In the past week, two new players have joined the 1:400 market. First Is 'Apollo' so far releasing 8 new models, based on the old Big Bird / Your Craftsman 400 moulds. Check out the link below:
Second, just announced late Friday evening is 'Albatros MDV' who in their first four new releases have concentrated on China Airlines. Check out the link below for more info:
Second, just announced late Friday evening is 'Albatros MDV' who in their first four new releases have concentrated on China Airlines. Check out the link below for more info:
I was just thinking, I wonder if this is just a quick "Fly by night" name JC came up with to quickly release these China Airlines models without getting into any licensing issues with the airline and move on? Any thoughts?
Second, just announced late Friday evening is 'Albatros MDV' who in their first four new releases have concentrated on China Airlines. Check out the link below for more info:
I was just thinking, I wonder if this is just a quick "Fly by night" name JC came up with to quickly release these China Airlines models without getting into any licensing issues with the airline and move on? Any thoughts?
Hi - I don't see the link please can you repost?
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Second, just announced late Friday evening is 'Albatros MDV' who in their first four new releases have concentrated on China Airlines. Check out the link below for more info:
I was just thinking, I wonder if this is just a quick "Fly by night" name JC came up with to quickly release these China Airlines models without getting into any licensing issues with the airline and move on? Any thoughts?
My thought is.....yes.
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I have seen them already on some chinese websites with some more close up pics.......
.....well there is nothing to be excited about, just an other big pass for me!
Prices on there were 139,- RMB / 22,50 USD
I was interrested in the JAL 747 OC, but I would rather prefer to pay the premium price which is currently asked for the original BigBird / Aeroclassics than to go for this cheaper option.
It is just not good enough to fit my collection.
CO Rudy
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These are not 'new' manufacturers. Both 'Apollo' and 'Pegasus' are marketing names used by Av400 using the old BigBird400 747 mould made in the Witty factory.
As ModelmanGB says, some of them 'do not look quite right' and I think it is the accuracy of the airline font on some of them, but may also be the cockpit printing. For example the 'loop' of the 'P' in the 'PAN AM' cheatline scheme looks too thin. Will wait to see one 'in the flesh' to judge further.
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Adrian
DC-8s still needed to be done in 1/400: Air Ceylon, Air Spain, Seaboard World (-63CF)
Comets still missing- Dan Air (4 & 4C), United Arab Airlines/Misrair/Egyptair, Kuwait AW, Sudan AW, East African AW, Saudi Royal Flt.
Caravelles still not made: Luxair, Air Algerie,SABENA (final scheme), Libyan Arab Airlines, SAS ( SCANDINAVIAN titles scheme)
Ilyushin IL-18s still not made: Tarom (billboard,) Malev (1st scheme),Cubana, Balkan/ Tabso-Bulgarian Air Transport,
What Adrian said... on top of that it's only more confusing listing them all by these so called "brands" which are nothing more than Bob Cass trying to confuse people and make life more difficult, followed by the people who cause further confusion...
These are not 'new' manufacturers. Both 'Apollo' and 'Pegasus' are marketing names used by Av400 using the old BigBird400 747 mould made in the Witty factory.
Pegasus is NOT a marketing name, they commissioned witty to produce the bouraqs.
"Albatros" is a famous Taiwan web seller who released orders to a China factory (JC? AV?) to manufacture for him.
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These are not 'new' manufacturers. Both 'Apollo' and 'Pegasus' are marketing names used by Av400 using the old BigBird400 747 mould made in the Witty factory.
As ModelmanGB says, some of them 'do not look quite right' and I think it is the accuracy of the airline font on some of them, but may also be the cockpit printing. For example the 'loop' of the 'P' in the 'PAN AM' cheatline scheme looks too thin. Will wait to see one 'in the flesh' to judge further.
I have to say that they look pretty good to me and I am glad they have been produced as I'm sick of chasing after very hard to find AC/BigBird versions. I certainly don't think of them as being junk and prefer to stay out of the personal catfight between Andrew and Chan.
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Richard
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I was interrested in the JAL 747 OC, but I would rather prefer to pay the premium price which is currently asked for the original BigBird / Aeroclassics than to go for this cheaper option.
I wanted the original BigBird version too but after realizing that it comes with lots of errors such as completely chromed lower fuselage including wings junction, no painted grey panels on back lower fuselage, with incorrect font of registration numbers and with tarnined spots on chrome finish I have to say it looks so crappy like this, I am so glad now I didn't spend my cash for that model, now I actually don't need it even for free. Luckily the new model released by Apollo is now free of those awful errors, it comes with correct lower fuselage which is safe metallic, with correct fonts, with correct cockpit. Very glad with the new excellent release! Finally there is the first normal JAL 747-100!
So "Albatros" is a famous Taiwan web seller who released orders to a China factory to manufacture for him.
Plus Pegasus is NOT a marketing name, they commissioned witty to produce the Bouraqs.
So 2 for 2 you're wrong now Air Paradigm, gosh after just this morning you quoted:
"I don't know why I bother, but Lou has 0 clue to what he's talking about... instead... coming up with absolute BS... once again proving that the crap database here is wrong".
Actually it seem now you've got it wrong, will be interesting how these new producers/names appear on your site, huh?
For collectors who want the Name that appears on the box, to be found simply in the database, you can't do better then DA.C and Wings900. Yes... it's a blatant plug!
Cheers Lou
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I have to say that they look pretty good to me and I am glad they have been produced as I'm sick of chasing after very hard to find AC/BigBird versions. I certainly don't think of them as being junk...
Hear, hear, wise words indeed Richard, agree 100%
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So "Albatros" is a famous Taiwan web seller who released orders to a China factory to manufacture for him.
Plus Pegasus is NOT a marketing name, they commissioned witty to produce the Bouraqs.
So 2 for 2 you're wrong now Air Paradigm, gosh after just this morning you quoted:
"I don't know why I bother, but Lou has 0 clue to what he's talking about... instead... coming up with absolute BS... once again proving that the crap database here is wrong".
Actually it seem now you've got it wrong, will be interesting how these new producers/names appear on your site, huh?
For collectors who want the Name that appears on the box, to be found simply in the database, you can't do better then DA.C and Wings900. Yes... it's a blatant plug!
Cheers Lou
So let's see here...SkyJets400 calls Gemini Jets...they want to make models...Models are marketed as Dream Jets to avoid the licensing issues etc... Therefore because SkyJets400 commissioned the model it's not a Gemini Jets model... That makes perfect sense... Indonesian Collector club calls Dai Kong... Dai Kong calls Bob Cass... model gets produced using Witty tooling, marketed as Pegasus per request...Same thing... It's stupid, and ridiculous. And you only contribute further by supporting such stupidity.
They aren't a new producer...it's a name, with the same person behind the model, Bob Cass. Get it right.
There's lots of Gemini Jets releases with box typos that you haven't changed, you better make sure all those match the boxes because that's what collectors want under your theory.
Yes, the great Wings900 & DAC database that has no logos, goes weeks on end without updates, is missing dozens if not hundreds of standard releases, has weekly new errors and guess what has already been told that it won't be here by the previous owner once his HobbyDB project is completed (yes...the one that was promised on June 10th..that is like 3 years late and is the laughing stock of anyone who has viewed the beta site including the own moderator of Wings900 mmu69...) and poof goes the DAC/Wings900 database... Now what smart arse? Where's that great database that is suppose to be on Wings900 and DAC?
I'll put them up as Witty, because that's what they are.... Oh and if you're going to point me out by name it's not Andrew Waffel... Lou, the idiot.
Last edited by make.me.laugh; 08-04-2013 at 09:42 PM.
Reason: personal reference
someone here is butt hurt, i wouldnt consider dreamjets as a geminijets release, thats like saying all JC200 releases which share moulds with GJ should be classified under GJ200
If the manufacturer decides to call it the way it wants to, no matter Apollo, Albatros or Pegasus or no matter how else I accept it as it comes, it's their product, it's their markeing strategy, they do it for a certain reason. As a customer I am only interested in the final product - in the model. Moreover, the models got markings of the new brand printed on the models and on the boxes supplied, so what's the use and reason for calling them somehow else if they already got their own brand, like we it or not. Perhaps various database keepers want to reduce manufacturers entries in thier services but it's their right. Just like I never bother myself when it comes to brands like Pan Am Models PAMC, Green Box, Blue Box, Aurora, Sovereign, SMA, often unbranded and pletora of other names of one brand, I neither do it in this case too.
If the manufacturer decides to call it the way it wants to, no matter Apollo, Albatros or Pegasus or no matter how else I accept it as it comes, it's their product, it's their markeing strategy, they do it for a certain reasos. As a customer I am only interested in the final product - in the model. Moreover, the models got markings of the new brand printed on the models and on the boxes supplied, so what's the use and reason for calling them somehow else if they already got their own brand, like we it or not. Perhaps various database keepers want to reduce manufacturers entries in thier services but it's their right. Just like I never bother myself when it comes to brands like Pan Am Models PAMC, Green Box, Blue Box, Aurora, Sovereign, SMA or simply often unbranded and pletora of other names of one brand, I neither do it in this case too.
Sorry I took it off-topic, however I feel I can't just allow others who run sites similar to ours try and railroad the discussions on here onto their own sidings (Railway reference!) If Air Paradigm wants his site to be bereft of different manufactures that's his right.
If on the other hand, DA.C and Wings lists them, that's our right too. Using Air Paradigm own argument, all Aeroclassics made before 2003 should be listed as Witty!
I and Air Paradigm have been messaging each other off-line as we quite clearly have disagreements over what is happening on this site. However he has taken it one step too far...
Quote: You can justify them all you want, Hitler would be proud of you...
Now I'm a proud member of the Jewish community and find this statement deplorable. Tempted to take legal action to be honest. So those of you who would like to believe what Air Paradigm is saying, so be it, however those who believe you never vilify anyone by race, colour or creed, especially quoting Hilter...
I am totally disgusted in his behaviour and so all of us should be...
Not quite so giggly - Lou
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If the manufacturer decides to call it the way it wants to, no matter Apollo, Albatros or Pegasus or no matter how else I accept it as it comes, it's their product, it's their markeing strategy, they do it for a certain reason. As a customer I am only interested in the final product - in the model. Moreover, the models got markings of the new brand printed on the models and on the boxes supplied, so what's the use and reason for calling them somehow else if they already got their own brand, like we it or not. Perhaps various database keepers want to reduce manufacturers entries in thier services but it's their right. Just like I never bother myself when it comes to brands like Pan Am Models PAMC, Green Box, Blue Box, Aurora, Sovereign, SMA, often unbranded and pletora of other names of one brand, I neither do it in this case too.
I quite agree. However, I think the discussion surrounds the reason they do this, whose moulds they are and the confusion it causes. Okay, 'Pegasus' commissioned Witty to make the Bouraq 737s, but who is 'Apollo'? My guess is that the 747s are unlicensed and this is a way to avoid Boeing coming after the name Av400 if they used it. However, this is not our problem and I think we have now established where we are with these. Proof of quality will be when I can hold these in my hand, so not worth speculating further.
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Adrian
DC-8s still needed to be done in 1/400: Air Ceylon, Air Spain, Seaboard World (-63CF)
Comets still missing- Dan Air (4 & 4C), United Arab Airlines/Misrair/Egyptair, Kuwait AW, Sudan AW, East African AW, Saudi Royal Flt.
Caravelles still not made: Luxair, Air Algerie,SABENA (final scheme), Libyan Arab Airlines, SAS ( SCANDINAVIAN titles scheme)
Ilyushin IL-18s still not made: Tarom (billboard,) Malev (1st scheme),Cubana, Balkan/ Tabso-Bulgarian Air Transport,
Apollo is a brand name Bob Cass...manager at Witty Industrial Factory...coharts of Inflight200/Inflight500/Aviation200/400/Witty400....etc to just randomly make some 747 models that he didn't want to market as Witty400 and couldn't distribute through the normal channels....
Apollo is a brand name Bob Cass...manager at Witty Industrial Factory...coharts of Inflight200/Inflight500/Aviation200/400/Witty400....etc to just randomly make some 747 models that he didn't want to market as Witty400 and couldn't distribute through the normal channels....
And why are you so butt hurt over this? I'm confused
And why are you so butt hurt over this? I'm confused
Adrian asked a question, I answered it. How is that butt hurt? You have your opinion on how manufacturers should be, I have mine. I didn't loose any sleep over it and neither should you... life just moved on.
As ModelmanGB says, some of them 'do not look quite right' and I think it is the accuracy of the airline font on some of them, but may also be the cockpit printing. For example the 'loop' of the 'P' in the 'PAN AM' cheatline scheme looks too thin. Will wait to see one 'in the flesh' to judge further.
And here again, they do look exactly like the old BigBird400/Pan Am Models PAMC (AeroClassics), they're so identical that they even inherited all the same old fonts, etc. For example, the same thin "P" featured in all the old releases of PAMC(Aeroclassics) in the cheatline and expirimental paint schemes, so it's standard:
So who cares who made them...
This whole 1:400 scene is made up of pirates - one calls the other a pirate and here we go around the merry-go-round again!!!
I'm already panicking that I am going to miss out....but I dont want these models!!!
And here again, they do look exactly like the old BigBird400/Pan Am Models PAMC (AeroClassics), they're so identical that they even inherited all the same old fonts, etc. For example, the same thin "P" featured in all the old releases of PAMC(Aeroclassics) in the cheatline and expirimental paint schemes, so it's standard:
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Thanks very much for these comparison shots. However, to me the 'PAN AM' font on the BigBird400 "Clipper Ocean Spray" looks correct, yet the Apollo PAN AM font on "Clipper Gem of the Ocean"doesn't look quite right and not the same with the 'loop' in the 'P' much thinner. Will wait til I see one.
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Adrian
DC-8s still needed to be done in 1/400: Air Ceylon, Air Spain, Seaboard World (-63CF)
Comets still missing- Dan Air (4 & 4C), United Arab Airlines/Misrair/Egyptair, Kuwait AW, Sudan AW, East African AW, Saudi Royal Flt.
Caravelles still not made: Luxair, Air Algerie,SABENA (final scheme), Libyan Arab Airlines, SAS ( SCANDINAVIAN titles scheme)
Ilyushin IL-18s still not made: Tarom (billboard,) Malev (1st scheme),Cubana, Balkan/ Tabso-Bulgarian Air Transport,
Thanks very much for these comparison shots. However, to me the 'PAN AM' font on the BigBird400 "Clipper Ocean Spray" looks correct, yet the Apollo PAN AM font on "Clipper Gem of the Ocean"doesn't look quite right and not the same with the 'loop' in the 'P' much thinner. Will wait til I see one.
Adrian, to me the fonts look absolutely the same. Comparing these two models in real you'll make sure yourself.
The Pan Am models version look terrible with their main deck windows nearly joining the upper deck.
I'll get the Apollo verison thanks and not have to spend way over the top prices on the PAMC's.
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On the bench....or in the queue:
I'll wager that these are knockoffs of the Big Bird version. Same mould and same tampo and art.
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I think this is the second time that I have had to go to a dictionary for you.
"Informal To copy or imitate, especially without permission: knocking off someone else's ideas."
In this instance Apollo "imitated" PAMC, with or without permission makes no difference here, but the "knocking off someone else's ideas" does apply here.
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I think this is the second time that I have had to go to a dictionary for you.
"Informal To copy or imitate, especially without permission: knocking off someone else's ideas."
In this instance Apollo "imitated" PAMC, with or without permission makes no difference here, but the "knocking off someone else's ideas" does apply here.
Therefore i can also conclude that model manufacturers are knocking of the 1:1? Apollo imitated PAMC, and PAMC imitated Boeing and PanAm?
I think this is the second time that I have had to go to a dictionary for you.
"Informal To copy or imitate, especially without permission: knocking off someone else's ideas."
In this instance Apollo "imitated" PAMC, with or without permission makes no difference here, but the "knocking off someone else's ideas" does apply here.
There's are few words that come to mind that you could go to the dictionary for.
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On the bench....or in the queue:
Therefore i can also conclude that model manufacturers are knocking of the 1:1? Apollo imitated PAMC, and PAMC imitated Boeing and PanAm?
A definition is what it is. Apply as you see fit. By the way...how can you argue against a definition? Are you in some way opposed to all that is included in Webster's?
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I think you both just obstinate by nature. Obstinate? Look it up.
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A definition is what it is. Apply as you see fit. By the way...how can you argue against a definition? Are you in some way opposed to all that is included in Webster's?
Am i arguing over a definition? Nope, I just think that if you want to call Apollo/BB/Whatevernamewittycomesupwith knockoffs by definition, then you should also call aeroclassics as being Boeing/Airbus knockoffs.
Location: Hangzhou, Zhejiang; Peoples Republic of China
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Re: New Makers of 1:400 Announced
Knockoffs would be 1:1 copies. Most of what exits the Witty factory are knockoffs or counterfeits, but nothing original!!
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Take the money-grab & deceit out of our hobby, and bring back ethics and quality!!
Just say NO to Apollo400/Black Box/NG(No Good)/Panda Models/Junk-X/First Choice/C&C/IF400/Witty400/Magic/AV200/AK200/Flightline/Flightline200/Flightline400/Pegasus/Blue Angle/5stars & any BigBirds (real or fake)
Am i arguing over a definition? Nope, I just think that if you want to call Apollo/BB/Whatevernamewittycomesupwith knockoffs by definition, then you should also call aeroclassics as being Boeing/Airbus knockoffs.
Us being obstinate? Oh the irony!
It's because you do not understand the term "knock off". The center of your confusion. You are defining a "replica". That is different than a "knock off".
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New Makers of 1:400 Announced
Re: New Makers of 1:400 Announced
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