What I am about to say is purely my opinion and is not backed by Gemini Jets, ADI or anyone employed by both....Gemini Jets or ADI does not monitor this forum.
As many of you know I have been around for a while. I left the 400 scene several years ago when my eyesight went south and everything was a blur, therefore gravitated to the larger models.
Lately the 400 scale forum has turned into basically a springboard for a new hero manufacturer. On any given day 70% of the thread titles pertain to them. I applaud this new manufacturer for their efforts and their participation on this site. However, I would like to point out similarities with other manufacturers two of which come to mind. When Velocity models and SMAC came on the scene everyone went ballistic and into I support the new guy mode You are my hero and savior to the industry. They were listening to the collector and giving the collector what they want. Screw the established guys and all they did in the past, they dont listen but the new guys do...Anti comments against the established companies ran rampant. Where are Velocity and SMAC model companies today?? GONE despite the dozens of comments of how they were going to be a force to reckoned with.
What I dont understand is two things about the latest hero on the scene.
1) Yes we will build it....C'mon really, there have been literally hundreds of recommended 757's requested down to the most obscure. EXAMPLE: If someone spotted a 757 back in 1988 at Manchester Airport in a hybrid scheme that lasted a week, its requested and yes the heroes say it will be put on the schedule...The result is they are the greatest.
2) Gemini November Release L-1011-500..... Gemini has come out with an L-1011-500 because our hero company is doing it. How dare Gemini flood the market with this model especially since our hero company has already announced it. What a money grab this is by Gemini.. I will wait for our hero company to make it. Theirs will be much better.
It takes 6 months for a model to make it to the market. I have news for everyone out there with their conspiracy theories. This was not a knee jerk reaction. It was long in the planning stages. It is a known fact that there is a lot of inner communications within dishonest factory workers some closer to the top..Is it not possible that someone leaked this information to the heroes and they knew it was coming so they announce one in the works?? Funny how your heroes come out with a new model announcement long after it went into production by the other established guy.
ADI paid out hundreds of thousands of royalty dollars last year. Yes a few models due come in under the radar without licensing but the collectors sure do snap them up and these are few and far between. Oh and the heroes wont pay a dime of royalties. I guess ADI should get on that program but the minute they join the others and stops paying, the cease and desist letters will come in.
Once again, congratulations to the new guys..nice models nice subjects..Like all new manufacturers who come on the scene, all were very active in the forums..Only time will tell if this is true of the latest. All I ask is think of all the years the other guys were on the scene and brought years of happy collecting to all of you.
Why is there no L-1011 new release for years but now? Everybody would feel it's a knee-jerk reaction because NG is gonna make a new one.
We know you guys pay royalty, but is that only limited to Emirates, Hawaiian, Delta, Fedex? GJ has been releasing things over and over. I for one is uninterested and will not buy any. The United L-1011 grabs my attention. I will see if GJ gets the landing gears right. If it's using those from JC I won't buy that either.
You make some good points, crownvic. Some of the flack Gemini gets is not warranted. But people like to simplify things. People need villains and people need heroes. This happens in every aspect of life: politics, business, school, movies, sports, you name it. Sometimes people can't help themselves but to create false dichotomies, to think of something as black or white, good or bad.
Now, I must say this. The "MESSAGE FROM GEMINIJETS' PRESIDENT to our Collectors, Customers, Retailers and Distributors" which was posted on Gemini's Facebook page a couple months ago (and is still up for all to read)... yikes. That was a nightmare and a huge mistake from a PR perspective. Even though a lot of what was said in that message is fair, and Gemini felt the need to put it out there, it rubbed a lot of collectors the wrong way. Trust me, it won no one over to their cause. Though well-intentioned, the tone of that letter struck the wrong chord entirely. It's no wonder people see Gemini as the bad guy.
So because Gemini has lost some of its goodwill and benefit of the doubt with collectors, this is why you now see people framing things in a certain context. Case in point, the announcement of the United L-1011. It may very well be a pure coincidence that Gemini releases a sought after L-1011 with NG's mould on the horizon, but collectors are quick to jump to the conspiracy theories because of the reputation Gemini has created for itself. Again, EVEN IF everything Gemini said in the Facebook post is well and true and moral and ethical from a purely business standpoint, it was completely tone deaf in terms of how it came across.
Now that that's out of the way, on to the only thing that should even matter: the models themselves! I've been collecting various scales for almost two decades, but was never particularly drawn to 1:400 because up until very recently, 1:400 models lacked the detail, refinement, and accuracy more readily found in a larger scale. Things such as lack of antennas, clunky landing gear, and nose shapes that just weren't right, were a turn off to me for 400 scale. So I essentially quit following the happenings in the world of 1:400, but it was hard to miss all the buzz over the 757 that NG brought to the market. Seeing a bunch of pictures of the various NG 757s releases we've had, I was blown away. This wasn't the 1:400 that I remember from several years ago. This is clearly a superior product in terms of mould, detail, and accuracy compared to any other 1:400 757 on the market. And with the October releases came two of my favorite schemes on the 757, and I just couldn't resist buying my first 1:400 models in over 5 years.
For me, it's always been about the quality of the product, plain and simple. NG has what is without a doubt the best 1:400 757 on the market, and the bottom line is that THAT is why they are winning with customers right now. Sure, politics will always come into the mix, but people wouldn't be buying NG, and Gemini wouldn't have to feel threatened, if NG didn't have a superior product. So Gemini's reaction to this new market entrant should have been to simply--and quietly--rise to the occasion. No need to play the politics game, just simply make the best product and people will buy it.
Very good point about the oddball 757s people are requesting NG to make, and NG seemingly agreeing to make them. I have to chuckle. I applaud NG's desire to meet all collector requests, but certainly they have to know that they can't please everyone. Hopefully they don't get themselves in trouble by trying. Jokingly, a part of me thinks it's someone at Gemini making all the requests for obscure '80s European charter hybrid 757s. Lol! I must admit, that would be clever... knowing NG's desire to please all, and nefariously taking advantage of that by trying to get them to make models which won't sell.
Or then again, maybe NG has actually found a way to make very, very small runs of a model and still turn a profit. Whereas traditionally it's always been a given that x number of models need to be made in order to justify all the artwork and production, maybe, just maybe NG has found a better way. This is all pure speculation on my part, but in theory I believe it's possible given the advances in printing technology, computer generated artwork, etc. With a few talented artists and the right equipment/processes, NG very well could be changing the benchmark for economy of scale. But again, this is purely speculation on my part, and anything of the sort would surely be extremely proprietary. But it would explain some things!
(Sorry for such a long post. Didn't realize I was getting so long-winded. Had to make it two separate posts. The short and sweet conclusion/TL;DR follows.)
Anyway, to wrap this up: props to Gemini for all they've done for this hobby over the years. Even the collectors complaining that Gemini never makes what they want anymore, certainly, given the VAST catalog of Gemini releases over the years, I'm sure they've made PLENTY of models which appeal to all niches. And props to NG for simply making a better model, and seemingly setting a new standard for 1:400. I wish both companies continued success. That's how a healthy market should function... plenty of competition to keep manufacturers at the top of their game, and plenty of options for us, the consumer.
Crownvic,
I read your post and actually agree with you on many points, but I am going to add my two cents.
I started collecting diecast Herpas around 1994, when the quality of 1/400 scale was much better when they came to the market, I switched from the 1/500 Herpa’s. And I bought just about everything that hit the market, but as many planes as I had purchased, I was always disappointed with the moulds , the wierd noses, crooked cockpit windows, poor mould seems, and poor landing gear. Some were better than others, some were great, some moulds were just downright insulting. Then the zinc rot issue reared it’s ugly head, I have around 200 planes suffering from zinc rot, mind you I have well over 3,000 in my collection. And that was the final straw, why buy expensive planes with poor mould details that will turn to dust in a few years time. So I saved my money, that was around 8-9 years ago. I do check the forums 2 or 3 times a year, just to see what’s going on. So around July after a 3-5 month gap in checking the forums, I stumbled across the NG 757...hmmm, I need to investigate this..... it’s a high quality mould, excellent printing, accurate liveries that I can tell of so far. So I bought 6 off of eBay, and wow.... they are amazing, so I am collecting again, kinda, only NG and the AC DC-9 and DC-10 models. So in my opinion, NG brought back a collector after almost a decade absence. They are working with collectors, taking criticism in stride and actually changing their moulds because of it. I honestly think they deserve all the praise they get. Some manufacturers disregard the criticisms, some get offended from it, but these guys (and gals) take the criticism and ask how to make it better , who else does that ? That’s my story and opinion in short, Todd
Last edited by ToddCB; 11-15-2018 at 12:33 AM.
Reason: Grammar
People simply like and get excited about new things. Gemini has been around for forever. Kind of a dinosaur in the industry. I don’t say that in a bad way, it is what it is.
It’s mainly been the same 3-4 manufacturers in 1:400 for years. Imagine you only ate the same 3 or 4 meals for years. And suddenly you have a new food option available to you, and in addition to being novel, it actually happens to be really good. That new food is all you’d want to talk about for a while.
In that context, crownvic, I think it’s easy to understand all the NG hype.
I’ll be amazed if the new entrant is in business two years from now. Not to be mean, but there are market realities and only so many $’s to chase in this hobby.
I’ll be amazed if the new entrant is in business two years from now. Not to be mean, but there are market realities and only so many $’s to chase in this hobby.
Hey now, don't jynx anything.
But in seriousness, that's a real possibility and something which I'm sure is in the back of all our minds. Which is yet another reason for all the hoopla: people like rooting for an underdog.
NG has the right strategy, though. Crank out the releases and new moulds as quickly as possible. Keep up the quality and the hype. Gain enough market share until they reach critical mass, and have a reasonably healthy, stable, and permanent place in this hobby.
I probably shouldn't respond to this but...despite the fact that Gemini recently threatened me with legal action for reporting on their actions with complete accuracy I don't harbor a massive grudge against them and if you read my post about the United Gemini L-1011 you'd have seen it was fairly well balanced.
Regardless of all that the problem with Gemini is they act as though we owe them something when they have since 2008 or so been chasing the $$ completely and ignoring the more engaged collectors. That is 100% up to them but it is a bit rich to then moan that people are complaining.
The licensing argument only holds a small amount of water in my opinion and besides (as with all the Aeroclassics vs Panda nonsense) it is really none of my business or interest as a collector. I care about the models.
At the end of the day NG Models have been behaving and delivering in the way that I wish Gemini did, but Gemini is not that kind of company. Besides that the behavior of ADI has been bullying and a little hypocritical. In fact the behavior of Gemini employees on the forums has been pretty dreadful historically (nowhere near as bad as some I admit)
It may be true that NG won't survive but I am not running their company for them and that is their job anyway not mine. I hope they do and will help them where I can because they have delivered what they have promised and actively listened to us the collectors.
Gemini can continue doing what it wants and I hope it prospers. I will pick up the occasional model of theirs but most of their releases do not interest me. Besides they cannot command respect they do not deserve, or the right to speak for collectors, and should not attempt to close down dissent, opinion or competition.
If Crown Vic you are telling me the remodel of the Gemini/JC 757 wasn't a response to NG I will say you are lying. Then again Gemini has every right to respond and I have no problem with them doing so.
I hope the new GJ L-1011 is good but as I said in my post it doesn't really matter because GJ's business model means it'll barely get used - just like so many other moulds. For that reason alone the NG mould matters more than any move Gemini is making. The benefit to real collectors is much higher from NG Models and Aeroclassics than Phoenix and Gemini in my opinion. JC Wings sit somewhere in between.
By the way didn't Gemini kill Velocity (perhaps with good reason)?
__________________
Richard
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Very good points made here and I agree with them too. The factor that makes the difference for me is,NG get actively involved with the collectors. Even asking our opinions. Their accuracy for a new 'boy on the block' is fantastic. Where does GJ ever do that? I love a lot of what GJ has produced especially the refined models ( MD-11 and classic 747). They could've in my opinion expanded on 'tweaking' their moulds to this standard and produced more requested airlines,but it seems a lifetime before that ever takes place.
When GJ produced their KLM and Martinair MD-11s and their PanAm/ American 747-200,I was the first to go on their feedback section and compliment them. So I stand by GJ as I know they can produce really good models when they want to,but unfortunately amongst the sea of usual production airlines, it's become more of a wait around game for me. So in my opinion,GJ should keep up with the standards of NG and also get involved with the collectors more then you'll see a big shake up of opinions towards GJ.
__________________ NG L1011's: BWIA(Teal/ yellow livery)/
RAF x3/Eastern bare metal/LAM/ Faucett Peru
NG A340: Gulf Air( Gold/Blue))Surinam/Royal Jordanian/Air Namibia (Blue tail) LAN
NG 747 SP/200 Air Namibia( yellow)/Luxair/Air Mauritius/ Saudi Arabian (Green)/Aerolineas Argentinas/ SAA 80’s Orange tail, silver belly 200/ Lufthansa black nose/ Olympic 200
NG 744: United Battleship/ Delta/ Northwest red top/ Qantas 90s livery/ BA
I've been collecting models for a year this December. So far I have 27 models from various manufacturers. Some Gemini and more recently some NG plus other manufacturers.
For us it's about the models. If a manufacturer comes along with superior models for a more reasonable asking price then they are going to get us excited.
The royalities argument doesn't hold up very well as a justification for the often very expensive RRP of Gemini. The royalities are often skirted by releasing in blank boxes or under different brands.
Looking forward to seeing how the L-1011 from both manufacturers turns out but as mentioned by another poster, does the Gemini business plan of large production numbers of popular airlines/types allow for a decent line up of Tristar frames?
NG are also hinting at moving onto types that may never get touched by other manufacturers such as the BelugaXL and producing interesting one-offs like the Honeywell 757 which is very exciting.
I wouldn't say that NG are the "Hero" and the "darling" of the forum and the hobby, it's just the lack of anything else interesting happening that makes it seem so. Look at the forum in the couple of months before NG appeared and it simply wasn't as active because there was less going on.
1) Yes we will build it....C'mon really, there have been literally hundreds of recommended 757's requested down to the most obscure. EXAMPLE: If someone spotted a 757 back in 1988 at Manchester Airport in a hybrid scheme that lasted a week, its requested and yes the heroes say it will be put on the schedule...The result is they are the greatest.
A fair point put like that, I'm not a fan of hybrids as well, but equally they finally delivered the Landor & Negus 757's with the original engine, I'm not in the business, just a collector, so "I just don't get it" that it took a newbie to deliver these....
Everyone here makes such good points and I identify with pretty much all of them...I just see NG as a company that is offering very high quality models to the collector, and is participating with the collectorate in a positive way, responding to what many have been asking for, by putting out carriers on aircraft types that have been wanted for ages, plus offering a new L-1011. They have also consulted with collectors on mould development, ironing out details and corrections - this should be applauded. This is their approach, I get that Gemini, Aeroclassics et al do things differently in that regard, which is fair enough, but this counts for much of the positive reception that NG are getting at the moment.
I didn't like the threats to retailers tactics of Gemini, but I'm not leading a crusade against them either, I too just care about quality models being available to the collector. The more choice - quality choice - the better. Gemini of course has the right to compete. I just wish that they had done it a bit more quietly, and not been so aggressive about it. It definitely wasn't positive PR. The products speak for themselves; if manufacturer's want to add that personal touch as well, it should be positive, otherwise best not to at all. I did also note that it's Gemini's 20th Anniversary - so this may have a lot to do with some of the classic moulds being revived on their part as well I guess.
__________________
"If you're in a hurry, don't worry because I've got a pretty fast act. Before you get a chance to hate me, I'll be gone." - Tommy Cooper
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The "rolling gears" soured it for me and I just quit collecting new models. With that, my hero is whoever gets a good photo of an aircraft that interests me (and preferably not plastered with a big "Airliners.net" watermark).
... I'll leave it to those that still buy to comment otherwise.
Dave (aviation photo collector)
__________________
I didn't get to my age by being impatient... I waited.
I also agree with much that has already been said and will just add my 2 cents worth. I applaud NG’s approach, but trying to please everyone is not going to happen. While all responses to requests are positive ‘we’ll make that’, it’s not going to happen as they are learning from experienced collectors of what will and what won’t sell, so I don’t think they will shoot themselves in the foot by making ‘lemons’. Engaging with collectors is helping them all the time, something others failed to do and end up with models with errors and those collecting dust on dealers’ shelves. Gemini’s slogan ‘made for collectors by collectors’ still grate to that end. It should be changed to ‘made for corporate clients and a few collectors’…..how many more Emirates A380s do ’collectors’ need? Okay, this is business and GJ make more money from corporate models than from collectors, but also don’t engage with collectors. They are also a US company, so the majority of releases are of US airlines that probably have little interest to the rest of the world’s collectors.
Producing a British Airways B757 and United L.1011 in the wake of NG’s announcements, after the moulds have been in storage for ages is a sure sign they need to compete, but is this too late? In fairness I have just purchased the newly-released GJ British Airways World Tails B757 and it stands up well against NG’s products, but they need to listen to collectors and not just stick their head in the sand and make what they think!
As for payment of royalties, how does Crownvic know what NG pay or don’t pay? I always think that airlines and aircraft manufacturers trying to squeeze money out of model companies making a small run of a few hundred of models must be desperate, while they are getting free publicity. The model manufacturers should turn things around and ‘ask’ them if they would a model made in their airline’s colours and charge them for the advertising rights!
Will NG still be around in two years’ time? They will if they receive enough requests for specific models that justify production, something neither Velocity, SMAC, or for that matter other ‘players’ do!!
__________________
Adrian
DC-8s still needed to be done in 1/400: Air Ceylon, Air Spain, Seaboard World (-63CF)
Comets still missing- Dan Air (4 & 4C), United Arab Airlines/Misrair/Egyptair, Kuwait AW, Sudan AW, East African AW, Saudi Royal Flt.
Caravelles still not made: Luxair, Air Algerie,SABENA (final scheme), Libyan Arab Airlines, SAS ( SCANDINAVIAN titles scheme)
Ilyushin IL-18s still not made: Tarom (billboard,) Malev (1st scheme),Cubana, Balkan/ Tabso-Bulgarian Air Transport,
I pretty much echo Skosh's and RStretton's points in response to OP - my .02:
Quote:
Originally Posted by crownvic
It takes 6 months for a model to make it to the market. I have news for everyone out there with their conspiracy theories. [Production of the L-1011] was not a knee jerk reaction. It was long in the planning stages.
I agree that many here are too quick to assume motive where there is none, about all sorts of things. But we've seen requests on the forums go to models in customer's hands in barely 6 months from NG, and nothing of the sort from GJ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crownvic
All I ask is think of all the years the other guys were on the scene and brought years of happy collecting to all of you.
You can think good thoughts of the horse buggy manufacturers too, but it's not our fault they didn't start producing cars.
------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by wainwj
SMAC were just repackaged Gemini Jets, am I wrong?
No, they were mostly Aeroclassics moulds.
__________________
1:200 Wishlist
Sun Country 727-200 late 1990s colors
Yamal & Interjet SSJ
Kenya Airways 737-800 New colors
Alrosa Tu-134 old colors
Who needs General Hospital, As The World Turns, etc., when you have 1:400 scale
I can't see the detail either Russ due to aging and decline in eyesight, but I buy one or two here and there until they come out in 1:200 scale, but even then I keep a few 1:400 around.
Was a nice surprise to see the latest United L-1011, but surprised not much hype about it! Back in the day things were fun in 1:400 when things were just cranking up! Club models, shows, etc. I just can't keep up with what is being released with the market being flooded with releases. I liked the slower pace of the hobby back in the day!
I'll also add this quickly - I'm sorry but I do think it is a 'knee-jerk' reaction, if NG weren't on the scene I really don't think we'd be seeing any TriStars (or 757s) happening at the moment - either new or reworked.. The JC TriStar was held back for a year then put out in September '18, right at the peak of the new L-1011 mould discussions with NG.
I do think NG has stimulated a reaction, which isn't a bad thing.
__________________
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I like any mfg that releases something different...if there was just one mfg on the scene things would be boring! I'll take the good, the bad, and the ugly I had the Bluebox L1011's and enjoyed them for what they were, a close representation of an air frame I like.
I buy hot wheels, are they accurate of the real thing, no, does someone make a more accurate representation, yes, do I buy those, yes. People just love to nitpick and complain! Just be happy you aren't in some third world country and having to play with rocks and sticks
This wasn't directed at the above post or any poster in particular before any keyboard hero has an itchy trigger finger
Hey, I like the NG 757's, but also ordered the Gemini world tail! I will take any tail!
It reminds me of a certain retailer that has a McDonald's approach to the retailer side with a quest to serve "billions"! A few years back this retailer wanted me to "pledge my loyalty" just to them and get on a standing pre-order of over $43k per year for more of a discount than I was receiving. Yeah right! I spread the wealth around to retailers and buy when I want to buy and buy product from mfg. I want to buy from, variety is the key to a happy life! This "defend a specific retailer or mfg. attitude" is purely drama inducing!
I like good and detailed models, as NG's 757.
I collected herpas 1:500 for years, and since 2012 I've been starting to collect 1:400, I bought some Gemini models, when it released which I found to be interesting.
I occasionaly read forum for two years, and when I had checked NG released models, which the hobbyists wanted, I became active in the forum.
NG is getting to involve the collectors, so I finally got a Icelandair B757-200 in current livery, for which I waited for years. Gemini didn't simply release it, so I bought its NG reproduction.
I bought Gemini's Hekla and lately NG's Hekla too, because I found simply this last better. I'm European, and I'm collecting basically small Scandinavian Airlines, but Gemini is negleting and isn't reproduce them. I don't think Gemini would release a Braathens B734, or a Stirling B752, so I'm not interesting in your latest releases.
Maybe I'm part of a niche group of collectros, and maybe collectors as me don't make sense economically, but the market isn't only the world of American or Arabian major airlines.
Is it bad that collectors get excited for new manufacturers? I don't care if they last 6 months or 6 decades, if they release a model I want I'll buy it. Velocity Models are somewhat rare now so it's just cool to have a piece. Not everybody wants the same AeroClassics, Gemini Jets, and Phoenix Models. It's capitalism for a reason, get over it.
Simple fact here is we have a new entrant who is actively engaging with the community. Moreover they are backing up their words with action.
When could the same ever be said about Gemini?
Ten years ago Gemini was an excellent manufacturer who lived up to their motto with a wide range of leading edge moulds and an adventurous spirit when it came to releases. Since then? Things have steadily declined to the current corporate status quo of the last few years. Emirates, Hawaiian, Delta, Emirates, Hawaiian, Delta, Emirates, Hawaiian, Delta, Emirates, Hawaiian, Delta... Rinse. Repeat.
When did Gemini release a Landor 757 just for example? They've had means and opportunity for 18 years... But that'd be a poor seller, right?
Gemini has exhibited not only an utter disregard for the online communities, culminating in open contempt with their recent vile threats against retailers and private individuals.
So if you seriously can't see why all this has resulted in the current community attitude then, I'm sorry, there is no helping you.
Since Gemini's point man at our forum "they don't monitor" asked, I'll throw my .02 in. I suspect he "gets it" better than he lets on, since has all the same information the rest of us have. But, I'm happy to lay out facts when asked.
And though I could just copy and paste what Rich Stretton wrote, it's fun to write in my own words.
Gemini clearly decided some years ago that they were going to be a volume and corporate manufacturer. So they largely stopped making classic models, put their classic moulds largely on the shelf, and make endless Emirates, BA, Delta, American, United, etc. Sure, they throw in a few classics now and then. But Gemini is clearly after the volume market and not collectors. That's apparent to anyone who pays attention.
I am in the hobby to buy the models I want. Which are primarily 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's classics. I am not here to be 'loyal' to a manufacturer who does not make what I want. End of discussion on that point.
Gemini's moulds have been notoriously uneven; they only seem to update moulds under competitive pressure, and insult collectors by making models on unimproved old moulds, i.e. the Eastern DC-8-61. I bought that DC-8 because I thought, "Gemini should be encouraged to make classics." They insulted my intelligence in response. Gemini only seems to improve moulds under competitive pressure, which is sloppy. We KNOW what Gemini does when they don't have competition. So I'm going to support that competition.
NG Models is making extremely high quality models, and not only asks collectors what we want, they consult us to help minimize mistakes (though they have made a few). And they release lots of classics. NG Models has raised the bar in 1:400, and the mediocrity-mongers at Gemini know it. So I'm happy to wait for an NG mould that I know is on the way. NG isn't a "hero company." They are a company that makes good products I want. You bet I'm excited about them.
And, of course, Aeroclassics is still putting out 10-15 classics a month. AC still needs to work on improving quality-consistency, and increase the detail of their printing, but they still produce many fantastic models.
As for licensing, we know how much Gemini cares about that (cough Patriots 767 cough). So, crocodile tears about licensing don't merit response.
Gemini is free, as Rich notes, to make what they want. If they want some good will from collectors, and some sales, try getting out the moulds NG isn't likely to get to anytime soon-- terrific regional-aircraft moulds like the CV-580, The Dash 8, Shorts 360.
If Russell is actually reading this thread, he has his answers. And Gemini can dry their crocodile tears.
Jim
__________________ The greatest need in 1:400:Reissues of Major Passenger-Carrier 747 Classics: -100/200, -300, and SP, of NG / Aeroclassics / Big Bird Mk. 1 quality. Examples: American; United Blue-Star, Bass; TWA double globe, double stripe; Pan Am delivery; British Airways Negus, Landor; KLM 70's-80's blue top; Air France 70's-80's; Lufthansa 70's-80's; Aer Lingus delivery; Sabena 80's circle-s; Japan Air Lines 70's-80s; All Nippon 70's; and Qantas 70's-80's.
Last edited by BWI-ROCman; 11-15-2018 at 09:56 PM.
Gemini's moulds have been notoriously uneven; they only seem to update moulds under competitive pressure, and insult collectors by making models on unimproved old moulds,
I'll add on to this.
My very first model ever was an America West 757 "Cardinals" in 2009. I was happy with it. Finally got into the hobby. I collected on and off for years since then before taking a 2 year break. Got back into collecting and purchased the newly released UPS 757, thinking the mould had been improved. Paid $35 plus shipping and the mould was exactly the same as it was in 2009. I'm tired of Gemini and their elves bit ching about competition, freaking dictators.
Gemini is free, as Rich notes, to make what they want. If they want some good will from collectors, and some sales, try getting out the moulds NG isn't likely to get to anytime soon-- terrific regional-aircraft moulds like the CV-580, The Dash 8, Shorts 360.
Jim
... and the BAC One-Eleven 500 for British Airways(Negus), Trans Brasil, British Midland, Monarch, Ryanair, Cyprus Airways, Arkia, JAT, Air Malta, Philippine Airlines etc...lots of interesting and colourful airlines!
Your 1/400 Convair 580 mould has only been used for two releases, one of which (FAA) was a 'lemon'! If you listened to us collectors, there are many requests for this - North Central, Republic, Northwest, Aspen, DHL,American Eagle - yes Gemini, US airlines that you're supposed to specialize in?
__________________
Adrian
DC-8s still needed to be done in 1/400: Air Ceylon, Air Spain, Seaboard World (-63CF)
Comets still missing- Dan Air (4 & 4C), United Arab Airlines/Misrair/Egyptair, Kuwait AW, Sudan AW, East African AW, Saudi Royal Flt.
Caravelles still not made: Luxair, Air Algerie,SABENA (final scheme), Libyan Arab Airlines, SAS ( SCANDINAVIAN titles scheme)
Ilyushin IL-18s still not made: Tarom (billboard,) Malev (1st scheme),Cubana, Balkan/ Tabso-Bulgarian Air Transport,
I'm not entirely sure what there is to not get. If Gemini listened to collectors and were constantly engaged with the community in order to improve their offering then everyone would be raving about GJ and not any other company.
Gemini, like all manufacturers, are free to produce what they want to produce. But don't cry and moan if people are getting behind a new company. People want quality, so producing the best quality, most accurate, value for money models is what we all want. Provide this and people will vote with their wallets.
I have nothing against Gemini as a business and what they offer. But what 'I just don't get' is why this saga of GJ trying to get people to feel sorry for them seems to continue. I for one would love to see GJ pull themselves together and start being the company they have the potential to be, getting collectors excited about their products again !
I have a small collection of 102 models in 1/400. 19 are Gemini, 16 Phoenix, 16 Dragon, 14 JCW, 11 AeroClassics, and then randoms. So I will continue to buy Gemini as long as they develop new and worthwhile products. I only have 1 NG, but am sure will have more as they release interesting subjects. Even though their landing gear were comical fails; I wish Dragon came back because they were the kings of making variants of their molds.
Basic business really; make things people want and sell them. Even if NG doesn't make most of what they say; they are still trying to please enthusiasts which is key to any company's success.
I went on here complimenting the other guys and not to bash..All I wanted to do was set the record straight on 2 things...The sudden Gemini L-1011 release CONSPIRICY theory and bring to light the "we will do every model requested" responses and how that is a bad business plan..that's all...I knew I would get bashed, criticized and steam rolled over especially by the major fan club players of the other manufacturer..Its all good and I appreciate their comments, some quite good ....
On a side note, I spoke to another well known 400 scale manufacturer last night on the phone and HE brought up an interesting point....Why are they constantly asking for help, asking for documents, asking for blueprints and asking for assistance in research, especially from collectors as it seems a little strange. Sure there are those that say this a good thing, but we both had never heard of this before.
As for the Avenatti comment, I wish I was half as good looking as him so I can attract the babes despite him being a complete jack*ss...
No further comments...Thats all folks! I''m going back to 200
What I am about to say is purely my opinion and is not backed by Gemini Jets, ADI or anyone employed by both...
You know it’s gonna be entertaining, when someone has to appeal the legitimacy of their own opinion with “I swear I’m not a shill...”
Quote:
Originally Posted by crownvic
All I ask is think of all the years the other guys were on the scene and brought years of happy collecting to all of you.
Translation: “Please re-evaluate your newfound brand affinities, and instead support those who rest on their laurels”
Additionally, to use your words, I’d suggest that GJ brought “years of happy collecting to all of you” because 10 years ago, they actually made DC9’s, DC10’s, 747-100’s, Dash-8’s, CV580’s, etc, alongside the contemporary types. Now it’s Emirates A380 number 33.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crownvic
On a side note, I spoke to another well known 400 scale manufacturer last night on the phone and HE brought up an interesting point....Why are they constantly asking for help, asking for documents, asking for blueprints and asking for assistance in research, especially from collectors as it seems a little strange. Sure there are those that say this a good thing, but we both had never heard of this before.
Curious assessment of “constantly asking for help”. NG did not ask for help or documents with the C919, 757, 787, or 737-800. Which are the only moulds they’ve actually released!
As for the ‘why’.... isn’t it obvious?? They want excellent accuracy and QC. A novel concept, one that’d serve those “other well-known 400 scale manufacturers” well.
At least NG are asking collectors what they want instead of selling themselves out to corporate contracts... Was that well known 400 scale manufacturer your brother? Thread would have more legitimacy coming from anybody else but you...
On a side note, I spoke to another well known 400 scale manufacturer last night on the phone and HE brought up an interesting point....Why are they constantly asking for help, asking for documents, asking for blueprints and asking for assistance in research, especially from collectors as it seems a little strange. Sure there are those that say this a good thing, but we both had never heard of this before.
Just because one hasn't heard of something doesn't mean it's not a good thing. NG recognizes that there's a lot of knowledge and expertise in our forum, and they take advantage of it, to help them strengthen their quality control. Folks seem happy to help. How a maker gets to good quality control--on their own, or with help from the forum--is less important than the goal, which is high-quality models. Sounds like a win-win to me.
Have fun at 200.
Jim
__________________ The greatest need in 1:400:Reissues of Major Passenger-Carrier 747 Classics: -100/200, -300, and SP, of NG / Aeroclassics / Big Bird Mk. 1 quality. Examples: American; United Blue-Star, Bass; TWA double globe, double stripe; Pan Am delivery; British Airways Negus, Landor; KLM 70's-80's blue top; Air France 70's-80's; Lufthansa 70's-80's; Aer Lingus delivery; Sabena 80's circle-s; Japan Air Lines 70's-80s; All Nippon 70's; and Qantas 70's-80's.
Crownvic,
I just posted 2 pictures on the Aeroclassics November releases thread of the AeroPeru 757 I just received in yesterday’s mail. Now judging from what you see in those two pictures, how can one not be excited to have another company enter the market with superior craftsmanship ? That plane I received in yesterday’s mail is one of the reasons why I had’nt purchased a 1/400 in almost a decade !! I’m grateful for NG entering the business. Todd
On a side note, I spoke to another well known 400 scale manufacturer last night on the phone and HE brought up an interesting point....Why are they constantly asking for help, asking for documents, asking for blueprints and asking for assistance in research, especially from collectors as it seems a little strange. Sure there are those that say this a good thing, but we both had never heard of this before.
Maybe not in the diecast aircraft world, but it has definitely happened in the '00/H0' Gauge/1:76 model railway world; a few years back enthusiasts were campaigning on an associated hobby forum (RMWeb) for an accurate locomotive type to be made, one that had been made many times before by a variety of manufacturers (Hornby, Lima and later Heljan) but none had ever got it completely right (bit like the TriStar here)...
Then a representative from a company called Dapol responds on that forum, stating that they will finally produce a truly accurate model of this locomotive, and a lengthy thread began which involved direct consultation between enthusiasts, knowledgeable experts and the manufacturer ('Dapol Dave'), where actual early-stage CAD drawings were shown and discussed, with mock-ups, the lot. This of course involved original blueprints being referenced and discussed. After much detail correction, back-and-forth consultation with the forum members, the finest and most accurate model of this locomotive in '00' scale was subsequently made by Dapol in China (a Class 52 'Western' Diesel-Hydraulic locomotive, a stalwart on British Rail's Western Region out of Paddington between 1961-1977; they replaced steam traction). I own 3 of these fine models. It was finally 'nailed'.
So, I for one am definitely familiar with this kind of consultation, NG is adopting a very similar approach that Dapol had with collectors, and the result - an extremely accurate, quality product.
__________________
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Interesting thread. I am a bit curious being a 1/200 collector, if NG will expand their 1/200 products in the near future? I like my 1/200 Air Canada NG models. Cheers! T7
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I went on here complimenting the other guys and not to bash..All I wanted to do was set the record straight on 2 things...The sudden Gemini L-1011 release CONSPIRICY theory and bring to light the "we will do every model requested" responses and how that is a bad business plan..that's all...I knew I would get bashed, criticized and steam rolled over especially by the major fan club players of the other manufacturer..Its all good and I appreciate their comments, some quite good ....
On a side note, I spoke to another well known 400 scale manufacturer last night on the phone and HE brought up an interesting point....Why are they constantly asking for help, asking for documents, asking for blueprints and asking for assistance in research, especially from collectors as it seems a little strange. Sure there are those that say this a good thing, but we both had never heard of this before.
As for the Avenatti comment, I wish I was half as good looking as him so I can attract the babes despite him being a complete jack*ss...
No further comments...Thats all folks! I''m going back to 200
There is no way one person can hate a good thing so much and not be a shill. How much are they paying you?
Just opened my Gemini Jets "Botswana" 752 and love it! Antenna, looks like new nose gear, and love the "20 Year" logo on the box! I just love them all, GJ, AC, PHX, NG, etc. etc., but unfortunately for me I need 200 scale to really enjoy all the detail! Nice addition to all my BA World Tails!
Crownvic, I just posted 2 pictures on the Aeroclassics November releases thread of the AeroPeru 757 I just received in yesterday’s mail. Now judging from what you see in those two pictures, how can one not be excited to have another company enter the market with superior craftsmanship ? That plane I received in yesterday’s mail is one of the reasons why I had’nt purchased a 1/400 in almost a decade !! I’m grateful for NG entering the business. Todd
Don't feed the troll. That's what crownvic's postings on this topic more or less are these days, whatever motivates his postings. I respond to his postings with information on the topic, for the benefit of other readers. Nothing else is merited.
Jim
__________________ The greatest need in 1:400:Reissues of Major Passenger-Carrier 747 Classics: -100/200, -300, and SP, of NG / Aeroclassics / Big Bird Mk. 1 quality. Examples: American; United Blue-Star, Bass; TWA double globe, double stripe; Pan Am delivery; British Airways Negus, Landor; KLM 70's-80's blue top; Air France 70's-80's; Lufthansa 70's-80's; Aer Lingus delivery; Sabena 80's circle-s; Japan Air Lines 70's-80s; All Nippon 70's; and Qantas 70's-80's.
Last edited by BWI-ROCman; 11-18-2018 at 03:50 PM.
What I don't understand is how Gemini, with their market experience, could "re-release" a -500 mould that, while it appears it's an improvement on their old mould, it also appears to be less accurate than an almost 20 year old Dragon mould! I only hope the mould NG has in the works has the right wings on it. I hold nothing against GJ/ADI. They have released some brilliant models in the past, but the standard TriStar wings on this UAL -500 are a real disappointment.