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Old 02-20-2020, 11:57 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Cancer Awareness Models....

Question...

Other manufacturers such as Gemini Jets and Skymarks pay royalties for a great cause to the Breast Cancer Awareness Foundation and Stand Up to Cancer with their model sales. Does NG or any other manufacturer have a similar arrangement with their Delta 757 and American A321 models?

I can probably answer that as a NO

I'm not sure the collectors care, but I don' think playing off a charity, is good business ethics...

NOTE: I HAVE CHANGED THE ORIGINAL TITLE OF THIS THREAD AS I SHOULD NOT HAVE SINGLED ONE BRAND IN PARTICULAR.
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

Time for another opening of a can of worms? I guess I don't really care because I don't buy breast cancer awareness themed models.

If this is a way for manufacturers to donate funds to these causes, are any of the manufacturers showcasing how much they've contributed to the cause? A great marketing methodology to show the manufacturer cares. Where can those interested find how much Gemini Jets, JC Wings, Herpa, and AeroClassics contributed to the cause? I can't imagine manufacturers would go to the trouble of coming up with a model with the theme and paying royalties and not trumpeting how much they've contributed to the cause. Maybe it's all on the Facebook pages, but since I don't FB, I wouldn't know.

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Old 02-20-2020, 12:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

I don't really see this as playing off of a charity. Would it be nice if NG donated some of their profits to support the Breast Cancer Awareness Foundation? Absolutely, its a great cause, but I don't really see this as profiting off of the foundation, they're profiting off of a special livery that an airline put on one of their planes. Herpa, Aeroclassics, and JC Wings have all released breast cancer models at some point too, not sure if any of them donate money but if you're gonna start shaming manufacturers its only fair to include all of them.
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

Question for CrownVic. Did not JC Wings make a breast cancer livery model recently? Oh yes they did - here it is:

https://www.diecastmodelaircraft.com/db/model/77118

Did they pay for the rights for this model? I doubt it and I am pretty certain they wouldn't have made it without Gemini's agreement as they simply don't make US models competing with Gemini.

So in that context have NG done anything that others haven't?
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

Let me rephrase the topic then,

I guess Gemini and Skymarks are the only idiots fooled into having to donate proceeds of their sales based on their legal obligation and consent prior to production brought on by Delta and American. let the collector enjoy..
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

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Originally Posted by RStretton View Post
Question for CrownVic. Did not JC Wings make a breast cancer livery model recently? Oh yes they did - here it is:

https://www.diecastmodelaircraft.com/db/model/77118

Did they pay for the rights for this model? I doubt it and I am pretty certain they wouldn't have made it without Gemini's agreement as they simply don't make US models competing with Gemini.

So in that context have NG done anything that others haven't?
Don't forget the ERJ-145 (1/400 and 1/200) and the 757 released too.

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Old 02-20-2020, 12:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

Quote:
Originally Posted by RStretton View Post
Question for CrownVic. Did not JC Wings make a breast cancer livery model recently? Oh yes they did - here it is:

https://www.diecastmodelaircraft.com/db/model/77118

Did they pay for the rights for this model? I doubt it and I am pretty certain they wouldn't have made it without Gemini's agreement as they simply don't make US models competing with Gemini.

So in that context have NG done anything that others haven't?
I will answer that...Gemini has no control over what JC produces and JC does not ask their permission...Like I said earlier, Gemini and Skymarks are the only ones paying a royalty because the lawyers are up their a** if they didnt.
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

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Let me rephrase the topic then,

I guess Gemini and Skymarks are the only idiots fooled into having to donate proceeds of their sales based on their legal obligation and consent prior to production brought on by Delta and American. let the collector enjoy..
Can you definitively say that AeroClassics, JC Wings, and Herpa have not donated?

Harvey
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

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I will answer that...Gemini has no control over what JC produces and JC does not ask their permission...Like I said earlier, Gemini and Skymarks are the only ones paying a royalty because the lawyers are up their a** if they didnt.
Not that I really care, but having had to do many presentations in marketing classes in college, does Gemini show how much they've donated to the cause? Seems a waste if they are paying the money but not showcasing this...

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Old 02-20-2020, 12:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

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Can you definitively say that AeroClassics, JC Wings, and Herpa have not donated?

Harvey
1000000% yes...the royalties are discussed and agree upon prior to the model going into production.

Like I said, most collectors could care less... Charity or no Charity.
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

I realize US companies play with one arm tied behind their back since we have to play by the rules. It was discussed recently in the media that the current US President complained why US companies can't pay bribes to foreign companies to generate more business since the rest of the world doesn't seem to be bound by a law like the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. This is a rule we as a people placed on ourselves for the right reasons, but comes with huge business consequences.

As long as these kind of laws are in place, the U.S. has no shortage of lawyers who will be all over U.S. companies if they even get a whiff of a violation and will also be all over advising U.S. companies to prevent such violations.

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Old 02-20-2020, 12:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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As Crownvic mentioned lawyers...I will say lawyers go where the money is at...so Gemini being a big dog on the block probably gets more scrutiny than the others!
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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As Crownvic mentioned lawyers...I will say lawyers go where the money is at...so Gemini being a big dog on the block probably gets more scrutiny than the others!
I don't think lawyers really care how big the company is. They'll go wherever there is a money making opportunity. Are any of the other manufacturers US companies?

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Old 02-20-2020, 01:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

...depends on the lawyer I guess, but you can't get as much juice from a raisin as you can a plump grape!

ahh, I don't care as I don't have a dog in this fight, just bored! Maybe I need to buy something!

You get your AC200 JAA and JAL 8's Harvey?
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Old 02-20-2020, 01:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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...depends on the lawyer I guess, but you can't get as much juice from a raisin as you can a plump grape!

ahh, I don't care as I don't have a dog in this fight, just bored! Maybe I need to buy something!

You get your AC200 JAA and JAL 8's Harvey?
I think with the crap ton of lawyers we have in this country, lawyers will take legal action first and then ask questions later. I don't think they care if the legal action puts a company out of business. That in effect takes care of the "problem".

Yep got those DC-8s. Beautiful models, but lots of regret. They are huge and I have no place to put them. Just sitting in the closet. Unless I get something to display them in, they will probably come out a decade from now to sell. I'm fine with little 1/200 scale CRJs and ERJs and the short 737-500 I got from you, but these stretch DC-8s are just too big. What was I thinking!! Perfectly happy with the 1/400 scale twin set I got from you.

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Old 02-20-2020, 02:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

I hear ya!

Let me know if it was such a regret you want to sell the JAA sooner rather than later.

It is hard to display all the 1:200 stuff! I would have stayed with 1:400 if it weren't for my aging eyesight! Anything larger than 1:400 can be a slippery slope!
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Old 02-20-2020, 05:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

I think it would be a very welcome gesture if more manufacturers contributed to charity. So if this is what crownvic wants to achieve...thumbs up.

However, if this is another Gemini Jets publicity stunt pointing fingers at others...it's lame.
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I think it would be a very welcome gesture if more manufacturers contributed to charity. So if this is what crownvic wants to achieve...thumbs up.

However, if this is another Gemini Jets publicity stunt pointing fingers at others...it's lame.
No disrespect to anyone, but this entire topic is completely a pointing finger thing. I genuinely never thought about charity proceeds or anything, but I would've rather seen a topic of "GEMINI JETS DONATES PROCEEDS TO BREAST CANCER AWARENESS" rather than NG MODELS DIDN'T DONATE. GeminiJets and Skymarks are companies founded in America. JCWings, NG, etc are founded, produced, and manufactured in China so I guess they wouldn't have many lawsuits chasing them. But this entire topic is lame OP. I only see more and more negativity coming out of this by fans protecting one manufacturer over another.

Besides that point, all Breast Cancer awareness liveries are very unique and pretty, and I'm always happy to see them selling out because people really get more awareness about the disease.
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

Topic is straying. No publicity stunt, and for those that are reading way to far into this, Gemini Jets or Skymarks did not donate any money directly to the charities mentioned. It is added in the royalty checks paid to the airline based on the amount of units produced and invoiced by the factory. Proof of how many models produced is required so that payment made is correct.

I was only trying to prove a point, there is a right way and wrong way...
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Topic is straying. No publicity stunt, and for those that are reading way to far into this, Gemini Jets or Skymarks did not donate any money directly to the charities mentioned. It is added in the royalty checks paid to the airline based on the amount of units produced and invoiced by the factory. Proof of how many models produced is required so that payment made is correct.

I was only trying to prove a point, there is a right way and wrong way...
I absolutely understand what you're trying to say, but honestly a lot of people found this sort of attackful towards one specific manufacturer which from what I've heard only the big GJ has had the hate for. This topic was honestly just going to create a bigger sh*tshow sadly since everyone has their own personal opinions on this topic, but China really doesn't care about royalties or anything and no one is going to go after Chinese model companies to fess out to pay. The best thing is to forget and just compete.
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Old 02-20-2020, 07:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

As often as I disagree with the business practices and ethics of GJ, I agree with the OP on this one.

It’s entirely unethical to profiteer off of the likeness of a charity - and the important work they do - without donating a portion of the profits to said charity.
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Old 02-20-2020, 08:07 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Last October I donated to the Stand Up To Cancer charity, and was very happy to have purchased the AA 757 special colors from NG. I’m glad they made this model, as my Moms name is on the side of that plane. Legal or not, it’s a gem of a model. The pink Delta 757 that is a stunner and am happy to replace the Gemini version.
Yes, US based companies have a much tougher job dealing with legalities and higher expenses, but that’s already a given and should be part of the business model. But to antagonize other companies from foreign countries seems irritating. Lots of pros and cons dealing with China. Ethics aside, I simply vote with my wallet, and purchase the highest quality products. Instead of pointing out who doesn’t pay what, how about Gemini develope the highest quality moulds and the best printing in the industry? Why leave that to the competition.... this thread is a true downer
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Old 02-20-2020, 11:10 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I will answer that...Gemini has no control over what JC produces and JC does not ask their permission...
This has absolutely not been my experience from a first hand perspective.
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Old 02-21-2020, 01:36 AM   #24 (permalink)
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This has absolutely not been my experience from a first hand perspective.
Here's a conspiracy for you: The JC Models which are not allowed to be made (interferes with GJ) are actually GJ models that never got proper licensing imagine if that was true... But I am intrigued to find out why JC has made some models that would look like conflict in competition with GJ
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Old 02-21-2020, 03:12 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Here's a conspiracy for you: The JC Models which are not allowed to be made (interferes with GJ) are actually GJ models that never got proper licensing imagine if that was true... But I am intrigued to find out why JC has made some models that would look like conflict in competition with GJ
That is close to my understanding of the situation as has been corroborated by info from two sources. Now they could be wrong but they are both in positions to know a lot more than I am.

Combine that with the fact that in the past 6 years JC Wings have made less than 30 US models and less than 10 of those have been of US airlines (3 of which have been Breast Cancer awareness models) while 17 have been Boeing house colours (presumably Gemini don't have a license for house colours?) and a picture begins to form. It simply makes no sense unless an agreement is in place.

It is clear as day, to me anyway, that JC Wings avoids stepping on Gemini's toes unless given permission. I can understand that as it makes sense considering JC make Gemini's models for them. I don't mind it except it means unfortunately that the chances of seeing a lot of interesting European and US models using JC Wings huge mould back catalogue is slimmer than it would be because they are unlikely to fit Gemini's necessary release volume criteria.

Perhaps I'm just adding 2 and 2 and making 5. You decide...
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:00 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Conspiracy theories...espionage...permission..publicity stunt...corroboration by 2 inside sources..Lets open up an investigation into all this..Maybe get the media involved..

I asked a simple question..Does NG or anyone else pay royalties to the charities it represents on the models it makes?

If the answer is yes, then I apologize...If the answer is no, then I simply stated I felt it wrong to make them...
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:14 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Conspiracy theories...espionage...permission..publicity stunt...corroboration by 2 inside sources..Lets open up an investigation into all this..Maybe get the media involved..

I asked a simple question..Does NG or anyone else pay royalties to the charities it represents on the models it makes?

If the answer is yes, then I apologize...If the answer is no, then I simply stated I felt it wrong to make them...
NG along several manufacturers are headquartered in China so they probably/Most likely won't pay royalties because they won't have a lawsuit chasing them if they didn't.

Is it unethical? Yes.

Did we need a whole post about it? No we didn't.

A simple message or email to NG could've answered your question considering they are probably open about this and would've answered your question in private and not needing to publicly "ask" / "state" them in a post. Totally not cool dude...
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:44 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Totally not cool dude...
Dude? At my age I"ll take that as a compliment...
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Old 02-21-2020, 05:59 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Dude? At my age I"ll take that as a compliment...
Look... All I'm trying to say is that you guys honestly don't need to keep digging up dirt on each other. Y'all are businesses, not politicians. You don't need to dig up dirt and have the audience favour one over another. Collectors love both and will continue to buy from both companies. Gemini hasn't had competition in a while, but it's healthy for business. Just compete like everyone does
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:40 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

What if we collectors all said, if we bought a model of a livery supporting a cause, we'd donate to that cause?
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:31 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I asked a simple question..Does NG or anyone else pay royalties to the charities it represents on the models it makes?

If the answer is yes, then I apologize...If the answer is no, then I simply stated I felt it wrong to make them...
If it was just a question then why did you give the answer yourself?
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Old 02-21-2020, 09:55 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

The point of the liveries is to increase awareness of breast cancer..AWARENESS ! It even says so in the thread title. If the point was to raise money it would be a breast cancer fundraiser livery but it's not and therefore this thread is just more needless sh*t stirring from a Gemini Jets affiliate.
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:19 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

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The point of the liveries is to increase awareness of breast cancer..AWARENESS ! It even says so in the thread title. If the point was to raise money it would be a breast cancer fundraiser livery but it's not and therefore this thread is just more needless sh*t stirring from a Gemini Jets affiliate.
The model in question is Stand Up To Cancer..

The only ones questioning this topic are the ones that know I am right.

Case closed. I can lock the thread but I wont, I love watching people trash me for a legitimate question...
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Old 02-21-2020, 11:43 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

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The model in question is Stand Up To Cancer..

The only ones questioning this topic are the ones that know I am right.

Case closed. I can lock the thread but I wont, I love watching people trash me for a legitimate question...
What's the title of this thread ?
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Old 02-21-2020, 01:12 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

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The model in question is Stand Up To Cancer..
Which one? The NG one or the AeroClassics one?

Harvey
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Old 02-21-2020, 02:48 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

I have the American A321 (Stand up to CANCER) in 1:150 scale by Daron. I got it six weeks ago. The box has all the American, Airbus, Marvel markings. I don't believe I have seen anyone mention it?
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Old 02-21-2020, 03:45 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

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I have the American A321 (Stand up to CANCER) in 1:150 scale by Daron. I got it six weeks ago. The box has all the American, Airbus, Marvel markings. I don't believe I have seen anyone mention it?
That was a corporate model made for American Airlines with all royalties paid by Daron based on units produced. They were allowed to sell 50 overrun models via their retail outlet. We sold a few at the open house in December.
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Naw, I知 doing just fine Clark.
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Old 02-21-2020, 06:50 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

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That was a corporate model made for American Airlines with all royalties paid by Daron based on units produced. They were allowed to sell 50 overrun models via their retail outlet. We sold a few at the open house in December.
I never doubted the royalties paid on this model. Any idea how many were made, or is that private? Thanks Russ.
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Old 02-21-2020, 08:00 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I never doubted the royalties paid on this model. Any idea how many were made, or is that private? Thanks Russ.
Yes I know, I was just filling everyone in on the details. Not many made for a snap fit model. I believe 250 pieces. They were given away by American Airlines..its a nice model..Congrats!
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Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere, leave you for dead?
Naw, I知 doing just fine Clark.
Real tomato ketchup Eddie?
Nothing but the best! "I don't know why they call this stuff hamburger helper. It does just fine by itself, huh? I like it better than tuna helper myself, don't you, Clark?"
"you're the gourmet around here, Ed!"
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Old 02-22-2020, 05:17 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

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What's the title of this thread ?
Ah I see you snuck in a sneaky edit to the thread title now.
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Old 02-22-2020, 07:23 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cancer Awareness Models....

If Gemini Jets had directly donated to charity this thread would have some merit. But it is once more a discussion about license fees, just from a different angle.

I have nothing against GJ and I buy what I like. Unfortunately they rarely produce something that fits my collection criteria. Win over collectors with great releases and skip this behind the scenes stuff.
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Old 02-22-2020, 08:20 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Cancer Awareness Models....

GJ can reboot the Dreamjets brand and stop producing as GJ. Story ends. Everybody happy.
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Old 02-22-2020, 08:28 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

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Ah I see you snuck in a sneaky edit to the thread title now.
Mel Brooks: "It's great to be the king". Doug

Last edited by doug seeley; 02-22-2020 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Brooks
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Old 02-24-2020, 07:49 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: NG Breast Cancer Awareness

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Originally Posted by RStretton View Post
Question for CrownVic. Did not JC Wings make a breast cancer livery model recently? Oh yes they did - here it is:

https://www.diecastmodelaircraft.com/db/model/77118

Did they pay for the rights for this model? I doubt it and I am pretty certain they wouldn't have made it without Gemini's agreement as they simply don't make US models competing with Gemini.

So in that context have NG done anything that others haven't?
JC has licensing agreement with AA and also paid the royalties on that model..
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Can I refill your eggnog for you? Get you something to eat? Drive you out to the middle of nowhere, leave you for dead?
Naw, I知 doing just fine Clark.
Real tomato ketchup Eddie?
Nothing but the best! "I don't know why they call this stuff hamburger helper. It does just fine by itself, huh? I like it better than tuna helper myself, don't you, Clark?"
"you're the gourmet around here, Ed!"
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