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Old 06-12-2011, 11:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

I have seen 3 so far with some bad flaws. One had part of the exit door outline missing. The second one I looked at had white paint on the blue and gray parts of the plane like a bracket had paint on it or someone in the factory had white paint on their fingers. The third one had a glob of glue on the side along the window line above the wing. What is going on? Have you guys noticed similar QC issues on this release? I hope I can grab a good one as I really like this release!
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

Some of them apparently have the nose gear installed backwards with the torque knee pointing forward instead of aft. I'm not sure how easy of a fix that is since I have yet to purchase a GJ 1:200 727-200, but I'm kind of glad I passed on this one.
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

well made in china is the reason...........
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

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Originally Posted by asj410 View Post
Some of them apparently have the nose gear installed backwards with the torque knee pointing forward instead of aft. I'm not sure how easy of a fix that is since I have yet to purchase a GJ 1:200 727-200, but I'm kind of glad I passed on this one.
That is usually not an issue on models with a turnable nose wheel (like most Gemini Jets have). You just turn the nose wheel around.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

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well made in china is the reason...........
Why should that be a reason for QC issues?
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:25 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

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Originally Posted by Charlie Alpha 757 View Post
That is usually not an issue on models with a turnable nose wheel (like most Gemini Jets have). You just turn the nose wheel around.
I tried turning mine around but once it gets to 90º it sticks. I didn't want to force it so I left it backwards.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

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Why should that be a reason for QC issues?
yea it shouldnt. my made in china computer, made in china train models, made in china clothes, made in china hogan models...ALL NICE in terms of QC. *ahem GJ.
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Old 06-12-2011, 02:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

Gemini should pay more the workers in china and reduce daily production maybe...
paint application and parts fiting can never be done in the rush .....
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Talking Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

All mine sitting in front of me are really very well executed but were made a few years back, so perhaps the answer is to speed up the workers and increase their workload?

I suspect Gemini is letting them get too soft. (*crack that whip*)
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:16 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

GJ lacks the will to do QC checks in the final products. Not to single them out, so with the QC issues of AV200, JC200, JX200 and IF200 and all done by the same factory. It is a losing battle.
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

The annoying thing about Gemini is their models are expensive. QC issues should be at a minimum but they're not

The military side of Gemini is Gemini Aces. The experience is similar where GA's earlier releases were good quality. The later releases haven't been with issues such as propeller blades fitted backwards, missing radio mast, gaps between wing and fuselage join, and poor fitting of undercarriage. Collectors have been posting on another forum if GA don't do something about the poor QC they won't be buying any more of their models.
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:34 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

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The annoying thing about Gemini is their models are expensive.
Uhhh...not as expen$ive as one other company.
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

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Uhhh...not as expen$ive as one other company.
I don't know (IF) that's the one you're thinking of, but I have a TWA 747 and Eastern 727-2 white that I really like...got 'em for a little less.
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Old 06-12-2011, 11:42 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

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Collectors have been posting on another forum if GA don't do something about the poor QC they won't be buying any more of their models.
oooo. cold but needed! if only DAC peeps would have the guts do the same haha. its sort of heart wrenching to see a model released in a livery youve wanted in for so long but stick to convictions and not get it based on the companys values! i broke and got two AA 763s and look where that ended me...without stands lol. perhaps my GJ "tirade" of somewhat-long past was warranted. too bad i got flamed for that one. oh GJ, honestly i soooo WANT to trust you! i honestly do

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Old 06-13-2011, 07:17 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

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Originally Posted by Ghostk View Post
Gemini should pay more the workers in china and reduce daily production maybe...
paint application and parts fiting can never be done in the rush .....
What a ridiculous comment..Wrong... Gemini does not have anything to do with paying the workers and does not own the factory. It owns the moulds. A contract with an agreeing factory is reached, the moulds are sent to that factory. Gemini is at the mercy of what the factory charges and has no input whatsoever as to what the factory pays it's workers, their benefits or anything else to do with the workers, it is totally out of their hands. I am not going to post anymore comments about factory quality issues, Kai the floor is all yours you may go on permanent attack cause thats what everyone here loves. I'm done for good on this issue.......
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:04 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

My NWA 727 is perfectly well executed, I guess I got lucky!
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

oh russ as you can see it's not only me now it's back by popular demand. I didn't even instigate...in fact I bought 2 767s with problems. I supported gemini but gemini failed to come through for me. how do you think I feel at the customer when you blame the very people you support?
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

note that none of what people said here is a personal attack on you I just wanna clarify that
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Old 06-14-2011, 09:32 AM   #19 (permalink)
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oh russ as you can see it's not only me now it's back by popular demand. I didn't even instigate...in fact I bought 2 767s with problems. I supported gemini but gemini failed to come through for me. how do you think I feel at the customer when you blame the very people you support?
how did they fail..did you get your stands???
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:09 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

Quality issues are accross all manufacturers to some degree. Metal Herpas seem to have reasonable finish etc but on retro stuff lack the finer design details like windschield shape and re: their DC-6B the whole shape of the nose !

They've all got problems from what I can see, and as CV says above, the manufacturers have no say over the factory operations. I even heard that 1 manu did not want to complain too much about a finished product, nor refuse to accept it, because the factory would not have taken any more business from them and on top of that sold the rejected models directly ! No win for manus in China methinks. Not be surprised if they look elsewhere very shortly.
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

Arrogance!
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:04 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

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What a ridiculous comment..Wrong... Gemini does not have anything to do with paying the workers and does not own the factory. It owns the moulds. A contract with an agreeing factory is reached, the moulds are sent to that factory. Gemini is at the mercy of what the factory charges and has no input whatsoever as to what the factory pays it's workers, their benefits or anything else to do with the workers, it is totally out of their hands. I am not going to post anymore comments about factory quality issues, Kai the floor is all yours you may go on permanent attack cause thats what everyone here loves. I'm done for good on this issue.......
the client always wins for business (I mean client = those who bring business to the factories in china)
so if gemini say no about the defects : the quality is not good enough... what do you think will happen? they will slow down and take more time and care.....
negociated price I am telling you...........
well we all have to live with it and it is kind of bad
too bad the workers are not well paid again.... you will never do a good job if you are underpaid IMO
isn't it ridiculous? yes it is ... this is the real world and it s..ks
we all know
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:25 PM   #23 (permalink)
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the client always wins for business (I mean client = those who bring business to the factories in china)
so if gemini say no about the defects : the quality is not good enough... what do you think will happen? they will slow down and take more time and care.....
Highly unlikely. If Gemini told this factory the product was sub-standard, that factory owner would likely tell Gemini 'too bad . . . go elsewhere.' and have a contract for a 'gazillion' cheap cast screwdriver sets in production faster than you could blink and eye. These guys running these places don't care a bit. And my understanding is, the types of places that normally handle our products are getting far and few between.

The real solution IS to own your own factory.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

Let's put Detroit back to work! But this time, making MODELS! How much do you think the retail prices would jump from what they are presently?
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

this is right but for smaller company
Gemini production line in quite a big market I think....for the factories
this will be quite strange from the factory to say ok produce somewhere else............
anyway I think that as long as people buy their product it is not a big deal for gemini......

we should all stop buying onlines........... (if possible)
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:38 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

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Let's put Detroit back to work! But this time, making MODELS! How much do you think the retail prices would jump from what they are presently?
double price I think ????
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:39 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

I would pay more if it would cost GJ more to insure better QC. Heck, I am paying extra to ship models back cause of defects. Rather put that money towards a nice model the first time around.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:57 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

At the end of the day it is down to collectors. Either they decide to stop buying GJ because of the QC issues or they continue to buy their models and accept the issues. If GJ does not see a fall in their sales of course they are going to do nothing.

I think all we can do is wait and see, and complain to GJ if we are unhappy. If the majority of collectors continue to buy GJ I suppose QC issues are here to stay.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:57 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

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how did they fail..did you get your stands???
nope. not yet.
failure came from not getting everything i had hoped for in the beginning. what if you bought a car and you found it didnt come with a steering wheel? its an extreme example but its along the same lines. GJ has accuracy locked down but for QC ive just been lucky to get all parts as advertised in previous purchases. ghostk makes an interesting point about buying online...if that can be helped.

but to GJ's credit, they said they will send me them as stated in my other thread. kudos for fast customer support. i have high hopes they will deliver on their word.

still, i dont understand why GJ continues to support the very companies they complain about. what good is an agreed upon contract if that contract isnt fulfilled? BUT to be my own devils advocate, perhaps GJ is really "made for collectors by collectors" - they seek to make models the collectorate wants, even if there are manufacturing troubles and headaches...at least after the sacrifice there will be a handful of good examples out there to satisfy the collectorate instead of zilch. im trying really hard to see it from GJ's standpoint...trust me, i am trying. hard.

russ, its in my hopes that you arent getting hot headed. if long time friends cant have a nice debate and disagree on things (mediated by DAC, thanks DAC!) then that would be a sad thing. you know i respect you after all youve done for me getting me started in the hobby. that has never changed and never will change.

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Old 06-14-2011, 03:04 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Highly unlikely. If Gemini told this factory the product was sub-standard, that factory owner would likely tell Gemini 'too bad . . . go elsewhere.' and have a contract for a 'gazillion' cheap cast screwdriver sets in production faster than you could blink and eye. These guys running these places don't care a bit. And my understanding is, the types of places that normally handle our products are getting far and few between.

The real solution IS to own your own factory.
kudos to that statement...you are not 100% but 1000% correct...that is what has happened many times..
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:08 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

Kai..no problem..just checked stands are on the way from China (with defects)and will be mailed to your retailer...
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:33 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

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Kai..no problem..just checked stands are on the way from China (with defects)and will be mailed to your retailer...
well then i might have to complain about those too.

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kudos to that statement...you are not 100% but 1000% correct...that is what has happened many times..
so, does people like hogan who dont have widespread QC complaints own their own factory? they are made in china too.

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Old 06-17-2011, 09:58 AM   #33 (permalink)
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. . . so, does people like hogan who dont have widespread QC complaints own their own factory? they are made in china too.
Possible. But those who own their own factories likely trade one set of ills for another. Finding reliable, detail-oriented people to do consistent work may be one -- especially for near-slave wages and nasty working conditions.

I might also add, that given the circumstances folks like Gemini have to go through to produce these models using 'contract' factories, I consider what comes out overall rather astonishing. From what I've read over the long number of months I've been here, there really aren't that many releases that are dogs. Oh, the odd model run has a caulk-up, but a great many others seem to be fine. I look at the Gemini issues in my own puny collection that ranges from 2005 and up, and I'm amazed at how crack-on they really look!

I think the frustration that many here experience is, that the odd caulked-up run is the model they were really waiting for -- and that can be a major disappointment, for sure.
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:08 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

I suppose if you really want that model then it's a reason why you put up with the QC issues. If the first model you receive is covered in glue smears then you'll return it for an exchange. However if the 2nd and 3rd models are in a similar condition then you're faced with the choice of either keeping the model or asking for your money back and not having the model at all
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Old 06-17-2011, 10:38 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

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I suppose if you really want that model then it's a reason why you put up with the QC issues. If the first model you receive is covered in glue smears then you'll return it for an exchange. However if the 2nd and 3rd models are in a similar condition then you're faced with the choice of either keeping the model or asking for your money back and not having the model at all
Well, the first one I purchased online. The 2nd and 3rd ones I saw at Aviation World in Vancouver. I'd rather order online as I don't get over to Vancouver that often. I have returned the one I purchased and the retailer says he will send me a replacement once he receives my return. So we will see what happens .
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:09 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

Hopefully the replacement will be of acceptable quality. It does raise another interesting question. What happens to all of the returned models? Presumably the retailer sends them back to the manufacturer. So if GJ produced a 500 run of 767's and 250 were returned due to QC issues. Wouldn't GJ be concerned?
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:42 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Angry Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

As mentioned before Bachmann and Hornby both produce extremely detailed much smaller models in a much smaller scale in China.And at affordeable prices!

How do they do it? Do they own their Factories?
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:51 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: GJ200 NW 727 QC issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by spear.m View Post
As mentioned before Bachmann and Hornby both produce extremely detailed much smaller models in a much smaller scale in China.And at affordeable prices!

How do they do it? Do they own their Factories?
that im not sure. bachmann isnt known for their quality and accuracy though but you wont find QC issues like missing handrails or chimes for sure. regardless, other train companies such as intermountain, athearn, atlas, all made in china have incredible accuracy and quality control.

the airplane modeling world is but a baby compared to the train modeling world. athearn a couple years back went through a really great low and i heard almost went out of business because their accuracy was so crappy and people stopped buying their stuff until they shaped up. now they make some incredible n scale items! will GJ go through one of these periods? i guess we will see. with all these kids in the airplane hobby buying anything left and right, i doubt it.
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