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Old 04-03-2018, 08:06 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Paint rash and bubbling

Hi guys, this is my first post and I am about to get into the hobby of collecting 1/200 scale aircraft. I am thinking about getting a JC Wings Cathay Pacific Boeing 777-300ER B-KQJ as my first model. However, the seller has informed me that the model has paint rash and bubbling. Is the model I am getting good and is there a way to remove paint rash and bubbling? Thanks for reading and replying

Last edited by etramonkey; 04-03-2018 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

Paint bubbling => this is MAYBE zinc rot. In other words: this model is completely lost IF it is zinc rot. Do you have a picture ? Otherwise search on this forum after "zinc rot" or "zinc pest" ...
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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The bottom of the model has some bubbles. Should I be worried and avoid this model?
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Paint rash and bubbling-img-20180329-wa0025_1522759801957.jpg  
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:54 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

Hm, looks good, I see no cracks (that is important). Maybe you can wait till other members give their opinion ?
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

Ok thanks for your quick reply!
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

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Originally Posted by etramonkey View Post
The bottom of the model has some bubbles. Should I be worried and avoid this model?
It does look like the start of zinc rot. If you are lucky, it is very localized, but I doubt it. That kind of bubbling is usually an indication of a deeper problem.

I would avoid the model.
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:08 AM   #7 (permalink)
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It does look like the start of zinc rot. If you are lucky, it is very localized, but I doubt it. That kind of bubbling is usually an indication of a deeper problem.

I would avoid the model.
Can this problem be solved as I really want this model and it is quite rare. I cannot find it anywhere on eBay and there is only this model listed for sale on my country's website for selling stuff
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:28 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

Zinc rot is the disintegration of the metal under the paint caused by incomplete mixing of the various alloys used to make the model. Since it is the metal under the paint causing the bubbling, there really is no fix because you don't know how much of the metal underneath is involved.

You could take a chance that the problem is localized and buy the model, but as a minimum expect the paint to eventually flake of the areas with the bubbles. In worse (more likely) cases, you wil be left with powdery holes in the areas where the bubbles are on the model. My guess is the zinc rot is the reason the model is for sale in the first place.
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:32 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Zinc rot is the disintegration of the metal under the paint caused by incomplete mixing of the various alloys used to make the model. Since it is the metal under the paint causing the bubbling, there really is no fix because you don't know how much of the metal underneath is involved.

You could take a chance that the problem is localized and buy the model, but as a minimum expect the paint to eventually flake of the areas with the bubbles. In worse (more likely) cases, you wil be left with powdery holes in the areas where the bubbles are on the model. My guess is the zinc rot is the reason the model is for sale in the first place.
And judging from the photo, when do you think the paint will start to flake off?

Last edited by etramonkey; 04-03-2018 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Wrong spelling
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

Judging from the pic, I would think it would follow a horizontal line towards the wing. If you look closely you will see it looks like the bubbling is along the place where the 2 halves of the mold separated when the model was made. I would expect the damage to continue along that line.

Remember, it isn't just the paint that will flake. The metal underneath will actually disintegrate, leaving powdery holes in the model too.
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:46 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Judging from the pic, I would think it would follow a horizontal line towards the wing. If you look closely you will see it looks like the bubbling is along the place where the 2 halves of the mold separated when the model was made. I would expect the damage to continue along that line.

Remember, it isn't just the paint that will flake. The metal underneath will actually disintegrate, leaving powdery holes in the model too.
However, the other side of the plane does not have the bubbling. So can Zinc rot occur on half the plane?
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:48 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

Forget the mold joint. That is usually along the top and bottom center line, but the damage should continue along this same line as the existing bubbles. The real problem is you don't know how deep below the surface the problem goes. And yes, zinc rot can occur anywhere on a model that the alloys weren't mixed properly.
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:50 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

I contacted the seller and he said that JC Wings do not have this problem. Is this true? He also states that Zinc rot is 'very obvious' and that the manufacturer did not do the model properly
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:59 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

I had an Aviation200 Britannia 757 made for AV200 by the JCW factory that had zinc rot on the left wing. It turns out that was a common problem with that model. Short answer is zinc rot can occur in any brand. All the zinc rot I've ever seen starts out looking EXACTLY like the picture above, and unless you actually pierce/remove one of the bubbles to find out what is underneath, you don't really know.
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Old 04-03-2018, 10:08 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

I am a 1/400 guy and not really into 1/200, BUT zinc rot is zinc rot and knows no scale. If the seller is willing to sell for half price, you might consider it, but otherwise, you will watch what is most likely zinc rot as it progresses with this model. I would pass it up, Doug
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Old 04-03-2018, 10:22 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

Ok thanks for all the replies
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

You may regret buying this model later on down the road, especially when another nicer model comes up for sale. I would hold out.

I checked Dai Kong and they appear to have this model, according to their website. You should try getting in contact with Raymond there to see if he has it in stock. He is located in Malaysia.

Here's a link: http://www.dai-kong.com/Airplanes%20...32/XX2632.html
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Old 04-03-2018, 02:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

Unless you're like me and can profit off of zinc rot, stay away!

This is what I did (1:400):

https://www.yesterdaysairlines.com/a...ster-varig-254

Fortunately, this came with an included blank B731, and the seller said to try to switch out the wings, but eventually I decided on keeping both the way they came. Now I can make a custom without feeling guilty. Anyways, it was a reasonable price even if it just had the B731 ($25)

I would be very pissed if my 1:200 began to crumble. 2-3x the price of 400 scale!

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Old 04-03-2018, 06:39 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by billville View Post
You may regret buying this model later on down the road, especially when another nicer model comes up for sale. I would hold out.

I checked Dai Kong and they appear to have this model, according to their website. You should try getting in contact with Raymond there to see if he has it in stock. He is located in Malaysia.

Here's a link: Dai Kong
Thanks for the suggestion but has anybody bought models from this website? Is it reliable?

Last edited by etramonkey; 04-03-2018 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:53 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by etramonkey View Post
Thanks for the suggestion but has anybody bought models from this website? Is it reliable?
I have bought from him many times, and he is very reliable. His shipping is by far one of the fastest I've dealt with, as it never takes more than 4 days to arrive here in the US. Maybe others on here can confirm this as well?

He is my go to for hard to find and rare models that are sold out everywhere else. He is a member on here as well!
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:57 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

I've purchased from him before, too. Very reliable.
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

So, here's my thoughts:

Sure, it could be zinc rot and it might also just be some bubbles from a bad paint application. Keep in mind, if this is potentially going to be your first model, that every model is inevitably going to have something minor wrong with it. If you stare at something long enough and more importantly, take a picture and blow up the size of the actual area 100x, then you're probably going to find something that you don't like.

Dai Kong, who I also highly recommend, has warned me on two occasions about some very small bubbles somewhere on the models I was buying. I accepted them and nothing has happened. In fact, I've only bought three models from him, and the one model he didn't say anything about actually had a small area where someone had touched it up. I don't blame him for that and never said anything to him about it because it just wasn't worth mentioning and I certainly didn't catch it when I first received it but rather weeks later.

The one model I have that I think does actually have a larger issue is the Gemini 200 Delta Widget 757. Within the past year, I noticed a small paint crack on one of the pylons. Maybe it was there longer than the past year and it just took me a long time to notice it. Either way, I've done nothing to it and it's still fine. Let's assume the worst and that the pylon actually crumbles tomorrow. I won't be happy about it but I bought that model when it was new. I've had it for 9 years. I probably can't find too many other things that I bought 9 years ago that I still have today. So, for the $85 or whatever I paid for it, I got my money out of it.

If you can live with it and accept that you'll likely get years out of it then buy it. If you're looking for a perfect model then this obviously isn't it but then again, the overwhelming majority of models won't be and you might want to consider a different hobby to get into.
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Old 04-03-2018, 07:18 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

Quote:
Originally Posted by etramonkey View Post
Thanks for the suggestion but has anybody bought models from this website? Is it reliable?
Yes! I'm in the U.S. and I buy from Dai Kong often....I usually private message him here on the board, pay via PayPal and the shipment usually arrives within 4 days to the US from Malaysia! Good service!!
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:11 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Just adding my endorsement for Raymond and Dai Kong. He’s incredibly responsive to inquiries and his models are perfect and, like many have said, travel at light speed from Malaysia. He’s great. He did tell me recently that his website isn’t completely up to date, so just send him a message if you’re looking for something.
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Old 04-03-2018, 08:24 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

Raymond at Dai Kong is as good as it gets. Very friendly,great selection. Whenever a member is looking for a model,I check with Raymond first.
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Old 04-04-2018, 03:44 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Ok thanks guys! I will probably purschase from Dai Kong sometime this year!
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Old 04-04-2018, 06:25 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Raymond at Dai Kong is as good as it gets. Very friendly,great selection. Whenever a member is looking for a model,I check with Raymond first.
I agree David 100% no problem at all
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Old 04-05-2018, 11:50 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

I'm not convinced this is zinc Rot. The aforementioned problem with the AV200 757 wings bubbling is a common problem with that model because of the paint application, nothing to do with the metal. I can prove this because I stripped wings that had the paint bubbling and saw the flawless metal part underneath.. I then repainted it and added detailed decals so it looked close enough to the original. I believe that this is just a paint issue, yes it could get worse, yes it could flake off, but to be honest, I doubt it. Just be careful with handling and keep it on display somewhere that isn't too humid. Also, you could get a rather nice discount on the model that may pay off in the long run.
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Old 04-09-2018, 09:42 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Hi all, these are a few pictures that I received from another seller. Could you all please help me to confirm whether this is Zinc rot or just paint bubbling that will not destroy the model?
Attached Thumbnails
Paint rash and bubbling-o_1523347312760.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-n_1523347331379.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-m_1523347347980.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-l_1523347365372.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-k_1523347378912.jpg  

Paint rash and bubbling-j_1523347395352.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-i_1523347420749.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-h_1523347435613.jpg  

Last edited by etramonkey; 04-10-2018 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 04-09-2018, 09:50 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Some more photos:
Attached Thumbnails
Paint rash and bubbling-9_1523347590992.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-8_1523347606528.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-15_1523347619722.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-14_1523347636422.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-13_1523347650614.jpg  

Paint rash and bubbling-12_1523347665770.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-11_1523347681862.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-10_1523347701909.jpg  

Last edited by etramonkey; 04-10-2018 at 04:10 AM.
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Old 04-09-2018, 09:50 AM   #31 (permalink)
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PS: I do not own the pictures
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Old 04-09-2018, 10:20 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etramonkey View Post
PS: I do not own the pictures
After seeing the images above, I share the same opinion as Istari here. I doubt those bubbles are from zinc rot. I've seen that over many years and experience has told me that more often than not, it has to do with either poor paint prep underneath, or possibly excess humidity.

It would be helpful if any other collectors who have this model could weigh in with the state of theirs. Bad stuff often happens in batches.

Diecast stuff can be weird. I have a model that showed an isolated area underneath with very small-sized bubbles that I KNOW weren't there before. (Some super hi-res images from the past confirmed that) I've watched that model now for 2 years, and NOTHING at all has happened. No additional, no signs of bubbling elsewhere on the model and no cracks (which almost guarantee a zinc rot model). I also have a Hogan Concorde with a couple of bubbles that look identical to yours except a bit smaller. I've had the model for at least eight years, with no additional issues (and I DO examine them under a glass).

So you can take a chance if you're feeling brave. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it -- BUT if this STILL concerns you, you should check-in with Raymond at Dai Kong. He's a forum member here and as solid as they come. And if you don't want to take our word for it, go to 'Member List' in the top navigation bar, click 'Search', type in 'Dai Kong' (no quotes) and read what others here have said about him. That should put your mind at ease.

Oh . . . and that is a stunning model, by the way!
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Old 04-09-2018, 10:44 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Can anyone help me to verify? Please
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:30 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Anybody? Please help me
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Old 04-10-2018, 11:59 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by etramonkey View Post
Can anyone help me to verify? Please
I think this is about as far as anyone can go. Even with the model in hand, it is near impossible to determine whether or not that model has zinc rot. Only destructive testing (or time) could confirm one way or another.

Sorry. Time to decide. Accept or decline.
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:25 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

Or you could avoid all of these questions and doubts, and just buy it new.
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:40 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Istari View Post
I'm not convinced this is zinc Rot. The aforementioned problem with the AV200 757 wings bubbling is a common problem with that model because of the paint application, nothing to do with the metal. I can prove this because I stripped wings that had the paint bubbling and saw the flawless metal part underneath.. I then repainted it and added detailed decals so it looked close enough to the original. I believe that this is just a paint issue, yes it could get worse, yes it could flake off, but to be honest, I doubt it. Just be careful with handling and keep it on display somewhere that isn't too humid. Also, you could get a rather nice discount on the model that may pay off in the long run.
You're lucky. My 757 had pits in the metal under the paint containing a powdery substance. I scraped the paint off the bubbles once I realized the model was virtually worthless (wish I took some pics now) and found the pits and metal 'powder'. Glad yours was fixable, but that wasn't the case with many.
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:26 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Hi there,

I have a copy of this model also. I just dusted it off and it appears to have the same issues. The issue with the nose I think is just a printing issue, the printing for the lower chatline appears to have been done as 2 parts, an upper and a lower, you can see the overlap and I think it has just gone a little funny around the nose where the the fuselage begins to curve. I wouldn't worry about that.

My copy also has those tiny bubbles on the wings, upon review of medium res photo's about 3 years old, some of the larger bubbles are just visible in the photos and don't appear to have changed.

I do recall the paint appeared to have speckles on it when I got it, but I do believe it has indeed progressed a little since then. However after 3 years though it really hasn't changed a huge amount and appears to be limited to just minor speckling, which on such a large model is hard to notice anyway. I highly doubt this will progress to the classical full blown zinc rot where the paint cracks off and the model crumbles.

The problem is that it appears that most/if not all of the copies of this model will likely have the same problem to some extent, so even if you get a 'new' one, there is no guarantee whatsoever that it will not have this problem, in fact it likely will

Hope this helps
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:03 AM   #39 (permalink)
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This doesn't appear to be zinc rot. I have been collecting a long time and have models 15 plus years old with paint bubbles such as this that were there the day I purchased them with no progression. Most likely just poor surface prep prior to paint application.
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:11 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Ok thanks
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Old 04-14-2018, 12:39 PM   #41 (permalink)
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It is really hard to tell for sure if the distortions are zinc rot or just poor paint prep. JCW is famous (infamous?) for dust and dirt under the paint, and even finger prints in the paint. Some other brands are too. But when you get down to this level of detail, with close even digital photography, it is hard to tell the exact cause of paint distortions. In the case of the Cathay Pacific 777, it could be either paint bubbles or zinc rot. The difference in opinion shows it could be either. As Upkeep said, the only way to be sure is destructive testing of the bubbles.

It is easy to offer an opinion when you are not the person laying out the money for an expensive model. Ultimately, you get all the information that you can (photographic and opinions, as you have done) but the decision is yours. How will you feel in a few years if the bubbles turn out to be just paint? How about if they turn out to be zinc rot? Either take a chance or not.

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Old 04-14-2018, 08:58 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I think I will go ahead and buy the 2 models
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:34 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

I tend to agree that poor preparation for paint is to blame. I have had a few zinc plagued models,and they did not look like that. I lost my SMA,Federal Express 737 to this. Gemini Alaska Portland Timbers 737.....
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Old 06-30-2018, 12:17 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

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Thanks for the suggestion but has anybody bought models from this website? Is it reliable?
I buy from Raymond all the time and he is fast and reliable.

cheers,

wayne
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Old 07-01-2018, 07:03 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

About a week ago I posted a question about my new InFlight 200 AA 747SP. I'm not sure if it was an issue with the paint or zinc rot, and someone had asked me to post photos. I wasn't able to post photos as I was going out of town for a bit. In the meantime, many of the posts had gone into the Twighlight Zone. I'm now back in town and have photos to post. The issues are on one wing only - upper and lower surfaces. I've emailed the seller (Jetstreams) twice, and no response. Is anyone able to tell me if this is zinc rot or a paint issue that won't get worse over time?


Thank you,
Matthew
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Paint rash and bubbling-img_20180701_181838725_lg.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-img_20180701_182049254_hdr_lg.jpg   Paint rash and bubbling-img_20180701_182026345_hdr_lg.jpg  
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:47 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

Doesn't look like Zinc rot but rather contaminants in the paint. I have been seeing this with quite a few brands lately including AC200. Chinese workers sloppy!!!!
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Old 07-01-2018, 08:57 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

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Doesn't look like Zinc rot but rather contaminants in the paint. I have been seeing this with quite a few brands lately including AC200. Chinese workers sloppy!!!!

OK, thank you for letting me know. Odd that it looks like the paint is bubbling, though. Either way it would have been nice if Jetstreams had responded to my email.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:19 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: Paint rash and bubbling

Well, I have an update on my AA747SP with issues. I'm glad to report that Jetstreams did come through. I emailed them one more time asking them to fix the problem. They responded with an email that they never received a return authorization form from me. I told them that I never received any response whatsoever from them, much less a form of any kind. They sent me a copy of the original email they sent with the form attached. I checked my delete and trash folders, and apparently they did send it, but I never received it. Once we were communicating with each other they very quickly and graciously took care of the issue. Thank you Jetstreams! Thumbs down to Verizon.
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