lufthansa340

Wow... Waffle is like the Lord Voldemort of 400SH... "we dare not speak his name."

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A Tupolev

There are some people over at 400sh that are trying to do the right thing for the site and the hobby. Unfortunately, all the good of the site is over shadowed by the lover affair between Todd and Andrew and their self destructive deletions of posts and banning of people they place on their enemies list. This problem has been going on for years now. There is a large number of aviation enthusiast that have been insulted by and banned from 400sh due to this love feast between Todd and Andrew. The problems with threads like this one will only get worse as Todd and Andrew continue to ruin the credibility and reputation of 400sh.

You say some here could't possible see the good at 400sh, well maybe its because Todd and Andrew have had so many of us banned over there for exercising our rights of free speech.

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Radicalized American

Gray Trees on a Hill

I look at 400SH as a "manufacturer's forum" to a large degree... in a sense the "official website for AC, IF200 and PHX". Following that train of thought, it is quite in line with logic that there will be some degree of editing/deleting etc. It happened on the GJ forum. It happened on the Herpa forum. It happened on the DW forum... all of which are now gone I might add.

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N8N1NW

Not really...

Before he even posted, I sent him a couple pms, he responded with polite comments, and FYI, most 400SH members were W900 members, so he wasn't new.

Faheem's respose was kinad offensive through(no offense)...I mean, locking a thread just because ya hate the guy. ?!!(Not Willie, I meant Waffle)

L-1011-Heavy

Sorry Norm, I Know A Few Things That Perhaps You Don't.

Most Of My Personal Experiences With Andrew Have Been Good (At The Toronto Show) Except The Very First Time I Met Him When I Was Just A Fledgling Aeroclassics Collector Which At That Time, Meant The World To Me, After My Opening Words Of Exhuberance Exclaiming The 16 AC Models I Got In My Collection, I Was Shot Down For No Reason At All.
Andrew Did That To Another Collector/Vendor That Posts On 400 SH As Well Last Year I Think.
Also I Know WAAAYYYY Too Much From MANY Retailers (And From Some Of His Group Of 25 "Selected Few") To Agree With You Totally.
If Everyone Says The Same Thing From Across 2 Counties, There's Someting To It.
Solid Proofs Andrew's Bullish Behavior On All These Forums. So Don't Tell Us There Are "Unfounded Notions".
And You And I Both Know You Read Most Of Them.
I Think You Are A Great Guy, But Please I Think You Turn A Blind Eye To The Whole Thing As Many Do.

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"In The Absence Of Excellence, There Is Only Mediocrity."

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N8N1NW

It's quite true that when you meet a guy ya didn't really like online in person, they usually are nicer.

LOT 737-300

Trying to find a better example, but this is the best one. On 400SH, they sorta see waffle as Germans see Adolf Hilter. Since in Germany, it is illegal to go around saying Heil Hitler or doing Nazi Salutes. At 400SH, it is a bannable offense to say anything positive about waffle or the sites he is affiliated with.

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Groover158

Thanks for the heads-up Tupi. Being the inquisitive guy that I am, I asked Todd (my second PM to him ever) specifically how many members are banned from 400SH. According to Todd there are currently 4 members who are banned from 400SH out of 3000 members. You are obviously one of those.

I think the point is that they are deliberately biased over there and they make no bones about it, nor do they try and hide the fact. They also admit that they will delete posts when they want, but it is generally for commercial reasons (yes I know this is open to conjecture). As I stated in my earlier post, I have certainly taken Todd and Andrew to task, sometimes successfully and sometimes not so. As I said also, there is some great stuff happening within the 400SH forums as there is here at DAC. Those who are active members of the site are not blind followers of some kind of Andrew Klein cult, they are more likely to be guys who don't consider the bias to be a 'die in the ditch' issue.

In the meantime, I am still curious to hear anyone's opinion on the quoting of a PM sent by Faheem to Billy. I am interested because when I first started on DAC back in 2006, there was one particular thread that included a lot of derogatory comments from posters when someone quoted a PM they had recieved from someone else. I remember locking this into my brain for future forum etiquette reference. Now it seems that Billy (in your eye's Tupi) is some kind of hero for doing so. I stand by my earlier criticism about Billy's conduct in this matter. It is nice to see that he is loyal to the DAC brand, but it seems like blind loyalty with a touch of bravado (much as you would expect from a 15 year old). As I have always said, there are three sides to every story; there is what you say; there is what I say; and then there's the truth.

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N8N1NW

Yep, and if ya haven't noticed, "waffle" was censored until now, when all of the censoring pissed off several members(I was one of them).
Well, usually there is no truth. This is the problem. Not that I care about 400SH mostly anyway.

L-1011-Heavy

Except That Didn't Happen When I Met Andrew At The Show For The First Time I Wasn't Online. I Didn't Go Online Until 6 Months Later And A Year Later On Dac. I Knew The Brand Aeroclassics The The Name Andrew Klien Was Only A Whisper Then. It's The First Meeting I Had The Bad Experience. But I'm Thick Skinned & Let Him Now It I Wasn't Going To Be Railroaded. It Was Subsequent Shows Everything Was OK.

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N8N1NW

Did I go a little too far?

http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...-hanger-4.html

Garuda747400

So why was british airways fined for price fixing with virgin and american airlines, of course virgin reported them in the end, but the intention was there. And was BA/AA price fising really that bad as they work close together anyway

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Aeroclassics Garuda Indonesia F28

L-1011-Heavy

No. You Just Had It Backwards... But Your Point is Generally True.

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Garuda747400

i visit 400sh and at first i didnt follow there rules and i have felt the wrath of todd a few times, i would rather have the informative information the forums provide, then go in gung-ho get shot down and lose out, Todd wont miss 1/3000 it will be me who loses out so now i stay out of the anti competition threads,

So what if AK is a **** or anti-competition or a Johan Chan hater, if he makes what i like i will buy it,

JC Wings are releaseing a Nippon Cargo - Pegasus 747 frieghter, i like the airline and the aircraft senificance but its front gear looks wrong so for that reason im out

BoeingFlyer11

Well just my 2 cents. My favorite retailer is Air paradigm so this makes me wonder a bit...but, I also use 400SH and I like it a lot. I use DA.C, Wings900, and 400SH and 400 SH is second to DA.C. everyone there is really nice and helpful. I must not have encountered all of the crap you guys have.

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N. Eberhard

Price fixing is when competitors collaborate/conspire on pricing.

Believe me, no producers of 1:400 do that.

Garuda747400

Sounds of things this is what people say Aeroclassics does, maybe not price fix exactly $35 all retailers but sounds like they set a minimum so not less then say $32 all around, if this is the case and retailers wanted to do it cheaper couldnt they just offer a personal discount/offer type thing , AC generally seem to be in the same bracket as any other 1:400 so cant be that wrong

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Aeroclassics Garuda Indonesia F28

MDWTWA

Sorry to be late replying to this one. I was too busy getting laid.

Define "regular basis."

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TWA - Find Out How Good We Really Were...

Hey guys, how about some Braniff Ultras??!!

Now let's finish the TWA set...TWA Final scheme 757, and all three MD-80 schemes!!!

Groover158

... and 'getting laid' doesn't mean on your back and doing it alone.

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N8N1NW

Damn, the thread was deleted(), but oh well....

400 Scale Hangar

Lets see, all I said was the AC Lufthansa A300B4 had only 1 flaw and near perfect(compared to Jet-X, which I felt was nice) and it got deleted!
(And i'l put out the fact that Lucas agreed with me he'll take the JetX)
(Some people could help me recreate the thread through....)

LOT 737-300

Well, I basically remember stating the following:
-The JetX version has weird looking cockpit windows.
-The mould needed tons more work if it was to touch the AC A300.
-Only dislike I have about the AC version was the rolling gears.

Others brought up the mistake in the sample photo you had, such as the upward incline in the back being absent (though in the production photos it was there.) Generally, most of us agreed that the JetX mould needed work done on it.

Of course, the way you worded it, it could have confused people, as it seemed you were rather praising the JetX version and bashing the AC version. Also could do that you posted a link to a database that "doesn't exist".

Nothing to get bothered over, that is expected over there to begin with. Did you get a warning from them?

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N8N1NW

Umm no, no infraction. And I typed the database number correctly, but it still won't work so I used a DAC link.

Adrian

Well said Chris! Do what I do, 'rise above it'! Why do people get wound up over politics, thread deleting, slagging off etc... Hell, just buy what you like and forget all that stuff! Aeroclassics make the best 1/400 models period! Okay, all the manufacturers make mistakes but only AC responds and if your thread is deleted through criticising AC models, at least you know they responded and are aware of it! What feedback do we get from the other manufacturers...zilch! How boring!

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Adrian



DC-8s still needed to be done in 1/400: Air Ceylon, Air Spain, Seaboard World (-63CF)

Comets still missing- Dan Air (4 & 4C), United Arab Airlines/Misrair/Egyptair, Kuwait AW, Sudan AW, East African AW, Saudi Royal Flt.

Caravelles still not made: Luxair, Air Algerie,SABENA (final scheme), Libyan Arab Airlines, SAS ( SCANDINAVIAN titles scheme)

Ilyushin IL-18s still not made: Tarom (billboard,) Malev (1st scheme),Cubana, Balkan/ Tabso-Bulgarian Air Transport,

YU-AMB

That's not price fixing. Price fixing is when competitors collude in order to set artificially high prices and prevent price competition among them. Price fixing is a problem because it prevents competition among different makers. That is not what AC does. AC just demands contractually that its exclusive retailers don't sell their products below a certain price and it is perfectly free to do so. Other manufacturers are still free to compete with AC and sell their products at a lower price, which they do and which is why AK has such violent reactions when other manufacturers decide to make the same model and sell it for a lower price.

Phantom

Didn't read through this whole thread and just randomly picked out yours...

But while I've never been banned from there (which makes me wonder...) I can only say that I agree 100% with what you say. With a few exceptions I have given up posting about 400 scale stuff there as it's rather pointless. Either agree with their agenda or get your posts deleted.
The number of posts I got deleted over there goes into the hundreds now and I simply got tired their ****.
I see there are a few more slots available at the 400SH Club, apparently I wasn't the only one who quit?

N. Eberhard

A large percentage of collectors dont get wound up over the stuff on the forums because they dont participate on the forums. They do exactly as you suggest; buy the models and enjoy them.

Lufthansaboy

I have just read Klein's comments on the new Jet X's on 400sh. He really is bitter and twisted. I'm proud to say I own no Aeroclassics nor will ever want to.

Moomins

This post has to be one of the most hypocritical I've seen for a while.

1. When you responded to the poll thread in the chat section about which forum was better, (you know, the one where you started out "What a pointless poll"), were you:

a. Rising above it? (your words, not mine)
b. Getting wound up over politics?
c. Slagging off?

2. You stated above "... just buy what you like and forget all that stuff!" I had to laugh, since it's almost a certainty that you will chime in on a release from one of the model companies on Mr. Klein's blacklist with a decidely negative slant. Am I missing something here, or are you not following your own advice?

3. I got an even bigger chuckle when you said that deleting posts should be considered a response and they are aware of the issue. Your idea that the deletion of a post should be considered a response has to be the most ridiculous notion I've heard in a long time. Perhaps you can expand on how you consider the deletion of a post feedback? My thought would be they don't want to talk about it, but I could be missing something.

L-1011-Heavy

Cough Cough Well Put Cough Cough.

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Groover158

Speaking of bitter and twisted; so despite that Aeroclassics makes some of the best examples of some aircraft types, you just won't get them because you hate Klien. I have collected examples from just about every manufacturer be they Jet-X or Aeroclassics. For all you know, the owners of the other brands could be complete tossers if you met them.

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SilkAirA320

I despise Klein for the way he behaves on the forums, but he could be the nicest guy to have a beer with. I wish I could have met him when I was living in Shanghai last year.

That said, Aeroclassics models are dominanting in my collection. All AC's moulds with the exception of the 727 are excellent. Yes, AC makes quite frequent printing mistakes, but the only model that effects me, that I am aware of is the CAAC IL-18. So it's no big deal.

The bottom line is, the person is (seemingly) a tool, but without his models, us fleet collectors would be out of luck.

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QFA388

Who dug up this dead horse.
Put your sticks away girls or you'll end up chipping your nailpolish.

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N8N1NW

?????????????????????

What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Delta747

For clarification I was the guy who put that on 400SH to see if what all the talk here was really true and I found out that it was. I wasn't trying to get attention that some people may think I was doing. It was just an experiment. But seeing the hostility between AirParadigm.com and the 400SH mods is just crazy to me. And LOT 737-300 if I were to seek attention why would I have just let that whole thing go on what happened on 400SH if I wanted attention I would have posted it here right away saying look what i found out look what I found out. And for you to judge people without knowing anything about them is just a terrible thing to do. First of all I would like to say I have judged people on Forums but what is the point I mean you don't know diddly squat about the person you barely know them. But LOT im done with this you think of me however you want to think of me. I don't need you to like me or like what I say or like what I do but one thing you should consider is starting to respect me dispite my age, race... or whatever.

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LOT 737-300

Hmm, seems like you're really starting pick a fight with me, just like how you tried to pick fights on W900 and TnP, the first attempt didn't work, so you tried to personally attack me into it with that little edit. I know that kev warned you about your behavior, even read the PMs, and your dramatic replies, hell, you know, we tried *gasp* to be nice to you and would've banned you on the spot for making those multiple accounts (which you conveniently decided to pick fights with and attack people personally with). So don't tell me that I knew jack **** about your intentions, do you really think that I'm that dumb? You're nothing more than a little attention whore, making trouble, then masquerading as the abused little child whenever your plans don't work out. It may work out for a while, but it gets old really quickly.

Here is that great little communication where you begged to get banned:
Seriously, if you think it's worse than wings, you should have just (hmm, here is a great little concept) LEFT. So, we abuse power? How about when I stood up for you when Jason just randomly banned you outa the blue? Once I found out about it, I tried to reverse it, even up to contacting Kev. And guess what, we too administrative actions too by suspending his moderator powers for a week after that little thing. So, other than Jason, who banned you that one time, who else was "abusing their power?" Most of us are aware that kev would ban our butts right away if we were abusing our powers.

We got tired of you logging in and then just out ever 2 seconds in the chat, it made it practically unusable. Jesus, you getting perma-banned was possibly one of the best things to happen on the site. Not once since had we had to deal with such crap!

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gospodin

I want to apologize for my post #49. It was made before I checked out what was really going on at 400SH. Now I feel hypocritical about my statement...typical of me to say something before I check all the facts. I visited it there, and found that sure, they do have a worship group dedicated to AK and AeroClassics. But it's in its own section, and most of the rest of the forum is actually pretty entertaining. They have less censorship of language and adult subjects, making DA.C seem kind of prudish. Different standards, anyway. Most of the members get along, and those that stir up trouble get booted or their threads or comments get deleted. Which is par for this forum, too. DA.C allows more leeway in controversy, but when flame wars get carried on, they get stomped here too. You can have a good time at both sites once you understand the rules. If something bugs you about how you're treated, just leave..no drama. One thing I have noticed here, though...apathy and boredom seem to be creeping in. A lot of the interesting people that used to post frequently are disappearing, and inane threads are showing up more frequently...including the boring "wish lists" and the ever-popular, ever-stupid "when will GJ have its next release?". I like DA.C, but man, sometimes it's hard to find an interesting subject to jump into lately. And this thread is getting beaten to death.

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Steve







Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or imbeciles who really mean it. Mark Twain

Delta747

LOT you don't know how right you are in this thread on certain aspects. To clear it up I would like to say what I did on TnP was stupid, pointless, childish, and immature. And maybe I was trying to get attention, when I did that on TnP I obviously was thinking I took my anger with Lucas in the wrong way probably the worst of ways possible. I got banned from Wings900 twice one of them being I put Wings900 Team Member as my title underneath my screenname. I then got banned again because I wrote in to Lucas a mean and disgusting PM (disgusting meaning bad language...etc). But after my first ban you think I would have been more careful and more mature but no that wasn't the case was it. I had and obviously still have growing up to do. I am willing to take responsibility for my actions which were not right in the least. But after the second time of being banned I finally realized what a "n00b" and jerk I was being. When I came to DA.C I don't think I was being a n00b at all I thought and think I was very good user at DA.C. I am not writing this so everything will be ok between us I am writing this so people know the facts and I think Lot you would be the first one to say I am telling the facts. Also about my post on 400SH that was an experiment I am serious about that. I wanted to see how they would react. The things I wrote to Kevin from TnP (A good site for however long I was there) was because of all the things that happened in chat that don't need to be discussed.

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Groover158

Thanks for the update, Steve. I was wondering if some of those making comments against 400SH were speaking from experience or from rumour. You are not the only one who has come over the site to check it out the way in which the site is run. Some have raised the point that the site is actually pretty good. Personally, I find 400SH very friendly, with lots of gentle digs here and there. Oh, and in case you are wondering, I am not linked in any way to the management of the site.

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QFA388

Ya didn't get it did ya.

this thread is like beating a dead horse and some are behaving like bithcy school girls.
move on.

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Too many kits and not enough time!

SilkAirA320

2 out of the last 10 responses are yours...

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Lufthansaboy

I didn't say I hated anybody and the reason I have no AC is because I only I only collect planes that are currently in service. Oh and by the way,you spelt his name wrongly.

Adrian

d. Neither, stating an opinion. Isn't that what forums are for?

Really, I think all companies take a hit from me if they make mistakes,
including AC, but you probably don't see those as they quickly get deleted! Whooppee what fun!

If a post is deleted, at least you know you've got a reaction. It may not be a written response, but at least you know the person that deleted it has read it and taken on board what you have said. What other manufacturer gives you any response on a forum? Try contacting GJ and giving suggestions,criticism or offering constructive help with forthcoming models. You might as well talk to the wall! I liaise with two other diecast manufacturers, but only by e.mail. At least they respond.

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DC-8s still needed to be done in 1/400: Air Ceylon, Air Spain, Seaboard World (-63CF)

Comets still missing- Dan Air (4 & 4C), United Arab Airlines/Misrair/Egyptair, Kuwait AW, Sudan AW, East African AW, Saudi Royal Flt.

Caravelles still not made: Luxair, Air Algerie,SABENA (final scheme), Libyan Arab Airlines, SAS ( SCANDINAVIAN titles scheme)

Ilyushin IL-18s still not made: Tarom (billboard,) Malev (1st scheme),Cubana, Balkan/ Tabso-Bulgarian Air Transport,

Groover158

Now, now, calm down...no need to yell at me.

So let me get this straight, when you say that you are; proud that you don't have any Aeroclassics nor do you ever want to; what you mean to say is that it is a complete fluke that you don't have any Aeroclassics because you only collect planes currently in service and Aeroclassics don't make them. Perhaps when you professed your self-pride in not ever collecting Aeroclassics and linked it with a statement that Klein was bitter and twisted, I only assumed (like 99.9% of the population) that you were fighting the good fight and sticking it to this bitter and twisted man. Sorry, my bad.

I also have to completely agree that you didn't say that you hated anybody; you merely said that Klein was bitter and twisted and that you were proud that you don't collect his products, nor do you ever want to. Sheesh! what the hell was I thinking. I need to recalibrate my hate/like indicator. Again, my bad.

Oh and thanks for the spelling correction. Interestingly, very recently (about 2-3 days ago) a visitor from here (hi Eddie ) posted on 400SH that compared with DAC, the fact that that the language Police don't seem to patrol this beat [ie. 400SH] was nice. Thank you for proving him right.

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Groover158

Aww, c'mon Tim, you know that I love school girl bitchiness. God, I hope that I haven't misspelt 'bitchiness'.

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ELY707

Groover, shhh, don't bother with this. For every model he doesn't buy, a true collector actually gets a chance at buying it before it sells out.

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SilkAirA320

So your definition of "true collector" is whoever buys AC models? What a bunch of crap.

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A Tupolev

I'm sure Groover is a great guy, but he does sip from the Todd and Andrew Kool-aid fountain.

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gospodin

Who else will pay $35 for an itty bitty airplane? Only the hard core

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Steve







Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or imbeciles who really mean it. Mark Twain

lufthansa340

Hmmm... Gemini responds to questions and comments all the time in this section and the 1:200 section. I really can't help but think that erasing criticisms is an invalid form of response. By erasing your criticism, the moderators are preventing others from seeing it... which actually gives less power to your criticism (and tells me that they give no value to your words)... which is unfortunate.

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Groover158

Thanks Tupi, I AM a great guy, but I don't sip kool-aid...I drink beer. Did I mention that I was also modest?

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