Let's hope so. Gemini announced it too so one must be in time for october
__________________
Main collections: Lufthansa, KLM, Martinair, Transavia, Pan Am, Delta. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Still a disappointment, no KLM B747-406 or 406M with 100 Years KLM on em yet.
Even though a shame they didn't keep their MD-11's ins service either, they would have had enough potential even these days.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
__________________
Main collections: Lufthansa, KLM, Martinair, Transavia, Pan Am, Delta. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Well I was actually expecting the one wearing the KLM Wave Livery, just like PH-BFS does or an other one maybe
Here the KLM B747-406M, PH-BFS "City of Shanghai" with the KLM Wave Livery and the 100 Years art on it:
Photo is made by Chris De Breun, from Jet Photo's.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Last edited by Gold Leader; 09-13-2019 at 11:01 PM.
Well I was actually expecting the one wearing the KLM Wave Livery, just like PH-BFS does or an other one maybe [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/images/smilies/cool.gif[/IMG]
Here the KLM B747-406M, PH-BFS "City of Shanghai" with the KLM Wave Livery and the 100 Years art on it:
Photo is made by Chris De Breun, from Jet Photo's.
PH-BFS is City of Seoul, which does not have the latest KLM livery yet. You probably mean the PH-BFW 😉
__________________
Follow me on Instagram: @retrohangardiecast
Check out my reviews and other articles on yankeevictor400.com
I am selling and trading 1/400 models, send a PM for details.
Nope, the letter J is used for scalemodels only. City of Jakarta has the registration PH-BFI.
I stand corrected, although my registration makes more sense to me [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/images/smilies/frown.gif[/IMG]
It can be a bit confusing indeed, just like the BFW as I mentioned above hahaha
__________________
Follow me on Instagram: @retrohangardiecast
Check out my reviews and other articles on yankeevictor400.com
I am selling and trading 1/400 models, send a PM for details.
PH-BFS is City of Seoul, which does not have the latest KLM livery yet. You probably mean the PH-BFW ��
Well I meant City of Shanghai and this is the latest KLM livery on a KLM B747, unless you can prove me otherwise
Some of the registration numbers make little sense, PH-BFT = City of Tokyo, as where PH-BFB was City of Bangkok, but City of Shanghai is like PH-BFW lol, yea always gets confusing at times.
Only B747's count for me if I have to be honest, as I don't interest about much else when it came to collecting..
Unless it's a SST, that is very exceptional and yes KLM Had B2707's planned like 6 of em, would of been something if that became a thing.
Even though I don't think KLM's B747's will ever see a later livery than KLM's Wave Livery with the 100 Years art on it.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Last edited by Gold Leader; 09-14-2019 at 05:53 AM.
Well I meant City of Shanghai and this is the latest KLM livery on a KLM B747, unless you can prove me otherwise [IMG class=inlineimg]https://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/images/smilies/wink.gif[/IMG]
Some of the registration numbers make little sense, PH-BFT = City of Tokyo, as where PH-BFB was City of Bangkok, but City of Shanghai is like PH-BFW lol, yea always gets confusing at times.
Only B747's count for me if I have to be honest, as I don't interest about much else when it came to collecting..
Unless it's a SST, that is very exceptional and yes KLM Had B2707's planned like 6 of em, would of been something if that became a thing.
Even though I don't think KLM's B747's will ever see a later livery than KLM's Wave Livery with the 100 Years art on it.
I currently don't have anything else than 747's in KLM or Martinair livery aswell. Trying to get all aircraft that they have used would be a bit too expensive and would take up too much space...
And indeed, they probably won't get a new livery, the ones which still have the old livery will retire soon anyway.
__________________
Follow me on Instagram: @retrohangardiecast
Check out my reviews and other articles on yankeevictor400.com
I am selling and trading 1/400 models, send a PM for details.
I was arriving at Schiphol this morning. Old and new liveries with 100 years stickers everywhere in the meantime. Only two 747's in the new livery and with 100 year stickers, no more planned for repainting. Still a little hope for a retro before the last one leaves the fleet.
The 787 is the future with KLM, hence the special livery on the -10. I have added the 787-10 to the collection and added some pics with KLM's first owned airplane, a Fokker F-II in the same scale (1:200)
Still a disappointment, no KLM B747-406 or 406M with 100 Years KLM on em yet.
Even though a shame they didn't keep their MD-11's ins service either, they would have had enough potential even these days.
At one point I had some hope the MD-11 would become a freighter, but with the decline of that market, that hope quickly disappeared. Probably more likely we'll see a 777 in the freighter role once the 747 freighters will leave the fleet.
The B747 is a far more reliable design, they been around for well over 50 years and will continue being used for a good 40 a 50 years moreespecially in the freighter market
B747-8 Freighters are still being built as they can carry 135 to 137 metric tons of freight, al depending on payload contents, they can take off and land with much less needed space than any twin engien aircraft can possibly dream of doing.
KLM has several B747-406F/ER/SCD's in service these have extra fuel tanks in the lower front section giving these the needed range to transport their heavy payloads, imo KLM should invest in the B747-806F/SCD instead a much better all round workhorse for some serious airlifting.
As for the Boeing/McDonnell Douglas MD-11F, KLM should of kept these, they were way too young to be put out of service, heck these were younger than the B747-406M's... just a major disappointment how money is wasted on poor technologies as where the better technologies are left aside...
KLM should of used these as well as they would of done the fleet a lot of good, they too have great short take off & landing specs over most conventional twin engine aircraft designs, MD-11's were plain awesome.
Yeah I am a fan of the B747 & MD-11, mainly due to it being great designs with little flaws to the base designs them self, no unreliable software that would cause a terrible accident...Just the real deal instead.
The Boeing 747 is still by far the most successful aircraft design known by man kind, not one design touches it's robust qualities of it's age and time, from the 1567 B747's built 15 were lost due accidents as where only 3 were due to mechanical failures, all there others were due to human error.
The B787 was drowned in issues in the start and some are still grounded due to issues with the Rolls Royce Trent 1000 series engines and MCAS software, yet the ones using GeNX 1A's seem to be quite decent, still I'd not feel safe on an aircraft with 2 engines, if it don't have four I won't fly it
The illfated B737 MAX suffered MCAS issues, the Airbus A330 also, as QANTAS Flight 72 goes.. New doesn't always have to mean better, people still make these same mistakes and that is just depressing to me if I have to be honest.
Adding software in civil aircraft is just a stupid idea, that is asking for fatal errors.
everything new-gen might look better on paper but in reality I have never seen so many technical issues and failures ever, if comparing to how much better the B747 actually did, the B747 makes all these new gen jets look like a practical joke, sorry to spoil your party here.
Cheaper to use, less maintenance costs over the safety of the passengers, something I'd never fall for it's all about saving money over saving people , the B737 MAX is a good example.
Anyways nuff said, agree to disagree I'll accept your opinions or/and thoughts
Have a nice night.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Very nice pics Maarlandair! I see youve got the new inflight 787-10 mold! Goldleader, I agree with you on the 747 but the 777 is a very reliable aircraft too with over 1500 built and an out standing safety record with zero fatalities due to aircraft related problems! Maybe a boring design, I agree, but an outstanding aircraft.
__________________
Main collections: Lufthansa, KLM, Martinair, Transavia, Pan Am, Delta. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
The B747 is a far more reliable design, they been around for well over 50 years and will continue being used for a good 40 a 50 years moreespecially in the freighter market
B747-8 Freighters are still being built as they can carry 135 to 137 metric tons of freight, al depending on payload contents, they can take off and land with much less needed space than any twin engien aircraft can possibly dream of doing.
KLM has several B747-406F/ER/SCD's in service these have extra fuel tanks in the lower front section giving these the needed range to transport their heavy payloads, imo KLM should invest in the B747-806F/SCD instead a much better all round workhorse for some serious airlifting.
As for the Boeing/McDonnell Douglas MD-11F, KLM should of kept these, they were way too young to be put out of service, heck these were younger than the B747-406M's... just a major disappointment how money is wasted on poor technologies as where the better technologies are left aside...
KLM should of used these as well as they would of done the fleet a lot of good, they too have great short take off & landing specs over most conventional twin engine aircraft designs, MD-11's were plain awesome.
Yeah I am a fan of the B747 & MD-11, mainly due to it being great designs with little flaws to the base designs them self, no unreliable software that would cause a terrible accident...Just the real deal instead.
The Boeing 747 is still by far the most successful aircraft design known by man kind, not one design touches it's robust qualities of it's age and time, from the 1567 B747's built 15 were lost due accidents as where only 3 were due to mechanical failures, all there others were due to human error.
The B787 was drowned in issues in the start and some are still grounded due to issues with the Rolls Royce Trent 1000 series engines and MCAS software, yet the ones using GeNX 1A's seem to be quite decent, still I'd not feel safe on an aircraft with 2 engines, if it don't have four I won't fly it
The illfated B737 MAX suffered MCAS issues, the Airbus A330 also, as QANTAS Flight 72 goes.. New doesn't always have to mean better, people still make these same mistakes and that is just depressing to me if I have to be honest.
Adding software in civil aircraft is just a stupid idea, that is asking for fatal errors.
everything new-gen might look better on paper but in reality I have never seen so many technical issues and failures ever, if comparing to how much better the B747 actually did, the B747 makes all these new gen jets look like a practical joke, sorry to spoil your party here.
Cheaper to use, less maintenance costs over the safety of the passengers, something I'd never fall for it's all about saving money over saving people , the B737 MAX is a good example.
Anyways nuff said, agree to disagree I'll accept your opinions or/and thoughts
Have a nice night.
Great plea for the iconic 747 and MD-11 (and DC-10). I feel what you feel. Personally I regret the fact that these great machines have left or will leave KLM in the (near) future. I remember the ETOPS days in the beginning and thought then; these machines will never replace the existing aircraft on long hole, but they did. When the 747-8 came out, I had some hopes it would appear in KLM livery.
It is becoming a little boring with only twins around for long hole. Wonderfull machines but also from a collectors point of view a little bit disappointing .
It seems KLM places less priority on their full freigher cargo operations. More or less in line with Schiphol airport. I would be supprised if the 747 combi will be converted to full freigher as was done with the 747-200 (first SUD and than SUD SF). The reason the 777 has a better chance is just based on the fact that AF already has them in service. Pure speculation on my part.
KLM replaced the MD-11 because there where not many operators left. Spare parts became an issue. It would have been a great if one had ended up at the Aviodrome aviation museum in The Netherlands.
Anyway, let's hope at least the 747 will be around for years to come. Still the queen of the skies!
Maarlandair, I love your pictures, it is very rare to see pre WWII aircraft in a collection.
I have a few of them (home built) in my AF fleet, I will publish pictures very soon.
I really love this Fokker ...
Jean Pierre.
Thanks Jean Pierre, I do have several pre WWII aircraft, (among others F-III, F-VIII, F-XVIII) but am terrible with a camera. I will make an attempt to shoot a few decent pics soon as well.
My goal is to collect at least one of each aircraft KLM ever flew with, but that is a big challenge. Continuously looking for kits and buiders but they are rare or become more and more difficult to find.
Very nice pics Maarlandair! I see youve got the new inflight 787-10 mold! Goldleader, I agree with you on the 747 but the 777 is a very reliable aircraft too with over 1500 built and an out standing safety record with zero fatalities due to aircraft related problems! Maybe a boring design, I agree, but an outstanding aircraft.
Yes I did. They managed to get it done on time!
Agree on the 777, the replacement of the 747 so far on may of KLM's routes. The 747 has proven to be a reliable aircraft as Gold Leader pointed out, but the statement 4 engines for long haul as Virgin once put on their A340-600 looks like a thing of the past.
Congratulations Maarlandair on two highly inspirational models The first and the last current, and in two days time, 17th October 2019 - Happy 100th KLM. A Great achievement
Congratulations Maarlandair on two highly inspirational models The first and the last current, and in two days time, 17th October 2019 - Happy 100th KLM. A Great achievement
Thanks Aussiejets,
The little Fokker was made by Bob Dros, a modelmaker from Amsterdam who recently stopped his business. I'm happy he is currenctly making his very last commercial model for me; a Fokker F-VIIa. Not many modelmakers left who do 1:200.
... but the statement 4 engines for long haul as Virgin once put on their A340-600 looks like a thing of the past.
Statistically speaking it is true but today with an engine problem right in the middle of Siberia between Western Europe and Japan, you have to find a suitable airport to land, usually at night, your big twin engine aircraft.
There are not many ...
And that's the beginning of big problems ...
I have always considered that Siberia was a wide ocean unsuitable for land aircraft.
With four engines under your wings things are much easier, even if you have to continue your flight on three engines.
I confirm, four engines for long haul is much better.
Statistically speaking it is true but today with an engine problem right in the middle of Siberia between Western Europe and Japan, you have to find a suitable airport to land, usually at night, your big twin engine aircraft.
There are not many ...
And that's the beginning of big problems ...
I have always considered that Siberia was a wide ocean unsuitable for land aircraft.
With four engines under your wings things are much easier, even if you have to continue your flight on three engines.
I confirm, four engines for long haul is much better.
Jean Pierre.
I'm actually curious if there are still many "white" spots left in the world which the modern long range twins should better avoid these days. I think most airlines accept a little detour if they can use a twin that way.
Great plea for the iconic 747 and MD-11 (and DC-10). I feel what you feel. Personally I regret the fact that these great machines have left or will leave KLM in the (near) future. I remember the ETOPS days in the beginning and thought then; these machines will never replace the existing aircraft on long hole, but they did. When the 747-8 came out, I had some hopes it would appear in KLM livery.
It is becoming a little boring with only twins around for long hole. Wonderfull machines but also from a collectors point of view a little bit disappointing .
It seems KLM places less priority on their full freigher cargo operations. More or less in line with Schiphol airport. I would be supprised if the 747 combi will be converted to full freigher as was done with the 747-200 (first SUD and than SUD SF). The reason the 777 has a better chance is just based on the fact that AF already has them in service. Pure speculation on my part.
KLM replaced the MD-11 because there where not many operators left. Spare parts became an issue. It would have been a great if one had ended up at the Aviodrome aviation museum in The Netherlands.
Anyway, let's hope at least the 747 will be around for years to come. Still the queen of the skies!
Air France will be the Doom or say ending of KLM, they have ruined so much already KLM should of never joined an alliance with them it was a bad plan form the start... Most people here in the Netherlands are extremely upset and disappointed on how Air France is trying to ruin KLM... https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea....rance-divorce/
Plenty of such articles can be found and it's also a very common subject on the news.
So in order to get rid of Air France they are making smart moves like sniping away Stakes from the French partner this is a method to fight back well at least anyways
"France has reacted frostily to the Dutch government's sudden purchase of a stake in Air France-KLM in attempt to counter French influence.
Shares in the airline company fell 11% after the Netherlands government said late on Tuesday it was acting to protect "Dutch interests".
The Dutch bought a 14% stake, aiming to match France's 14.3% share.
French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire insisted the company should be "managed without national public interference".
The Dutch move began late on Tuesday, with an initial acquisition of 12.7% of Air France-KLM shares."
Personally KLM needs to stand their grown and get rid of this Air France menace they got them self in to, it was a bad plan since day one, we want a Dutch Airline snot some French one with French methods... f*ck that
Anyways this really bothers me as well as many other Dutch people I am connected with like family, friends and such, it's a very large concern and French people won't even agree obviously ( no ofense to French people from here
But all I see it though KLM's eyes are that things aren't going the way they are supposed to be going, a similar thing happened with Concorde, Air France & Airbus are to blame for the mess, they were also to blame that the runway was no cleaned, the Concorde used wasn't checked and maintained properly it has over 2000 pounds of taxi fuel which made it over weight as well, such things.
that crash should of never happened, but anyways..
BA could of stood their ground and kept their Concorde flying for many more years to come, sadly also broken apart and lost..even that was a different case it was rather similar to how that all came to place just like what is happening to KLM atm.
if KLM was on their own, they would of kept the B747-400M's for a much longer time and the B747-8i-Combi could also of been a thing, but sadly not the case now.
B777's aren't as ideal as B747-400's are they can't perform well with short runways as where the B747 actually can, there are no combi versions of the B777 possible the airframe is too weak to support such a design, many disadvantages compared to the B747. it's only cheaper so yea that seems to be the greater importance just an other failure by man kind that is all i see here.
The saddest part is that humans always need to make huge fatal errors to understand what and why they were doing something wrong,and with this I mean using MCAS software in planes software that is not even fully tested left alone not even known by pilots in an overall basis, some pilots don't even know how to even cooperate with it, and just the fact that software is needed to make a plane fly it's just asking for disaster and it happened twice with the B737 MAX and a few times with other aircraft like the A330 & A350.. some accidents are not even documented it's all flaky and unreliable monkey business, lots of lies and fables are used to hide such things and they want to keep flying safe, this is the opposite of safe.
But anyways it is what it is for me the Boeing 747, MD-11 DC-10 as Concorde will live on in my mind for many years as the Aviodrome goes I am partial owner of their 1978 KLM B747-206B(M)SUD I can bring up the MD-11 concept see if they will add one to the museum I think I can at least take that in to notice there.
I'll see what I can do tho.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Last edited by Gold Leader; 09-15-2019 at 08:52 PM.
Congratulations Maarlandair on two highly inspirational models The first and the last current, and in two days time, 17th October 2019 - Happy 100th KLM. A Great achievement
Well I got the date wrong there founded 7th of October 1919 first flight 17th of May 1920 with the Fokker pictured above. Sorry about that. That's were I got the dates mixed up. Still love this photo and you are one lucky collector to have these two. That reminds me I need an AVRO 504K made this year in 1:200 scale!
Air France will be the Doom or say ending of KLM, they have ruined so much already KLM should of never joined an alliance with them it was a bad plan form the start... Most people here in the Netherlands are extremely upset and disappointed on how Air France is trying to ruin KLM... https://liveandletsfly.boardingarea....rance-divorce/
Plenty of such articles can be found and it's also a very common subject on the news.
So in order to get rid of Air France they are making smart moves like sniping away Stakes from the French partner this is a method to fight back well at least anyways
"France has reacted frostily to the Dutch government's sudden purchase of a stake in Air France-KLM in attempt to counter French influence.
Shares in the airline company fell 11% after the Netherlands government said late on Tuesday it was acting to protect "Dutch interests".
The Dutch bought a 14% stake, aiming to match France's 14.3% share.
French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire insisted the company should be "managed without national public interference".
The Dutch move began late on Tuesday, with an initial acquisition of 12.7% of Air France-KLM shares."
Personally KLM needs to stand their grown and get rid of this Air France menace they got them self in to, it was a bad plan since day one, we want a Dutch Airline snot some French one with French methods... f*ck that
Anyways this really bothers me as well as many other Dutch people I am connected with like family, friends and such, it's a very large concern and French people won't even agree obviously ( no ofense to French people from here
But all I see it though KLM's eyes are that things aren't going the way they are supposed to be going, a similar thing happened with Concorde, Air France & Airbus are to blame for the mess, they were also to blame that the runway was no cleaned, the Concorde used wasn't checked and maintained properly it has over 2000 pounds of taxi fuel which made it over weight as well, such things.
that crash should of never happened, but anyways..
BA could of stood their ground and kept their Concorde flying for many more years to come, sadly also broken apart and lost..even that was a different case it was rather similar to how that all came to place just like what is happening to KLM atm.
if KLM was on their own, they would of kept the B747-400M's for a much longer time and the B747-8i-Combi could also of been a thing, but sadly not the case now.
B777's aren't as ideal as B747-400's are they can't perform well with short runways as where the B747 actually can, there are no combi versions of the B777 possible the airframe is too weak to support such a design, many disadvantages compared to the B747. it's only cheaper so yea that seems to be the greater importance just an other failure by man kind that is all i see here.
The saddest part is that humans always need to make huge fatal errors to understand what and why they were doing something wrong,and with this I mean using MCAS software in planes software that is not even fully tested left alone not even known by pilots in an overall basis, some pilots don't even know how to even cooperate with it, and just the fact that software is needed to make a plane fly it's just asking for disaster and it happened twice with the B737 MAX and a few times with other aircraft like the A330 & A350.. some accidents are not even documented it's all flaky and unreliable monkey business, lots of lies and fables are used to hide such things and they want to keep flying safe, this is the opposite of safe.
But anyways it is what it is for me the Boeing 747, MD-11 DC-10 as Concorde will live on in my mind for many years as the Aviodrome goes I am partial owner of their 1978 KLM B747-206B(M)SUD I can bring up the MD-11 concept see if they will add one to the museum I think I can at least take that in to notice there.
I'll see what I can do tho.
I recoqnize your frustration, I feel that too when I read the news about revenues, strikes, trouble in the boardroom etc...but KLM can't be a long term survivor without a partner. Whether that partner should have been AF in the current construction will remain the 1 million dollar question. Fact is that the organizations are entangled and need to work their differences out. I am quite sure both airlines can learn from eachother, but there needs to be a willingness to do so. At times I feel personal ego's or "my way is the only way" stands in the way and that costs the group money, lot's of it.
I remember a discussion at the Aviadrome to add a Douglas jet to the collection. An old DC-8 which once flew for KLM I believe it was. Money was an issue then and the plan was fridged.
To add an MD-11 (or even a DC-10) to the collection looks like a bridge too far for me right now. That opportunity was possibly there when KLM and Martinair were phasing out their machines. Nevertheless it would be great to see another widebody in their collection. At least they are still aound.
Well I got the date wrong there founded 7th of October 1919 first flight 17th of May 1920 with the Fokker pictured above. Sorry about that. That's were I got the dates mixed up. Still love this photo and you are one lucky collector to have these two. That reminds me I need an AVRO 504K made this year in 1:200 scale!
Ahhh dates, I know what you mean
I do read an interesting comment though. "Qantas is phasing out its last 747 before it turns 100 years old". Wouldn't that be a feast if they do a proper retrojet then? I hope you get lucky.....
Thanks Aussiejets,
The little Fokker was made by Bob Dros, a modelmaker from Amsterdam who recently stopped his business. I'm happy he is currenctly making his very last commercial model for me; a Fokker F-VIIa. Not many modelmakers left who do 1:200.
If you get the new Fokker model, please post pictures! Very curious about those lovely old Fokkers. A firma named Artitec ( normaly they produce trains and boats) are going to make some old Fokkers in HO scale, 1:87
__________________
Main collections: Lufthansa, KLM, Martinair, Transavia, Pan Am, Delta. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I could have sworn I read something around the time the retro livery 737-800 got resprayed into standard livery that it was partly because there were supposed to be 'new' retros in the pipeline for the 2019 anniversary ?
Perhaps work is underway for an October reveal ? Who knows, but like others here, I'd love to see something done.
__________________ Let's be having, the British Airways/British, Negus & Negus BAC 1-11-500 in 1:400 please !
__________________
Main collections: Lufthansa, KLM, Martinair, Transavia, Pan Am, Delta. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
If you get the new Fokker model, please post pictures! Very curious about those lovely old Fokkers. A firma named Artitec ( normaly they produce trains and boats) are going to make some old Fokkers in HO scale, 1:87
Will do.
Artitec, didn't know them. Interesting. Hope they venture into 1:200 as well. I'll be watching them
I could have sworn I read something around the time the retro livery 737-800 got resprayed into standard livery that it was partly because there were supposed to be 'new' retros in the pipeline for the 2019 anniversary ?
Perhaps work is underway for an October reveal ? Who knows, but like others here, I'd love to see something done.
Very nice one Maarlandair! Expect to receive her next week, looks great in the old colors! And +1 for the 240
__________________
Main collections: Lufthansa, KLM, Martinair, Transavia, Pan Am, Delta. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gold Leader
Air France will be the Doom or say ending of KLM, they have ruined so much already KLM should of never joined an alliance with them it was a bad plan form the start...
B777's aren't as ideal as B747-400's are they can't perform well with short runways as where the B747 actually can, there are no combi versions of the B777 possible the airframe is too weak to support such a design, many disadvantages compared to the B747. it's only cheaper so yea that seems to be the greater importance just an other failure by man kind that is all i see here.
Given my nick it will be a clear thing that I am also missing the old days where KLM was our 'blue pride'. The image of a blue 'queen of the sky', taking off from Schiphol... beautiful.
But back with our feet on the ground again: KLM was close to bankruptcy in 2003 and no strong partner was interested in rescuing the troubled airline. An early merge with SAS and SABENA was one the most realistic options. One that never materialized because of the bankruptcy of the latter in 2001.
The merger with a strong partner like AF brought many benefits and much of the success of today's KLM is due to the fact that it was dissolved in 'Air France-KLM S.A.' in 2003. We tend to forget that KLM AND AF no longer exists by the way. Those are just brand names, even though they operate under separate AOC's (making the '100 year' statement legally correct). What we are looking at is a new company, founded 5 May 2004, incorporated under French law (flight ops under Dutch AOC results under Dutch law). We are simply not able "to get rid" of anyone. And please, we don't want to as well! We would go the same way as SABENA, given the small home marked. The Belgian beauty would have turned 100 years old last march and is greatly missed.
And as far as the 747 goes: it burns 3000 ton fuel per hour more than a 777 with the same payload. You don't have to be an economist to do the math on that simple figure. A 777 is, roughly said, 20% cheeper to operate. Given the margin on air transport and the constant fluctuation on the fuel marked, companies with less fuel burn have the future.
I do love old aircraft a lot! So my hobby is to build and collect them and put them in a showcase. But commercial aviation is about making money and only about money in a very competitive world were even the figure '100 years' give no guarantees at all for for a bright blue future.
Nice post VJ.
I guess the difficulty with this debate is that partly it is an emotional one, guided by "the good old days" but reality in aviation is often a different one.
As much as I want to see KLM to go at it alone (and maybe the AF colleagues feel the same way for AF), its not a realistic proposition to do so for either of them. A recoqnition of each others strenghts and a efficient working relationship should be the goal to make it work in today's industry.
Thats it Maarlandair: sentiment versus ratio. And looking at cold figures shows a creepy truth:
may 2018: market value of major European airlines (in billion euros)
AF-KLM as a group is relatively small in value. If you break that up, both companies will be wiped off the monopoly board by Rynair or Easyjet seeking for slots that, through the stop on the growth of Schiphol, are increasing in value.
But your statement "A recoqnition of each others strenghts and a efficient working relationship" is the key to the future. Look at the striking succes of Transavia, both in the Netherlands and in France we see the real strength of the merge. It is happening at the low-cost side and not on the top (and certainly not in air cargo). Ryanair is slowly lossing that battle. Not financially (as you can see from the figures) but morally. They start more and more to show their real ugly face and the general public starts to notice. Therefore I only can hope that the Dutch and French unions realize that upcomming strikes will only weaken things. The way forward is together, especially within the group. As said before: If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.
There were three conversion programmes between 1955 and 1967, which involved kits provided by Convair for engine updates. KLM was an early adaptor in 1955 and/or 1956.
Very nice posts VJ and absolutely true. We all love the 747 but she has been surpassed by the new twins. Just the way it is.
__________________
Main collections: Lufthansa, KLM, Martinair, Transavia, Pan Am, Delta. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Thats it Maarlandair: sentiment versus ratio. And looking at cold figures shows a creepy truth:
may 2018: market value of major European airlines (in billion euros)
AF-KLM as a group is relatively small in value. If you break that up, both companies will be wiped off the monopoly board by Rynair or Easyjet seeking for slots that, through the stop on the growth of Schiphol, are increasing in value.
But your statement "A recoqnition of each others strenghts and a efficient working relationship" is the key to the future. Look at the striking succes of Transavia, both in the Netherlands and in France we see the real strength of the merge. It is happening at the low-cost side and not on the top (and certainly not in air cargo). Ryanair is slowly lossing that battle. Not financially (as you can see from the figures) but morally. They start more and more to show their real ugly face and the general public starts to notice. Therefore I only can hope that the Dutch and French unions realize that upcomming strikes will only weaken things. The way forward is together, especially within the group. As said before: If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.
cheers VJ
I agree.
I also hope for a more realistic fare structure.
If we are looking at alternatives for short haul travel (Amsterdam - Paris by train for instance), we should also "avoid" fares of € 9,95 one way for a trip between Amsterdam and Barcelona.
9Likes
Re: KLM 100 years
Your Privacy Choices
