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Old 07-27-2021, 03:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

Hi all, I've been thinking about getting a Gemini KC135 but something is bugging me about the nose and front gear. I'm not sure what it is but the combination of the black paint on the nose and the front gear just does not look right. The front gear on its own also looks too large. Any thoughts?
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Old 07-27-2021, 03:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

pic and arrow of the area of concern?
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Old 07-27-2021, 05:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

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Old 07-27-2021, 05:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

If that bothers you, you may want to consider a new hobby.....just my opinion...or just imagine the Gemini version has no fuel, is empty, thus the longer nose gear strut.


3...2....1....
Now to hear from Madridista....
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Old 07-27-2021, 05:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

at least the winglets are correct ... sadly no removable gears!!
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Old 07-27-2021, 06:16 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

I have since long stopped comparing the models I got with photos of the 1/1 version. The problem is that you will always discover things that are "wrong" anyway, and then you can't ignore them any more, so in the end you will have seldom a satisfied feeling about most of the models you buy. For me personally, that would be the point at which I would decide that the hobby would be more negative than positive, and I would quit. And that is what I want to avoid. Of course, I am not talking about major (avoidable) errors, such as an incorrect registration number, or cases of damage. That is something quite different.

In any case, I do not judge the topic starter in any way, and I do respect the fact that there are differences between us forum members as regards the level of what you find acceptable or not regarding the correctness and accuracy of scale models. When I look at the pictures of the topic starter, I see also other differences that are at least as "big" as the "problem" of the black nose that he describes. For me personally, that nose issue, I would never have noticed that, because I know that, without doing the exercice of comparing it with the aid of some 1/1 pictures (again, for me personally) the difference would not be big enough to detect on the spot.

I think that it is probably very difficult to get all these things correct. I don't mean technically or mechanically, but rather in terms of the cost that each postponement of a production run would entail, because for the umpteenth time they would decide to adjust the prints and tampo a new sample model. The harder you search for differences, the more often you will have to repeat this cycle in the whole development process. Of course, in the end you would get the perfect model indeed, but I do not even dare to think about the price that in this case would be asked for it. Russ feel free to correct me if I am wrong with this statement.
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Old 07-27-2021, 08:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

deephalo, no offense taken as you are new to this forum and your participation has been most beneficial. Im not going to get into the reason for my comment as the original thread starter does have a history of asking similar questions about the manufacturer qualities of other models from other makers as well.

Ok I know there are many who will respond that this is a forum where people ask questions and need answers. Yes I know that, but for the 20 plus years I have been participating, there are hundreds of topics complaining about all manufacturers and the errors. Most are nearly noticeable with few very obvious. I will admit that Gemini wins that award lately.

Bottom line is these models in most cases will never be perfect and neither will those who criticize or purchase them... In case you missed it refer to this thread.

https://www.diecastaircraftforum.com...mplainers.html

that sums it all up....
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Old 07-27-2021, 09:01 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

Hey all, I appreciate your comments but lets cool this down a bit. I simply asked for your thoughts. If you have nothing constructive to add then rather move on to the next thread. I do not sit here judging what is acceptable to you and, quite frankly, would appreciate the same courtesy. What may be acceptable to you may not be to me, and what is not acceptable to you may be absolutely fine in my view. So lets rather respect one another as fellow collectors and refrain from playing the man ..... play the ball.
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Old 07-27-2021, 11:14 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

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Originally Posted by crownvic View Post
deephalo, no offense taken as you are new to this forum and your participation has been most beneficial. ...
No offence taken at all. I think we generally have the same opinion. Maybe I am less sensitive to it, perhaps because I am still "fresh and new". Only joking. But the thread you quoted there, I had indeed already read it. So I understand the reason for your comment. What I am especially allergic to is bashing in a photo thread where someone shows his new model, simply becauses it ruins the joy of the collector. But I must say that I really don't come across that much since I have been on this forum.

What I wanted to say is that people often use the wrong frame of reference for perfection in this hobby. That is at least my opinion. To make the "perfect model", I think you need much more development time, which would translate into much higher prices. That is what I wanted to explain with my last paragraph. When I see how often (in my professional life at the Justice departement) our software has to be tested again and again before we can go into production, simply because we cannot afford mistakes. Test cycles (which is in fact quality control) often last longer than the initial development. We really pay a lot of money for this (we should even be ashamed), but we are the governement, and we are not a poor country, so in the end we don't really care. But imagine you would apply the same philosophy of endless corrective cycles on these airplanes before even running the first production batch. I bet it is theoretically possible to make museum grade models in scale 1/200, but you end up paying what, 300 USD, 500 USD ... ? I would not be surprised it will even be more.

Look for example at Savyboats.com. You will find fantastically beautiful and very reasonably priced model ships there. I communicated with that owner some time ago. You can get any model they offer also in museum quality without any problem, but then you just add a zero to the price. Very simple. So I think we must never stop realizing that manufacturers are always faced with the task of finding a balance between quality and price, which indeed imposes more restrictions on development time and the extent to which one wants to - or can go - into detail.

Apart from that, I personally am in the opinion that Gemini Jets makes excellent models. Of my 500+ copies, about 80 are GJ so I think I am entitled to compare a little bit. The real top gems in my collection are generally GJ and I enjoy them every day. Taken into account the price I pay for them, for me they are indeed perfect models. And as I said before in another thread, I am not the person who will notice a printed line being a planck-length too high or too low. Even things that are so wrong that they are unacceptable for a scale model, I will not quickly notice myself. So, as for me, when showing my new acquisitions, I will look up information left and right about the real model and write a story about it. The advantage is that most models have a nice story behind them...

Cheers, Deephalo

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Old 07-27-2021, 11:46 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

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Originally Posted by deephalo View Post
Of my 500+ copies, about 80 are GJ so I think I am entitled to compare a little bit. The real top gems in my collection are generally GJ and I enjoy them every day.


Cheers, Deephalo
You got over 500 1/200 models? Wow.. that is insane

I guess each of us have our tolerance, but i still can't forgive GJ for the a330-900 wingtips....lol...

I do see the OP point about the gear issue but for me, that would be a little less of a problem unless it was a more blatant discrepancy. The paintjob difference is a little less.

For me, the most important thing about a rel is the overall physical form then the paint job.
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Old 07-27-2021, 11:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

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You got over 500 1/200 models? Wow.. that is insane
I will tell you how I got there so quickly. Every Thursday evening my wife, who works in Switzerland, takes the plane in Geneva airport back to Brussels. In the tax-free zone they have there a shop with model aeroplanes. I told her that a newly acquired 1/200 scale model aeroplane in your handluggage brings luck and prevents you from crashing.

Just up to now, she never crashed...
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Old 07-27-2021, 12:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

Never bought any GJ KC-135's due to their unrealistic landing gear and botched nose section. A real shame as I'd love to have one in my collection. There have been requests for improvement for many years, but they couldn't care less to listen to their customers.
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Old 07-27-2021, 12:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

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Originally Posted by Jan Jasinski View Post
Never bought any GJ KC-135's due to their unrealistic landing gear and botched nose section. A real shame as I'd love to have one in my collection. There have been requests for improvement for many years, but they couldn't care less to listen to their customers.
Point taken, but the retooling costs make it prohibitive. I never knew there was an issue with the gear and still dont see any issue.
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Old 07-27-2021, 01:38 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

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Originally Posted by crownvic View Post

3...2....1....
Now to hear from Madridista....
Madridista still MIA
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Old 07-27-2021, 01:57 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

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Madridista still MIA
Maybe he is just still writing his reply...
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Old 07-27-2021, 02:44 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

Antws, thank you for bringing this up. You bring a valid point. If there should be a re-boot of the KC-135, then there is hopefully an opportunity for Gemini to make adjustments to the black nose markings and the nose gear.

We have not seen older variants, the KC-135A's with the Pratt & Whitney J57-P-59W turbojet engines from Gemini, which is my reason for holding off. If such a release ever see's production, hopefully these could be improved then.

In any case, I say get one anyway! They still look great! You can always solve the high stance issue by sanding off the base of the nose gear, which I have done with a few of my 737's.
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Old 07-27-2021, 04:34 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

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Point taken, but the retooling costs make it prohibitive. I never knew there was an issue with the gear and still dont see any issue.
I believe the main issue is the fact that the gears are not fitted properly from the fuselage. It makes the gears look tall and reveal the white portion of the insert. I understand the real thing has big gears, but the model seems to have strange proportions and the odd nose shape doesn't help the look. No matter what angle I look at, it has put me off from purchasing.
Attached Thumbnails
KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear-screen-shot-2021-07-27-4.23.59-pm.jpg   KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear-screen-shot-2021-07-27-4.27.13-pm.jpg   KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear-screen-shot-2021-07-27-4.34.18-pm.jpg   KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear-screen-shot-2021-07-27-4.32.29-pm.jpg  
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Old 07-28-2021, 03:23 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

Thanks Seven-Eight-Seven and Jan for the valuable feedback, I'm not pedantic but when I first looked at the model it immediately struck me something did not look right and thats why I wanted to get others' thoughts on this :-)
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Old 07-29-2021, 03:14 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I purchased a few. This doesn't bother me sa much as dc9 10 series with the wrong dc9 30 wings. Different manufacturer but same issue.
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Old 07-29-2021, 05:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

I have one KC-135 from Gemini. Except for the first inch or so of the nose, it is a great looking model. Like me it seems to have a bit of a chubby chin. The cockpit also looks a bit low as well. However, with about 300 models on display I don’t look at it closely very often, so I can live with it. With that said, I would not add another one. Gemini does a very good job overall, in my opinion. There are 44 of Gemini models on display in my office. The KC-135 is my least least favorite of these.

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Old 07-30-2021, 01:29 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: KC135: Thoughts on the nose and front gear

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Originally Posted by crownvic View Post
3...2....1....
Now to hear from Madridista....
Did I miss something, Sir?!

Comparing constructive criticism to any kind of splitting hair really disturbs me.

That being said, I already checked out the topic when the OP‘s comparing photos were still loading/visible (they don’t do now, at least not on my portable device). The shortcomings of GJ’s 707 (KC-135) and its nose section are well known and not worth mentioning anymore. Several forum members said that above in the meantime. What I could’ve added is that I think the long NLG strut is probably caused by and improperly mounted NLG (recoverable shortcoming), whereas the OP’s non-satisfaction with the front section is probably the mould itself (unrecoverable shortcoming). The latter makes it a decision of “Can you live with it - then buy it. If not - don’t buy it”. Nonetheless, apart from the odd-looking NLG here, I don’t think the GJ 707 is the worst thing I’ve ever seen.
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