Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight - DA.C
 

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Old 05-26-2015, 07:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

I understand the frustration of posting pictures of a new model that you love and are proud, of only to have people rip it to shreds with comparisons. But I also understand we all want the best model our money can buy. But with so many people posting pics of models and requesting 'no comparisons', I thought it would be good to have a separate thread for JUST comparisons. If this is not your thing, you don't have to read this thread, but if you like arguing accuracy and who has the best model, HERE YOU GO>

I'll start of with my own thoughts. There is definitely a war going on between rival manufacturers with models of 2 different types: Mainly the 747 and the 777. We are being flooded with multiple choices. So which one is best?

The 747
Personally I think InFlight's 747 reign is over. I think JC Wings is now at the top of the heap with their new mold. The IF mold isn't bad, it is just outdated. Things like wing joints, jeweled landing lights, correct liveries, magnetic gear and articulated main bogies are setting a new standard and aere leaving IF in the dust. Don't get me wrong. I have plenty of IF 747s. I just think they are dated at this point. Still, that won't keep me from getting a livery that I really want, like the Cathay AWC.

The 777-300ER
I think the reverse is true with the JC Wings 777-300ER mold. I think the new InFlight 777-300ER mold sets a new standard and it is JCW that is in the position of catching up. The new IF GE-90-115B1 are the right size and the closest to the real thing of any model available today. I also think the nose and cockpit windows are the best that I have seen. The issue with the nose gear position is supposed to be fixed. The only remaining problems are the engine pylons and window and door printing size. The printing can be easily fixed. If IF wants another winning mold that will set the standard for years like their 747s did, they may want to think about reworking the engine pylons.

I have never thought the nose and cockpit windows on the JCW have looked exactly right. I think JCW has an issue with small cockpit windows and their 777 mold is a good example. The nose looks to squashed in to me too. Their GE-90-115B1 mold is a great first try at an update, but needs to be reworked. I hope the pics posted in Rui's Garuda 777-300ER thread are not the next attempt. I think it shows the value of good reference photographs. The engine pylons have a reasonable shape, but need to get the engine back up where it belongs, level with the leading edge of the wing. The IF 777-300ERs windows may be too high, but the JCW window line is too. The door over the wing is supposed to be a small step onto the wing, not a 4' jump.

I'm not saying there aren't some nice models out there. But I also think everyone has some work to do to better their molds and stay competitive.

I know there will never be a perfect model, but I think the manufacturers can get closer with some work.

Last edited by Charlie Alpha; 05-26-2015 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 05-26-2015, 10:29 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

Ok, over 100 views and no comments. The other time this was tried, a few more responses, but not many. This confirms something that I have always known. Very few people argue just because they like to argue. The discussions on this forum are not esoteric. They are product specific.

I know when you get a new model that you REALLY like, it is really rough to have people on this forum pick it apart. It does not feel good and definitely takes the joy out of a new model if you let it get to you. I know this. Particular if you happen to feel some loyalty to a brand. I've experienced it myself.

It would be nice if everyone would limit their comments to when manufacturers of dealers post pictures of new models, and not individuals who are all happy and proud of a new purchase. But people on this forum do not 'pick nits' in a void. It used to be very simple with oinly a few (3 maybe?) manufacturers making most of the new models and almost never the same liveries or even types of aircraft. But today things are different. All of the 'Big 3' now have sub-brands and all are releasing the same models. Sometimes there are even 4 of the same model to choose from. It can get pretty confusing. One of the important functions of this forum in my opinion is to provide a place to compare and contrast different brands and alternatives.

People on this forum do not 'nit pick' just because they have a need to pick at things. I don't care if it is a forum on guns, football or Startrek. I think people, or maybe just guys are pre-programmed to debate about EVERYTHING. Maybe Americans are worse, or maybe not. Couple this with a desire for information on what model will give them the most model for their 'hobby dollar' and you have the ultimate 'compare and contrast' in almost every thread. It does get out of hand when you throw a few individuals who ALWAYS support a particular brand, and it definitely gets carried too far sometimes. But I think that is the nature of social media today. Like it or not, that is the way it is today.

This forum is about diecast model airplanes. To expect someone who is happy and proud of a new model not to post pics, and not to get their feeling hurt when that model is criticized is unrealistic. To the 'anti nit picking crowd', I think to expect guys to see pictures on this forum and not to compare and argue about which on is best so they can make a better choice is also unrealistic..

In a perfect world, everyone would be complimentary when an individual posts pictures of a model they bought, and reserve the 'nit picking' to times when manufacturers of dealers post pics would be the way things would go.

I do not have any answers. I get upset when people on the forum get their feelings hurt when they post pics of a new model. I really like getting into the 'nuts and bolts' of a new model and hate being called a 'nit picker'. That hurts my feelings.

It just seems as a community we could be cognoscenti and respectful of each other and who is writing the thread.

Last edited by Charlie Alpha; 05-26-2015 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 05-26-2015, 10:35 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

I guess my comments might sway from your intended discussion but my thoughts: I'm a 1/200 747 collector and I personally feel JCW is indeed better (for the purposes of this discussion, I'll leave the plastic models out). It's pure judgement; if the entire collecting world loves Inflight, JFox, etc...that's fine by me. If the models make you happy, that's all that really matters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Alpha View Post
I understand the frustration of posting pictures of a new model that you love and are proud, of only to have people rip it to shreds with comparisons.
If the model is something you like, it really shouldn't matter what people say, especially on the internet (believe it or not, everything you read on the internet is not true). I think it's good that people point out inaccuracies, no matter how insignificant. The reader can decide which flaws are superfluous as all our tolerances vary (one person's major flaw is a no big deal to another). I like to believe there are knowledgeable people here and if they're gone, this forum will be full of useless ad's and popups. I like reading the thoughts and opinions of a new model here so I can make my own decisions.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Alpha View Post
I have plenty of IF 747s. I just think they are dated at this point. Still, that won't keep me from getting a livery that I really want, like the Cathay AWC.
I respectfully disagree with this logic...its sending Inflight a message that they can put out dated models (I do agree with you that they are very dated), but as long as it's a nice livery, you will buy it. Inflight has no incentive to update their 747's if they continue to sell out (or so they claim).

There was once a topic here regarding what is more important: a good livery or a good model. The overwhelming response was both; we really shouldn't pay for bad models with desirable liveries...one could argue that this is stupid and I'll have no new models. I suppose this is true, but I could live with that...money that can be spent on a better model or something else entirely.

One day I hope JCW will make the classic jumbo's because my small display space will not be filled with a sub-standard Inflight product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Alpha View Post
I'm not saying there aren't some nice models out there. But I also think everyone has some work to do to better their molds and stay competitive.
I agree 100%. Some great models out there, but there's always room for improvement.
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Old 05-27-2015, 02:13 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

I personally get what I like the look of (I don't care if half the internet says "that window line is 1mm to high). For me it comes down to what I can actually get in the livery I like. Some of the models I have in my collection have taken a bit of effort to find (and yes might not be 1000% accurate) but hey the fun was in finding it.

99.99% of the people that see my aircraft see them for what they are (and not one has moaned about the *insert your pet hate here*)

My personal preference is Inflight at the moment as I've managed to pick up a few deals off Ebay. Pre order I normally go JC Wings. But have ordered a JFox Malaysia Hibiscus (that's because I got a very good price on it)

Im not a millionaire so price is another factor for me. (id rather go second hand and save some cash)

Ps. I picked up a Jfox Sia Tropical for £15 off gumtree about a week a go...ill take that over the bbox anyday
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Old 05-27-2015, 02:15 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

Have to wait on the 747, as its not as clear to me unless its in my hands. I still think the JCs flight deck and brow area is off, not a deal breaker per se but given the choice I would go with IF200's when both release the same livery and reg.

Also the magnetic gears. Great that JC started using this, giving us the option to display inflight or on the ground. Plus it avoids the potential problem of the gears snapping off in transit. But don't think its secure enough...and hopefully this is something they're working on.

For the wing joint, is it because of the gap on the belly side? I mean JC also has a gap where the wing joins the body, just not as big as IF200 undercarriage area. I've received one a couple of years ago where the model arrived with the undercarriage was detached, along with the wings. Interesting how its put together and perhaps its the limitations of manufacturing when it was first started that its designed that way. I figure JC has the advantage maybe because of new technology/processes that evolved over time? Apparently this new process may be costing a bit more as I've noticed (in the US market) JC's average price increased by $20 to $149 with their new mould compared to the time they were using IF200s ($129). Also noticed IF200's prices came down from $189 to about $159...perhaps moving out of JCs factory helped save on production costs.

Reading people's comments here have been quite educating, informative, but what it all boils down to is buy what you like.

Dondi, how are IF's classic 747s substandard? Seriously, interested in your opinion.

Edit: Apologies to Rui and Dai Kong for snipping their pics, but attached is the nose/flight deck portion of (left) real aircraft, (middle) IF200 EVA Air, and (right) JC Malaysian Hibiscus. IF's nose does look a bit rounder, but JCs also looks off. Plus with the real aircraft the flight deck does go up a bit steeper than JCs, which I think makes theirs look a bit too smooth.
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Old 05-27-2015, 02:48 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

Here is the wing joint. JCs undercarriage does look nicer, but IF's doesn't look bad either. Both have gaps at the joint, but JC's look cleaner I guess. If its the shape of the undercarriage that is debated on, then I can't tell the difference.
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

the difference only affects those who actually have to make a decision... not those who can and do get 'em all. with limited resources, many are down to choosing that one representation of a particular rego/livery. i had that dilemma between if200/jfox and jcw/bbox with two of their recent models, the tropical and the hibiscus. having held both these models and appreciating them for what they are with my naked eye, i'll just state why i went for jcw for both:

tropical
pros: full range of colours; better wing root treatment, correct engines (not really a deal breaker for me but since the experts already pointed this out), more accurate font. and yeah, it was a whole lot cheaper...

cons: brown not dark enough, bad execution where the colours meet around the nose cone (seriously... is it just me who notice the orange moustache?)

hibiscus

pros: sharper detailing, better print job, jewel blings.

cons: seeming aversion to darker colours, not so accurate livery, painted antennas.

i don't think i could make a generic comparison since the wing root issue doesn't affect the hibiscus quite as much as it did the tropical. and in all honesty, i do believe if got the livery more spot on compared to jcw... but they were let down by their poor finishing (the last large hibiscus seems to be reprinted?). and no... i wouldn't have chosen jcw by virtue only of the added bling, that's for sure.


p.s. the magnetic landing gears make little difference to me as i have them displayed in take-off config. they're "display" models... not "toys" for me to push around so the magnetic landing gears suffices in supporting the birds (for now?).
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:35 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

I am really getting fed up with Inflight 747 releases.
They are simply degraded to expensive toys iso collector models.

Dont get me wrong i love the Inflight DC-10's ( with all of its faults)
But the 747 has gone down in quality
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Old 05-27-2015, 04:24 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

i don't know if it fits in here, ... but comparing Inflights 727 and the JC counterpart the JC is definately the better one - regarding THIS fact i STILL cannot understand why JC doesn't re-release ALL (and i mean ALL) previously screwed 727 attempts by IF200.

having in mind that we have two manufacturers minimum doing EVA, China Airlines and Cathay Pacific, KLM .....PHX, IF200 and JCW - what is going on here? i mean i welcome the search for the perfect 77W, but come on....this is getting ridiculous! the manufacturers could at least choose different liveries for the models. maybe one day SMA will come with the REAL perfect mould (remembering their MD11).

DON'T forget the potential of other moulds ! .....721/722, 732/733/734/735
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Old 05-27-2015, 11:21 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

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Originally Posted by European Collector View Post
i don't know if it fits in here, ... but comparing Inflights 727 and the JC counterpart the JC is definately the better one - regarding THIS fact i STILL cannot understand why JC doesn't re-release ALL (and i mean ALL) previously screwed 727 attempts by IF200.

having in mind that we have two manufacturers minimum doing EVA, China Airlines and Cathay Pacific, KLM .....PHX, IF200 and JCW - what is going on here? i mean i welcome the search for the perfect 77W, but come on....this is getting ridiculous! the manufacturers could at least choose different liveries for the models. maybe one day SMA will come with the REAL perfect mould (remembering their MD11).

DON'T forget the potential of other moulds ! .....721/722, 732/733/734/735
Yikes. i just had a scarey thought. If all of the 4 manufactures really did do completely different releases and you wanted them all, there is no way most of us could afford it.

Maybe it is a good thing that all are releasing their versions of the same model. It definitely cuts down on the 'wallet drain' when you only have to buy one.
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Old 05-27-2015, 12:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

All of this copycat releasing to me indicates that the 1:200 scale market is extremely small and with margins that are barely showing a profit. If this was a large market with thousands of collectors, no company would care about their competitor's releases, this only occurs because literally every model sold counts currently. If I were Inflight200, I would drastically change strategy and focus on models along the lines of the Skyclassics releases, Tu-104, An-22, Dash-7, Il-62, Tu-114, Il-18, Caravelle, Noratlas, etc. If all of the main players keep competing for the young B777 collector, one of them will be no more a year from now.
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Old 05-27-2015, 01:35 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

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Originally Posted by r3500vdp View Post
All of this copycat releasing to me indicates that the 1:200 scale market is extremely small and with margins that are barely showing a profit. If this was a large market with thousands of collectors, no company would care about their competitor's releases, this only occurs because literally every model sold counts currently. If I were Inflight200, I would drastically change strategy and focus on models along the lines of the Skyclassics releases, Tu-104, An-22, Dash-7, Il-62, Tu-114, Il-18, Caravelle, Noratlas, etc. If all of the main players keep competing for the young B777 collector, one of them will be no more a year from now.
+1!

You're absolutely right. Inflight should focus more on classics. 747 classics are fine too. Perhaps they can update their mould with more details but I'm afraid the market is indeed to small for Inflight to go a different direction.


Currently if I need to choose between the JCW 744 and Inflight 744, I still go for the Inflight 747.

The up and down going pax windows on the JCW 747 are really a deal breaker.

For me if Inflight would add more detail and JCW will fix the window alignment the decision would be almost impossible.

Will be a difficult decision if they both show up with the SAA/SAL ZS-SAV done correctly.
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

IF's new 777 mould suggests they are far from ready to throw in the towel to JC or anyone else when it comes to the non-classics. Personally I think they should rise to the challenge, I certainly would if it was my company.
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by willigenburg View Post
I am really getting fed up with Inflight 747 releases.They are simply degraded to expensive toys iso collector models.
.....But the 747 has gone down in quality
I think they are actually going up in quality, little jewels for landing lights in the wings dont really fascinate me, prefer them as they are, though I wouldnt mind having the old clear lenses which disapeared..., Wingroot gap, it never bothered me, The good quality landing gears and rubber tires are back, which is something I prefer, always said that, as for windows too high, or too low, other manufacturers suffer from the same problem, and people love them, not even mentioning cancelling their orders!
So whats what?! Funny world....
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Old 05-27-2015, 03:49 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

The only 747 I have is the IF Air Force One. I'm looking forward to the new AFO release to see what improvements they have made on it. I don't think it will be enough to get me to buy a new one, but really want to see what they do.
The only 777 I have is Gemini 200 so can't comment on that topic here.
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Old 05-27-2015, 04:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

I think that JC has the better 747, but they REALLY need to fix the flight deck/windscreen angle. If they could make a 747 model that is IF's flight deck/nose and JC's body, that would be the ideal model. It's so frustrating that each company has manage to succeed where the other has failed, making my decisions super difficult. The only reason I am still considering IF for some 747 releases is their accurate windshield angle and nose. If JC can fix this major issue on their aircraft, game over for the IF 747 (for me at least).
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Alpha View Post
I understand the frustration of posting pictures of a new model that you love and are proud, of only to have people rip it to shreds with comparisons. But I also understand we all want the best model our money can buy. But with so many people posting pics of models and requesting 'no comparisons', I thought it would be good to have a separate thread for JUST comparisons. If this is not your thing, you don't have to read this thread, but if you like arguing accuracy and who has the best model, HERE YOU GO>


The 777-300ER
The new IF GE-90-115B1 are the right size and the closest to the real thing of any model available today. I also think the nose and cockpit windows are the best that I have seen. The issue with the nose gear position is supposed to be fixed. The only remaining problems are the engine pylons and window and door printing size. The printing can be easily fixed. If IF wants another winning mold that will set the standard for years like their 747s did, they may want to think about reworking the engine pylons.

.
People like to see good photos of models but I feel that someone know this well and think that he has the privilege of "not allow" comparison because of that. Remember, this is a PUBLIC forum not your personal blog, when you are paid to put advertisements here, you are ready to accept any bad or good comments from all over the world, if other OPs can, why you don't? You wear bikini on the beach but not allow judgment about your fat a**? There is no free lunch, pretend to be a white sheep with zero benefit from manufacture or shop? For me, it is easier to believe a pig can talk.
CA,
I still have a question about the GE90 engines, do you have the IF 777 on hand? Can you tell me the maxmimum diameter of the engine nacelle? They can be right size but I need to confirm with some technical data.
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Old 05-27-2015, 05:54 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Mr.Tonka, whatever your real name is, couldnt care less,
lets have something sorted out once and for all;

- I dont get paid anything, the only one getting paid here that I know of is DAC, with the sponsor being ARD. Hence my signature having a link, NOT to the shop but to an account with thousands of crappy pictures ( my pictures) showing models from every brand, for collectors to decide either to buy or not. It so happens that ARD, the sponsor of 1:200 Section in Dac kindly allows me to photograph those same models in the shop, models that are also sold in hundreds shops more, around the world, so Im actually doing the retailers and model makers a favour, Im providing a service here, all done in the good spirit of collecting, in my free time, and free of charge.

- I dont have any privileges, sadly, trust me you would have been blocked from all my posts, Your arrogance and poor manners clearly show the type of person you must be. A sad one that likes to brag....

- I have never asked people to use words like best, excellent, whatever in my threads as you have mentioned before. But I did ask for something simple, that you have failed to fulfill.
There was already a thread about the IF 777, and you could have shown some respect for my request and keep on bashing the model there.

- You also mix words like Forum and Arena, the latter being what describes best your attitude, your nasty comments against my persona filled with sarcasm.

I have been a respected member here, for a long time now, having contributed with many photos from flying boats, General Aviation, commercial aviation, be it Gemini, Inflight, Aeroclassics, Western Models, Smallworld, you name it, oh and yes, JC wings. ( I have paid for all those models photographed, what have you contributed so far?!)
JCWings, which I have slowly started to detest thanks to so many "friendly" comments by "people" like you, I was even once called a JC hater, remember?! Even though I have so many models photographed from that brand, but again, thank God not my favorite brand for a long time now....

- I dont use flashlights to impress members here, and do not manipulate my models photos using Photoshop. What is shown is shown. My comments are my own, I do not represent any brand, although its true, I do like Inflight Models, i have actually entitled myself ; IF200 #1 Fan! Have you seen it?!
...and will keep on posting photos of those same models with the same quality they deserve, and members here deserve, the ones who are real collectors, which is a term you may not be familiar with.

- Please feel free to reply, as you always do, not in the best way as usual, knowing that I wont have it anymore, slander against my persona, nasty comments, etc.
I have reported some comments before, and will keep on doing so everytime I feel I have to. Again, Im being polite and will ask you for the last time, stop it.
We are galaxies apart from each other, so stop it.

Ask Charlie Alpha for the photos I sent him from the new and beautifully shaped Inflight200 B777-300ER, the ones showing the engines with a ruler, they might help you coming up with something great for your boss, JC.
We have nothing else to say to each other, yours truly ( not!)
Rui Aka Retroguy

Ps....whats your name by the way?!

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Old 05-27-2015, 06:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TONKA View Post
People like to see good photos of models but I feel that someone know this well and think that he has the privilege of "not allow" comparison because of that. Remember, this is a PUBLIC forum not your personal blog, when you are paid to put advertisements here, you are ready to accept any bad or good comments from all over the world, if other OPs can, why you don't? You wear bikini on the beach but not allow judgment about your fat a**? There is no free lunch, pretend to be a white sheep with zero benefit from manufacture or shop? For me, it is easier to believe a pig can talk.
CA,
I still have a question about the GE90 engines, do you have the IF 777 on hand? Can you tell me the maxmimum diameter of the engine nacelle? They can be right size but I need to confirm with some technical data.
I think you are confusing your people at least I hope so. I don't have an InFlight 777-300ER yet, although i do have one on pre-order. I am judging the model strictly by Retroguy's excellent photos.

If you are not confusing me with someone else, I don't have the foggiest idea of what you are talking about. This post is about ENCOURAGING discussion and pictures, not limiting it. I really don't know what you are talking about in the first part of your quote. It doesn't seem to fit your response at all.

So, please explain?

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Old 05-27-2015, 06:08 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

Here, let me help you, I think this is what you need to compare some technical data;

[img]image[/img]
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Old 05-27-2015, 06:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroguy View Post
Here, let me help you, I think this is what you need to compare some technical data;

[img]image[/img]
You are a nice guy, if it was a JC model, Mr Tonka would have had the model before the release date...
this guy sells and does not collect for sure....
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Old 05-27-2015, 06:20 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

The 1:200 747 model has definitely been improved on by JCW, no doubt, the engines look more accurate and they have detachable gears which is a big plus. I'm interested to see what their Rolls Royce powerplants will look like.

As for the 777, IF200 have defo raised the bar with their new 777 mold, those big GE90-115bs are much more to my taste than the rather puny looking engines on previous attempts...I guess most of the older 777W moulds engines look more like regular 777-300 engines to me.

To be honest though, all die cast aircraft manufacturers should up their game considerably, if you compare current 1:200 model aircraft with, for example:

Pagani Zonda R



Nissan R89



Mazda 787b



I've got a small collection of 1:18 autoart/exoto/spark racing cars, I don't have many as they are pretty expensive, but the detail is monumental...I am away from home at the moment with work, but when I get home again, I'll take some pics of my own cars - but the stock photos above give some indication of the detail that goes into them. One of these cars costs about as much as 2 diecast 747s, but I think you'd have to agree, the money goes a lot further.

If some of this intricate detailing went into, for example aero engines, I think we'd see some pretty amazing improvements in this hobby!
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Old 05-27-2015, 06:27 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroguy View Post
Here, let me help you, I think this is what you need to compare some technical data;

[img]image[/img]
Thanks but GE engine manual use 12/6 o'clock position for the datum. Can you do a side view?
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Old 05-27-2015, 06:41 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

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I think you are confusing your people at least I hope so. I don't have an InFlight 777-300ER yet, although i do have one on pre-order. I am judging the model strictly by Retroguy's excellent photos.

If you are not confusing me with someone else, I don't have the foggiest idea of what you are talking about. This post is about ENCOURAGING discussion and pictures, not limiting it. I really don't know what you are talking about in the first part of your quote. It doesn't seem to fit your response at all.

So, please explain?
Sorry CA, this is how photos can alter the judgement of people, I am not photographer so cannot offer you the same degree of excellent images, I do hope you check the real thing when you get this model. Pay attention on the cold stream exhaust diameter.
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Old 05-27-2015, 06:47 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

777 landing gear
JCW vs IF


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Old 05-27-2015, 07:29 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

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I think that JC has the better 747, but they REALLY need to fix the flight deck/windscreen angle. If they could make a 747 model that is IF's flight deck/nose and JC's body, that would be the ideal model. It's so frustrating that each company has manage to succeed where the other has failed, making my decisions super difficult. The only reason I am still considering IF for some 747 releases is their accurate windshield angle and nose. If JC can fix this major issue on their aircraft, game over for the IF 747 (for me at least).
What he said......

Could not agree more.
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Old 05-27-2015, 07:35 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

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The 1:200 747 model has definitely been improved on by JCW, no doubt, the engines look more accurate and they have detachable gears which is a big plus. I'm interested to see what their Rolls Royce powerplants will look like.

As for the 777, IF200 have defo raised the bar with their new 777 mold, those big GE90-115bs are much more to my taste than the rather puny looking engines on previous attempts...I guess most of the older 777W moulds engines look more like regular 777-300 engines to me.

To be honest though, all die cast aircraft manufacturers should up their game considerably, if you compare current 1:200 model aircraft with, for example:

Pagani Zonda R



Nissan R89



Mazda 787b



I've got a small collection of 1:18 autoart/exoto/spark racing cars, I don't have many as they are pretty expensive, but the detail is monumental...I am away from home at the moment with work, but when I get home again, I'll take some pics of my own cars - but the stock photos above give some indication of the detail that goes into them. One of these cars costs about as much as 2 diecast 747s, but I think you'd have to agree, the money goes a lot further.

If some of this intricate detailing went into, for example aero engines, I think we'd see some pretty amazing improvements in this hobby!
Those types of cars are exactly the product I pointed out a few weeks ago in another thread. US $250.00 for each of them, but if the quality is there, I would think some among us would pay quality money for a quality product such as this....in airplane form naturally.

How many of us would pay "Herpa Premium" prices for the same quality?

I would as the models can get made to this level of detail.

Poll would bear this out I bet.
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Old 05-27-2015, 09:17 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

second you on that, gunship01. i've always wondered myself why can't diecast aircraft manufacturers come out with the sort of detailing that diecast car manufacturers do. and while i understand that people may be interested in different stuff yes, it kinda gives me an elitist perception that aircraft collectors are willing to accept less bang for their buck than say supercar collectors. the photos you posted are exactly on point. look at how detailed the coil springs and radiator mesh are... and we still have issues with wrong engines and detailing on the aircrafts after all these years. perhaps it's just so much easier to scale down to 18th compared to 200th?
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Old 05-27-2015, 09:18 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

I would go for a $250 model as long as the mold and livery was faultless. Extras such as retractable landing gear of working flaps might even bump what I would be willing to pay up a little bit.

But I wouldn't get more that a couple of show pieces for display. I would still buy 'regular' models for most of my collection.

Last edited by Charlie Alpha; 05-27-2015 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 05-27-2015, 11:07 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

I have that zonda R and many other 1:18 cars. The zonda r is particularly expensive because I believe it has over 600 individual components and working suspension and steering. 1:200 aircraft don't require even 10% of that detail. The manufacturer, autoart, makes many other cars that are even more appropriate comparisons. I have the murcielago sv and it is a nearly flawless representation of the actual car but is only $160 because it has less visible components that need to be modeled. Here are someone's photos from another forum: 2012-07-25-591.jpg Photo by mikum01 | Photobucket.

For the same price as either a new IF or JC 747 this car is 10x the quality with 10x the attention to detail (I'm not just making baseless statements here-- I actually have both the cars and the planes). The big reason for this disparity is that there are fewer "liveries" or schemes to replicate so the diecast car manufacturers are not as interested in limited releases (resin is a whole other story). IF and JC overpriced their models from the onset, and that's what the market has conformed to. Sadly we are just going to have to live with the premium prices for underwhelming quality.

You don't even have to leave the model planes market to see the issue. The discontinued IFs command higher prices than their far superior herpa premium counterparts. It's not quality that determines the prices, it's quantity.

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Old 05-27-2015, 11:16 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

too wordy discussions..... :-(
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Old 05-27-2015, 11:30 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

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too wordy discussions..... :-(
No one is forcing you to read or participate.
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Old 05-27-2015, 11:39 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

Question is can manufacturers make a model as detailed in 200 scale?

The best so far has been the Herpa Premium with the spring loaded landing gears (hint hint to JC and IF) and the clear windows. But how much more detail can they get with the landing gears that won't delay shipment by months? And I doubt the price will increase to $250, but expect it be well over $500 due to the scale and the skills the people they would have to hire to work on detailing such items.

Or if they add the pitot tubes instead of printing it on, I'd think at 200 scale it'll be too brittle and easily break. Thankfully none of the 72 scale military pitot tubes haven't arrived broken off for me yet, kind of scary thinking about searching through the box for something even smaller than the antennae.

Workable flaps would be nice, but...and maybe its dumb luck on my part, but I received the KJ-2000 (retractable flaps on the wings, moveable flaps on the horizontal stabilizers) with one of the horizontal stabilizer flap snapped off. Would be a headache and nightmare for retailers to handle, I would think.
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Old 05-28-2015, 12:12 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

Yeah it's possible to put the detail on a 1:200 model. The car and plane models are almost parallel: 1:18 cars are similar in size and weight to 1:200 planes and 1:43 cars (the other common scale) are very similar to 1:400 or 1:500 planes.

What you say about the price is certainly valid. We are all guessing here because we don't completely know what it would take to make those models. The one way I can see premium quality models made again at reasonable prices as they once were would be if they were made in larger quantities. This would likely require airlines to start placing orders for these models and selling them to passengers through an inflight catalog or online store.

Let's not forget that herpa already has the R&D for the product ready to go if they ever decide to bring back the premium quality.

It would be awesome to have a model with moveable flaps, but if anything, I think it would come from our talented custom builders (brad shinn I'm looking at you ��).
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Old 05-28-2015, 12:22 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroguy View Post
Here, let me help you, I think this is what you need to compare some technical data;

[img]image[/img]
That is one nice ruler
Edges are not quite straight though and hope they fix that for future releases.
Might buy one if they release the imperial version and bet they sell like hotcakes.
Nice image
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Old 05-28-2015, 12:43 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

I'm not sure we can compare model cars with model planes. There is a huge difference because of economies of scale. There are many more model car collectors than plane collectors - so cost to produce and level of detail are not directly relatable or comparable.
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Old 05-28-2015, 03:11 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

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Yeah it's possible to put the detail on a 1:200 model. The car and plane models are almost parallel: 1:18 cars are similar in size and weight to 1:200 planes and 1:43 cars (the other common scale) are very similar to 1:400 or 1:500 planes.

What you say about the price is certainly valid. We are all guessing here because we don't completely know what it would take to make those models. The one way I can see premium quality models made again at reasonable prices as they once were would be if they were made in larger quantities. This would likely require airlines to start placing orders for these models and selling them to passengers through an inflight catalog or online store.

Let's not forget that herpa already has the R&D for the product ready to go if they ever decide to bring back the premium quality.

It would be awesome to have a model with moveable flaps, but if anything, I think it would come from our talented custom builders (brad shinn I'm looking at you ��).
hmm... i don't think it works quite that way, vg747. the difficulty arises in the scale. imagine shrinking something 18x as compared to 200x... and then you kinda get a feel of the task at hand. yeah, most things are bigger on an airliner... but not everything. that said... i still don't get how they can't get the shape/details accurate.
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Old 05-28-2015, 03:22 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

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I'm not sure we can compare model cars with model planes. There is a huge difference because of economies of scale. There are many more model car collectors than plane collectors - so cost to produce and level of detail are not directly relatable or comparable.
True the economies of scale do exist between these hobbies. But I posit there are some who would jump onboard if a premium product is released. The F-1 Car Model collectors would NEED the Qantas 744 bird with the F-1 livery.

Working flaps may be a bridge too far. It would require a "one pivot point" I imagine -- like a car's hood. What attributes fit that description on a 744/773/A388?

Engine cowling (Fan blades and compressor stages, anyone?)
Cargo door
Front nose of cargo aircraft
Baggage door
Passenger door
APU access panel/door
Thrust reverser doors


Thinking out loud here.....
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Old 05-28-2015, 03:34 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

The thing is, I am wondering...there are more car collectors, but each different car is a whole new mould and parts to develop...take the Mazda 787b, which I think 3 different liveried models were produced. The same goes for the likes of the Jaguar XJR9, or the Zonda R etc.
Now lets look at, for example, the 747. Ok, so each livery is produced in lesser numbers, but there are vastly more liveries, thus the basic hull of the plane is produced in similar numbers. Once you have the hull and engines, you basically have your base model, its only the paint job that differs no?
Maybe I'm wrong, but there must be over 5,000 IF/BBOX/AV200 etc 747-400 hulls, which is a similar number to the amount of cars in a typical production run...although I guess the amount of units sold by a car manufacturer is vastly more than an aircraft manufacturer so I guess that means more R+D, scaling lines etc, etc, so maybe I answered my own question!
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Old 05-28-2015, 03:38 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

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hmm... i don't think it works quite that way, vg747. the difficulty arises in the scale. imagine shrinking something 18x as compared to 200x... and then you kinda get a feel of the task at hand. yeah, most things are bigger on an airliner... but not everything. that said... i still don't get how they can't get the shape/details accurate.
With photo Etch parts you can get down to the nitty gritty parts but unfortunatly it is very fragile , but it is not impossible.

However a new producer need to arrive on the scene

Inflight is not even able to get the printed details right
Let alone fine micro scale parts

I think there is a market for it , but it is small
And you have to think of prices in the upper 500 Eur region (maybe even higher).
There are some companies ( trainmodels) that doe fine scale in brass (Overland) but the prices are high.

I would be in for it , i think it is time to go for a step up in this hobby iso the recent step down in quality.

Last edited by willigenburg; 05-28-2015 at 03:41 AM.
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Old 05-28-2015, 03:50 AM   #41 (permalink)
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With photo Etch parts you can get down to the nitty gritty parts but unfortunatly it is very fragile , but it is not impossible.

However a new producer need to arrive on the scene

Inflight is not even able to get the printed details right
Let alone fine micro scale parts

I think there is a market for it , but it is small
And you have to think of prices in the upper 500 Eur region (maybe even higher).
There are some companies ( trainmodels) that doe fine scale in brass (Overland) but the prices are high.

I would be in for it , i think it is time to go for a step up in this hobby iso the recent step down in quality.
i don't think it's the costing. i think (i may be wrong here) that most collectors are in agreement that with the current price we have to pay for the current models, there should be more effort put into them to set things right. a car's lifespan compared to a airliner? like u said, get the basics right and it boils down to the accuracy of the prints... that's essentially what it is. but no... we're still debating the basics until kingdom come
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Old 05-28-2015, 04:00 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

Well, then, consider Witty Wings and Apollo. Are they the one and the same? Witty lasted several years, Apollo only 1 or 2 years. Did they fail because the market is already saturated in the 400 scale and the military side? Just thinking how can a new player succeed in a saturated market targeting only the slim market of collectors when someone like Witty couldn't last too long.

Just had a thought...how does Bader Models compare to the rest? Their 200 scales are priced around $350 each, $599 for the special liveries.
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Old 05-28-2015, 04:05 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Well, then, consider Witty Wings and Apollo. Are they the one and the same? Witty lasted several years, Apollo only 1 or 2 years. Did they fail because the market is already saturated in the 400 scale and the military side? Just thinking how can a new player succeed in a saturated market targeting only the slim market of collectors when someone like Witty couldn't last too long.

Just had a thought...how does Bader Models compare to the rest? Their 200 scales are priced around $350 each, $599 for the special liveries.
witty wings got caught out by intellectual property rights infringements? isn't that why jcw uses bbox and if200 using jfox to circumvent this?
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Old 05-28-2015, 04:13 AM   #44 (permalink)
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witty wings got caught out by intellectual property rights infringements? isn't that why jcw uses bbox and if200 using jfox to circumvent this?
No s**t?! Got caught or someone turned them in?
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Old 05-28-2015, 04:55 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

Maybe we can all ( the serious collectors) start a Collective , and start up a modelbuilding company that operates with the Serious collector in mind.

With a quility control that is made up out of collectors.
A board that votes what model is good enough and what is not.

This market needs a change

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Old 05-28-2015, 05:23 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

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Maybe we can all ( the serious collectors) start a Collective , and start up a modelbuilding company that operates with the Serious collector in mind.

With a quility control that is made up out of collectors.
A board that votes what model is good enough and what is not.

This market needs a change
That's a great idea
Let's see how united are the serious collectors around the world.
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Old 05-28-2015, 05:33 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Maybe we can all ( the serious collectors) start a Collective , and start up a modelbuilding company that operates with the Serious collector in mind.

With a quility control that is made up out of collectors.
A board that votes what model is good enough and what is not.

This market needs a change
...and the world shall enjoy peace forevermore
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Old 05-28-2015, 11:57 AM   #48 (permalink)
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No s**t?! Got caught or someone turned them in?
Good question. One thing is certain, THEY WERE GOOD!!!!!!
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Old 05-28-2015, 04:05 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: Comparison Thread---JC Wings vs. InFlight

What one person may find acceptable on a model may not be acceptable to another.

There are things that all manufacturers could improve on. It's just a shame that a lot of the things that the consumer wants to see improved could be dealt with earlier in the production stage rather than after the model hits the shelves or the pages of DAC.
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Old 05-28-2015, 06:19 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Thanks but GE engine manual use 12/6 o'clock position for the datum. Can you do a side view?


Didnt you read what the guy wrote ? He even shows a picture with measures, I would not ever! And you go asking for a side view?!
Go buy the model and do your own work!
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