GARUDAROD

Okay folks. Contrary to some's opinion that we conspired to pull one over on the collectors of the world, the simple truth is, some of the American Eagle ERJ models were damaged during the manufacture process. These models were undetected until they were received at retailers shops around the world. Some of the models were damaged when the wings were stamped during the moulding process, causing the rear fuselage to bend. It should have been caught before they were shipped, but it wasn't. It is impossible for us to open hundreds or thousands of models to check each one is in perfect condition. WE APOLOGIZE!! Now if you are unhappy with your model, you may return it to your retailer you purchased it from for a refund. The model is sold out so we are unable to offer exchanges.

On behalf of GeminiJets, we do appreciate your business and understand you want perfection in your models. alas
mistakes happen. Thank you for purchasing our product, we are sorry for this inconvenience.

boiler0178

I am dumb to the process, but is it all possible the next time an ERJ is molded for whatever that release is to make an extra amount to replace the bent ones?

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arctic9048

Better idea: Get your stuff right the first time.

Pancho2009

As a fan from Gemini Jets.. first of all i must say that i have never a problem before.. until today.. i didn't bought the ERJ, but i bought the COPA 737 and GOL 737. The first one has the stamp from COPA AIRLINES like someone put the fingers on it before it was dry.. and the second, has the vertical stabilizer off and one engine like it wasn't finished (i'll put pictures later today).
I live in Chile, so sending my models back to retailers will be more expensive than buy a new one.. so im stuck with it...
I would love, that Gemini was able to do a better quality control, before the models are packed and leaves the factory in China.. It will save a headache to them and for us..

Best Regards,
Pancho

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Jet-X

Easier said than done. Try having someone on the factory line who doesn't know/care go through 2000+ models and determine if they're jacked up or not.

And you can spot check a lot of models, and never encounter the boxes that have the jacked up models in them.

It happens to everyone, no process is perfect.

Pancho2009

Basicaly, if im not lucky enough to get a model in good condition i have to deal with it... and you keep my money...
It doesn't sound like a fair trade off...
YOU guys should really improve your quality control...

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airplanenut5588

Rod, is there any possibility of a re-release? That way you could fix the fuselage bend and actually brand it as a ERJ-145 with the right amount of windows and correct reg.

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aae991

As an importer and diecast collector, here's my take on this...

I'm not defending anyone and am frustrated with my bent ERJ, BUT I deal with China everyday with my import business (industrial leather products). I have been to the factories many times and can tell you whether it's leather, metal, or plastic, mistakes happen BECAUSE the laborers are just that, low paid laborers in a relatively low-tech industry. They really don't care, because they get paid whether they do good work or not. The managers try, but most factories go through managers like water. Employees in China have no loyalty whatsoever. They constantly switch from factory to factory looking for the companies that might feed them better or give them a nicer place to live. Believe it or not, there is a labor shortage there too. Many workers have left the rural factories and gone to the city for better pay and better living conditions. Factories truly have to fight to keep warm bodies in the plant whether they're quality employees or not. QC in lower tech industries is VERY difficult to maintain. You've also got a major language barrier with multiple dialects of Chinese and a general difficulty understanding true American sentences. As they say, "things get lost in translation."

I have been to the factory to resolve a QC issue (that ultimately caused me to lose a customer) and told by management and the staff that they understood what needed to be fixed. The next shipment was just as screwed up and I lost the customer... Fortunately most of the production is good enough and the prices are so blasted low that China keeps going and shipping tons of stuff to the U.S. But as we're painfully aware, some crap gets through.

It's not an excuse by Rod or Russell to say it's difficult in China. It IS. It's also VERY frustrating for us consumers and business owners. Whether it's my import business or GJ200, we would much rather have a quality product. It's also not feasible to constantly switch factories, since they're all pretty much the same...

Don't shoot me for saying all this, but I speak from painful experience. By the way, countries like Vietnam and Cambodia are trying to get into low tech production and they're even worse than China. Sucks, doesn't it? It sure would be great to bring back production to the U.S., but no one can afford to buy it unless you're a Wall Street banker or a member of congress.

This is the reality of China most people never see... Believe me - after you see it you just shake your head in disbelief.

GARUDAROD

Pancho, I'm sorry your models were not without faults.
I would like to see the pictures of the COPA titles and the engine if you would please, send them to rod@geminijets.com. A little dab of glue on the stabilizer should fix that problem. Some times the models get knocked around in transit causing them to come off.

Don't know at this point. We are hesitant to reuse this mould if it is prone to this problem. That will be a decision
the president of the company will have to make.

smanish

I would say Gemini is gracious enough to formally accept this as defect. Not many guys in this industry do that. Try dealing with Herpa Premium on yellowing!!!

It is a good gesture and we must appreciate it. That said and as outlined in other posts QC is sample based. You can't test each and every thing, not when there is margin hardly of 5-10 bucks. Don't like it, get a refund and assume Gemini never released it, or at least not a good one.

Thanks Gemini for owning it up and my respect to you.

(Now if you can do something about dragster on some of the 737s )

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Jet-X

Not at all - return the model, get your money back. Enough said. No one said to just "deal with it" - my response was merely addressing the unrealistic expectation that 100% of a production run is going to be perfect, and every single model spot checked.

As for perfecting quality control, that can actually be done, but no collector (save a slim minority) would pony up the cash required for this efficiency once they got the final product.

crownvic

Bravo, I could not have said it better, even though I have tried....

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Real tomato ketchup Eddie?
Nothing but the best! "I don't know why they call this stuff hamburger helper. It does just fine by itself, huh? I like it better than tuna helper myself, don't you, Clark?"
"you're the gourmet around here, Ed!"

crownvic

Another factual statement.....its not as easy as it looks.....

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Real tomato ketchup Eddie?
Nothing but the best! "I don't know why they call this stuff hamburger helper. It does just fine by itself, huh? I like it better than tuna helper myself, don't you, Clark?"
"you're the gourmet around here, Ed!"

Rex

Thanks rod for the announcement of the mistake.
There's nothing we can do now but to let this one go. Mistakes or should I say SH1T do happen.

OT @ Crownvic, where's your crownvic cop car? :-)

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-Rex

B-16707

just a fact of diecast metal? i mean i dont see it happening with plastic.

Nick L.

Because the plastic would break before it bent. Sort of a Pyrrhic victory there...

crownvic

tell that to Herpa who I have spent thousands of dollars,,yes,,, let me repeat that,,, thousands on their models only to have them turn yellow....plastic isnt always perfect KAI........

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Gemini Jets 400 Scale....the company collectors love to hate but love to collect..
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Real tomato ketchup Eddie?
Nothing but the best! "I don't know why they call this stuff hamburger helper. It does just fine by itself, huh? I like it better than tuna helper myself, don't you, Clark?"
"you're the gourmet around here, Ed!"

aae991

I'm no expert on plastics, but I do know the molds are incredibly expensive. Once the molds are paid for, the actual cost of making the parts is cheap BUT it can take many, many parts to offset the cost of the mold. If the mold becomes defective, it's often tough to fix.

Aside from my import business, I have a part ownership in a custom-molded rubber company (in the US). Believe me when I say I have investigated the feasibility of making accessories for airliner collectors, but the costs of the molds and labor are prohibitive here in the U.S. I wanted to make things like jetbridges, etc... but the mold details and the risk of irreversible damage could not be recovered unless I sold many thousands of them. I seriously doubt there's a market that large for them. I even am friends with a mold maker - he said I'd be crazy to try ...

JSchultz

Amen to that one. I spent a couple thousand dollars on the LH Modelle edition/Premium series only to see those beautiful PLASTIC models turn yellow. Since then I have given up on plastic. I'd rather deal with the couple of off-printed or bent metal models then have my entire collection turn yellow

Delta_757

GARUDAROD, I really appreciate you coming on here and offering and explanation and apology. Mistakes happen, and obviously returning damaged models for a refund is satisfactory. Satisfactory, but disappointing. I hope GJ will reconsider re-releasing the American Eagle ERJ, so that those of us who want one have the opportunity to get one. I really want one, but the risk of playing spin the model isn't worth it. Food for thought for GJ, I guess.

hiwhataboutyou?

...mine is coming now, i hope it arrive in mint conditions, i cannot return this model later

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StarAllianceFlyer

As they say in China...没办法...pronounced mei ban fa and translated to "Nothing you can do about it".

Wonder if this was a material issue, that they used a softer metal that allowed the fuselage to bend, or if its an operator issue.

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smoothjazz

Wow, I didn't know there were issues on the AE ERJ models! I recieved my model yesterday and it came in good condition. I certainly will check the model again when I go home tonight. Hope other folks with problems could resolve the matter.

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BENJAMIN

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crownvic

WOW JSchultz a member since 1999 and only 56 posts!!!! Its nice to hear from you!

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Gemini Jets 400 Scale....the company collectors love to hate but love to collect..
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Real tomato ketchup Eddie?
Nothing but the best! "I don't know why they call this stuff hamburger helper. It does just fine by itself, huh? I like it better than tuna helper myself, don't you, Clark?"
"you're the gourmet around here, Ed!"

Charlie Alpha

Thank you for the apology. It means something to me. My ERJ is bent, but not that badly. I will keep it. I will also continue to buy Gemini 1/200 releases, my scale of choice. I think they offer the best value and usually consistent quality on the market. Mistakes do happen, but so far they have been rare.

Thank you for owning up to this problem, and I look forward to future releases.

Chris

clearedfor...

This problem is not just Gemini's. It seems that other ERJ 145's have this problem as well.

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HTF200

Does that mean that the South African Airways one is also bent ?
Or is it just a problem with American Airlines ?

Alaska Fan

um ... aren't the wings moulded separately?

ranchero

re: Chinese die cast quality

I do not believe that writing off quality control as impossible is a responsible or correct attitude. I believe Chinese production can be of consistent, high quality and that it should be.

All Gemini 200, Herpa metal 200 and Inflight 200 models I have from Chinese production are excellent and I have no quality complaints. But I have only a small number of die cast airplane models.

However I have thousands of Chinese 1/43 scale die cast metal model cars. The great majority were produced by Paul's Model Art Minichamps in China. The quality control is superb.

The company is a German one, based in Aachen. They have been producing model road vehicles, in a variety of scales, since about 1989. The largest portion of production is 1/43 scale road and racing cars. All production is in China. I have been buying these models since they were first introduced (an Audi racing car was the first model). They have been consistently superior. I have never had to return one.

Minichamps can do fine scale model production with successful quality control. Perhaps their volume is greater or perhaps they may own their own factory. For whatever reason their imported product that I buy in the USA has excellent quality control.

I suggest that the example set by Minichamps should be a goal of Gemini, Inflight, Jet X and the like. I believe Chinese quality control can be achieved based on my long term experience with Minichamps model cars.

- ranchero-

N. Eberhard

Any comparison between tiny model cars and large model airplanes is silly at best.

Jet-X

Agreed.

Getting a mould/tooling for a car is the only thing that Minichamps has to do. Once that's done, it's a matter of painting the car a different color.

They're not doing a ton of tamp printing on those model cars (which I collect, so I know what I'm talking about), just a base color change. Hard to screw that up.

A model airplane has multiple colors and a substantial number of tamps to be done. Far more room for error there than on a car.

klc317

At least they attempted a new mould that is lacking in 1:200th scale. I'll give Gemini that and other than the tiny bend mine has it is a great model otherwise. I'll still give GJ200 my business as more models roll out that interest me as 99% of mine have been defect free so far and have a ton more detail and realism than many of my original models (like Hogan and Skymarks). The ERJ is like a first year model car...there are always a few kinks to be ironed out and as it gets tweaked over time everything is OK.

N. Eberhard

Good point KLC. The fuselage on the ERJ is very slim and I'm convinced that it wasn't foreseen that it might bend, but clearly that issue will be a huge target on their radar with any future release.

ranchero

N. Eberhard: Obviously you know nothing about "the tiny model cars" produced by Minichamps. If you did, you would not mock the superior quality. So I say you are silly for making such an uknowing comment.

Jet X: They are in fact "doing a ton of tamp printing" on Minichamps models. This is about 40 on a 1/43 scale model and even more on a 1/18 scale one. These include logos, badges, trim, instruments, interior trim, etc. And of course, for racing cars, many more prints and sprayings are needed. Multiple small lenses are also installed. For the 1/18 models (larger and heavier than 1/200 scale airliners) there are many working parts too - including wheels, hoods, steering, lids, fuel doors, suspension, etc. The assembly of these models, in both scales, is much more demanding as many more individual parts are used.

Finally, what does the painting and tampo printing have to do with the poor quality control issue here? Nothing. What happened here is that a grossly out of shape casting was made then painted, printed, assembled and packaged - all steps without anyone noticing or bothering to reject it. That is gross incompetence. Why can't the bad casting simply be rejected? Why did it go all the way through assembly, packing and shipping? That is horrible quality control and I again speculate that such sloppy workmanship does not happen with Minichamps, nor should it be accepted in Chinese model production.

These 1/200 scale airliners are interesting and fun but they certainly do not meet the satisfying quality standards of Minichamps (or the similar production of the competitor Auto Art).

- ranchero -

airplanenut5588

I second the question, besides if it isnt affected then GJ could release a Eagle 135 which I would perfer over a 140 that is actually a 145 anyday. That reminds me I have a Question for Rod. Why did GJ decide to use a ERJ-145 mould and say it was a ERJ-140 by printing on less windows and putting a 140 reg on it? I'm not pissed or anything just curious as to the thought process.

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N. Eberhard

I did not mock their quality. I mocked your apples to watermelons comparison. Get over yourself and your silly little car collection already.

Nick L.

I disagree about model cars being relatively immune to QC problems, or that they have "less room for error".

I collect 1/18 scale die-cast car models and several fellow collectors have noticed an increasing QC problem with models of multiple manufacturers - glue stains, paint defects (especially critical on a car model), not enough glue causing parts to fall off, misapplied tampo printings or decals, missing parts, etc... I've been lucky so far - none of my cars have had any serious defects. But given the large number of parts that are present on a 1/18 car model (much, much more than a model airplane, 100 or more), there is the potential for a LOT to go wrong, and too often nowadays it does. There are some companies that can manage to have good quality control and still be made in China, but you pay dearly for those.

So I would say that it's pretty much just the reality of models made in China.

Nick

chexp77w

Can someone please post a picture of this issue? I should be getting mine soon! THANKS!!

Hawaiian717

Rod mentioned that is was SOME of the run that has the fault. I have mine, and in fact received it the day the container was opened in LAS. Without checking model after model mine is in perfect shape.

Although I'm sure painful to those who were really waiting for this model, what can I say.....it happens.

JTS97Z28

Just open any other thread about the AE ERJ there are a TON of pictures of the bend. Some have it some dont.

James

chexp77w

I just got my model today and its in good shape!! But i didnt get a stand that comes like the other models. Does this model not have one?

Unklbill

Beg to differ with you about complex tampo prints on 1:43 car models. The racing and rally versions have LOTS of multi-color, detailed tampos. If you're referring to street versions only, agreed, it's mainly color change.

Darryl

Well said, "Ranchero."

What we have here is a system process problem that is kept in place by lassie-faire business practices (Is there any wonder why Dr. Deming is so revered in Japan?) No matter if you are making a widget or a bridge, QC is an attitude. It all depends what level of that attitude you wish to take to heart.

Sorry Nick, but the comparison in completely relevant, as it does not matter if they are model cars or real ones – A lack of QC is at work here, and hiding behind excuses will not make it go away. No one expects perfection, and it is foolish at best to hide behind that as an excuse. What people expect (and it is a completely reasonable expectation) is an organization delivering the best quality they can and then standing behind the product. Offering poor excuses and laying blame on the personnel and manufacturing process – Your own manufacturing process – is sad. Gemini, I have seen your previous work, and you are better than this.

And finally, if there was to be an “Official Response” from the manufacturer, it should have come immediately after the issue had come to light. I am not a Gemini basher, as I collected the first 1:400’s when they hit our shores. I was even tempted to pick up some of the new 1:200 releases, but at the recent LAX show every, and I mean EVERY model I looked at had a QC issue. Very sad, as Gemini is capable of awesome models.

Make models not excuses.,

I have said my piece, now please let no further excuses “fly.”

727-200adv

And China wants to sell us a commercial jet.......

AUA200

Bottom line is that we, the customer, have the right to receive a perfect or near perfect model for our hard earned money. I'm not interested in all
those stories about how difficult it is to maintain QC in certain countries or
certain factories. If you're not happy get someone else to do the job and
keep in mind Keep the customer
satisfied!!
You're not the first and you won't be the last to get rid of lazy and complacent manufacturers.

AUA200

From 'Good luck Industries' managed by CEO, mr Kamikaze!!!

aae991

While I appreciate your attitude about QC, until you have gone to China and seen what really goes on there, you cannot fully understand what it takes to get "perfect" or near perfect products from there. If GJ200 dumped the factory involved, where do you think they will go? I have no doubt some factories are better than others, but the "QC attitude" you speak of is FAR from a normal way of life there. In short time it will be, but not yet. Whether it's GJ, importers like myself, or electronics manufacturers, QC is a MAJOR problem over there. It's not as easy as you'd like to think. Having the right attitude takes many years of cultural and financial development by a country like China. As said by others, no one in this hobby is willing to pay 2x or 3x the price for these models to have them made in a "western" country.

When I buy hard drives for my computer and see they're made in China, I return them. Why? Because I prefer hard drives made in Malaysia or Taiwan - they are built better and don't fail as often. These countries have been manufacturing for the world market much longer than China (other than garments). They have figured out how to do it and have a better sense of what QC means. But soon China will figure it out - and watch out when they do. Within 10 years, they will be so far ahead of the rest of the world it won't matter anymore. They're creating a culture of success (and QC) while the good 'ol USA is too busy worrying about political B.S., sports heroes, movie stars, and which pair of Nikes our kids are wearing. We've stopped caring about how to make the US a world-wide leader in anything. Scary stuff for a once great country that sadly seems to have lost their way. China is now becoming the world leader (along with Germany) for alternative energy technologies. Soon, China will sell more wind turbines on the world market than any other country. In the U.S., we're too busy catering to special interest groups in Washington to be bothered with progress. Gee - do you think I'm disgruntled about the direction our country is taking???

AUA200

Maybe you can learn something from an outstanding manufacturer like CMC, who makes diecast model cars or Century Wings, who makes large
scale diecast plane models. They're both Chinese firms!!!!

Madridista

The Gemini bottom line: Chinese people, Chinese technology and Chinese production facilities aren't able to deliver anything that nears to the great US quality standards. You have to take care of anything, you have to control their work and you have to complain about their poor attitude in order to put lipstick on the pig. In any way, you haven't made any error yourself. It's all about the others' attitude.
Nevertheless, Gemini lets them make these models. Interesting, isn't it?! Being a complete layperson, I would say something doesn't work in this argumentation.

Sounds a bit provoking? Hell, I hope it does!

Nevertheless... hang loose.

N. Eberhard

Believe me, I know more about Gemini 1/200 QC than just anybody here but that doesnt mean I am going to air that laundry on DAC. I am confident of who should shoulder most of the blame and his initials are DA. Sadly, this person has been left in his factory QC position for years and years due to his connections with part of the Gemini/ADI ownership. When he is replaced with someone more caring and competent then all of us will benefit.

I still stand by my tiny car vs. large model comparison. I could compare all kinds of products all day long but the argument loses credibility the further you go from the similarities of the products.