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Old 09-06-2020, 01:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Gemini resorting to plastics?

Hello Everyone.

So I've been buying Gemini since I started Collecting 1:400 scale Models. I've been buying the 787 mould for sometime now and the tails of the airplanes have been made of metal. To my surprise with their latest 787 release, the Qatar Airways Boeing 787-9 A7-BHA, the tail and horizontal stabilizers are plastic! Will we see the plastic and diecast combo that Jet-X has done 20 years ago?

What do you all think?
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Old 09-06-2020, 01:21 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

I've never had problems with Dragon Wings/Jet-X models because of the plastic parts they used. As long as the model stays intact, I guess I don't really care either way. I think we've all seen the photos of one of this forum member's Emirates A380 by GJ with the broken wings due to zinc rot. A bonus for using plastics is you don't have to worry about that kind of stuff.

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Old 09-06-2020, 03:36 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C141*Lifter View Post
I've never had problems with Dragon Wings/Jet-X models because of the plastic parts they used. As long as the model stays intact, I guess I don't really care either way. I think we've all seen the photos of one of this forum member's Emirates A380 by GJ with the broken wings due to zinc rot. A bonus for using plastics is you don't have to worry about that kind of stuff.

Harvey
True, but when you've got fierce competition from both NG and phoenix and that your paying close to £50 a model, you would expect it to be made of Diecast.

I understand aswell that plastics are sometimes used in moulds to balance it out as they can become too heavy and start tipping back.
However I'm not aware that Geminis 787 mould has that issue, it mainly affected smaller aircraft so it's a bit confusing to me as to why they would use them.
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Old 09-06-2020, 04:03 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

GJ have used plastics before, the early 747 vertical stabilisers for example. I also don't mind if it helps to lower the costs because if models keep becoming a £50 purchase experience this hobby and myself will soon be parting ways.
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Old 09-06-2020, 04:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

This is complete nonsense and that is being said by someone who is no big fan of Gemini.

You know what? Gemini 787s have been poor for a while because they have continued to use their old cradle mount mould. Now they have upgraded significantly to the JC Wings mould, which is exceptional, and you are complaining that the vertical stabiliser is plastic?

So you were ok with the huge wing seam and other inaccuracies of the old mould but you have a problem with a bit of plastic? What exactly is the difference in your view between plastic and metal for this element?

Then you compare Gemini to NG and Phoenix? Phoenix? I mean for starters their 787 is the 2nd weakest in the market (before the old Gemini cradle mount), their printing is the weakest of all the major manufacturers and their QC is as bad as anyones.

All the manufacturers have and will continue to use plastic parts for detailed elements (most commonly engines, undercarriage and pylons). Plastic vertical stabilisers are not uncommon either (especially with JC moulds - for example their 737NGs have them and Gemini also uses those).

You should be applauding them for upgrading to the best 787 in 400 scale really. Given that they have only used this mould because of the flaps down variant and there's a decent chance you'll be seeing the old naff mould again soon anyway.
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Last edited by RStretton; 09-06-2020 at 04:29 AM.
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Old 09-06-2020, 05:15 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

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Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
GJ have used plastics before, the early 747 vertical stabilisers for example. I also don't mind if it helps to lower the costs because if models keep becoming a £50 purchase experience this hobby and myself will soon be parting ways.

Hey, Al. I'm a 'plastic, no problem', guy too, and I'm cutting back my buying, having about what I want with discrete collections of particular eras/liveries with just over 300 models and an over $10,000 'investment' in the hobby. I will go for a few of those upcoming 747 mould releases, and I just pre-ordered the Gemini Jets A400 Luftwaffe very reasonably from PandaFox - crazy about that airplane and saw one taxiing around IAD last spring. Those new 747s will probably challenge your £50 limit, but gotta have a few... Doug

Last edited by doug seeley; 09-06-2020 at 05:31 AM. Reason: 'taxiing'
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Old 09-06-2020, 06:22 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug seeley View Post
Hey, Al. I'm a 'plastic, no problem', guy too, and I'm cutting back my buying, having about what I want with discrete collections of particular eras/liveries with just over 300 models and an over $10,000 'investment' in the hobby. I will go for a few of those upcoming 747 mould releases, and I just pre-ordered the Gemini Jets A400 Luftwaffe very reasonably from PandaFox - crazy about that airplane and saw one taxiing around IAD last spring. Those new 747s will probably challenge your £50 limit, but gotta have a few... Doug
I don't see why plastic parts should not be acceptable 'to a degree' as long as they are shaped and detailed correctly and with detailed printing. If it's a case of you not knowing it's plastic until you touch it, so much the better. All over zinc, as desirable as that may be, is becoming prohibitive in overall cost terms. Perhaps s less expensive alloy could be explored eventually ? I suspect I'm not the only one currently being priced out of the market.
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Old 09-06-2020, 06:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
...I suspect I'm not the only one currently being priced out of the market.
...no, you certainly are not! I've seen how the prices of new releases have risen in the UK, at ARD and other retailers, I think the virus has mucked a lot of things up, and upon returning home soon I'm going to have to think hard about how much I can continue spending on this hobby.


I don't have a problem with plastic parts either, when done well, and effectively capture the finer details as we see on most contemporary models made these days.
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Old 09-06-2020, 07:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
Perhaps s less expensive alloy could be explored eventually ?
Attached is the Phoenix Etihad A380 Reg. A6-APA, and I believe it's a well regarded mould - an aluminum casting, noticeably lighter than corresponding zinc versions. I'm guessing that aluminum is no less expensive to cast? Over, Doug
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Old 09-06-2020, 09:08 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

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Originally Posted by doug seeley View Post
Attached is the Phoenix Etihad A380 Reg. A6-APA, and I believe it's a well regarded mould - an aluminum casting, noticeably lighter than corresponding zinc versions. I'm guessing that aluminum is no less expensive to cast? Over, Doug
I'm sure I read that aluminium has a higher melting point than zinc and is therefore higher cost to produce albeit cheaper to purchase as raw material ? I posted a link about that on here some time ago. Maybe I'm mistaken but I think that's the case. But yes the Phoenix A380 is notably lighter than the GJ equivalent.

Another factor is ever increasing labour costs, especially in China where standard of living expectations are increasing at a rate seen in the west 40 years ago, which ironically saw production move out there in lots of cases. Perhaps the tide will inevitably turn in a constantly revolving pattern between east and west ?
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Old 09-06-2020, 01:51 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

Disgust from the China Coronavirus coverup, HK treaty abrogation, and other factors will send many packing, rising labor costs notwithstanding.

As to the original post, there are many diecast models with plastic tails to overcome WEIGHT & BALANCE issues, unless you don't want the model to sit properly on it's landing gear. Just a thought!!
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Old 09-06-2020, 04:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

Hi,

in personal I prefer metal prior to plastic parts where possible, because it is heavier and it feels good and is probably also more robust too. But I think manufacturer will produce plastic parts in high (end?) quality nowadays. I don't like it, seeing the light shining through the stabilizers edges or seeing white parts yellowing, that is not nice.

with best regards,
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Old 09-06-2020, 04:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

OP, the real 1 to 1 has plastic as well as composites...just saying!

Hell Jawomba, you don't need plastic for the finish to yellow! Many metal planes that are relatively new from many manufacturers yellow! I am hoping my JC200 Air India 747-400 NC yellows as they screwed that one up and painted it bright white, when it should be an off white with a hint of tan!
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Old 09-06-2020, 04:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jawomba View Post
Hi, I don't like it, seeing the light shining through the stabilizers edges or seeing white parts yellowing, that is not nice.
with best regards, Jan
Hi, Jan - I was going to mention this opaque quality of some plastic parts too, and that problem seems to be limited to Herpa, where sometimes the plastic is colored but not painted, and results in a lousy effect. Some very expensive Herpa Premiums suffer the yellowing you speak of, and from my point of view, that's as every bit as bad as the opaque problem. Doug
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Old 09-06-2020, 08:50 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

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OP, the real 1 to 1 has plastic as well as composites...just saying!

That was my first thought. Sounds like Gemini is stepping up the realism!


I personally don't care what the model is made of as long as it looks realistic and accurate. If plastic wings and stabilizers accomplish that, more power to the manufacturers. I never got why people hated on Dragon Wings and Jet X for that back in the day and still don't. Does it feel different when you handle the model? Of course, but I'm not playing with them (most of the time anyway) and you can't tell what's what when the model is sitting on static display.


Quote:
Originally Posted by planeoldwill View Post
True, but when you've got fierce competition from both NG and phoenix and that your paying close to £50 a model, you would expect it to be made of Diecast.

But why does it have to be diecast metal? I thought we were paying for accuracy and realism, not materials.
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Old 09-06-2020, 08:58 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

Honestly, in my opinion, if moulding parts in quality painted plastic parts leads to a more accurate and finer replication of the real aircraft, I don't see any conflict. If a manufacturer came along and moulded a highly accurate model out of ABS plastic (the good stuff they use to make Lego bricks out of) and then fully painted the model, I wouldn't hesitate to add that model to my collection.

If the plastic components were clearly a mediocre replacement for a metal part to cut costs, then most collectors will be able to tell it was a cheap attempt. At the end of the day, I personally identify as a model aircraft collector, not a metal collector...

Happy collecting!
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Old 09-06-2020, 09:21 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

As to the original post, there are many diecast models with plastic tails to overcome WEIGHT & BALANCE issues, unless you don't want the model to sit properly on it's landing gear. Just a thought!![/QUOTE]

Yes, this reason...I have some early Gemini 737-500s and 737-800s, and they are tail heavy, very hard if not impossible to keep them off of their tails.
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Old 09-06-2020, 09:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aklein707 View Post
Disgust from the China Coronavirus coverup, HK treaty abrogation, and other factors will send many packing, rising labor costs notwithstanding.

As to the original post, there are many diecast models with plastic tails to overcome WEIGHT & BALANCE issues, unless you don't want the model to sit properly on it's landing gear. Just a thought!!

Yes, this reason. I have some early Gemini 737-500s and 737-800s that are tail heavy. very difficult to keep them off of their tails.
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Old 09-15-2020, 04:59 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcahea View Post
OP, the real 1 to 1 has plastic as well as composites...just saying!

Hell Jawomba, you don't need plastic for the finish to yellow! Many metal planes that are relatively new from many manufacturers yellow! I am hoping my JC200 Air India 747-400 NC yellows as they screwed that one up and painted it bright white, when it should be an off white with a hint of tan!
Yes, I know I also experienced this with some of the models, ... but I didn't realized it until I exhibited such ones beside those white ones that are brighter. I shouldn't place them together. The affected ones tends towards ivory color.
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:20 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

I support whatever manufacturing method can bring high quality at reasonable cost. If a plastic part can be produced with better accuracy or detail than a metal one, or the same accuracy or detail at a lower cost (or for better W&B), then I fully support this change.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:52 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

A fine example would be the all die cast/metal 747 that Phoenix has (can we even call it a 747?) and the Dragon Wings part metal/part plastic 747. I know which one I'll be going for!
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:30 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

For a diecast model, I want fuselage, wings, stabs, and tail made of metal. Sorry. If it's made properly there won't be zinc rot.

I get Dragons where no one else has done an airliner I want and isn't likely to. Some of their moulds are good (even if the landing gear are simple). But they're a second choice.

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Old 09-16-2020, 02:43 AM   #23 (permalink)
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As some others have mentioned, I don't mind occasional plastic parts as long as it's reflected in the price. £50 for a half plastic model is rediculous, I may aswell get a skymarks model! I also only expect this in models with w+b issues, the regional aircraft and the A320 spring to mind.
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Old 09-16-2020, 04:44 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

One of my GJ Q400's just tail-strikes continuously.
Speaking of w+b, anyone remember this?
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Kore...MD-11-F/712588
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:17 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

747438: Speaking of w+b, anyone remember this?

See? No plastic tail! Doug
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:03 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
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747438: Speaking of w+b, anyone remember this?

See? No plastic tail! Doug

Why doesn't mine do that?
Sadly, mine is actually the Gemini version, HL7373 - the ill fated KE6316, interesting why Gemini chose this specific rego.
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Old 09-17-2020, 10:03 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Let me put on my flak jacket before saying this....plastic is a superior medium for these models. You can get much crisper details on a plastic mould. The overall model is lighter. Just take a look at the beautiful Inflight 200 polished Eastern L-1011 - great model that weighs the same as a real L-1011! Sold off many of my large 200 scale models because I was scared my glass shelves would collapse. Zinc-rot, non-issue for a plastic mould. If they can prevent yellowing, its the way to go. I would also imagine lighting could be easily incorporated into a plastic mould - something I would love to see in 1/200. I think StarJets really had something with their 200 scale line. I know they are built kits, but just do a quick Google image search of Brad Shinn to see the full-potential of a plastic model. Blows away anything die cast. I've collected 1/600, 1/400, and 1/200 die cast models since Schabek was the only game in town. I'd gladly jump ship if a manufacturer produced high quality plastic models the likes of Herpa Premium.

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Old 09-17-2020, 10:13 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Gemini resorting to plastics?

Honestly i'd have no issue with plastics, especially in 1/200, the gemini plastics Delta 737-700 was a beautiful model, and was half the price of the metal counterpart
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