than error prone profiles.

Of course the question remains - is there enough time remaining in the production process to change it back?

Dan
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:49 AM   #43
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Guys, I have contacted some peopl back in Argentina, who in turn is contacting more people, including museum curators..the consesnus so far is that the yellow band existed. In particular the guy that drew the profiles in the FAA oficial internet page, Carlos GArcia, is cited as an authority and if he draw them, is because they were ther. I am trying to contact him too, to se if we can unheart some hard evidence. The dark brown patches on the contrary have less support, they are being dismised as fin repairs..This is getting interesting but I feel like kicking a bee hive!!!!
I am also trying to get in contact with former high-school mates that were AAF pilots ( A-4 and Pucara) to see if they can put me in contact with former Mirage pilots and see what I can find.
I think I will contact Chris today and let him know about the controversy here and try to take it back at the beginning. I will lt you know.

About the drop tanks, the Peruvian M-5Ps arrived in flight by Mid April ( according to some sources, have to double check). Also Israel provided 40 tanks of 1300 Lts by the end of May that were triangulated through Peru. Hope this helps.
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Old 06-02-2012, 03:52 PM   #44
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

I really have no clue about those yellow markings, but I followed the thread with interest. I found this picture, if it can be of help...



Cheers,
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Old 06-03-2012, 01:47 AM   #45
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Nice picture , the planes are IAI Dagger (originally IAI Nesher) attack planes flying form BAM San Julian in Santa Cruz, Argentina.
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Old 06-03-2012, 04:22 AM   #46
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the planes are IAI Dagger
Ooops... Not really of help for the subject then... Sorry...
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:50 PM   #47
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Personally, I think the islands should hold a self-determination referendum to see what they would like. Maybe do the same with Northern Ireland, but that is my simple mind thinking that problems can be easily resolved.
+ Hawaii, Philippines, New Mexico etc etc


sorry couldn't resist
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Old 06-03-2012, 09:22 PM   #48
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+ Hawaii, Philippines, New Mexico etc etc


sorry couldn't resist
Please start a new topic if you want to discuss this. The thread drifted too far earlier, and is dedicated to the Argentine Mirage IIIS.

The Philippines are sovereign. Other than the US Civil War, The US has an excellent track record of respecting self determination. Of course there are many mistakes, atrocities, and bad decisions in our history, most especially to the Native American population.

see Wikipedia for:
Former unincorporated territories of the United States (incomplete)
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Old 06-04-2012, 04:49 AM   #49
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Default Re: Falcon Models Mirage IIIEA Argentine Air Force "Falklands War"

no politics,please....its a diecast forum here...just enjoy our hobby of diecast collecting.....
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:50 PM   #50
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Other than the US Civil War, The US has an excellent track record of respecting self determination.


No politics, but just ask Latin Americans !...

Sorry, couldn't resist.
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