Who is the Best? I hate that question. - DA.C
 

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Old 06-08-2020, 07:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Who is the Best? I hate that question.

Hi Guys. Recent events on Facebook have led me to the conclusion that a lot of collectors, on social media at least, don't know much about much. Therefore I have reluctantly decided to write an intro to 1:400 models section to the site to help people make better decisions.

The first piece for this covers the most annoying question I see being asked which is 'Who is the best brand?'. I hate this question as it strikes me as being a bit stupid. So partly so I don't find myself writing the same thing every week on Facebook here is my rebuttal of that question. Hopefully it'll help me sound less like a grumpy git online but it probably won't! At the least I can point people to this page.

I don't expect this is any news to the majority of people on DAC but hey you might get a laugh from it anyway.

https://www.yesterdaysairlines.com/who-is-the-best.html
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Old 06-09-2020, 02:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who is the Best? I hate that question.

Great intro. In honesty it's not easy for new collectors to get a grasp of some of these things and what you've shared in the article would be very helpful to any new beginner.

This is coming from someone who's only just started collecting for 2 months - and with around 60 jets under my belt (and more on order), I'm starting to get a decent feel of things. Owning and being able to inspect in person the moulds of the same aircraft made by different brands certainly helps in developing an appreciation of the different brands.

Perhaps the greatest thing I learnt at the beginning was that there is no single brand that is best at every model. Each brand can be strong in different moulds/aircraft types, while not every single release by a brand of a particular mould will always be of equal quality. This was the first question I had as a new collector as well and while searching online, I believe I read this on an old thread in this forum discussing 747s. Another thing which took time to learn was the way models are priced, especially on the secondary market.

With my small but growing collection, I've been able to come to my own opinion as to the quality of the different brands. I'll keep that to myself for now as many others on here would have a lot more experience than I do on that front. Richard's website has some great articles on mould comparisons - which I frequently refer to.
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:42 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who is the Best? I hate that question.

It's a very irritating question but I can understand why people ask it.

Basically just gotta tell them they all have their merits but in most cases, beggars can't be choosers. If something strikes your eye you're better off getting it instead of waiting for a better brand to do it. Although we have seen a lot of manufacturers make the same model, in most cases it's one or nothing.

But then it comes down to aircraft. Phoenix is better at some while JC and Gemini are better than others
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Old 06-09-2020, 08:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who is the Best? I hate that question.

Oh man number 3. "OMG Gemini sent a model with a wing detached. Where's the quality inspection? Gemini give me refund."

Then there's me. Oh damn my model is broken, guess I'll have to do a two second repair job to fix it. I won't lie, I like to find broken stuff and see if my retailers will give me a discount on it
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Old 06-09-2020, 11:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who is the Best? I hate that question.

If asked that question, I would ask in reply, "What are you looking for?" Once I learn what aircraft types, period, airliners, someone is interested in, I could start discussing specific moulds and makers, which involves the points you discuss.

Jim
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The greatest need in 1:400: Reissues of Major Passenger-Carrier 747 Classics: -100/200, -300, and SP, of NG / Aeroclassics / Big Bird Mk. 1 quality. Examples: American; United Blue-Star, Bass; TWA double globe, double stripe; Pan Am delivery; British Airways Negus, Landor; KLM 70's-80's blue top; Air France 70's-80's; Lufthansa 70's-80's; Aer Lingus delivery; Sabena 80's circle-s; Japan Air Lines 70's-80s; All Nippon 70's; and Qantas 70's-80's.
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Old 06-09-2020, 11:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who is the Best? I hate that question.

I think that sometimes there is no the best or the most accurate mould but the most favorite one, then I would like to choose the one released by my favorite mould.
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Old 06-10-2020, 12:00 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who is the Best? I hate that question.

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Originally Posted by BWI-ROCman View Post
If asked that question, I would ask in reply, "What are you looking for?" Once I learn what aircraft types, period, airliners, someone is interested in, I could start discussing specific moulds and makers, which involves the points you discuss.

Jim
Yeah problem is on Facebook you just get an avalanche of half-baked nonsense comments from people with opinions that frankly aren't worth listening too.
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Old 06-10-2020, 07:17 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who is the Best? I hate that question.

I don't do Facebook or any other social media stuff. Too much (worthless) information. Email and the web handle everything I need. Also, these recent posts on manufacturers/moulds have been quite good and very helpful, Doug
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Old 06-10-2020, 05:38 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I don't do Facebook or any other social media stuff. Too much (worthless) information. Email and the web handle everything I need. Also, these recent posts on manufacturers/moulds have been quite good and very helpful, Doug
Glad to hear it Doug. Sadly most people under 30 don't do forums and many don't do even Facebook anymore so all they have are things like Youtube and Instagram, which are easily the weakest channels available for information.
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Old 06-10-2020, 10:33 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who is the Best? I hate that question.

Just found the earlier thread from February which I read when I was first learning the ropes, titled "what are the best 1:400 brands?": https://www.diecastaircraftforum.com...00-brands.html

I've got no affiliation to this, but just a video I watched at the start which gave an intro to model collection (perhaps a question to ask even before what brand to collect, is the scale you want to collect it in, as each scale has a different host of brands). Just looked it up from my youtube watch history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjH268cydXQ . Not everyone will agree with the comments said of the brands, but before developing your own views as a collector, it's a good intro.
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Old 06-10-2020, 10:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hiki08 View Post
Just found the earlier thread from February which I read when I was first learning the ropes, titled "what are the best 1:400 brands?": https://www.diecastaircraftforum.com...00-brands.html

I've got no affiliation to this, but just a video I watched at the start which gave an intro to model collection (perhaps a question to ask even before what brand to collect, is the scale you want to collect it in, as each scale has a different host of brands). Just looked it up from my youtube watch history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjH268cydXQ . Not everyone will agree with the comments said of the brands, but before developing your own views as a collector, it's a good intro.
Straight away watching that, the guy launches into him thinking Gemini are the best and look at the detail etc. He doesn't have any evidence to back up what he says and the detail he points out is common to all 1:400s. He then compares it to a Dragon Wings model that is at least a decade older and then for some reason chooses a 1:400 Herpa. he only knows what he has and nothing else and he has not a great deal by the look of it. This is exactly the kind of drivel I'm trying to kill. Opinion with no evidence and knowledge. Harsh but that's my feeling on it.

He may some useful things about 1:400 vs 1:200 but almost everything he says about 1:400 is nonsense. I ****ing hate Youtube model reviews
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Old 06-10-2020, 10:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Straight away watching that, the guy launches into him thinking Gemini are the best and look at the detail etc. He doesn't have any evidence to back up what he says and the detail he points out is common to all 1:400s. He then compares it to a Dragon Wings model that is at least a decade older and then for some reason chooses a 1:400 Herpa. he only knows what he has and nothing else and he has not a great deal by the look of it. This is exactly the kind of drivel I'm trying to kill. Opinion with no evidence and knowledge. Harsh but that's my feeling on it.

He may some useful things about 1:400 vs 1:200 but almost everything he says about 1:400 is nonsense. I ****ing hate Youtube model reviews [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Haha just what I was expecting you'd say. I agree the comments about brands is probably not something that everyone would (should) agree with but that's his opinion and I'll respect that. With your keen eye, spotting the age of the moulds and drawing a comparison would certainly put things in better perspective.

From my limited collection experience and not having ever owned a Gemini, purely from reading people's reviews and seeing photos of them, my impression of them is like a Toyota of the modelling world. It'll be passable, reliable and probably works great for most people who aren't demanding or critical. They're mass market with many liveries available. They do make some good things too but they're more conservative and you probably won't find as many bells and whistles as in some other brands.
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Old 06-10-2020, 11:35 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Haha just what I was expecting you'd say. I agree the comments about brands is probably not something that everyone would (should) agree with but that's his opinion and I'll respect that. With your keen eye, spotting the age of the moulds and drawing a comparison would certainly put things in better perspective.

From my limited collection experience and not having ever owned a Gemini, purely from reading people's reviews and seeing photos of them, my impression of them is like a Toyota of the modelling world. It'll be passable, reliable and probably works great for most people who aren't demanding or critical. They're mass market with many liveries available. They do make some good things too but they're more conservative and you probably won't find as many bells and whistles as in some other brands.
It's not his opinion that bothers me, it is perfectly legitimate for him to think Gemini are best. It is the fact that he is spouting it as if he knows what he's talking about when he clearly doesn't. It isn't a matter of me agreeing with his conclusion just that the mechanism he used to make it is complete rubbish and my 9 year old could do a better job explaining it.

He says Gemini are the best and shows 3 1:400 brands (1 of which is extinct and 1 of which is irrelevent). He doesn't even mention other brands or any suggestion of how he got to his result and then suggests Gemini have better quality etc by quoting features every brand has. He is basically a moron.

I actually have that Air China Gemini 747-8 and it is a bloody good release but even so what he is saying and why are bollocks. That is my issue. It isn't his opinion it is that he has failed miserably to have any kind of reason for it.

The fact that people are so stupid that they praise him and think what he is doing is valid is an embarrassing indictment of how much trouble people have doing the simplest analysis or reasoning and one of the major reasons why they keep on voting for imbecilic ****wits like Trump. I admit that for a new collector this may be hard to discern but that is why he shouldn't be doing what he is.

US education and television has a lot to answer for.
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Old 06-11-2020, 08:42 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Who is the Best? I hate that question.

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Originally Posted by RStretton View Post
It isn't his opinion it is that he has failed miserably to have any kind of reason for it.

US education and television has a lot to answer for.
This is totally not directed at you hiki08, or anyone on this thread, just me agreeing with Richard, but:

Most people think that everyone’s opinions matter, but they are wrong. Only informed, intelligent opinions matter; all other opinions are just noise from fools who delight in hearing their own meaningless voices.

"Fools find no pleasure in understanding
but delight in airing their own opinions."
Proverbs 18:2


I'm not sure if this is strictly a US problem, but culturally we do have seem to have conflated "free speech" with "everything I say is meaningful" and that's just not the case.
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Old 06-11-2020, 08:48 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hiki08 View Post
From my limited collection experience and not having ever owned a Gemini, purely from reading people's reviews and seeing photos of them, my impression of them is like a Toyota of the modelling world. It'll be passable, reliable and probably works great for most people who aren't demanding or critical.
It really just depends. Their printing quality and color accuracy are often the best of any brand. I just got the new NG NWA 757 in the final silver colors, and I'm considering selling it and keeping my old Gemini even though the mould is inferior, because I think GJ nailed the colors where NG didn't. This is the crux of what Richard is saying, you just can't make a blanket statement about any brand.
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My holy grails:

Sun Country 727-200 late 1990's colors
Alrosa Tu-154 latest colors / Tu-134 old colors
Yamal & Interjet SSJ-100
Kenya Airways 737-800 New colors

Flown on: A300/310/319/320/321/332/333/343/380 AN24/28/38/148 ATR42/72 B190
B717/722/732/3/4/5/7/8/9 B741/744/752/753/762/763/764/772/773/788/789 C206/208/402
CR1/2/7/9 D8S D93/4/5 DHC2/3T/7/8-200/Q400 Do228/328J E110/120/135/140/145/170/175/190
F50/100 JS31 L10/15 L410 MD11/82/83/87/88/90 RJ85 S340 SSJ100 Tu134/154 Yak42
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Old 06-11-2020, 01:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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This is totally not directed at you hiki08, or anyone on this thread, just me agreeing with Richard, but:
Geez Denny, it's only you me and Richard here on this thread so far! (Tongue in cheek)

I agree with your statement but with the caveat that what "matters" is strictly limited to mean purposeful or influential. Otherwise I'm a person who thinks all opinion matters no matter how poorly informed or concluded it is because it is fact that the circumstances led that person to that opinion. Don't worry - I take all opinion with a grain of salt (not good for the blood pressure).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennypayne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiki08 View Post
From my limited collection experience and not having ever owned a Gemini...
It really just depends. Their printing quality and color accuracy are often the best of any brand. I just got the new NG NWA 757 in the final silver colors, and I'm considering selling it and keeping my old Gemini even though the mould is inferior, because I think GJ nailed the colors where NG didn't. This is the crux of what Richard is saying, you just can't make a blanket statement about any brand.
I completely forgot I just ordered a Gemini British Airways 747-400 in Landor which arrived today. Just opened it up tonight. Quite a beauty - not an absolute stunner just holding it in the hands without detailed comparison but I do like the painting and overall details.

I believe I read in one of Richard's articles that Gemini gets the true colour data from airlines and are (usually) properly licensed to do so? Hopefully I haven't mixed this up with another brand (Herpa?). I know ANA Trading engages (occasionally retooled) Hogan...
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Old 06-11-2020, 01:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I believe I read in one of Richard's articles that Gemini gets the true colour data from airlines and are (usually) properly licensed to do so? Hopefully I haven't mixed this up with another brand (Herpa?).
I think both Herpa and Gemini do this. It's pretty rare to see either of those brands get the colors wrong. It's too bad Herpa mostly ignores 1:400.
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My holy grails:

Sun Country 727-200 late 1990's colors
Alrosa Tu-154 latest colors / Tu-134 old colors
Yamal & Interjet SSJ-100
Kenya Airways 737-800 New colors

Flown on: A300/310/319/320/321/332/333/343/380 AN24/28/38/148 ATR42/72 B190
B717/722/732/3/4/5/7/8/9 B741/744/752/753/762/763/764/772/773/788/789 C206/208/402
CR1/2/7/9 D8S D93/4/5 DHC2/3T/7/8-200/Q400 Do228/328J E110/120/135/140/145/170/175/190
F50/100 JS31 L10/15 L410 MD11/82/83/87/88/90 RJ85 S340 SSJ100 Tu134/154 Yak42
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