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Old 03-22-2011, 02:41 PM   #1
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Default USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

A Lakenheath based F-15E crashed in Libya. Pilots ejected, already rescued from Libya.

Lezuhant egy amerikai F-15-ös

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/22/libya.civil.war/index.html?hpt=T1

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Old 03-22-2011, 03:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

What a great time for a mechanical...
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

Kinda makes me wonder seeing how the USAF has a pretty good record when it comes to safe flying. Flying accidents down for 2nd year - Air Force News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Air Force Times
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Old 03-23-2011, 12:21 AM   #4
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

At least it's not in combat the F-15 still has a perfect combat record
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:01 AM   #5
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

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At least it's not in combat the F-15 still has a perfect combat record
against which aircraft ?
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:33 AM   #6
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

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against which aircraft ?
mostly MIGs

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVH_gob1wvI


"As of 2008, the F-15 in all air forces has an air-to-air combined kill record of 104 kills to 0 losses in air combat"
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Old 03-23-2011, 06:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

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mostly MIGs

www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVH_gob1wvI


"As of 2008, the F-15 in all air forces has an air-to-air combined kill record of 104 kills to 0 losses in air combat"
I think the F-16 does as well, but the F-18 doesn't. One was lost to a Mig-25 during the 1st Gulf War. If I remember correctly the Mig-25 was able to sneak up on the F-18 from the rear and take it down.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

That doesn't count as air-to-air combat, that's a sneak attack on a loaded bomber. Still plenty of theory/evidence it may have been a SAM instead IIRC. For Hornets actually loaded with missiles knowingly engaging fighters, it's undefeated.
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:21 PM   #9
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That doesn't count as air-to-air combat, that's a sneak attack on a loaded bomber. Still plenty of theory/evidence it may have been a SAM instead IIRC. For Hornets actually loaded with missiles knowingly engaging fighters, it's undefeated.
Oh ok, so because he didn't know he was being targeted it doesn't count as a kill for the Iraqi Mig? You better tell that to all those aces in WWII that adorned their planes with rising suns and iron crosses that they don't count as air to air combat. Bomber? The planes official title is an F/A-18 Hornet. It's a fighter and it was most likely carrying at least one AAM. Early on it was reported as a SAM kill. As more info was released due to the high interest of the case, it was determined to be an Iraqi Mig25 that shot it down including testimony by the USN before Congress.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:26 PM   #10
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

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Oh ok, so because he didn't know he was being targeted it doesn't count as a kill for the Iraqi Mig?
Not in the "air to air combat" category. It's little different than the F-15E that took out a helicopter with a bomb. Or the Rafale that took out an unarmed Galeb today. When they have no chance of fighting back it's not an "air to air duelling victory" which is what's implied by the F-15/F-16 perfect records.

(of course, the F-15 has a few Galeb victories credited too)
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

So now it's "air to air dueling victory"? Never heard of the term. You can call it what you want, but it was air to air combat.

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Old 03-25-2011, 12:14 AM   #12
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

Whats a "Galeb"?
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:41 AM   #13
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

Anyone asking themselves whose supporting these so-called rebels ?
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:23 AM   #14
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

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Anyone asking themselves whose supporting these so-called rebels ?
In some cases the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Didn't we just go through this with Egypt? Now we have to deal with the Muslim Brotherhood on Egyptian soil. Is Libya next?
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

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Anyone asking themselves whose supporting these so-called rebels ?
That is a good question, but another question that has to be asked is who's providing the info on the rebels identities? I know there has been speculation that they are actually Al-Qaeda. But how do you know and where is that info coming from. In the very begining of the conflict Gadafi blamed this all on the US. Then he blamed Europe, and now he claims its Al-Qaeda. The one thing that is refreshing is the articles detailing the crew of the F-15 that went down. Its refreshing that the locals came out and thanked them and assisted them in their rescue.
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:50 PM   #16
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

Another good question would be, why are so many countries concerned about the blood shed in Libya as opposed to the rest of the countries in the Middle East? What makes them so special?
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:02 AM   #17
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

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another good question would be, why are so many countries concerned about the blood shed in libya as opposed to the rest of the countries in the middle east? What makes them so special?
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:04 AM   #18
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinkng.
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Old 03-26-2011, 01:09 AM   #19
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

It all depends from which countries perspective.
As far as southern Europe is concerned (France, Italy) the massive arrival of refugees from Libya resulting from the Lybia unrest is a major concern.

And as to how to qualify the rebels, sometimes the simplest and most logical answer would be to consider them as normal people which basic and legitimate revendications, a pattern that can be seen in all the countries presently in turmoil (Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Yemen, Egypt, Bahrain, Syria, Jordania)

They are tired of corruption, royal families or despot regimes that concentrate the economic power in their hands, suppress opposition, and enrich themselves while very little benefits trickle down to the people.

But then we would have to open a new topic if we were to go into details.
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Old 03-26-2011, 02:34 AM   #20
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

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That doesn't count as air-to-air combat, that's a sneak attack on a loaded bomber. Still plenty of theory/evidence it may have been a SAM instead IIRC. For Hornets actually loaded with missiles knowingly engaging fighters, it's undefeated.
If you bothered to research Speicher's loss half as well as you did for your airliner articles I suspect you'd be singing a different tune.
Useful start points: MiG-25P, R-40RD, al-Taqaddum AB and Davoud (also spelled Dawood)...

On another note, I can think of at least one F-16 loss in air-to-air combat just off the top of my head without any research... While the countries involved weren't technically at war, shots were definitely fired in anger... See if you can guess it!

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Old 03-26-2011, 09:24 AM   #21
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If you bothered to research Speicher's loss half as well as you did for your airliner articles I suspect you'd be singing a different tune.
Useful start points: MiG-25P, R-40RD, al-Taqaddum AB and Davoud (also spelled Dawood)...

On another note, I can think of at least one F-16 loss in air-to-air combat just off the top of my head without any research... While the countries involved weren't technically at war, shots were definitely fired in anger... See if you can guess it!
I always thought that battle was Turk F-16's vs Greek F-16's. After a little Google, I guess not. Must have been a good pilot to take down two F-16s with a Mirage 2000.
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Old 03-26-2011, 09:51 AM   #22
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I always thought that battle was Turk F-16's vs Greek F-16's. After a little Google, I guess not. Must have been a good pilot to take down two F-16s with a Mirage 2000.
Yep. That's the one I was thinking of. Well spotted!
Not to take anything away from the Greek pilot, but the Mirage 2000 is of the same generation as the F-16 and is definitely no slouch in air-to-air. Likewise, the all-aspect R.550 Magic II that was used is a pretty fine weapon being more manueverable than AIM-9L/M and with better ECCM (pretty much AIM-9M-5 standard) it just lacks a bit in range compared to the nines.

Aaanyway - back to the thread topic, the F-15E that came down in Libya on Monday was 91-0304 tail code 'LN' from the 492FS, 48FW.
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Old 03-26-2011, 05:28 PM   #23
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Yep. That's the one I was thinking of. Well spotted!
Not to take anything away from the Greek pilot, but the Mirage 2000 is of the same generation as the F-16 and is definitely no slouch in air-to-air. Likewise, the all-aspect R.550 Magic II that was used is a pretty fine weapon being more manueverable than AIM-9L/M and with better ECCM (pretty much AIM-9M-5 standard) it just lacks a bit in range compared to the nines.

Aaanyway - back to the thread topic, the F-15E that came down in Libya on Monday was 91-0304 tail code 'LN' from the 492FS, 48FW.
The plane was from RAF Lakenheath.
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Old 03-26-2011, 08:59 PM   #24
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The plane was from RAF Lakenheath.
Well that was its homebase, hence the 'LN' tailcode.
I was under the impression they were actually flying out of Aviano at the time. I shall double check.
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Old 03-26-2011, 10:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

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Well that was its homebase, hence the 'LN' tailcode.
I was under the impression they were actually flying out of Aviano at the time. I shall double check.
I also believe it came from Aviano, because AFAIK, that's where they're massing their fighters.
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Old 03-27-2011, 10:47 PM   #26
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

Going through my slides and came across the F-15E #91-0304 that crashed in Libya. Picture was taken at a Red Flag Exercise, Nellis AFB.

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Old 03-27-2011, 11:07 PM   #27
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

what year was that taken Chekur?
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:19 PM   #28
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Photo was taken in 1995
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:02 AM   #29
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I also believe it came from Aviano, because AFAIK, that's where they're massing their fighters.
It's called being TDY. Temporary Duty. It might have flown out of Aviano, but the LN indicates that airplane belongs to RAF Lakenheath. USAF planes go TDY all the time and if you were to ask the crews where are they from they would tell you the home base.

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Old 03-28-2011, 09:07 AM   #30
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Going through my slides and came across the F-15E #91-0304 that crashed in Libya. Picture was taken at a Red Flag Exercise, Nellis AFB.
That's intresting that the plane still flies out of Lakenheath after all these years. Usually when Active Duty jets go to depot maintenance every 4 years, they end up with another unit when they are done.
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Old 03-28-2011, 05:23 PM   #31
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

Lakenheath is "dedicated" to the later version of the F-15E with the improved engine (identifiable by an extra scoop on the CFT). Seymour-Johnson generally has the earlier ones. They don't mix/swap for that reason. (SJ went from 3 to 4 squadrons a couple years ago, and I wonder if the 4th squadron has the newer ones---I'd guess they came from Mountain Home?)
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Old 03-28-2011, 07:10 PM   #32
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Lakenheath is "dedicated" to the later version of the F-15E with the improved engine (identifiable by an extra scoop on the CFT). Seymour-Johnson generally has the earlier ones. They don't mix/swap for that reason. (SJ went from 3 to 4 squadrons a couple years ago, and I wonder if the 4th squadron has the newer ones---I'd guess they came from Mountain Home?)
What about Eglin, Nellis and Edwards AFB? After doing a quick look on airliners.net, the F-15E's do swap bases. http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA--...da639e964597c0
http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA--...da639e964597c0

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Old 03-29-2011, 12:41 AM   #33
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Those are all testing squadrons, not front-line operators that need every plane to behave identically for every crew. They have "mutt" squadrons--they take what they can get. Similar to NASA's fleet. Tons of oddballs. Can you imagine the chaos trying to run strikes on Libya right now if there were multiple engine types with different maintenance procedures on each F-15E within a single squadron combined with different avionics installed?

As opposed to say Hill AFB, which is pure Block 40 F-16's yet Shaw AFB is pure Block 50. Every F-16 in the 132FW was Block 42 but now they're all Block 30.

The Navy goes even futher, and often will have nigh-sequential serial numbers within a squadron to maintain commonality. Certainly from the same block. Except for of course the testing/training squadrons.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:41 AM   #34
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In some cases the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. Didn't we just go through this with Egypt? Now we have to deal with the Muslim Brotherhood on Egyptian soil. Is Libya next?
I remember a certain Soviet Afghan war where we helped the rebels and
they paid us back in spades some years later.
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:55 PM   #35
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

Some Nellis F-15E's that I photographed in 1995 at "Gunsmoke"

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Old 03-29-2011, 05:10 PM   #36
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Lakenheath F-15E's at "Gunsmoke"

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Old 03-29-2011, 06:01 PM   #37
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Can you imagine the chaos trying to run strikes on Libya right now if there were multiple engine types with different maintenance procedures on each F-15E within a single squadron combined with different avionics installed?
Actually I can. I worked on just about every C-135 imaginable at Offutt, AFB. Just about every plane was different.

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Old 03-29-2011, 08:54 PM   #38
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I can only imagine how many variations the -135 fleet had once they started snagging spares from various PAA and TWA 707s in the desert.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:33 PM   #39
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I can only imagine how many variations the -135 fleet had once they started snagging spares from various PAA and TWA 707s in the desert.
Those were only for the AWACS and J-STARS. Most parts for a C-135 and 707 aren't compatible. From the outside they look very similar, but there are many differences mechanically.
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Old 03-30-2011, 09:51 PM   #40
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Those were only for the AWACS and J-STARS. Most parts for a C-135 and 707 aren't compatible. From the outside they look very similar, but there are many differences mechanically.
And BA is looking to offer the 762 to replace them as well
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:18 PM   #41
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

IIRC, the entire tailfin and landing gear assemblies from 707's were used to repair the -135 fleet, plus the many upgraded with turbofan engines.
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:37 PM   #42
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I don't see how the landing gear's could have been used on a 135. They are completely different. I could see the TF-33 engines from the 707 being used on the old E model Tanker. R model tankers have CFM-56 engines that the 707 never had.

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Old 04-01-2011, 07:52 PM   #43
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After doing some research,

"Why are many of the KC-135 and Boeing 707 missing their tails?

The engines of these aircraft have been reclaimed and were returned to service to support the active KC-135 fleet. When the engines were removed the centre-of-gravity of the aircraft was affected, the vertical stabilizers were removed to prevent the aircraft from tilting back onto their tails." The AMARC Experience - Frequently Asked Questions
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:04 PM   #44
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Maybe it's only intra-707-family swapping for the fins. (apparently it was easier to swap the entire fin between a 720 and 707-320 etc to get an HF antenna than to merely swap the antenna). I'll have to go find the book that talked about the landing gear again and see what it says.

I could have sworn the whole 135/707 family shared a lot of tail parts though.
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Old 04-05-2011, 08:41 PM   #45
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

The landing gear on a 135 and a 707 have the same concept, but parts wise, very different. One small example. A 135 has four rods on the bottom of the landing gear truck that go from each axle and attach to the main lainding gear strut. One side is the centering cylinder and the other side is the snubber. On a 707 there is a single snubber that imounted on top of the truck and attaches to the mlg strut. On a 707 gear , all of the hydro lines run the length of the gear underneath and are protected by a shield that also runs the length. On a 135 the hydro lines are mounted to the sides. Also, if you check out this pic you will see most of these 707's missing their engines but their tails are sitting right next to them. Photos: Boeing 707-... Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net http://www.airliners.net/photo/USA--...157010cf1ed1ac http://www.airliners.net/photo/Pakis...b0c4474aec7314 It's hard to see the vast differences here because all you can see are the wheels and the torsion links primarily, but it's a small glimpse. Also when you talk about an HF antennae are you talking about the entire structure or just the actuall electronic component? I've seen HF Anntennaes swapped out on tankers and AWACS and all it is is removing a panel with about 50 screws, removing a few attatchment bolts on the box, and disconnecting some cannon plugs, and voila you're holdin a part worth more than your car.

Last edited by champpitbull2; 04-05-2011 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:59 PM   #46
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

It seems that the USAF are now suggesting that, subsequent to investigation of the wreckage and debriefing the crew, this F-15E may indeed have been shot down.
As yet no culprit has been identified, but the column of the 32nd Armoured Brigade the F-15E in question was attacking is known to have been protected by ZSU-23-4s, SA-8s and SA-18 & 24s.
I imagine more information will follow.
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:16 PM   #47
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Default Re: USAF F-15E crashed in Libya

Ouch, Its shocking for me as Lakenheath is about 2 hours from me!
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