Do you care if a model is collectable? - DA.C
 

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View Poll Results: Do you care if a model is collectable?
Yes 12 19.05%
No 51 80.95%
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Old 05-28-2013, 07:35 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Do you care if a model is collectable?

Just out of curiosity I wanted to see how many people here value the rarity of a model more than how it looks and vice versa. For example- would you buy a Herpa Premium model because you like the particular model or only because it is a rare Herpa Premium? Likewise, would you care if, for example, Aeroclassics made models in unlimited numbers versus their current policy of a few hundred peices per model?
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:26 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

I buy a model because I want it, if it turns out to be rare, well that's an added bonus.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:06 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam92 View Post
I buy a model because I want it, if it turns out to be rare, well that's an added bonus.

I second that Adam!
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:37 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam92 View Post
I buy a model because I want it, if it turns out to be rare, well that's an added bonus.

Exactly!
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

I would concur on this also.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:50 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Same here.

If I wanted to invest money, there are other valid options. Model airplanes is NOT an investment! So I don't understand the 'Limited Numbers" and "Never to be released again" it's ridiculous. The only one's scoring is the Retailers and the after-market (E-Bay fleecers).

Personally, I still think there could be a business case made for someone to setup a huge warehouse in a country where such things would be inexpensive and then slowly release models on the market over time (at a price which covers the initial purchasing (manufacturer) cost and the storage cost and some profit).

If you want to grow a market, you ensure that enough product is available at a reasonable price. I think there are a lot of people who want to collect fleets, but give up because they reach a point where they have 75%, but the other 25% will cost so much (e-bay etc), that it is not worth it in the end.

The manufacturers seems be limiting their own markets. The idea of 'Collectors Only' is stupid in my view.
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

I would also agree with this statement - If I wanted to invest money, there are other valid options. Model airplanes is NOT an investment! So I don't understand the 'Limited Numbers" and "Never to be released again" it's ridiculous. The only one's scoring is the Retailers and the after-market (E-Bay fleecers).

I collected the Road Champs Police Vehicles and at one time, they were a hot item, some of them going for up to $100.00 dollars. The original Pennsylvania State Police vehicle was fetching much more than this from E-Bay crooks! Now look at what these vehicles are going for on Ebay!
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:29 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenevh View Post
Same here.

If I wanted to invest money, there are other valid options. Model airplanes is NOT an investment! So I don't understand the 'Limited Numbers" and "Never to be released again" it's ridiculous. The only one's scoring is the Retailers and the after-market (E-Bay fleecers).
..... The very reason I am collecting coins made out of Silver rather than models made out of zamack. I don't know what the market value of zamack is, but am confident it is miniscule compared to Silver (or even scrap Copper or steel for that matter).

Dave (Silver collector)
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Old 05-28-2013, 01:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

I am with most of the above. I buy a model because it fits my collection, looks good and is less polluting for the environment than just burning the money with a match.
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Old 05-28-2013, 02:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam92 View Post
I buy a model because I want it, if it turns out to be rare, well that's an added bonus.
Same goes for me.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Wow, it is unanimous...

One more vote for the 'I buy what I like collectible or not' category.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam92 View Post
I buy a model because I want it, if it turns out to be rare, well that's an added bonus.
Hit the nail on the head
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam92 View Post
I buy a model because I want it, if it turns out to be rare, well that's an added bonus.
Same here.
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

I learned early and often, this is not an investment, it's a hobby. Sure there are models that gain value and some get surprisingly valuable (though only for a time in most cases), but the majority are only nice little toys we like to have and even play with once in awhile. If there is a true collector out there who has ever made a profit in the long run, I would like to know about it. Of course dealers are excluded from this,
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Old 05-28-2013, 07:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

I buy models that fit in my model of KBOS. Rare models have inadvertently become a part of my fleet in the process, such as my fleet of AirTran 717s.
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Old 05-28-2013, 08:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukjohna View Post
I am with most of the above. I buy a model because it fits my collection, looks good and is less polluting for the environment than just burning the money with a match.
Actually probably not that good for the environment. Either a plane or a ship has to get it either to the store or mailed to you which runs on fuel creating exhaust, smoke etc.., the model is manufactured in a factory which I can only care to think what it does to the environment and these metals have to be sourced which means mining and more pollution etc..
Not so good for the environment but still :P it's a plane you can't diss
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Old 05-28-2013, 10:20 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

I'd be happier if the purchase price, and long term value, of these models were lower. I just want the model. I'd rather not have to scrounge around for years, looking for a sold-out model - I'd rather it be easier to find.


As others have said, if you are looking to make an investment, there are much better places to do it elsewhere.
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Old 05-28-2013, 10:25 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

I'd never buy a model 'just to have it'. If I'm buying a model, it's one that I like, want, or need to have in my collection. I'm not that guy that would go out and buy a rare model (even though I don't like the airline/aircraft) just to have bragging rights and say "I have this model and you don't"
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:11 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam92 View Post
I buy a model because I want it, if it turns out to be rare, well that's an added bonus.

Couldnt have said it better myself...
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:17 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northwest752 View Post
I'd never buy a model 'just to have it'. If I'm buying a model, it's one that I like, want, or need to have in my collection. I'm not that guy that would go out and buy a rare model (even though I don't like the airline/aircraft) just to have bragging rights and say "I have this model and you don't"
Sadly, there seems to be a lot of that going around on forums.
It is noticeable when a new model is announced, the forums goes 'mad' and it seems as if everyone and his dog scrambles to pre-order it based on the 'hype' that is generated.

Then when the model is released and because of the LIMITED NUMBERS produced, not everyone gets one, then you find them popping up on e-bay at inflated prices and shocking postage costs.

As an example, I wonder how many people really have Air Greenland or the Seychelles as part of their collection criteria? There are plenty of other examples.

This limited numbers releases actually creates this so called PANIC BUYING phenomenon as people are afraid that if a model turns out to be a great one and they haven't pre-ordered it, then chances are they will either not get it, or will have to donate a kidney.
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Old 05-29-2013, 04:33 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

you seem to have a thing about ebay - getting rather boring
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:07 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

i buy a model that fits into my collection criteria. To be honest investing in models is really time consuming and the returns arent as fantastic as other options like shares, precious metals etc. Its just not worth the time!
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:21 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

There goes my house on Waikiki, new Ferrari, corporate jet.
I thought based on all the BS, slagging and emotions that get thrown around fasters than a whore's drawers that these things would be worth millions.

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Old 05-30-2013, 05:54 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

This notion that numbers of models produced need to be limited to add to their 'collectability' is absolute rubbish and it annoys me so much. Sadly Aeroclassics and phoenix are culprits here. All that restricting production numbers does is inflates the prices of otherwise relatively cheap models and frustrates collectors immensely. Its total rubbish. If you think model aeroplanes are seriously a viable investment prospect then I'm sorry but you are very very naïve!
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Old 05-31-2013, 02:17 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Does anyone really believe that this lark is an 'investment'? I had fairly complete United and American Airlines fleets, and sold 'em both in toto. Now, I'm buying back (buying them for a second time) a few of the ones I really miss. Yeah, as much an investment as sitting in a casino playing the slots. Later, Doug

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Old 05-31-2013, 04:45 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

[QUOTE=thamesradar;1031812]This notion that numbers of models produced need to be limited to add to their 'collectability' is absolute rubbish and it annoys me so much. [QUOTE]

Agreed 100%
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Old 05-31-2013, 06:42 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

To all those who dont care how limited a model is.

Its not about buying a model for investment its about pre-ordering a model, getting excited to get it home, sell out and be happy you have the little beauty in your collection, Maybe secure that model over another you wanted but maybe not so badly,

Then its released again 1 year later so the 14 year old kids can get mummy and daddy to buy it for them and then you wonder why the feck was i in such a hurry last year because now i cant find that other model.

Saying that whilst searching for some cheap model cars for my son i just bought a few minichamp models for $180, there produced between 1000-6000 and i dont know what the hell they are like of size, build or quality but i had fun shopping
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:10 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thamesradar View Post
This notion that numbers of models produced need to be limited to add to their 'collectability' is absolute rubbish and it annoys me so much. Sadly Aeroclassics and phoenix are culprits here. All that restricting production numbers does is inflates the prices of otherwise relatively cheap models and frustrates collectors immensely. Its total rubbish. If you think model aeroplanes are seriously a viable investment prospect then I'm sorry but you are very very naïve!
I think you totally miss the point about the business end of our great hobby!!

AeroClassics is not a "non-profit" organization, therefore it must function as a profitable business enterprise, or cease to exist. Manufacturing more models than a market can absorb is a sure ticket to Chapter 7 bankruptcy.
Companies who have all their profits tied up in unsold inventory will also find their way to peril, eventually.

This is, after all, a hobby for most, including myself!! Do you really think I care if my fleet of Nordair, Quebecair, Arkia, or El-Al aircraft will be worth a fortune some day? I am more gratified looking at them on their diorama, and hope the company producing there "dreams come true in miniature" will continue to be financially viable, to making more dreams come true. Since the ends to that means is "limited edition collectibles", the that's the way it will be!!

Let's all enjoy the hobby!
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:11 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

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you seem to have a thing about ebay - getting rather boring
Amen to that mate!!

Not everyone on ebay is a scalper; there are some great deals to be found there too!!
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Old 05-31-2013, 09:51 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam92 View Post
I buy a model because I want it, if it turns out to be rare, well that's an added bonus.
Same here...

For Example: Someone will think I am a stupid collector buying 10x aircrafts of the same model, type, series, serial number)

Why? - Seeing it parked on my shelf and admiring the models every time I glance on it is priceless....
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:42 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Aklein707- I completely respect your response. I understand that in order to be financially viable as a business, you cannot oversaturate the market and end up sitting with hundreds of unsold units each month. However, when it gets to the point that I don't even look at Aeroclassics' news releases each month because invariably they sell out before I can place my order, It frustrates me immensely. I'd happily pay the same prices for your models as they currently go for, but I'd need to be able to get hold of them from a retailer first!

Surely if your models sell out so fast, is that not an indication that there is room in the market to maybe increase production just a little bit?
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:13 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

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you seem to have a thing about ebay - getting rather boring
Actually, Hugo, you misunderstood me.

I'm not saying E-Bay is just a den of thieves, but there are plenty of examples of people paying way too much for what is essentially a painted piece of metal.

I have bought plenty of things on e-bay at very reasonable prices. I have also been forced at times to buy something at hugely inflated prices simply because it was the only way I could get the model.

Now, you can come with the capitalist view of supply and demand, and the seller has the right to charge whatever he wants so long someone is willing to pay the prices. I would agree that it is a valid point. But, it takes the joy out of the hobby when you are looking for something which you want (and don't consider worth a lot of money) and you have to spend a huge portion of your paycheck to get it.

And I am of the opinion that this is further exacerbated by manufactureres with their limited numbers policy. I am also fully aware that not all models sell out within a short period, and it must be extremely difficult for manufacturers to gauge how many will sell of a particular model so as not to sit with excess stock. But if you don't sit with a warehouse full of models, then surely the models are more in demand than what you think.

I'm not advocating producing thousands of models, but increases should be considered when many people complain about not being able to get the models they want.

I don't know how to dumb it down more for people to understand. Don't focus on the e-bay portion, I just used that as an illustration of what happens when their is a perceived notion that we collect 'collectors items', which is not true. At least not in my particular case, and from most of the responses to this thread, I hazard to guess, most of those in this hobby.

I also see why Andrew chimed in, and I read his response with the knowledge that he is a manufacturer and needs to justify his business practices (I am sure his comments were not coming from him with his also a collector hat on.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:45 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

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(I am sure his comments were not coming from him with his also a collector hat on.
Klein often writes here with his self-interest hat on. Beware, be wise, and see through it.

Until AC, Gemini, etc completely open their books so we can see how the business models work, and how the relationships with distributors and retailers work, we really won't know what's going on. And that will never happen, so we will never really know what's going on. But people will come here and say self-interested things to confuse you.

AC seems radically different from, say, GJ. AC will make small runs of really obscure models, or subtle variations of the same livery. Even with the small runs, you see some of them linger for years on retailer shelves. Probably a loss on those is covered by the more popular models, and one always wonders what the agreements are between AC and the retailers. And like Phoenix, they're happy to go rogue, in terms of licensing - much, much more so than GJ or Herpa, despite Klein's attempts to tell you that everybody does it.

The problem for everybody is with the more popular releases. There isn't enough supply to meet the demand, even at the retail price. That's really just weird. It makes the cynics among us wonder what's really going on. Is the apparent supply being artificially constricted, to put people in a perpetual panic, to get them to pay a higher retail price than they do for GJ? And what about the ebay sellers, selling them one at a time for $100 each? On what terms did they obtain those models?
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:10 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

The last few days i have got into model cars because i got one for a friend then it made me curious what other types of cars were out there, i wasnt bothered by thye fact production ran into 1000-3000 a piece.

I placed a few bids of £20-£30 on a few exotics like Bentley,Lamborghini, ferrari etc, I won a few but missed out on others, £20-£30 was too high really considering i am not near a car fan like i am a aviation fan, but considering the RRP on the cars is between £40-£55+ i though a little dabble would be ok.

I placed a £30 bid on a Jaguar XF GT3 ending in a few days, Today i walked into my local model store and bought it off the shelf for £20, I told the shop this was a good deal. He said he could offer a good deal because the UK distributor has so many of them and he was doing a deal.

Moral of the story:

Aeroclassics doesnt want to go down this route, I would think its better to make limited production and if need be change the reg# for a re-release then it is too pump out 500 of the same model and have a inventory build up in storage.

I like limited and i like collectible
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:44 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Its easy for those living in countries where you can just 'walk into the model store' and buy...for those living in remote countries where one relies on pre-ordering, its not so good because invariably if you leave a release for 24 hrs before ordering, you miss out
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:25 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

If the model meets one of the following criteria:

1. I've flown on it (or my wife/children have flown on the plane)
2. Falls within my specific airline fleets for collecting

Then I will collect it.

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Old 06-05-2013, 12:54 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

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Originally Posted by aklein707 View Post
I think you totally miss the point about the business end of our great hobby!!

AeroClassics is not a "non-profit" organization, therefore it must function as a profitable business enterprise, or cease to exist. Manufacturing more models than a market can absorb is a sure ticket to Chapter 7 bankruptcy.
Companies who have all their profits tied up in unsold inventory will also find their way to peril, eventually.

This is, after all, a hobby for most, including myself!! Do you really think I care if my fleet of Nordair, Quebecair, Arkia, or El-Al aircraft will be worth a fortune some day? I am more gratified looking at them on their diorama, and hope the company producing there "dreams come true in miniature" will continue to be financially viable, to making more dreams come true. Since the ends to that means is "limited edition collectibles", the that's the way it will be!!

Let's all enjoy the hobby!
I agree with this, it also make the hobby a bit more interesting.
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Old 06-05-2013, 03:05 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Do you care if a model is collectable?

Honestly, in many cases I dont care a sh....if I need the model for LHR, I buy it to make the picture look as complete as possible.
This is also simple reason I just bought 20x737-200 of BA from Herpa, I simply need it there.

That being said there are of course models which I buy because they are hard to get and I LIKE them. If I dont lkike them, I dont care if they are rare or not....in the end, it is still a hobby and there is no right or wrong anyway. Someone might tell me I have cheap crap, while I am pretty happy with it....so who cares as long as I AM pleased.
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The picture was taken by Thomas Millard in Houston.
(I am very thankful to him for this wonderful picture) and was downloaded from airliners.net ! It is not owned by me nor do I have copyright, but what makes a good shot even more popular than letting everyone see it ?!
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