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Old 11-26-2012, 03:55 PM   #1
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Question And again: What faults are acceptable

Hiya!

I know this is turning into one of my favorite questions, but I'm still learning. I wanted to ask for your opinions on some of the models I received which have various flaws:

1. Herpa 737-800 Kulula Flying 101. On the right winglet, the green color is not evenly applied, there is some silver peeking through at the edges. Did not contact seller yet:



2. Risesoon TAM 777. The vertical stabilizer misses some paint in the panel lines.



3. Risesoon Saudi 747. Scratch on vertical stabilizer:



4. Hogan Iberia A346. Scratch in tail cone, silver paint chipped off around horizontal stabilizers. Asked seller for exchange/refund, answer pending:





5. Hogan PIA 777. Cargo bay door(?) smudged(?). Asked seller for exchange/refund, answer pending:



I am starting to believe that there are no models without flaws. Or I might just have a lot of bad luck. But I guess at least the PIA and Iberia merit asking for an exchange. What do you think? What about the other models?

Cheers,
Ben
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:27 PM   #2
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

On question. Can you live with these flaws? If no, ask for replacements. As long as they are done with in the amount of time the seller says he will except returns.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:32 PM   #3
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

Having collected for ten years,very few have been unacceptable to me. From your photos,I would let photo # 3 go. The others,I would prefer exchange. If you look hard and long enough,most models have a small flaw. I know some people (myself guilty at times),who use magnification to look at models. I do it mostly to appreciate detail. The problem with exchange is,the shipping cost back and forth. If possible,ask seller to look for obvious QC problems,and be specific.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

Personally, I could easily live with the Saudi, not too sure about the others. As you say, there are no totally flawless models. I think that the types of flaw you are prepared to live with, is very much up to the individual. I guess something else that may influence your decision, is how rare is the model, and how easy it would be to get another.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

Well, I am also worrying about resale value. I guess I could live with the Saudia defects, also because it is no longer available at the seller. I am rather unhappy with the PIA and Iberia ones (who knows what else of the paint job will chip off next?) And on the TAM and Kulula I am still unsure. It's rather small defects, but then especially on a Herpa I had expected better.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

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Originally Posted by Kitty Hawk 1903 View Post
The problem with exchange is,the shipping cost back and forth. If possible,ask seller to look for obvious QC problems,and be specific.
Exactly my point. In some cases shipping cost makes an exchange uneconomical. But I guess it's a good idea to ask for extra QC by the seller. I doubt that all will do this, but if I find one that could become my default dealer... ;-)
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:38 PM   #7
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

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I guess something else that may influence your decision, is how rare is the model, and how easy it would be to get another.
Yup, I guess except for the Saudi 744, the models should be somewhat easily replaceable.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:40 PM   #8
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

I've only been a part of this hobby for a short while, but for what its worth, I'm pretty forgiving with regard to the printing/painting on models. After all, the real aircraft are only perfect the day they are delivered.

There was a member on here recently asking whether the finish of an AA model was acceptable. To me, its somewhat worn, scuffed finish was closer to the real thing than if it had a flawless, mirror shine. Every AA plane I've ever flown has been pretty beat up looking.

I'm much more concerned about damaged/broken gear on models.

Your #1 photo is probably more realistic than a perfect paint finish, particularly on that part of the plane.
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Old 11-26-2012, 05:06 PM   #9
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Wink Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

I guess that is the advantage of being an ex-modeller. Each of those very minor marks could be fixed very easily enough.
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Old 11-26-2012, 06:52 PM   #10
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

Sadly I must admit above flaws are not unusual. For Herpa Kulula I suggest you can contact Herpa official customer service. By this way Herpa can understand how poor quality control is.
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Old 11-26-2012, 09:35 PM   #11
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

I would say its common for the hogans to have small flaws, I have had my fair share of slight miss prints, or the printing 'rubbing' in the packaging. Usually for the price it isn't worth a send back I wouldn't have thought, unless its an obnoxious error you couldn't live with. I admit, you'd expect better from a Herpa though!

Let us know what you decid mate.

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Old 11-26-2012, 10:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

I assume you bought these models brand new. My acceptance level is when I hold the model arm length without noticing the flaw, otherwise I will return and ask for a replacement and if the model is still in stock. You are correct there's no such thing as an error free model.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:59 AM   #13
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

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Originally Posted by firefly View Post
My acceptance level is when I hold the model arm length without noticing the flaw, otherwise I will return and ask for a replacement and if the model is still in stock.
Sounds a good strategy to me.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:47 AM   #14
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

Apart from the Saudi 747, all the other defects are noticeable to me. If the sellers didn't mention those defects in the sale descriptions, I would definitely ask for refunds.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:33 AM   #15
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

Quote:
Originally Posted by firefly View Post
I assume you bought these models brand new. My acceptance level is when I hold the model arm length without noticing the flaw, otherwise I will return and ask for a replacement and if the model is still in stock.
That sounds like a pretty good way to define the threshold for acceptable flaws. Or it can serve as an eye exam... ;-)

Well, thanks a lot for all the replies so far. I was wondering whether I am too critical over minor flaws because I do not want to cause too much trouble to otherwise very helpful and friendly vendors.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:30 PM   #16
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Default Reaction from a seller

The seller of the Hogan/Risesoon models got back to me and told me how there are hardly any models w/o flaws. We agree... :-) However, he refuses to take back the Iberia and PIA models because it stated in the auctions that he does not accept returns.

I understand that normally "no returns" is for buyers who are not satisfied although the article is as described. If they are not as described, it is always possible to return items. On the listings it stated the models were

"Nieuw: Een gloednieuw, ongebruikt, ongeopend, onbeschadigd object."

New. Undamaged. This is clearly not the case, so I guess he'd have to take them back... At least here in "socialist" Europe... ;-) I'll have to see.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:53 PM   #17
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

If he described them as new, you can always file a complaint to Ebay (if that's the case). In these situations, I believe the buyers win most of times . Good luck.
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Old 11-27-2012, 06:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nurunet View Post
The seller of the Hogan/Risesoon models got back to me and told me how there are hardly any models w/o flaws. We agree... :-) However, he refuses to take back the Iberia and PIA models because it stated in the auctions that he does not accept returns.

I understand that normally "no returns" is for buyers who are not satisfied although the article is as described. If they are not as described, it is always possible to return items. On the listings it stated the models were

"Nieuw: Een gloednieuw, ongebruikt, ongeopend, onbeschadigd object."

New. Undamaged. This is clearly not the case, so I guess he'd have to take them back... At least here in "socialist" Europe... ;-) I'll have to see.
Honestly, you'd be farther ahead if you bought from a bona fide retailer, instead of eBay. Since you are in 'socialist' Europe, try ARD (UK), Arcunia or one of the other Continental retailers.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:46 AM   #19
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

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I am starting to believe that there are no models without flaws. Or I might just have a lot of bad luck. But I guess at least the PIA and Iberia merit asking for an exchange. What do you think? What about the other models?
Ben,

Actually, none of these flaws are "acceptable" as you are paying a requested retail price which includes a flawless (or mint, or impeccable) product. Any flaw disturbing the overall correctness and accuracy is beyond (or below) the acceptable. It's that simple.

And... concerning your doubts in the last paragraph: there ARE models without flaws. But: there won't be any models without flaws in the future if the collectorate accepts the flaws today!
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:04 AM   #20
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And... concerning your doubts in the last paragraph: there ARE models without flaws. But: there won't be any models without flaws in the future if the collectorate accepts the flaws today!
Mass production, which ensures that the models we covet so much, remain reasonably affordable, will yield flaws. What you percieve as a flaw, may not be classed as such by someone else. Is the lack of accuracy in the overall shape of the model, compared to the real thing, a flaw? Personally, I would say it is. How about incorrect engines, over scale antennae, oversized 'gaps/joins' not visable on the real thing, but often necessary for the construction of a particular model. Oversize landing gear, missing, or incorrect beacons/navigation lights, how the model feels or sits, and so on. That's leaving aside the graphics side of things. Incorrect colours, missing, or incorrectly placed doors and windows, cockpit glazing, overall standard of finish etc.

IMO, what may be classed as a flaw by one collector, may be 'tolerated' by another, or missed altogether. I don't accept that by collectors accepting these models, they will be consigning the hobby, into a pit of everlasting inaccuracies, and poor finishes. Most of the 1/200 models of today, are works of art. Even those exquisite, and usually very expensive, hand made modelling masterpieces, will have their flaws, Like most things in life, that's just how it is.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:33 AM   #21
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Default Re: Reaction from a seller

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Honestly, you'd be farther ahead if you bought from a bona fide retailer, instead of eBay. Since you are in 'socialist' Europe, try ARD (UK), Arcunia or one of the other Continental retailers.
I agree with you in principle, but the models I was looking for initially were not available at my standard retailers - Arcunia, ScaleModelStore, Aviation Center Berlin or Aviation Megastore. So I found this retailer and, conveniently, he had a few more models I was interested in...
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:37 AM   #22
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

As a small update, I have news on the Herpa Kulula 737. It came from a different seller (real retailer) who has Herpa handle the customer service for their models directly. I sent them the photo and they immediately promised to send me a new model. Herpa FTW! ;-)
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:39 AM   #23
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Default Re: And again: What faults are acceptable

There you go, we'll done
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