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Old 04-10-2019, 05:42 AM   #1
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Default Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

So, I recently purchased a rare bird on greedBay under the assumption that what I was buying was indeed Brand New as the seller had listed it as.

Long story short, she arrived at my door yesterday after about three weeks or so, taking the scenic slow boat. As I was gently using my exacto knife to get through the brown packing tape surrounding the box, it occurred to me that the shipping box was, in fact, the actual white inner box that InFlight uses for its models. In other words, the slip cover is missing and the white box is covered in packing tape/international customs paperwork/address labels, etc.

AAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Now, the styrofoam packing inside/limited edition card/aircraft, are indeed Brand New as was stated on the listing, but WTF? It took a few hours for me to calm down and collect my thoughts. I just sent InFlight200 a kind and lengthy description of what happened and have asked them if they could reproduce the slip cover and box for me for an additional cost because this model is way out of production. Hopefully their graphics department/production department can supply me with the materials, since all they would need to do is to bring up the original digital file for the artwork and refab the slip cover, and source another empty white box.

If they cannot oblige for any reason (missing original image file/can't print a single piece/yadda yadda), then my next course of action is to contact the seller and arrange for a refund and say good bye to my lovely new addition.

What would you do in my situation? I have OCD when it comes to my collection, so not having the complete package is unacceptable. Especially for the price I paid. I know there are those here who could care less about something as trivial as a slip cover, but to me it's a deal breaker. The only photos that I could find of the box were three small photos which I am posting for you. I'm also posting the box as it arrived.

Upset is an understatement, but there are supposedly 239 more examples around the globe. Maybe another will show up at some point.

Cheers.
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Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!-package01.jpg   Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!-package02.jpg   Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!-package03.jpg   Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!-package04.jpg   Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!-inflight200_thai_dc-10-30_hs-tge.jpg  

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Old 04-10-2019, 06:30 AM   #2
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

Do you collect models or boxes?
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:06 AM   #3
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

A bit stupid taping all over the white inflight box. That would annoy me more than the sleeve missing. Could this have been a "Back Door " sample so no sleeve?
Maybe a collector may oblige with a hi-res scan of the sleeve?
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

There are some back door issues of this sale from what you present Tony as Aviaction has mentioned. Did you read the ebay shop seller's credentials / ranking prior to purchase? This looks like stolen property to me. Your course of action is now via Paypal. Return and get your money back. As for this model / subject, it will come out again with a display stand

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Old 04-10-2019, 08:04 AM   #5
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

As has been stated before, original boxes in good condition are an integral part of the model, especially in 1/200 scale, and this buyer paid a premium for this model, and a major part was missing.

"Do you collect models or boxes" misses the point entirely, and this model has a significant loss of value due to the missing outer sleeve. If the manufacturer can provide you a sleeve, the model is a keeper, otherwise, I would surely return it for full refund (or die trying...).

Good luck - your concerns are legitimate, Doug
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:22 AM   #6
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

I'm of two minds about this. Obviously, the outer sleeve and box are important, but are not the "be all, end all" to me that they are to some collectors. I don't display my boxes, they are in an enormous, albeit tidy, pile in the corner of our basement storage room. I don't look at them, nor really think about them at all. When it comes time to dispose of my collection, then they will become a factor in the price each model attains. If the OP paid a premium for his model, and expected it to come with perfect packaging, and if this is vitally important to him, then he should return the model for a full refund (or work out a mutually agreeable compromise with the seller). As for the "just wait and the model will be re-released one day", I'm not a huge fan of that view. The OP could be waiting a long time (or not), and he has a perfect, long awaited model in hand. If I was the OP, I would display my model proudly and enjoy it, and not worry about the issue of packaging. But each collector is different. Its ultimately up to him to weigh how important a cardboard sleeve is to him.
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:53 AM   #7
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

I can certainly see where the OP is coming from. I have a small collection of mint 1/200 diecast airliners, a few of which have no boxes of any kind. They display perfectly, the resale value of them is not important to me.

Personally I’d keep the model. However, if I had the same collecting criteria as the OP, I think I’d return it for a refund if that’s possible. We all collect differently, it’s what makes our hobby so interesting.

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Old 04-10-2019, 09:28 AM   #8
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

Over the years I have bought quite A few models that have been in mint
condition, that have not had the right boxes, or like yours have arrived with out the sleeve, I personally am only concerned about the models as this is what my pride & joy is about, I have kept the boxes witch I find a pain in the rear to keep and store, as I appreciate would increase the value if I were to sell them, but in my case I have no intention of ever doing that, I would like my Grandson's to have the collection when I go, what they do with it is then up to them, sell or keep, another way of looking at it, is the collection for investment, witch models
will decrease in value when they are re released, or enjoy the hobby and not worry about its value.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:59 AM   #9
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

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Originally Posted by DC-10_Tony View Post
...What would you do in my situation? I have OCD when it comes to my collection, so not having the complete package is unacceptable. Especially for the price I paid. I know there are those here who could care less about something as trivial as a slip cover, but to me it's a deal breaker. ..

You already made up your mind on the issue, so what is exactly your point and reason for starting the thread? I am confused.
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:15 AM   #10
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

Thank you all for the varied view points. This is what I needed to hear. I wrote my OP under a bit of duress and needed cool heads to weigh the pros and cons. Thank you to those who believe my disappointment is valid. And to the question, 'Do you collect boxes?' , the answer is an unequivocal 'Yes.' That is part of the fun of collecting for me. I come from an artist background, so aesthetics is a large part of my collecting criteria. As you can see from the images I found of what the cover should look like, it is a beautiful full color piece of artwork, not the older style design that was pretty much a white cover with the image of the model and a logo.

I have made the decision to keep the model, since yes, that is the main reason for collecting. I will need to work out a suitable compromise with the seller about the monetary issue, or it's off to the eBay overlords.

Thank you all again for your insight and experience in this matter. I learned something new from this thread. I never knew about the back door items before.

Cheers.

P.S., if anyone is interested in the seller's profile name, give me a P.M. I omitted his/her info for privacy.

Oh, and one last thing: if anyone has this model with the slip cover, if there is a way that you can have it professionally scanned at a graphics company or perhaps a local Library that has a flatbed scanner, could you scan all sides for me and email me the digital files? I would need the quality to be full color and at least 300dpi. I could then piece the images together into one full image and then try to find a place that could make a slip cover. Since this model is out of production, I don't foresee any problems about duplication. Thanks all.
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:39 AM   #11
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

Seller is easily identified on ebay through a search of sold 1/200 THAI DC-10 models.

If it is any comfort, I own dozens of white box models without the the outer sleeve. I personally dont think it plays much into the resale down the road especially if disclosed to the buyer that there is no sleeve. If it is rare and they want the model bad enough they will buy it.
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

DC-10_Tony - keep us posted as to how your sleeve recreation goes. I have often considered trying to scan damaged boxes and making new ones, but there are many considerations. Photoshop can easily handle the graphics, but then there's the proper paper stock on which to print the project. Yeah, I'm a box freak, and will always argue their importance. Funny, the models themselves often suffer from age with blotching polished finishes and even zinc rot, too, and as yet, there is no way to fix that. Keep 'em flying, or stored away in those attractive boxes... Doug
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Old 04-10-2019, 12:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

Thanks all. I have contacted the seller and am awaiting his response and/or partial refund.

Yes, there is much to consider when trying to duplicate something like a slip cover. Paper stock, color correction, clarity, etc. I feel this might be a fruitless effort, but at least it's something to try...

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Old 04-10-2019, 01:09 PM   #14
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

Seeing as the white box is covered in shipping tape and labels, I wonder if there is a way to get a new blank white box from IF? It would be nice if you could. Or maybe someone on here could help you in that regard.
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:19 PM   #15
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

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Seller is easily identified on ebay through a search of sold 1/200 THAI DC-10 models.

Indeed it is. Seller is from Japan, and the box/model here from OP is from Japan. The listing pictures clearly show that outer sleeve is missing. So IMO item is 'as described', and I do not see any recourse for partial refund. OP should have inquired about clearly missing sleeve, if that is such a 'deal breaker' to OP, as evidenced in photos, before pulling the trigger.
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

I would be annoyed by this, but not to the point of returning the model (at least not for a long-sought after, out-of-production one). Seems like you've reached this decision as well.

Quote:
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I personally dont think it plays much into the resale down the road especially if disclosed to the buyer that there is no sleeve. If it is rare and they want the model bad enough they will buy it.
Agree with crownvic: if there's a model I want, even without a box, I'll buy it. I also just sold a Phoenix Cathay 777-200 in a plain box (disclosed as such), and got a nice premium for it. So I don't think perfect boxes contribute to the value as much as some people think. It's more about the rarity of the plane.
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:38 PM   #17
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Indeed it is. Seller is from Japan, and the box/model here from OP is from Japan. The listing pictures clearly show that outer sleeve is missing. So IMO item is 'as described', and I do not see any recourse for partial refund. OP should have inquired about clearly missing sleeve, if that is such a 'deal breaker' to OP, as evidenced in photos, before pulling the trigger.
And yeah, if it's shown in the pictures that way, I think it's definitely an overreaction to complain about receiving it the way it was shown. You can make an argument that it should be listed as 'Used' rather than 'New' but frankly I don't pay any attention to that on a listing. The photos will tell the story. Same situation with Hangar Club models without the card. If it's not shown in the photos, I'll ask the seller before purchasing, and make my decision to purchase accordingly.
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:53 PM   #18
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

Tony, look at it this way : " Its a RARE model!"....:-)
Keep it. If it were one of someone we know box design, that someone would send you the box cover for free, as that someone has a few here under the bed. But this one was before that someones time. Model is intact? No broken gears, wings, engines, tail...keep it. Theres a lot more going on in this crazy world and far far more serious. Keep it. Shes a beauty.
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Old 04-10-2019, 02:08 PM   #19
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Here below one pic from the sold ebay listing.
Again, if sleeve is so important, why OP not inquire with seller before buying, as sleeve is so obviously absent in pix?

Furthermore, OP complain about 'slow boat scenic" shipping, looks like seller offered FREE SHIPPING, and inside of 3 weeks shipping from Asia to US is reasonable and normal. Sigh!
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Old 04-10-2019, 02:39 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by ALITALIA AZ610 View Post
Here below one pic from the sold ebay listing.
Again, if sleeve is so important, why OP not inquire with seller before buying, as sleeve is so obviously absent in pix?

Furthermore, OP complain about 'slow boat scenic" shipping, looks like seller offered FREE SHIPPING, and inside of 3 weeks shipping from Asia to US is reasonable and normal. Sigh!
The shipping didn't seem to be a real concern of the original post, what is a concern, and is absolutely reasonable, is when an item is described as "new" the expectation is it arrive as "new", as in unused, in original packaging. If being described as new, with caveats, like "new back door model in generic white box no sleeve" it seems it would be incumbent on the seller to describe accurately what "new" means in the particular case. I see where the poster has concerns.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:03 PM   #21
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The shipping didn't seem to be a real concern of the original post, what is a concern, and is absolutely reasonable, is when an item is described as "new" the expectation is it arrive as "new", as in unused, in original packaging. If being described as new, with caveats, like "new back door model in generic white box no sleeve" it seems it would be incumbent on the seller to describe accurately what "new" means in the particular case. I see where the poster has concerns.

U are correct in an ideal world, but u missed the point. If i was a buyer that considers missing sleeves to be "dealer-breakers", I would immediately shoot an email to seller requesting clarification as it is clearly missing in pictures of what seems otherwise a new model. After all the seller, who has 100% +ve feedback, doesn't seem to hide the fact that sleeve is missing as clearly evidenced by the 3 pictures that are provided. A little bit of xtra leg work would have solved this "issue".
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:05 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALITALIA AZ610 View Post
Here below one pic from the sold ebay listing.
Again, if sleeve is so important, why OP not inquire with seller before buying, as sleeve is so obviously absent in pix?

Furthermore, OP complain about 'slow boat scenic" shipping, looks like seller offered FREE SHIPPING, and inside of 3 weeks shipping from Asia to US is reasonable and normal. Sigh!
What you see is what you get. If not satisfied just send it back.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:26 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cazadores View Post
The shipping didn't seem to be a real concern of the original post, what is a concern, and is absolutely reasonable, is when an item is described as "new" the expectation is it arrive as "new", as in unused, in original packaging. If being described as new, with caveats, like "new back door model in generic white box no sleeve" it seems it would be incumbent on the seller to describe accurately what "new" means in the particular case. I see where the poster has concerns.

U are correct in an ideal world, but u missed the point. If i was a buyer that considers missing sleeves to be "dealer-breakers", I would immediately shoot an email to seller requesting clarification as it is clearly missing in pictures of what seems otherwise a new model. After all the seller, who has 100% +ve feedback, doesn't seem to hide the fact that sleeve is missing as clearly evidenced by the 3 pictures that are provided. A little bit of xtra leg work would have solved this "issue".
Yeah, I dont think I missed the point, I just disagree, which is fine. Mark something new, and I'm going to assume it is unused, in it's original packaging. Otherwise describe it, and I'll decide if it is an issue.. I dont care what seller rating they have. If it is marked as "new" I dont need to clarify it with the seller, it is "new", unused, intact, as it shipped from the factory, in it's original packaging, "new".

You would be a satisfied customer, in this case I wouldn't. Would it upset me like the op? Nah, his money, his issue, hopefully it is resolved to his satisfaction.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:30 PM   #24
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For me, the issue would not be the fact it didn't have the decorative outer sleeve. It would be the fact it wasn't double boxed for shipping and instead the seller merely applied tape to the edges of and applied shipping labels to the white box and sent it on its way. To me, that's unacceptable, especially given the distance the model had to travel and the length of time it spent in transit.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:07 PM   #25
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For me, the issue would not be the fact it didn't have the decorative outer sleeve. It would be the fact it wasn't double boxed for shipping and instead the seller merely applied tape to the edges of and applied shipping labels to the white box and sent it on its way. To me, that's unacceptable, especially given the distance the model had to travel and the length of time it spent in transit.
I second this. The packaging (or lack of it) is outrageous for a model at this price. Would justify a bad rating alone for that.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:10 PM   #26
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

I would keep it, if I really wanted to add the model to my collection but if you really want the model to be 100% with all the packaging as you clearly are then I can imagine your worries. Hope you get this sorted out.
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:54 PM   #27
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I second this. The packaging (or lack of it) is outrageous for a model at this price. Would justify a bad rating alone for that.

Right? I'm surprised it didn't arrive with some damage to the model. He's lucky!
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:59 PM   #28
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I second this. The packaging (or lack of it) is outrageous for a model at this price. Would justify a bad rating alone for that.
I third this. I had a similar experience from a big-time seller on eBay in China. When I got my model, he had just wrapped brown paper around the model (and sleeve) and taped it up, no shipping box, no padding. Of course the box was dropped very hard somewhere enroute and one corner was badly dented, enough that the model inside was damaged. I am never going to buy from that seller again.
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:30 PM   #29
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To OP, I get it and used to be very picky about the planes and boxes. I have become a little less so over the years, but this is unacceptable. The seller was trying to save you on shipping cost (maybe), but I would rather pay a little extra to get a model and its original box and sleeve placed in a bigger box with some packaging.

I have received one sopping wet from the UK and have seen pics of Amazon just slapping a shipping label on the outside of the original makers box! Also received them smelling light mold, smoke and with remnants of food on them.

I do collect boxes also and if I go to sell a plane I can expect to get more from most collectors if the box is in good condition. As an example I sold a 1985 Nike Air Jordan Box in great condition (box only) for $250 to a huge Jordan fan in Chicago. So boxes do matter!

Don at Jetstreams has provided sleeves for sold out models in the past...good luck now though with Jodi supposedly running things!

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Old 04-10-2019, 08:17 PM   #30
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To OP, I get it and used to be very picky about the planes and boxes. I have become a little less so over the years, but this is unacceptable. The seller was trying to save you on shipping cost (maybe), but I would rather pay a little extra to get a model and its original box and sleeve placed in a bigger box with some packaging.

I have received one sopping wet from the UK and have seen pics of Amazon just slapping a shipping label on the outside of the original makers box! Also received them smelling light mold, smoke and with remnants of food on them.

I do collect boxes also and if I go to sell a plane I can expect to get more from most collectors if the box is in good condition. As an example I sold a 1985 Nike Air Jordan Box in great condition (box only) for $250 to a huge Jordan fan in Chicago. So boxes do matter!

Don at Jetstreams has provided sleeves for sold out models in the past...good luck now though with Jodi supposedly running things!
A few years back, I was tossing my kids around having some while playing with them. The wifey thought I was being too rough with them, and complained I always handle my model boxes with much more care and go to great lengths in order not to scratch/dent/etc. the model boxes! To refresh my memory is Jodi the daughter of Don? If so, I remember chatting with her at the LAX AI Show a few years back. Cheers! T7
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:51 PM   #31
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Wow! Thank you all for the great debate this has become. Maybe this is a great thread for those new to the hobby, or to be aware of the occasional pitfalls of doing business with sellers who are not fully truthful.

When I purchased this model, this same seller had two of them prior. Mine, and another one marked as "used" and indeed was listed as such. For the record, the used one sold for more than I paid. The screen capture provided above does not reflect what I paid. I made an offer behind the scenes for much less and the seller accepted. Regardless, I am happy to announce that I was given a substantial partial refund and am a proud owner of a rare Thai DC-10-30.

About getting a new replacement box, I have already contacted InFlight, but haven't received a response yet. Perhaps someone here has a spare?? Feel free to contact me if you do. I'd be happy to make a deal!

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Old 04-11-2019, 11:31 AM   #32
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T7 4ever, yes that is her!
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:15 AM   #33
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Well, still no word from InFlight, so I sent my request again via their Facebook page. This time I was able to provide photos. Hopefully I'll at least get some sort of response...

Anyway, after about an hour I was able to slowly pull off the packing tape and shipping labels. Here's the result. As expected, the glue from the tape took with it the top layer leaving the soft fibers exposed underneath. Full tearing was minimal as you can see by the brown patches where the white fibers completely tore off. Meh, I guess it's as good as it's gonna get.

I still hope someone here finds this thread and is able to scan their slip cover for me in high resolution. No flash photography because that leaves horrible glare from the flash, rendering it useless. Cheers.

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Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!-package05.jpg   Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!-package06.jpg   Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!-package07.jpg  
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:05 AM   #34
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Hey Tony, I know ARD in London have a big collection of spare sleeves they sell for £1 each at fairs. Might be worth getting in touch and seeing if they have one for your model?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:43 PM   #35
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Default Re: Advice Please - What Should I Do???? UGH!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC-10_Tony View Post
Wow! Thank you all for the great debate this has become. Maybe this is a great thread for those new to the hobby, or to be aware of the occasional pitfalls of doing business with sellers who are not fully truthful.

When I purchased this model, this same seller had two of them prior. Mine, and another one marked as "used" and indeed was listed as such. For the record, the used one sold for more than I paid. The screen capture provided above does not reflect what I paid. I made an offer behind the scenes for much less and the seller accepted. Regardless, I am happy to announce that I was given a substantial partial refund and am a proud owner of a rare Thai DC-10-30.

About getting a new replacement box, I have already contacted InFlight, but haven't received a response yet. Perhaps someone here has a spare?? Feel free to contact me if you do. I'd be happy to make a deal!

Good to hear you got some redress. The description should never have said new and the missing sleeve also mentioned... and finally, they should have wrapped the entire box in brown paper and then stuck the shipping documents on that. Or better still, put it in another box with packing material.

I am surprised the problem is from a Japanese seller. As I understand, collectables as a hobby is very big in Japan and collectors there can be picky right down to the condition of the box.
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:23 PM   #36
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Hey Tony, I know ARD in London have a big collection of spare sleeves they sell for £1 each at fairs. Might be worth getting in touch and seeing if they have one for your model?
Really?! Thanks for the info. I will definitely contact them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle_Flyer View Post
Good to hear you got some redress. The description should never have said new and the missing sleeve also mentioned... and finally, they should have wrapped the entire box in brown paper and then stuck the shipping documents on that. Or better still, put it in another box with packing material.

I am surprised the problem is from a Japanese seller. As I understand, collectables as a hobby is very big in Japan and collectors there can be picky right down to the condition of the box.
Thanks. Yeah, you are right. Everything I've ever bought from Japan has always arrived as protected as possible. Especially my Macross collection. Others here have made me aware of "back door" items which I've never heard of before, so that's what I believe is the case here. Lesson learned.

Cheers.
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