I hadn't actually planned on writing a detailed comparison for the SP since it seemed given that the 2020 NG mould is superior to the other two moulds dating from the early 2000s. However there has been some really interesting discussion on these topics on here, which made me keen to take a closer look at the moulds to see just how much better the NG version is. I have tried to do justice to comments made by others and added those parts into the review so thank you to people such as IFlyHA, Phantom II, European Collector and others.
Anyway here is my comparison. Obviously you may not agree with my scoring but if you don't please at least try and illustrate why you think I am wrong rather than suggesting I am biased towards NG etc etc.
Make sure not to compare apples vs oranges when it comes to pylons.
Your image of the real thing shows the 3rd airframe built very early in its life with the old pylons.
The first 4 initially had the old style pylon (check 747-100 or early -200) but where not too long after retrofitted with the update.
Those chunks of metal hanging from the GJ wing could be considered early style, not that it would make them any better, while NG modeled the later.
I'm curious to see whether NG pays attention once they do the prototype colors.
quote.."Anyway here is my comparison. Obviously you may not agree with my scoring but if you don't please at least try and illustrate why you think I am wrong rather than suggesting I am biased towards NG etc etc."
No need to show bias...I just saw the closed thread on 400 Scale Forum for the first time..They certainly shut you down and put you in your place which is off a high pedestal. Most of the regulars here know the Gemini SP is behind the curve ball and its been beaten to death too with numerous threads, but you just randomly pick the 747SP for yet another supposed neutral survey to prove your point. Good job once again... Your agenda rolls on....
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Gemini Jets 400 Scale....the company collectors love to hate but love to collect..
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Real tomato ketchup Eddie?
Nothing but the best! "I don't know why they call this stuff hamburger helper. It does just fine by itself, huh? I like it better than tuna helper myself, don't you, Clark?"
"you're the gourmet around here, Ed!"
Whoa. I appreciate both your and Richard's contributions to DA.C. and both are relevant. But back off on the cheap shots Crownvic. At some point down the trail, I would like to meet both of you for a drink, and enjoy your company. Doug
Whoa. I appreciate both your and Richard's contributions to DA.C. and both are relevant. But back off on the cheap shots Crownvic. At some point down the trail, I would like to meet both of you for a drink, and enjoy your company. Doug
I have a condo at Siesta Key on the beach Im a regular there.
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Gemini Jets 400 Scale....the company collectors love to hate but love to collect..
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Real tomato ketchup Eddie?
Nothing but the best! "I don't know why they call this stuff hamburger helper. It does just fine by itself, huh? I like it better than tuna helper myself, don't you, Clark?"
"you're the gourmet around here, Ed!"
I'm not really seeing anything all that biassed in Richard's investigation. Looking at it as a standalone piece of research, it's well detailed and looks at several different components. I suppose the only area to critique would be how and where points were awarded in each category in regard to the comparisons Richard made. Without specifically contesting any of that, I'm not sure where the bias is? As always Richard, thanks for taking the time to enrich the hobby and the forum.
I'm not really seeing anything all that biassed in Richard's investigation. Looking at it as a standalone piece of research, it's well detailed and looks at several different components. I suppose the only area to critique would be how and where points were awarded in each category in regard to the comparisons Richard made. Without specifically contesting any of that, I'm not sure where the bias is? As always Richard, thanks for taking the time to enrich the hobby and the forum.
You are correct, his report was accurate. I am only saying that the issues with the Gemini SP are well known here and well documented. To take a brand new product and put it up against an older outdated mould and then score it just does not seem right. Just look at the scoring.
But all is well, I hear via instagram and facebook ( I'm a regular on both) that the next review will be the pitting the quality of the latest jaw dropping awe inspiring model company products against the quality of the early generation AeroClassic models. You know the ones with the screw in the belly. Lets see how those stack up to today's mega hits.
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Gemini Jets 400 Scale....the company collectors love to hate but love to collect..
__________________
Real tomato ketchup Eddie?
Nothing but the best! "I don't know why they call this stuff hamburger helper. It does just fine by itself, huh? I like it better than tuna helper myself, don't you, Clark?"
"you're the gourmet around here, Ed!"
You are correct, his report was accurate. I am only saying that the issues with the Gemini SP are well known here and well documented. To take a brand new product and put it up against an older outdated mould and then score it just does not seem right. Just look at the scoring.
But all is well, I hear via instagram and facebook ( I'm a regular on both) that the next review will be the pitting the quality of the latest jaw dropping awe inspiring model company products against the quality of the early generation AeroClassic models. You know the ones with the screw in the belly. Lets see how those stack up to today's mega hits.
I understand your meaning, I genuinely do. I've been in the hobby a long time and some of those differences are indeed apparent to me as a 15 year collector. Are those differences apparent to everyone though?
There are very few people who get to shop for these models in person. Often, there are limited pictures from which to base purchases. In that vein I think that it's ok to compare models in that both moulds are on the market and in production (minus the Herpa which has been used maybe 3 times and most recently a decade ago). From my point of view, that warrants room for consumer advice. I primarily shop at Wafflecollectables and Jetcollector. Waffle has both Gemini/JC and NG Sps. The Gemini/JC SPs are only 4 dollars less than the NGs. But the question for me is (as a consumer)is the NG four dollars better? Neither site posts pictures to the detail that can be found in Richard's posts so I can understand how his articles could be very useful in helping newer collectors, or people without multiple mould examples for the same aircraft from which to compare in hand.
I'm lucky enough that I am able to buy multiple models a month to see which version I like better if I so choose. Many people can't justify that kind of cash these days. If you were in the position to maybe be able to buy one model a month, or even a year, why would you toss caution to the wind and turn a blind eye to a well organized review when the asking price for an older mould can be so close to a brand new one? Frankly, if I were just getting into this hobby now, it would be VERY easy for me to be deceived into buying an inferior product.
The hobby is going to be better with more collectors, not fewer. Being duped as a first or second time buyer would surely make me rethink making this a full time venture. All the best!
I just saw the closed thread on 400 Scale Forum for the first time..They certainly shut you down and put you in your place which is off a high pedestal. Most of the regulars here know the Gemini SP is behind the curve ball and its been beaten to death too with numerous threads, but you just randomly pick the 747SP for yet another supposed neutral survey to prove your point. Good job once again... Your agenda rolls on....
Sounds like regular business operations at 400SH. Normally they would just delete any posts that don't conform to their agenda. But obviously there's an agenda to discredit Richard and they kept it available for all to see. All of the "you crossed a line" and "you better apologize" comments are very laughable. Suddenly Herpa becomes something important in the 1/400 scale world? Are you kidding me? People are looking forward to 1/400 scale Herpa models so much that a Herpa wish list doesn't even exist in the wishlist part of this forum. Same crap goes on here by the usual suspects and remarkably nobody gets offended and people seem to have thicker skins when at DAC.
After my non-controversial post about an AeroClassics model got deleted at 400SH, I just simply quit posting over there. I prefer forums where the free flow of ideas and speech are allowed. Don't really care for forums where you have to feel like you are in a police state and tread carefully about what you say and do about certain brands. While the current owner of 400SH is probably a nice guy, his final post telling Richard that his behavior is aggressive is definitely a head scratcher. I know he posts here occasionally, and I'm sure he's seen the previous 400SH owner's behavior over here. I wonder why he doesn't......oh, that's right, the previous 400SH owner doesn't behave like he does over here at 400SH.
I could open up a similar survey as Richard did, but include all of the brands. And full disclosure, I have no connections to any diecast brands, I'm just a dumb-*** collector. Does anyone really believe that the results would be significantly different from his survey results? I wish all of the manufacturers would make kick-*** models that are all better than NG and Panda so that we can change the course of these discussions. Thanks for keeping DAC the Wild West of diecast aircraft forums!
Sounds like regular business operations at 400SH. Normally they would just delete any posts that don't conform to their agenda. But obviously there's an agenda to discredit Richard and they kept it available for all to see. All of the "you crossed a line" and "you better apologize" comments are very laughable. Suddenly Herpa becomes something important in the 1/400 scale world? Are you kidding me? People are looking forward to 1/400 scale Herpa models so much that a Herpa wish list doesn't even exist in the wishlist part of this forum. Same crap goes on here by the usual suspects and remarkably nobody gets offended and people seem to have thicker skins when at DAC.
After my non-controversial post about an AeroClassics model got deleted at 400SH, I just simply quit posting over there. I prefer forums where the free flow of ideas and speech are allowed. Don't really care for forums where you have to feel like you are in a police state and tread carefully about what you say and do about certain brands. While the current owner of 400SH is probably a nice guy, his final post telling Richard that his behavior is aggressive is definitely a head scratcher. I know he posts here occasionally, and I'm sure he's seen the previous 400SH owner's behavior over here. I wonder why he doesn't......oh, that's right, the previous 400SH owner doesn't behave like he does over here at 400SH.
I could open up a similar survey as Richard did, but include all of the brands. And full disclosure, I have no connections to any diecast brands, I'm just a dumb-*** collector. Does anyone really believe that the results would be significantly different from his survey results? I wish all of the manufacturers would make kick-*** models that are all better than NG and Panda so that we can change the course of these discussions. Thanks for keeping DAC the Wild West of diecast aircraft forums!
Harvey
Thank you for your kind words. I am tempted to publish the entire e-mail trail (I won't because I don't need the ****) behind that thread where I was accused of being a whole range of things including a bully and a narcissist then threatened with legal action.
I am happy for people to criticise or disagree with my work IF they attack the work and not me personally. I am over being attacked personally for writing about models in what is frankly a much fairer way than the actions of several actors deserve. It is not good enough for people to complain about bias without actually stating where the bias is they perceive.
Anyway I make it clear in the review CrownVic how old the moulds are and that considering their age the comparison is a little moot. HOWEVER the Mk4 Gemini mould continues to be used in 2021 for new releases so please explain to me how it is not in the collectors interest to see such a review when there have been new releases of the American, Pan Am and United battleship 747SP from both JC Wings and NG Models in the past 6 months.
Surely collectors might be interested to know what they are buying?
I am surprised that Herpa was reviewed, I thought that it was an irrelevant company in 1/400
Well they made 3 in total so they are effectively yes but since I owned one I thought I'd take a look.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBL
My review is simpler, from 3 feet away there is not much difference between these 3, they are all nice
Which in a nutshell is why no one cares about your opinion
I might add I didn't say they weren't all nice. I own them so I must like them. Some are just nicer than others. You seem to struggle with this concept and the whole idea of even looking at the models. Presumably all yours are mint in box.
I won’t be in a rush to replace my old Gemini SPs with an NG 1 for 1. They’re still serviceable given their age. New purchases that I don’t have in my collection will definitely be NG though.
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Enjoying aviation from a "TSA-free Zone"!!
Take the money-grab & deceit out of our hobby, and bring back ethics and quality!!
Just say NO to Apollo400/Black Box/NG(No Good)/Panda Models/Junk-X/First Choice/C&C/IF400/Witty400/Magic/AV200/AK200/Flightline/Flightline200/Flightline400/Pegasus/Blue Angle/5stars & any BigBirds (real or fake)
The first sensible comment I have read here for a long time!! Very well said!
So is yours. Congrats.
Back on topic, I think reviewing just everything which is currently available and/or moulds still in use will be of interest. At least, it is to me. If we are talking about an “outdated” mould, and the related manufacturer does not want to be compared anymore to others, then this particular manufacturer should abandon his outdated mould. If it is continuously used, it has to be compared - that’s a pretty simple principle. Plus, the comparison on RStretton’s site clearly states that one of the moulds is going back a decade for its original version (Again, is it outdated? Then either stop using it or live with comparisons of current products!), and the other one 15 years. Let me quote:
“The moulds to be compared in this detailed comparison will be the following:
Gemini Jets v4 (2015 version) Mould - Also used by JC Wings / Skywings
Herpa 2006 Mould
NG Models 2020 Mould”
Great Review! I don’t often post but I read these forums regularly. I’d just like to echo that I really enjoy and appreciate your reviews/comparisons in 1:400. Probably one of, if not the most, credible, objective and detailed reviewers/collectors in the hobby.
I think your reviews are really helpful for people getting into the hobby and would like to know the strengths/weaknesses of each mould. It’s not like this is entirely about NG. If I found an Herpa/Gemini SP on eBay that I was looking at, these sort of showcases are really helpful in deciding whether they are worth purchasing.
I think your reviews are really helpful for people getting into the hobby and would like to know the strengths/weaknesses of each mould.
True ...but the new collectors who do rely on those reviews, number in the single digits..
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Gemini Jets 400 Scale....the company collectors love to hate but love to collect..
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Real tomato ketchup Eddie?
Nothing but the best! "I don't know why they call this stuff hamburger helper. It does just fine by itself, huh? I like it better than tuna helper myself, don't you, Clark?"
"you're the gourmet around here, Ed!"
I think your reviews are really helpful for people getting into the hobby and would like to know the strengths/weaknesses of each mould.
True ...but the new collectors who do rely on those reviews, number in the single digits..
I mean, that’s just opinion, I’m sure lots of collectors who have started the hobby have come across these reviews on google and used them to make their own opinions. The fact that a third of collectors who responded to those polls a few weeks ago were under 25 speaks a lot about new collectors coming into the hobby. Resources like Richard’s website are great for getting to grips with moulds/manufacturers etc.!
Not everyone is aware of older moulds if they’ve not been collecting for a decade or so, so it’s great to see them reviewed in such detail.
For older, established collectors these reviews may seem pointless as they may feel that they know all the moulds inside and out. But for people who’ve only been collecting a few years, it’s nice to have reviews of all these older moulds in one place!
It’s not like he’s telling people to avoid certain moulds, some may read a review and decide that they’ll only buy the best, others may be happy with the less accurate moulds. But that’s the point, these comparisons let the reader see the pros and cons of each mould for a particular aircraft type.
For older, established collectors these reviews may seem pointless as they may feel that they know all the moulds inside and out. But for people who’ve only been collecting a few years, it’s nice to have reviews of all these older moulds in one place!
It’s not like he’s telling people to avoid certain moulds, some may read a review and decide that they’ll only buy the best, others may be happy with the less accurate moulds. But that’s the point, these comparisons let the reader see the pros and cons of each mould for a particular aircraft type.
Callileo - On target. Simple as that - less harassment of reviewers would be appreciated. The reviews here are not the splashy YouTube 'unboxing' variety, but quite helpful in making our choices among better new moulds with increasing prices. Doug
__________________
Gemini Jets 400 Scale....the company collectors love to hate but love to collect..
__________________
Real tomato ketchup Eddie?
Nothing but the best! "I don't know why they call this stuff hamburger helper. It does just fine by itself, huh? I like it better than tuna helper myself, don't you, Clark?"
"you're the gourmet around here, Ed!"
Callileo - On target. Simple as that - less harassment of reviewers would be appreciated. The reviews here are not the splashy YouTube 'unboxing' variety, but quite helpful in making our choices among better new moulds with increasing prices. Doug
Fair statement I agree, but as you can see the reviewers posts are never deleted here...
__________________
Gemini Jets 400 Scale....the company collectors love to hate but love to collect..
__________________
Real tomato ketchup Eddie?
Nothing but the best! "I don't know why they call this stuff hamburger helper. It does just fine by itself, huh? I like it better than tuna helper myself, don't you, Clark?"
"you're the gourmet around here, Ed!"
Resources like Richard’s website are great for getting to grips with moulds/manufacturers etc.!
Not everyone is aware of older moulds if they’ve not been collecting for a decade or so, so it’s great to see them reviewed in such detail.
For older, established collectors these reviews may seem pointless as they may feel that they know all the moulds inside and out. But for people who’ve only been collecting a few years, it’s nice to have reviews of all these older moulds in one place!
But that’s the point, these comparisons let the reader see the pros and cons of each mould for a particular aircraft type.
I think you are correct on many points.
This is a very niche hobby and that there are indeed very few info ressources for a newcomer to find his way.
The best ones are the database (DIMA, DAC, Wings900...) and their associated forum but they are not easy to access (not through google).
Then there are the numerous reviews from facebook, websites and the likes, including the famous unboxing.
These are nice, funny, interesting but are usually partial (as in incomplete) and sometimes biased, not willingly but because they lack the required disclaimers (the most important one being Buy what you like and like what you buy).
I like reading these amateur reviews because as an oldtimer I am able to distinguish the truth from fake and I am always learning stuff. The problem is with newcomers.
They are not equipped with the tools to challenge what they read or see and may end up missing on models they would have liked because they purchased the one that other liked and were told to buy.
Again, models are like wine: the good one is the one that you like!
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These are nice, funny, interesting but are usually partial (as in incomplete) and sometimes biased, not willingly but because they lack the required disclaimers (the most important one being Buy what you like and like what you buy).
That disclaimer is nonsensical - firstly because it is obvious and secondly because it is a shield for people to hide behind, which allows for any and all sins to be ignored. People should buy what they like - but what they like is better determined after they have seen evidence to back it up. This is the way every business sector operates. Do you have problems with film reviews, product reviews etc etc etc too? Do you jump on film sites and leave comments like "go and see what you like and like what you see"? No I assume you don't because you'd get laughed out of town.
It is this evidence based system you seem so against and see bias in. I rarely tell people not to buy things but I do provide a s**t ton of evidence about the models. Even if you disagree with my words the photos alone speak volumes.
Your issue is that you seem totally against someone daring to actually discuss the models and have an evidence based opinion. You almost never attack any of the content and always go for the credibility of the reviewer, which I find distasteful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBL
I like reading these amateur reviews because as an oldtimer I am able to distinguish the truth from fake and I am always learning stuff. The problem is with newcomers.
They are not equipped with the tools to challenge what they read or see and may end up missing on models they would have liked because they purchased the one that other liked and were told to buy.
With all due respect you are not some mystical sage because you have collected models for ages. Many new collectors are adults and I would argue that age is not a factor in being able to make sensible decisions based off of evidence. New collectors are just as, and often better equipped, to make decisions because they are not wedded to any brand loyalty.
Anyone who really believes 'new collectors who do rely on those reviews, number in the single digits..' is living in a fantasy land but if that is true and if Gemini are really nailing it and having their best year ever then it is surprising what an impressive backlash my reviews get from people threatened by them and how amazingly litigious certain manufacturers and brands are when they feel threatened.
As an attempt to get this thread back on-track, NG's SP mold is something that I've been wanting in my collection for a while, as I don't have one yet. However, it's safe to say that might change soon...
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