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Old 08-19-2014, 01:51 PM   #1
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Default The Death Of The Hobby

You may not know this but our hobby is dead as a doornail and nobody seems to realise.

The cost of shipping is the cancer that is strangling the whole hobby to death.
I'm predicting the demise of diecast 1:200 scale models in the next 24 months.

Let me explain.

I've been selling some planes as many of you know. I discounted heavily. They didn't sell. I discounted even further. I sold a rare few.

I've been selling GJ200s IF200s JC200s and others for less than half their RRP mint in the box and barely got a sniff. Having discounted in some cases by 60-75% off what I paid I've managed to sell less than half in seven months. Models that are selling for twice what I'm charging on Ebay I cant even get the slightest interest in. I've got a great track record, I pack well, I'm fair and I have lots of users on here who will affirm this.

So what's the issue?

The issue is that people wont buy from me because of what the postage costs.

The last deal I did I agreed to sell a AV200 737 narrowbody that was sold out for years for less than half what I paid and a quarter of what they go for on Ebay. I quoted postage from here to the US at GBP29.90 which is the actual price. the user backed out as he (understandably) didn't want to pay almost twice in shipping what he paid for the model. I ended up paying GBP9 of the postage myself to get the deal done.

GBP35 total deal shipped and the guy felt he was being raped on the postage when in fact I actually paid 30% of it. In the end he backed out.

I reached a deal with another user to sell him my Emirates A380 GJ200, first edition for GBP40 (a third of what I paid new). When I quoted him the postage cost to Singapore (and yes I agreed to pay a third of it) it pushed the total up to nearly GBP70. He backed out. It wasn't worth it. He came back to me to ask if I would be prepared to do the model for GBP50 shipped. Effectively I'd be letting a GBP100 model go for GBP10. I ummed and ahhed and eventually told him I'd very reluctantly accept it - he backed out anyway. Too expensive.

Not blaming the guy - he doesn't want to pay the postage. Fair enough, cant argue with that. Who would?

Ive had seven enquiries in the last few days for models, not sold a single one because in all cases shipping (even if I pay a third of it) is still considerably more than the model itself.

So I'm forced to pay a third of the postage on all the models I send out and discount them to a tiny fraction of their actual worth and they STILL wont sell.

I cannot be the only one.

Postage from here in Dubai isn't especially expensive - its no more so than, say, Europe to Asia or Asia to US or US to Aus. But the cost is rising and pretty soon it will become prohibitive - the models are made in Asia and shipped from the US or Asia and the prices of the models themselves are not coming down any time soon.

We're entering the sort of stage where it will cost you US$100 for the model and US$100 for the postage for a large and heavy model. Its coming soon. Air cargo is much more expensive than it was, container rates are increasing and even in my heyday of buying models I couldn't afford to drop GBP150 on one model.

Diecast models are dying. They will be an endangered species soon because of the cost of moving them around the globe.

As for my collection - I've thrown four or five mint in the box diecast 1:200 models in the bin earlier this year. KLM old livery 767, European Air Lines G-BDXE 747-200, JAL 2005s livery A300, USAF C17 March AFB and Airbus House Livery A380. All beautiful models but had zero interest in them and would cost more to ship them than anyone would have been prepared to pay so into the trash they went. I wouldn't even be able to give them away.

My current sales list is what is left. Either the models are light enough to ship without needing flexible payment options and 0% secured finance til 2018, or they are just too valuable to throw in the garbage and if they don't sell I'll just give them to my little brother to keep hold of until he starts university in 2019, maybe try and sell them then.

Rant over.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: The Death Of The Hobby

Wow those models in the trash... I would have taken them, or you could have given them to another collector or just someone you know...
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:04 PM   #3
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:05 PM   #4
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A hugely cogent and helpful input from Fleetlordatvar as always. Top stuff.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:08 PM   #5
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Wow those models in the trash... I would have taken them, or you could have given them to another collector or just someone you know...
Couldn't even give them away. All were not sold out online, going for very very low prices on Ebay but with lower shipping fees evidently.

Nobody would have taken them even if they were free - they are all big heavy models and postage alone would have been more than they were being sold for on Ebay. No chance am I paying money to send people models for free, sorry.

Nobody else I know is into planes, and they were taking up a lot of room so they had to go. Sad but that's life. Should have thought about that when I bought them.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Death Of The Hobby

Shipping costs are mostly irrelevant because even with free shipping diecast aircraft models don't fetch much on eBay. 1:200 or 1:400 scale does not make a difference, as neither sell easily on eBay. The problem with eBay is greed. People on eBay want everything for nothing. It is not just for diecast aircraft models but everything in general on eBay (unless it is a very rare item).

To make things worse, eBay sellers are subject to buyer fraud and abuse as well as feedback blackmail.

It is best to open a website with a shopping cart and list models there.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:15 PM   #7
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The problem with eBay is greed. People on eBay want everything for nothing. It is not just for diecast aircraft models but everything in general on eBay (unless it is a very rare item).
Truth right there brother. Amen.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:15 PM   #8
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As for throwing models away, I would do that than make a greedy collector happy by getting the model for nothing.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:18 PM   #9
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As for throwing models away, I would do that than make a greedy collector happy by getting the model for nothing.
People saying they'd have taken them free gratis but they wouldn't and end up quibbling over postage. I'd end up subsidising someone else to get free models. Pissed away enough money on this hobbydiction over the years without doing that.

Paid just under GBP250 for those models - may as well have just set fire to the money.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: The Death Of The Hobby

Thats a tough situation... If the hobby was strong in Dubai, I am sure you'd have no problems selling. Shipping costs are a big factor in my purchases, as the models themselves aren't cheap these days.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:26 PM   #11
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Don't be disheartened. I have spent thousands on these models and so have others, but don't dispose of them for throwaway prices. You won't gain much but the greedy buyer will gain lots. I see the greedy buyer as someone who is needlessly taking undue advantage. Like I said, destroy the models if you have to but don't dump them on eBay just to let miserly people succeed on eBay. They pay proper prices to retailers so why should they screw someone like you.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:29 PM   #12
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I know how you feel. but I think any SERIOUS collector would pay the actual shipping cost if model was well below retail. I would. but sadly you have nothing of interest to me. also you cannot help human nature. nearly everybody is trying to screw over somebody else.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:32 PM   #13
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I would take your emirates for £50 shipped, maybe the guy was just a i want i want kind of kid with no money to back it up.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:34 PM   #14
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I am sorry to hear about the challenges you go through to enjoy your hobby. Do you suppose making purchases like Jetfly1968 (of course it helps being a pilot) by going to other countries where diecast is abundant and making purchases in bulk could serve as another way to continue collecting?
I fly mainly within the Gulf. KWI, AUH, DOH and BAH - I do one a week, sometimes more. I do Europe but mainly HAM, IST, LHR, ATH and PRG but perhaps twice a year and only take hand luggage only. I go to Asia two or three times a year (SGN, SIN, BKK, HKG and KUL mainly) but never have time to buy locally and only ever take hand luggage anyway as im never there for more than a couple of days.

Holiday its MRU, MLE, CMB, LCA, no plane shops there.

Modestos ships his models in bulk - I don't buy enough for that. Am getting out of the hobby anyway so stopped buying months ago.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:34 PM   #15
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Stick them on ebay. You may not get much and still pay fees but £10 -£20 for a GJ A380 is a shocking offer.

Having sold alot of models over the year even in 1:400 i might get 50% or less of what i put in, i know how you feel. Post offices are putting prices up worldwide, nothing we can do to help.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:35 PM   #16
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Don't be disheartened. I have spent thousands on these models and so have others, but don't dispose of them for throwaway prices. You won't gain much but the greedy buyer will gain lots. I see the greedy buyer as someone who is needlessly taking undue advantage. Like I said, destroy the models if you have to but don't dump them on eBay just to let miserly people succeed on eBay. They pay proper prices to retailers so why should they screw someone like you.
I couldn't destroy them as in break them into pieces so I just put them in the bin. A sad end for some beautiful models.

Agree with you re Ebay.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:36 PM   #17
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People saying they'd have taken them free gratis but they wouldn't and end up quibbling over postage. I'd end up subsidising someone else to get free models. Pissed away enough money on this hobbydiction over the years without doing that.

Paid just under GBP250 for those models - may as well have just set fire to the money.
People wont even take them for free and pay postage ???? wtf ???

If you feel like giving away anymore, get in touch
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:40 PM   #18
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I would take your emirates for £50 shipped, maybe the guy was just a i want i want kind of kid with no money to back it up.
If I sold it for GBP50 that's a GBP10 fee for the model. I don't need the money - ive thought about what I'm actually doing here and for the sake of a tenner I'll just give it to my little brother and see what its worth in 6 years time.

If I cant get a worthwhile price that's even remotely decent then what's the point in pissing the money away?

Sad really.

I just hope some of the newbs getting into the hobby see and learn. Anyone hoping to do anything but absolutely lose their shirts buying and selling these things is having a bubble bath.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:42 PM   #19
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Stick them on ebay. You may not get much and still pay fees but £10 -£20 for a GJ A380 is a shocking offer.

Having sold alot of models over the year even in 1:400 i might get 50% or less of what i put in, i know how you feel. Post offices are putting prices up worldwide, nothing we can do to help.
Cant stick them on Ebay because it forces you to list postage costs up front and is an absolute nightmare to sort out - nobody will even look twice and it costs money to list them. Even if i did sell them Ebay would take a big cut anyway - Waste of time.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:44 PM   #20
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People saying they'd have taken them free gratis but they wouldn't and end up quibbling over postage. I'd end up subsidising someone else to get free models. Pissed away enough money on this hobbydiction over the years without doing that.

Paid just under GBP250 for those models - may as well have just set fire to the money.
Even sending them domestically? Surely there are others in Dubai who would buy?
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:48 PM   #21
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Even sending them domestically? Surely there are others in Dubai who would buy?
I asked on here and on other sites - only one other Middle East based collector - 777300 - and he's taken all the models from me he wants.

There are no shops here - nearest retailer is Kuala Lumpur. There aren't any collectors, probably because nobody wants to pay the postage!
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:53 PM   #22
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I have to disagree with you. Here in the US, shipping is cheap. I can send my GJ Airport Terminal cross country for $20. The costs of importation don't effect me too much.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:53 PM   #23
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Same principle for my 1:200 military collection.

GBP1800+ worth of models, a lot of rare birds - postage for the lot to Europe around GBP130 depending.

I offered to pay GBP30 of the postage.

I then offered the whole lot for GBP800 shipped. Nobody interested.

Only had one firm offer - guy offered me GBP350 shipped. Was hard to know what to say to him. Its tough to be polite when people are trying to take advantage. I have absolutely no doubt he realised he'd be able to sell them for far far more than I ever could by shipping them to the US to sell there domestically where postage is so cheap.

In the end I decided to keep hold of them. They don't take up as much room as the bigger civil birds and I don't need three hundred and fifty quid enough to go for that.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:55 PM   #24
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I have to disagree with you. Here in the US, shipping is cheap. I can send my GJ Airport Terminal cross country for $20. The costs of importation don't effect me too much.
Which makes the prices Royal Mail and the UAE postage services - let alone the parcel companies - charge all the more disgusting.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:56 PM   #25
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Sorry to hear about yours woes mate, I am pretty new to this hobby, but I am turning into a bit of an addicted collector, and I've managed to get some pretty amazing models from not just the UK/Europe, but a couple from the USA and even South Africa. I don't mind the postage costs if I am after a particular model and I know it's gonna be hard to get at home. I guess its an advantage living in EU or USA/Canada as domestic postage rates are slightly better. I've even had a bit of blind luck in snatching an amazing Ndizani 747-300 from a seller who lived down the road, so I had no postage to worry about. I guess also for the time being at least, I am just happy with my collection and am not too concerned about whether or not I will be able to sell any in the future. I know 1:200 take up a lot of room and storing the boxes is also a space filler, but I guess it all comes down to the individual. I would definitely not bin any models though, seems like such a waste!
Ebay is a weird animal though, some models seem to sell for one price one month, then another pops up a month or so later and it sells for double or more the price...supply and demand I guess.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:04 PM   #26
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Sorry to hear about yours woes mate, I am pretty new to this hobby, but I am turning into a bit of an addicted collector, and I've managed to get some pretty amazing models from not just the UK/Europe, but a couple from the USA and even South Africa. I don't mind the postage costs if I am after a particular model and I know it's gonna be hard to get at home. I guess its an advantage living in EU or USA/Canada as domestic postage rates are slightly better. I've even had a bit of blind luck in snatching an amazing Ndizani 747-300 from a seller who lived down the road, so I had no postage to worry about. I guess also for the time being at least, I am just happy with my collection and am not too concerned about whether or not I will be able to sell any in the future. I know 1:200 take up a lot of room and storing the boxes is also a space filler, but I guess it all comes down to the individual. I would definitely not bin any models though, seems like such a waste!
Ebay is a weird animal though, some models seem to sell for one price one month, then another pops up a month or so later and it sells for double or more the price...supply and demand I guess.
Thanks man.

Yeah it sucks. Since Ebay not an option out here really (its more complicated than Ebay in the UK for a few reasons, not least of which is having to outline postage costs up front so nobody will even look twice at your listing even its free) - there are very limited options.

Binning GBP250 worth of models hurt but paying part of the postage for someone else to have them free would have hurt more. End of the day it is good money after bad.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:18 PM   #27
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Another little story for you. Think this one hurt more than anything else.

I sold an SQ 77W and SQ 744, both IF200 and the current livery 757-200 also diecast to a Singaporean member for a very good price. Believe he bought both the widebodies for GBP90 each and the 757 for GBP30.

Postage came to about GBP50 (I think, was a few months ago now) and he paid - all good.

I was called away on business and asked our office assistants to handle the postage for me - that's what they are there for. It was the first time of several they have stitched me up. I got back (might have been to Japan for a week IIRC) and they still hadn't posted the bloody model. It was more than two weeks after he'd paid me and I still hadn't got it out to him - not good enough, I'd have been pissed off if I was him.

I promised to send it express at my extra cost to make up for it.

I had a model due to go out to a buyer in America as well and told that buyer I would do the same for him.

I mean how much more expensive can it be, right?

So I asked the office assistant guys (who are Indian and very enthusiastic but not blessed with the best in common sense at times) to sort it proto and I gave them a hundred dirhams to "encourage" them. They went away, both boxes arrived soon
(amazingly quick actually) after in good nick, all good.

Then they passed me an invoice from TNT (I never said "courier" they just assumed I meant someone other than Emirates Post).

The invoice was 3,440 Dirhams.

That's GBP563 or US$902.

Absolutely brutal. I felt like crying. I'd basically paid about GBP300 of my own money to send some of the crown jewels of my collection to someone for nothing.

This sort of thing happens in Dubai.

That was around the time I binned the other models. It was not a happy time, collecting wise.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:24 PM   #28
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This is a ridiculous thread. The problem is the OP is shipping overseas. The easy solution is to buy somewhere closer to home. Now if you live in more remote places then yeah...you're limited on options but for the majority, shipping is a non-issue. These models are expensive to begin with. If you're willing to drop $100 on a 777 then you're willing to drop $10-15 on shipping.

I buy Blu-Rays. I buy them in the US. I don't go to some guy in Dubai and buy Blu-Rays so I can then ship them. It doesn't matter how much you want to discount it because someone closer to home can do it cheaper. The UPS truck from Lexington, KY works just fine than the daily 77L from Dubai on FedEx.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:33 PM   #29
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£563 bill for a courier ? wow wow wow .

Was it a legit invoice?

You could have booked a flight and personally delivered for less then that.

I think i was after that SIA 744 but it was gone
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:36 PM   #30
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Dear TOGAselected don't worry,next time I will be in Dubai we can have a coffee and take a look at your models and maybe buy few, no worrys about shipping I can take the models with me!

Regards Modestos
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:38 PM   #31
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When I sell overseas, shipping internationally is always an issue because of the costs. It keeps going higher and higher. But shipping domestically is really not cost prohibitive. A 1/200 model can run between $6.00 to $19.00 depending on what method you choose.

Part of the problem is also all of the model flooding the market. I have a few old models on my list I would like to get, but there are so many new ones coming I cannot afford to keep up with the pace.

I have MUCH better luck selling on eBay than I do DAC. I can hardly every sell models on DAC anymore.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:51 PM   #32
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This is a ridiculous thread. The problem is the OP is shipping overseas. The easy solution is to buy somewhere closer to home. Now if you live in more remote places then yeah...you're limited on options but for the majority, shipping is a non-issue. These models are expensive to begin with. If you're willing to drop $100 on a 777 then you're willing to drop $10-15 on shipping.

I buy Blu-Rays. I buy them in the US. I don't go to some guy in Dubai and buy Blu-Rays so I can then ship them. It doesn't matter how much you want to discount it because someone closer to home can do it cheaper. The UPS truck from Lexington, KY works just fine than the daily 77L from Dubai on FedEx.
Problem is it's not a hundred bucks for the model and ten bucks postage. It's a hundred bucks for the model and eighty bucks postage for anyone who has to ship it long haul international.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:53 PM   #33
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I'd have sold my collection a long time ago for good money if I lived in Europe or US where there are local collectors. Price of living in Dubai I guess.
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:04 PM   #34
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i can buy a 1:200 747 and have it shipped to the uk for 30usd,

no profits in this hobby Toga but it would be nice to get equal or half back but the manufacturers re-release after re-release is killing the collectibilty and interest.

You can list 3 exact same models on ebay and get a different price for them all,
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:30 PM   #35
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This is a ridiculous thread. The problem is the OP is shipping overseas. The easy solution is to buy somewhere closer to home. Now if you live in more remote places then yeah...you're limited on options but for the majority, shipping is a non-issue. These models are expensive to begin with. If you're willing to drop $100 on a 777 then you're willing to drop $10-15 on shipping.
What a well thought out and sympathetic answer.

If you think that the hobby will be able to survive on just US sales where shipping is reasonable, then you are sorely mistaken.

As hobby shops go out of business people will be forced to buy further and further afield or alternatively stop buying. And if sales drop then the manufacturers will produce less and less (or the quality will drop significantly). Both these will drastically affect the price of models.

First of all, models will be instantly RARE and speculators will kill the hobby for you. Alternatively, shipping costs WILL eventually affect you sitting in your tower. Even if shipping within the US is reasonable, it does have a huge impact on international sales. And shipping TO the US will climb over time.

You may think the majority of collectors is US based, but I'm sure that is shifting Eastwards rather rapidly.

Toga, I feel for you. If you had models which I still needed (African), then I would have contacted you.

If a collector really wants a model and if it is the only place to get it, then shipping would be a burden, but one would bite the bullet. But that happens very rarely. I once bought a model from Britain where the model costs GBP41.66 and shipping cost me GBP51.00. GBP92.66 for an Inflight 727, but it is a model I just had to have.

All advise I can give you further is to hold onto the models if you can spare the space and keep a thread with them listed. Hopefully over time people who really want them will contact you. New collectors join from time to time and we search for old threads of models for sale.

My last thought: An honorable person would not try to screw over a fellow collector/seller. I have been looking at your sales threads and compared others on here and I am amazed that some of our fellow collectors ask ridiculous prices for models here, even excluding the shipping costs. And I am saddened that your sales have not gone well, but don't let them go for a loss. In time they will find homes.

Good luck.
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:32 PM   #36
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I know of collectors when looking on Ebay,if it doesn't say free shipping,they won't even consider buying.
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:42 PM   #37
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I think you're right though I don't think it's dead yet, it's dying.
Why? Because of the size of the models. This scale is too big.
I'm too trying to sell a part of the collection and sold only 3 rare ones this year.
I too realized I'm running out of space and not selling any unwanted so I decided to buy only certain models keeping in mind they will stay forever in most cases.

So think the mean reason you don't sell your models is the size of the models.

1 - Collectors are starting to realize they are running out of space.
2 - Collectors wait for specific models to be released for the last space they have.
3 - Shipping costs
4 - Amount of 1/200 releases in a month.
5 - Price of the models.
6 - Not enough newbies to pick up second hand models/ older releases.

I'm afraid the 1/200 scale will not survive. Can take a couple more years but eventually it will end. Starting with certain models staying on the shelf at retailers and collectors not being able to sell their unwanted 1/200 models .
1/500 and 1/400 will survive because of the size of the models.

Hope it will work out OK for you.
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:01 PM   #38
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Hey TOGAselected you sell models on ebay at which account ?
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:04 PM   #39
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I think you're right though I don't think it's dead yet, it's dying.
Why? Because of the size of the models. This scale is too big.
I'm too trying to sell a part of the collection and sold only 3 rare ones this year.
I too realized I'm running out of space and not selling any unwanted so I decided to buy only certain models keeping in mind they will stay forever in most cases.

So think the mean reason you don't sell your models is the size of the models.

1 - Collectors are starting to realize they are running out of space.
2 - Collectors wait for specific models to be released for the last space they have.
3 - Shipping costs
4 - Amount of 1/200 releases in a month.
5 - Price of the models.
6 - Not enough newbies to pick up second hand models/ older releases.

I'm afraid the 1/200 scale will not survive. Can take a couple more years but eventually it will end. Starting with certain models staying on the shelf at retailers and collectors not being able to sell their unwanted 1/200 models .
1/500 and 1/400 will survive because of the size of the models.

Hope it will work out OK for you.
I agree with all of these points. I too think 1:200 won't last, space is the main problem. I can see a drop in 1:200 from some of my customers who used to buy a lot. We need more newbies to start in the hobby as a whole, all scales, with lots of space and disposable money.
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:05 PM   #40
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Hey TOGAselected you sell models on ebay at which account ?
Try this link

http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...ng-prices.html
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:32 PM   #41
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Death of the hobby in the next two years? A bit overstated but as we all know, shipping costs have gone up dramatically. Fortunately, I live close to an excellent brick and mortar hobby shop and I can order whatever I want from them and hang the shipping! Support your local dealer.
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:32 PM   #42
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What a well thought out and sympathetic answer.

If you think that the hobby will be able to survive on just US sales where shipping is reasonable, then you are sorely mistaken.

As hobby shops go out of business people will be forced to buy further and further afield or alternatively stop buying. And if sales drop then the manufacturers will produce less and less (or the quality will drop significantly). Both these will drastically affect the price of models.

First of all, models will be instantly RARE and speculators will kill the hobby for you. Alternatively, shipping costs WILL eventually affect you sitting in your tower. Even if shipping within the US is reasonable, it does have a huge impact on international sales. And shipping TO the US will climb over time.

You may think the majority of collectors is US based, but I'm sure that is shifting Eastwards rather rapidly.
First, when did I ever say that models can survive on US sales alone? Oh, that's right -- I didn't. What I said was is that people will buy closer to home. Do our Western European collectors typically purchase their models from Asian & American dealers? Do our Asian collectors buy from Asian dealers or do they typically go straight to an American website? I don't buy from Acrunia, ARD, etc... because I have other options that make it much more advantageous for me not to do so. Europeans have options to them that are much more advantageous to them than buying from Jetway, Waffle...

You live in Cape Town. Yeah, I get it -- shipping is high for you and there probably aren't a lot of options.

If you really think speculators are killing this hobby then you're sorely mistaken. How many models actually start giving you a great return from your original price? If people are really buying up inventory in the hopes of having the next Herpa Premium KLM 747 then go right ahead. Unless you're super rich to begin with, you won't last very long doing it. Regardless if you're rich or not, if you're buying models with the hopes of them becoming rare then one thing is for certain...you're not very bright. There are much better alternatives to invest your money in. Buying up models with the intent to sell them for greater value in the future is smarter than doing it with computers but still stupid nonetheless.

By the way, I'm a center controller but I appreciate the thought of me sitting in a tower.

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Old 08-19-2014, 05:44 PM   #43
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Thanx mate
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:49 PM   #44
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First, when did I ever say that models can survive on US sales alone? Oh, that's right -- I didn't. What I said was is that people will buy closer to home. Do our Western European collectors typically purchase their models from Asian & American dealers? Do our Asian collectors buy from Asian dealers or do they typically go straight to an American website? I don't buy from Acrunia, ARD, etc... because I have other options that make it much more advantageous for me not to do so. Europeans have options to them that are much more advantageous to them than buying from Jetway, Waffle...

You live in Cape Town. Yeah, I get it -- shipping is high for you and there probably aren't a lot of options.

If you really think speculators are killing this hobby then you're sorely mistaken. How many models actually start giving you a great return from your original price? If people are really buying up inventory in the hopes of having the next Herpa Premium KLM 747 then go right ahead. Unless you're super rich to begin with, you won't last very long doing it. Regardless if you're rich or not, if you're buying models with the hopes of them becoming rare then one thing is for certain...you're not very bright. There are much better alternatives to invest your money in. Buying up models with the intent to sell them for greater value in the future is smarter than doing it with computers but still stupid nonetheless.

By the way, I'm a center controller but I appreciate the thought of me sitting in a tower.
I have been buying from the usa and canada for years as my main suppliers and pretty often from china to call it my 3rd retailer.

Jetway and Waffle say buisness has never been better but ask them who there buyers are, The buyers for these two alone are worldwide from North & South America to middle east - Oz and probably little states in between so i guess its the same worldwide, thats why the internet is a advantage to us all.

I think of all my 1000+ collection i have bought 20 in the uk (ebay and stores)
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:01 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic9048 View Post
First, when did I ever say that models can survive on US sales alone? Oh, that's right -- I didn't. What I said was is that people will buy closer to home. Do our Western European collectors typically purchase their models from Asian & American dealers? Do our Asian collectors buy from Asian dealers or do they typically go straight to an American website? I don't buy from Acrunia, ARD, etc... because I have other options that make it much more advantageous for me not to do so. Europeans have options to them that are much more advantageous to them than buying from Jetway, Waffle...

You live in Cape Town. Yeah, I get it -- shipping is high for you and there probably aren't a lot of options.

If you really think speculators are killing this hobby then you're sorely mistaken. How many models actually start giving you a great return from your original price? If people are really buying up inventory in the hopes of having the next Herpa Premium KLM 747 then go right ahead. Unless you're super rich to begin with, you won't last very long doing it. Regardless if you're rich or not, if you're buying models with the hopes of them becoming rare then one thing is for certain...you're not very bright. There are much better alternatives to invest your money in. Buying up models with the intent to sell them for greater value in the future is smarter than doing it with computers but still stupid nonetheless.

By the way, I'm a center controller but I appreciate the thought of me sitting in a tower.
I have been buying from the usa and canada for years as my main suppliers and pretty often from china to call it my 3rd retailer.

Jetway and Waffle say buisness has never been better but ask them who there buyers are, The buyers for these two alone are worldwide from North & South America to middle east - Oz and probably little states in between so your local theory is not correct, thats why the internet is a advantage to us all.

I think of all my 1000+ collection i have bought 20 in the uk (ebay and stores)
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Old 08-19-2014, 06:14 PM   #46
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The main issue here is that Dubai is a 'dead zone' when it comes to this hobby (along with most of Africa and a few other areas). The second issue is the outrageous cost to ship from Dubai. The notion that a $100 model would cost $80 to ship is extremely rare worldwide and is by far not the norm.

Other than that, the hobby is FAR from dead.


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A hugely cogent and helpful input from Fleetlordatvar as always. Top stuff.
What do you expect? Fleetlordatvar is the self-appointed King of the DAC trolls.

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Old 08-19-2014, 06:34 PM   #47
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I would love to help out toga but the costs to get them to me will be heavy as you stated in the email to me before!
And I sell a lot on ebay despite the fees as I can never sell anything here
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:13 PM   #48
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Wow. arctic9048 was spot-on when he said this is a ridiculous thread. So ridiculous that I wonder if the OP is just trolling us. A few thoughts from someone who's been in the hobby for over a decade, long before Gemini200 even existed:

Firstly, the hobby isn't dying, and 1:200 scale certainly won't meet its demise within the next 24 months. TOGAselected has a unique perspective being in Dubai. As Nick Eberhard pointed out, shipping costs to/from Dubai are far from normal, making Dubai a bit of an anomaly in that regard. For the vast majority of collectors, shipping costs are very reasonable and hardly even factor into a purchase. TOGAselected's experiences are way outside of the norm, and it's imprudent to make outlandish, sweeping generalizations about the hobby as a whole based on those experiences.

Secondly, the original post in this thread is all about secondhand models, and from an international seller (to most people), no less. It's absurd to claim the entire hobby is dying just because the OP has had some difficulties selling some obscure, pre-owned models from a corner of the globe which apparently has outrageous shipping rates. The market for pre-owned models has never been great. There are of course several notable models that have become rare and sell easily for a pretty penny on the secondhand market, but these examples have always been only a small fraction of all 1:200 models. The vast majority simply do not hold their value. That doesn't mean the hobby is dying, it just means that the demand has been met by retailers. I think most collectors are well aware that if they decide to part with a significant portion of their collection, they aren't even going to come close to recouping the initial $$$ they dished out.

Another reason the secondhand market has never been great: when given the option of either buying a model brand-new from a retailer, OR secondhand from a collector instead, most people will opt to buy from a retailer, even if the cost is higher. The reasons are many and obvious: you know you're getting a brand-new model, you're probably covered if the model arrives defective or damaged, and you have peace of mind knowing you're dealing with a legit business who isn't out to scam, will ship right away, etc.

In regard to TOGAselected lamenting the cost of worldwide shipping rising: I don't have the statistics in front of me, but I don't doubt this is true. However, in the U.S. it remains very reasonable. Sure, it's gone up, but EVERYTHING goes up in price. It's called inflation. I'd argue that the MSRP of a Gemini Jets 1:200 model has risen much more than the inflation rate (and shipping costs) in the 7 years or so they've been around. For example, a narrowbody GJ200 retailed for somewhere in the mid to high $40 range back in 2007/2008. Now, those same narrowbody types retail for $60-$70. If that kind of price increase of the models themselves hasn't killed the hobby, then rising shipping costs surely won't.

Anyway, this post is getting rather long, so I'll wrap it up by asking the OP a question in response to this statement of his:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TOGAselected View Post
All beautiful models but had zero interest in them and would cost more to ship them than anyone would have been prepared to pay so into the trash they went.
If you had zero interest in those models, why did you buy them in the first place? That makes no sense. Surely you had an interest in them when you acquired them, no? I can't imagining going from "interested enough to spend $100" on a model to "so disinterested, I'd rather throw them in the trash than store them away in a closet." I think every collector who's in the game for a significant period of times goes through slight ups and downs in terms of interest, perhaps takes a break from making purchases, keeping up with new releases and forums, etc. I know I certainly do. But I can't fathom losing interest to the point of throwing my models away. That's just retarded.

Last edited by Mike777; 08-20-2014 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:22 PM   #49
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Default Re: The Death Of The Hobby

Well said, Mike. I guess that wraps up this thread.
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Old 08-19-2014, 08:28 PM   #50
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Default Re: The Death Of The Hobby

I'm with Arctic9048, Mike and Nick on this one - the hobby are far from dead. I'd argue it's more alive than ever - we have more models being released than ever with many still selling out within a couple of months of being released.
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