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Old 05-13-2015, 05:31 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Default Re: Save our hobby ..Become more critical.

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Originally Posted by N. Eberhard View Post
Seriously folks, I never thought that this hobby would see so many awesome models as we have now. If that makes me a kiss *** then so be it.
Yep, I am a kiss *** also. Out of the 50 some planes I own. I have returned one because the wings where glued in wrong and they had the wrong angle. Others where returned due to bad scratches on them. But Nick is right, there is so many cool models out there. I am glad I can buy so many Delta planes that I have flown on and worked on. Thanks GJ,Inflight, and BBox for the time and effort you guys do.
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Old 05-13-2015, 06:34 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I think this thread is rather ridiculous. Some of the flaws that people want to gripe about are insignificant to the average buyer. With that being said, I'm not going to jump on the let's praise the manufacturers with some of the entitled attitudes from their representatives. Am I missing something? Are the manufacturers charities? Are they intentionally pumping out products that they know they'll lose money on? It's a business. A business that I've contributed thousands to so if you're waiting for me to grovel at your feet and thank you for putting out models that pay for your car, house, and food then you'll be waiting a very long time.
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Old 05-13-2015, 08:09 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Enjoy our Hobby, Be LESS Critical
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Old 05-13-2015, 08:17 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Default Re: Save our hobby ..Become more critical.

Every time one of the supposed experts posts a "look at the glaring flaws on model X" threads, and if I have that model, I run to my cabinet to check. Each and every time, I can't find these apparently glaring flaws.

In response to a recent thread, I actually got out a ruler, and examined the tops of several 747 models, looking for the terrible "depression". I couldn't find it.

Each and every "glaring flaw" thread has been a wild goose chase. My cockpit windows are ok, my engines are on straight, my wings aren't drooping, my tampo printing is fine, and my cheat lines are approximately where they are supposed to be.

Maybe my powers of observation are suspect. I know my eyesight is 20/20.

I wonder if the supposed experts are as hard to please with regard to other aspects of their life, and with regard to other material possessions. Must be a very, very frustrating existence.

Anyway, I'll go back to admiring my nice Herpa Pan Am 707, which is one of the latest poster children for all thats wrong in our hobby, apparently. I still like it, though, despite what the experts say.
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Old 05-13-2015, 08:41 PM   #55 (permalink)
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they just don't make em like they used to.....
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Old 05-13-2015, 08:41 PM   #56 (permalink)
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This is the inflight

It is the worst i have seen on the 747


You forgot to mention that most importantly, EL AL never wore the titles in this rounded font in this scheme. Inflight screwed up and so did the person on Paintkit that you say has it correct.
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Old 05-13-2015, 09:01 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: Save our hobby ..Become more critical.

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Originally Posted by wu6fiend View Post
Every time one of the supposed experts posts a "look at the glaring flaws on model X" threads, and if I have that model, I run to my cabinet to check. Each and every time, I can't find these apparently glaring flaws.

In response to a recent thread, I actually got out a ruler, and examined the tops of several 747 models, looking for the terrible "depression". I couldn't find it.

Each and every "glaring flaw" thread has been a wild goose chase. My cockpit windows are ok, my engines are on straight, my wings aren't drooping, my tampo printing is fine, and my cheat lines are approximately where they are supposed to be.

Maybe my powers of observation are suspect. I know my eyesight is 20/20.

I wonder if the supposed experts are as hard to please with regard to other aspects of their life, and with regard to other material possessions. Must be a very, very frustrating existence.

Anyway, I'll go back to admiring my nice Herpa Pan Am 707, which is one of the latest poster children for all thats wrong in our hobby, apparently. I still like it, though, despite what the experts say.
This is the never-ending argument that goes on in this forum. No matter which "side" you're on, you can be assured that the other "side" will always tell you they're right. Most likely the bulk of the collectorate is in the middle - if you like it or want it, you buy it (flaws and all). I bought the AA CV-990 knowing the gray patch was on the wrong side. Could they have fixed it or caught it? Sure, but they did not. Nonetheless, to me, it looks like an AA CV-990 and brings back memories of my childhood. NONE of them look exactly like the real thing and never will (but most of them are reasonable facsimiles of the real thing).
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Old 05-13-2015, 10:28 PM   #58 (permalink)
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If the quality of the model justifies the price for it i dont see a reason why i would not pay more for it.

I seek Quality and near perfection.
If i have to pay 250 or 300€ for it fine.
But again it needs to be a true to scale model.

Again maybe it is a gap in the market, and maybe i need to jump in to it.

And if you are going to reproduce same models at least have the dignity to use a different registration instead of re releasing same Reg.nr's
i guess it all boils down to the appetite of the masses... and by the looks of it, people like rockybudgeboa are actually in the majority (and admittedly, i fall within this category too). it's true... when i started collecting, my first thoughts were that the detailing on cars (especially 'em rally works) within the same price band were far more impressive than the stuff you find on the airliners and that got me wondering whether it's such an elitist hobby that people are willing to pay more for less. after all... how hard is it really to get the right number of antennas on, or the shape of the engines correct? then again, to be fair, most of the detailing on cars are plastics (and not tampoed?). but still...

so yeah, from a consumer point of view, if we're paying in excess of $100 it's fair to expect excellent models. but are we getting it? no. are we still buying it? yes. will we stop buying because we're not getting our money's worth... i doubt it. at least not for the masses. but i also believe the market for the near-perfect model will probably come at double or thrice the price (just using herpa premiums as a case study). value for money? no. market? yes... but negligible considering the price. would anyone do it? no... unless you're an ardent collector who values precision above anything else. and for now, the people at jcw and if... they're more than likely to be in-tuned commercially rather than aesthetically. another two cents...
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Old 05-13-2015, 10:31 PM   #59 (permalink)
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This is the never-ending argument that goes on in this forum. No matter which "side" you're on, you can be assured that the other "side" will always tell you they're right. Most likely the bulk of the collectorate is in the middle - if you like it or want it, you buy it (flaws and all). I bought the AA CV-990 knowing the gray patch was on the wrong side. Could they have fixed it or caught it? Sure, but they did not. Nonetheless, to me, it looks like an AA CV-990 and brings back memories of my childhood. NONE of them look exactly like the real thing and never will (but most of them are reasonable facsimiles of the real thing).
agreed. i bought the bbox tropical knowing that the dark brown isn't dark enough and that the cheat lines don't align well around the nose. i just like the sia bird in tropical colours... and jfox missing out an entire colour just didn't cut it. but no, i wasn't about to let both tropical pass just because neither were near-perfect.
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:08 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Some good points made by many in this thread. A few quick thoughts after reading tomcatter's mention of the Herpa Premium Series above:

He's right that the market for Premium-esque models exists, but is too small for any manufacturers to leap into it right now. From what I understand, the only reason the Modell Edition/Premium Series ever came into existence was because Lufthansa partnered with Herpa and presumably provided the necessary funding. Although I'm not holding my breath, maybe a similar partnership between an airline and a manufacturer might happen again in the future. No way would it be a U.S. based airline, but perhaps one of the government-backed Middle Eastern airlines that seem to have plenty of money to burn. Qatar, Emirates, etc. And we know Emirates loves their models, lol. Or maybe even Lufthansa again.

Anyway, I think that's the most plausible way we'd ever see another Herpa Premium type product in the near future. I don't think it's very likely, but one can hope.
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Old 05-14-2015, 04:38 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Every scale has its ugly ducklings......missed research, colour blind checkers and wrong dimensions but thats the nature of this hobby.....
Wheels fall off, colours are wrong, boxes get trashed - just check your models and ask yourself " Is this good enough for me? " then make your decision for you and you only...

Pretty simple.
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:22 AM   #62 (permalink)
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* Glut of models, same scheme being done by more than one manufacturer.
* Postage costs going up and up and up.
* Shops having to buy stock to sell at prices that most cannot pay or pay regularly.
* Second hand value of the model is essentially nothing in terms of ROI unless it is a very rare one.
* There are almost no properly rare models now and will be fewer and fewer as time goes by.
* Evilbay.
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:50 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Bad time for us to get in to the Hobby ?


Not at all. We are enjoying all the different offerings and would enjoy more the need for funds
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Old 05-14-2015, 05:13 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Default Re: Save our hobby ..Become more critical.

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Enjoy our Hobby, Be LESS Critical
I could not agree with you more. I LOVE all of the offerings we have now. I got into the 1/200 diecast hobby in 2009 and since then the offerings are incredible. Used to be only a few coming out every few months.

If you don't like a model, don't buy it. If you do, buy it and enjoy.
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Old 05-14-2015, 06:05 PM   #65 (permalink)
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To those of you who are prepared to support inaccuracy by buying models that are poorly researched, I wish you well and accept your laid back views. As for me, never considered myself an expert, but been around long enough to recognise a real dog when I see it. Also don't like some jack asses re-writing history. Critical review may help towards keeping the percentage of Krap models to a minimum. Isn't that in everyone's interest ?
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:35 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I think there's loads of critical reviews on the DAC so I'm doubtful the hobby is in any danger.

There are so many personal views on what makes a model 'good'. What's the line at which a model is detailed enough or accurate enough? Whats the mark that makes a model 'acceptable' for you at 1:200 scale?

I'm more concerned on the grade of detail to price. More effort and detail increases cost - how many here can afford a 3 or 4 hundred dollar model?

Don't you think that would bring the death of the hobby?

Why doesn't Herpa make more premiums? Because they did the math and its not profitable to continue. People need to stop thinking the manufacturers are clueless - they know exactly who is buying their models and we 'serious collectors' are just a small minority.
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Old 05-14-2015, 07:45 PM   #67 (permalink)
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To those of you who are prepared to support inaccuracy by buying models that are poorly researched, I wish you well and accept your laid back views. As for me, never considered myself an expert, but been around long enough to recognise a real dog when I see it. Also don't like some jack asses re-writing history. Critical review may help towards keeping the percentage of Krap models to a minimum. Isn't that in everyone's interest ?
Good points, and I mostly agree. On the one hand, it's fine to collect and enjoy models despite flaws, and to praise manufacturers for nice models. This hobby has come a long way from the days of Aero Mini and Schabak. HOWEVER, on the other hand, we also need a healthy dose of criticism and collectors who are willing to pass on models that aren't up to snuff. As others in this thread have said, there's still a lot of room for improvement; despite how nice today's diecast is compared to just 20-30 years ago, our model planes are for the most part quite inferior to model car and train products. The only way for the model airplane hobby to catch up is if the market demands it. That's why many of us get frustrated when some users here seem to have absolutely no standards of quality or accuracy and are giddy like schoolgirls over any and every model they receive, no matter what, and would never even dream of uttering the slightest critical remark or hinting at ways a model could be improved.

Criticism and demanding a higher standard is how progress occurs. What if everyone just LOVED the first Apple computers in the 1980s so much, never said anything bad about them, and never had suggestions for improvement, that Apple just kept producing the same thing year after year without advancement or innovation? That's perhaps not the best analogy, but I think it makes my point.
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:56 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Why doesn't Herpa make more premiums? Because they did the math and its not profitable to continue. People need to stop thinking the manufacturers are clueless - they know exactly who is buying their models and we 'serious collectors' are just a small minority.
Exactly what happened to Herpa Premimums, Lufthansa funding the moulds but not for the production, some people wonder why can't have the transparent windows on diecast? I can tell you this is always a nightmare when plastic meet metal, due to different shrank rate at injection, the windows just too hard to match correctly with the holes on a metal fuselage. Even the Permiums are all plastic, they still have this problem, the temperature of the operations must be controlled very precisly, that's why they have to make them in Germany, same answer for the other thread "Why are Sky Classic & Western models so expensive?"...because they are not "Made in China"
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Old 05-14-2015, 10:17 PM   #69 (permalink)
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I'm just happy to see anything other than another American, Delta, Emirates release. Kudos on the TAAG Angola 777-300 from Inflight and the Vietnam A350 from GJ. Finally something original, can't wait to pick these up!
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Old 05-15-2015, 12:11 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Good points, and I mostly agree. On the one hand, it's fine to collect and enjoy models despite flaws, and to praise manufacturers for nice models. This hobby has come a long way from the days of Aero Mini and Schabak. HOWEVER, on the other hand, we also need a healthy dose of criticism and collectors who are willing to pass on models that aren't up to snuff. As others in this thread have said, there's still a lot of room for improvement; despite how nice today's diecast is compared to just 20-30 years ago, our model planes are for the most part quite inferior to model car and train products. The only way for the model airplane hobby to catch up is if the market demands it. That's why many of us get frustrated when some users here seem to have absolutely no standards of quality or accuracy and are giddy like schoolgirls over any and every model they receive, no matter what, and would never even dream of uttering the slightest critical remark or hinting at ways a model could be improved.

Criticism and demanding a higher standard is how progress occurs. What if everyone just LOVED the first Apple computers in the 1980s so much, never said anything bad about them, and never had suggestions for improvement, that Apple just kept producing the same thing year after year without advancement or innovation? That's perhaps not the best analogy, but I think it makes my point.
I'll pass on color inaccuracies. The Delta chocolate tails and the earlier US Airways releases where the white is grey stand out like sore thumbs next to other models. What I won't lose sleep over is a 1cm pylon being incorrectly shaped. As I've said before, if you have to blow up a photo to show your flaw then you've got issues.
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Old 05-15-2015, 04:45 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Let me get this straight as i started the toppic.
Not all models are bad actually the majority looks acceptable to me.
Thats why i am now at almost 100 1/200 models.

The problem lies in my opinion with the Obvious mistakes that are beeing made over and over on certain types. without adjustements from the producers.

I love to also read the more positive replies, it really is a joy to be in this hobby.
But i feel it can do soo much better.

Hey the inflight DC-10 has its flaws but i love it.

I just feel that the Quality control of the producers need someone with a good eye. Someone with knowledge how a plane should look like.

Hey i have been around planes all my live, why dont you ask me to be at a release of a new model. Maybe they should send out a couple of try out's before production.

It cant be that difficult

Last edited by willigenburg; 05-15-2015 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 05-15-2015, 08:36 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Let me get this straight as i started the topic.
Not all models are bad actually the majority looks acceptable to me.
Thats why i am now at almost 100 1/200 models.

The problem lies in my opinion with the Obvious mistakes that are beeing made over and over on certain types. without adjustements from the producers.

I just feel that the Quality control of the producers need someone with a good eye. Someone with knowledge how a plane should look like.

Hey i have been around planes all my live, why dont you ask me to be at a release of a new model. Maybe they should send out a couple of try out's before production.

It cant be that difficult
Hobby Master react well and rectify mistakes. But you usually have to be involved at some stage with them as I was with their super connie. Also IF have noted the problems with the forthcoming Comet 4 model. They too had given sight of a pre-pro model. Just how much they are willing to change I don't know, but there will be improvements on the pre-pro. We all need to share our knowledge in the interest of good models.

My pet hates:

1) High or low cheat line....this is a biggie hate for me.
2) Wrong logo style for name of Airline.
3) Length of fuselage as in IF Comet.
4) Printed overwing exit routes on early 707's (IF)
5) Total screw up on mould as in HM Airbus & Hogan connie.
6) Incorrect dihedral as in HM Viscount that they seem to have withdrawn from use.

Errors that don't offend me:

1) Engine details
2) Tyre size
3) Incorrect colour of registration printing.

I congratulate the factories that do change mistakes that are pointed out.
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Old 05-15-2015, 01:04 PM   #73 (permalink)
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My big complaint is inaccurate colours.e.g the light blue on the fuselage of the
newest IF200 KLM DC-8-63 (PH-DEH) !
It is WAY too light.

Especially that the original DC-8-63 (PH-DED) go it right !!
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Old 05-15-2015, 01:18 PM   #74 (permalink)
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My big complaint is inaccurate colours.e.g the light blue on the fuselage of the
newest IF200 KLM DC-8-63 (PH-DEH) !
It is WAY too light.

Especially that the original DC-8-63 (PH-DED) go it right !!
I know how you feel. Herpa made a lovely KLM Convair 340 but the cheatline blues were both the same colour. When they announced their viscount in the same scheme I emailed and advised with a really good colour pic. They corrected the blue but printed the window line a bit to high. Earlier viscount releases they got the height just right. Bollox!
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Old 05-15-2015, 01:32 PM   #75 (permalink)
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I don't think we will ever see "The Perfect Model" no matter the cost. Between manufacturing limitations and human workmanship there will always be some sort of error or omission. We just need to decide what we are willing to live with, and willing to pay for it.
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