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Old 01-29-2010, 02:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default New Russian Stealth Fighter

Just saw this about Russia's new stealth jet.......also if you read the article, notice how it says the U.S. has stopped buying the F-22..........what do I say to all this? Bring back the F-117 Nighthawk!

Russia's first stealth fighter makes maiden flight - Yahoo! News

What do you guys think?
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Old 01-29-2010, 06:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Russian Stealth Fighter

more photos can be found here
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Russian Stealth Fighter

They have the B2, F22's and soon, F35 so I can see that there is no room to reimplement the F117.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Russian Stealth Fighter

I know, but it would be cool to see them again.
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:41 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Russian Stealth Fighter

Yeah. The F117 got the best angles and I absolutely love the example that they painted with a american flag in its bottom.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Whether or not this thing can hang with an F-22, I don't know. What is more important is how will it match up against F-15's, F-16's, and F-18's. If it is half as dominant over them as the Raptor is, the F-22 numbers should be reconsidered. The F-35 will not be a truely stealthy platform because it will have to carry weapons externally in order to complete it's multi-role mission.
As far as the F-117, they retired it for a reason. As much as I love seeing those old planes fly, the F-117 outlived it's usefullness. It could only carry 2 bombs and zero air to air weapons. The F-22 can do this and so much more.

Rather then see the Thunderbirds, I would rather see the USAF maintain a squadron of classic planes that made the rounds of all the airshows. F-105, F-100, F-4, F-86, F-111, and more. Damn that would be cool.

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Old 01-30-2010, 12:44 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Russian Stealth Fighter

Interesting. I noted that the video mentionned it has been "developped in partnership with India". Anyone has more informations on this ?
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Russian Stealth Fighter

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Originally Posted by Mystère View Post
Interesting. I noted that the video mentionned it has been "developped in partnership with India". Anyone has more informations on this ?
This could mean they have made a financial contribution and commitment to purchase.
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by champpitbull2 View Post
Whether or not this thing can hang with an F-22, I don't know. What is more important is how will it match up against F-15's, F-16's, and F-18's. If it is half as dominant over them as the Raptor is, the F-22 numbers should be reconsidered. The F-35 will not be a truely stealthy platform because it will have to carry weapons externally in order to complete it's multi-role mission.
As far as the F-117, they retired it for a reason. As much as I love seeing those old planes fly, the F-117 outlived it's usefullness. It could only carry 2 bombs and zero air to air weapons. The F-22 can do this and so much more.

Rather then see the Thunderbirds, I would rather see the USAF maintain a squadron of classic planes that made the rounds of all the airshows. F-105, F-100, F-4, F-86, F-111, and more. Damn that would be cool.

I doubt it can stay up there with the Raptor....the F-35 can hardly stay up there.

And, yeah, I understand why they retired the F-117, but it would still be cool for them to use it as a stealth bomber alongside the B-2. I know it will never happen, but we can wish right?
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I doubt it can stay up there with the Raptor....the F-35 can hardly stay up there.

And, yeah, I understand why they retired the F-117, but it would still be cool for them to use it as a stealth bomber alongside the B-2. I know it will never happen, but we can wish right?
That's why I put in my little tid bit about the squadron of retired planes. Even though the USAF does fly a few F-4's around for that purpose, I doubt we'll see anything other then the F-4 which they still use as an aerial target. But we can wish.
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Russian Stealth Fighter

As much as I am a fan of Russian fighters I have to say this one is BUTT UGLY!! Nevertheless congrats to Russia and India for designing this aircraft.
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Old 10-06-2013, 12:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Russian Stealth Fighter

Why would you dig up a nearly four year old thread just to make this comment? To sell floor scales?
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Russian Stealth Fighter

bots are hilarious
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:22 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Russian Stealth Fighter

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bots are hilarious
Strangely enough, they're sorta contributing now.

I mean, I would have never thought of the MiG 1.44 ever being brought up by a bot when the topic isn't even about it, and there is no previous mention.
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Old 10-07-2013, 07:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I don't think it's a bot...every bot I've seen has either copied portions of other posts, made statements about their product or just spouted gibberish. This is actually mentioning events from today and indicating Bing, so it must be a person just perusing sites to drop his ads into.
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Old 11-21-2013, 02:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Interesting. I noted that the video mentionned it has been "developped in partnership with India". Anyone has more informations on this ?
The Russians and Indians are working on an economy-version of the PAK-FA. SO it should not be as capable as the PAK-FA (if that will be capable at all of course).

Russia needed Indian investment to pay for their developing of the PAK-FA, India needs a hight tech project for their indigenous aerospace industry. But apparently the Indian government is not impressed with the level of influence they are getting from Putin & co.

There are some new pictures of the PAK-FA out, it now looks like a shark (they say) or like a whale (my opinion)

The Aviationist Russia’s Fifth Generation Stealth Fighter Jet has got a new paint scheme. Inspired by sharks?
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Old 01-26-2014, 11:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Richard from Rotterdam View Post
The Russians and Indians are working on an economy-version of the PAK-FA. SO it should not be as capable as the PAK-FA (if that will be capable at all of course).

Russia needed Indian investment to pay for their developing of the PAK-FA, India needs a hight tech project for their indigenous aerospace industry. But apparently the Indian government is not impressed with the level of influence they are getting from Putin & co.

There are some new pictures of the PAK-FA out, it now looks like a shark (they say) or like a whale (my opinion)

The Aviationist Russia’s Fifth Generation Stealth Fighter Jet has got a new paint scheme. Inspired by sharks?
Apparently the Indians are not impressed with the new Russian stealth fighter.

Russian rubbish? India reportedly disappointed with stealth fighters from Moscow | Fox News
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Old 01-27-2014, 06:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Apparently the Indians are not impressed with the new Russian stealth fighter.

Russian rubbish? India reportedly disappointed with stealth fighters from Moscow | Fox News
I think a different, more reliable source (preferably a well regarded aviation or military site) would be helpful. Doing a search, this seems more like a rehash of a old story from 2010.

Of course, it must be a slow news-day for Rupert I guess to rehash a nearly 4 year old story.
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Old 01-27-2014, 10:22 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LOT 737-300 View Post
I think a different, more reliable source (preferably a well regarded aviation or military site) would be helpful. Doing a search, this seems more like a rehash of a old story from 2010.

Of course, it must be a slow news-day for Rupert I guess to rehash a nearly 4 year old story.
So are you telling me that I should not trust the story because of its content or because of your apparent dislike for Rupert Murdoch and Fox News?

I think you kinda showed your hand with your last post sport !
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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So are you telling me that I should not trust the story because of its content or because of your apparent dislike for Rupert Murdoch and Fox News?

I think you kinda showed your hand with your last post sport !
Not necessarily, it's just that FOX News has shown itself not to be honest with a lot of stories. It doesn't mean I necessarily like CNN or MSNBC, as they're also notorious for doing the same thing, and also why I show very little trust for them as well. At least RT makes you know that everyone they have on is totally full of crap or completely insane (like that former Canadian Defense official that claimed went out there, and told everything he knew about Aliens, including the fact that they were messing with our WiFi to mess with us, and that's why WiFi goes out.) You see, I don't trust most of the major news outlets all that much. Too partisan and always finding a way to make up or twist the truth.

There are more reliable sources to go for, that's all.

In other words, what I'm saying, it isn't necessarily a bad idea to check and see other sources to make sure this isn't a sensationalist work of fiction, which is a major issue plaguing major news media these days.

It isn't unheard of news networks spreading old news as if they were new weeks, or even months after they happened, and were widely reported on sites that covered those particular interest. I see it all the time in Space Exploration all the time.

You trying to show any comment critical of your glorious mirror universe Время as politically offensive shows where you stand as well with that post. If you showed more current news of this from other sources, be them avherald or a major publication you can get at a news stand, especially one that names names (otherwise, they could have talked to anyone they found off the street and call it an "unnamed source") you would have had a better time defending the credibility of the article. So far, I haven't seen that.
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Old 01-28-2014, 11:46 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Not necessarily, it's just that FOX News has shown itself not to be honest with a lot of stories. It doesn't mean I necessarily like CNN or MSNBC, as they're also notorious for doing the same thing, and also why I show very little trust for them as well. At least RT makes you know that everyone they have on is totally full of crap or completely insane (like that former Canadian Defense official that claimed went out there, and told everything he knew about Aliens, including the fact that they were messing with our WiFi to mess with us, and that's why WiFi goes out.) You see, I don't trust most of the major news outlets all that much. Too partisan and always finding a way to make up or twist the truth.

There are more reliable sources to go for, that's all.

In other words, what I'm saying, it isn't necessarily a bad idea to check and see other sources to make sure this isn't a sensationalist work of fiction, which is a major issue plaguing major news media these days.

It isn't unheard of news networks spreading old news as if they were new weeks, or even months after they happened, and were widely reported on sites that covered those particular interest. I see it all the time in Space Exploration all the time.

You trying to show any comment critical of your glorious mirror universe Время as politically offensive shows where you stand as well with that post. If you showed more current news of this from other sources, be them avherald or a major publication you can get at a news stand, especially one that names names (otherwise, they could have talked to anyone they found off the street and call it an "unnamed source") you would have had a better time defending the credibility of the article. So far, I haven't seen that.
Sorry buddy, but my skin is a lot thicker than that. If your aim was to try and offend me, you're going to have to put a lot more effort into it. I simply posted an article from a website I read (and we know you don't like the source) and you singled Rupert Murdoch by name which would indicate to me you have a bias against Fox News. You then came back with your second post and confirm your skewed-view of this article and then throw-in CNN and MSNBC more as an afterthought to try to come across as moderate.

Go back and research the sources within the attached Fox article. This doesn't have anything to do with domestic politics - this is disagreement between two countries over a fighter design that both countries have invested heavily into and neither country is the United States. Sure, I probably could have used an article from Aviation Week had I come across it first, but I used this instead and make no apologies.

And with all due respect to AvHearld - I've written articles on that website. Take from that what you will.

Good day.
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Old 01-29-2014, 01:53 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Sorry buddy, but my skin is a lot thicker than that. If your aim was to try and offend me, you're going to have to put a lot more effort into it. I simply posted an article from a website I read (and we know you don't like the source) and you singled Rupert Murdoch by name which would indicate to me you have a bias against Fox News. You then came back with your second post and confirm your skewed-view of this article and then throw-in CNN and MSNBC more as an afterthought to try to come across as moderate.

Go back and research the sources within the attached Fox article. This doesn't have anything to do with domestic politics - this is disagreement between two countries over a fighter design that both countries have invested heavily into and neither country is the United States. Sure, I probably could have used an article from Aviation Week had I come across it first, but I used this instead and make no apologies.

And with all due respect to AvHearld - I've written articles on that website. Take from that what you will.

Good day.
Let's see,
Quote:

Of course, it must be a slow news-day for Rupert I guess to rehash a nearly 4 year old story.
So are you telling me that I should not trust the story because of its content or because of your apparent dislike for Rupert Murdoch and Fox News?

I think you kinda showed your hand with your last post sport !
Yeah, you're clearly offended, sport. Either that or you've never heard of the saying "It must be a slow news day."

You should be careful with sources either way. Wikipedia is still FAR more reliable than pretty much any of our media news networks put togeather, YOU live in this country, YOU should know that.

Of course, with a title like "Russian Rubbish", there is no way that wasn't politically charged. So don't be trying to make me look like a bad guy because you did the equivalent of citing Wikipedia for a Graduate Thesis.

Here are some that do touch on this subject after I was able to find some names:
http://thediplomat.com/2014/01/the-h...nd-the-pak-fa/

And look, here is the source almost everyone is citing for this, maybe the one you should have used:
Russia can't deliver on Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft: IAF | Business Standard

I did run into a Indian defense forum discussing this very subject. A lot of replies have questioned the validity of the Source themselves. One person did link a blog in there that showed this may mean that there is more interest in the Rafael fighter and that these claims could be used to make the Russians offer it for a cheaper price or to help divert funds to Rafael. I can't blame them, the Rafael is a very good aircraft and I think would fit India very well until stealth aircraft become less expensive and timely to design and build.

Remember, it took at least 20 years to design the F-22 from inception to service, we're still running tests out on the F-35 (and it is very over budget, though a good aircraft from my understanding). Seeing some of the issues with the PAK FA hardly surprises me really. I remember mentioning those engines looked like they'd expose too much, and I can't say anything about Radar tech (though if Sukhoi developed a version for India to finish or to build on, I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentionally made to be less than par. Very few countries would give out the best versions of their tech to even their best allies.) Best I can say, we could possibly wait until 5 or 6 years until we see a proper production variant of the Pak F/A, with properly designed engine exhausts, and if it does have proper systems, I highly doubt that the Russian VVS and VMF would let people know, just like how some systems on US service aircraft are still pretty classified. It still is more or less still in the flight testing range, and I'm not even sure if the weapons systems are even properly tested yet.

Here is that thread if anyone wants to read, I only read up until the FOX News article was mentioned (since that's where the search took me), as that was what was linked, but this seems to go back to the beginning of the program between Russia and India.
Bharat Rakshak • View topic - PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

Either way, I think the PAK FA will end up with changes in its design. I've followed read enough of about Russian designs to know that they sometimes come with drastic changes by the time they enter production. So to say it is crap so early might not be too smart. I don't necessarily see it as the F-22 killer people make it out to be, but at least something that will do fine for a country that doesn't have a very rosy history in recent decades with it's almost equally armed neighbors (like India does with the PRC and Pakistan).
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Old 01-29-2014, 02:30 AM   #23 (permalink)
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What can we expect once the PAK-FA enters service once it is tested and matured, the kinks ironed out and design chmges made, software development brougt on etc?

Wcan expect the PAK-FA to have one of the best and most powerful multi mode phased array AESA radar, with conformal and rear facing aspects as well. That alone makes it a powerful adversary on its own.

We know it is at least as agile as the latest thrust vectoring Su35 as it has more advanced avionics and although a heavier bird has more power and thrust vectoring in the lateral and longitudinal axis, and able to vector each nozzle individually in a asymmetrical manner. So we know it is a powerful and extremely agile dogfighter - we're probably talking Typhoon / F22 sort of ballpark.

Engine wise expect big improvements on the current Flankers - not as good as current western cutting edge in terms of reliability or thrust vs unit weight or fuel efficiency but dramatically better than was the case 10 years ago.

Stealth wise I would be very surprised if the PAK-FA has stealth capabilities anything like what the F22 brings. The F35 isn't anything like as stealthy as an F22 and (as a guess) and the Russian latest tech would do well to be as good as the JSF I think (total conjecture).

Data linking leaps ahead of what it was but not in Typhoon/Rafale/F22 class.

The fall down on the PAK-FA would be initial reliability, high MX costs vs other non stealth Russian designs, build quality on early batches and engine life issues. Training and development programmes not mature yet and will take time to bed in. Tactics for users of the PAK-FA will be much changed vs what they are using right now and these too take time to develop and refine. F22, Rafale and Typhoon drivers have their tactics down and early adopters of the PAK-FA and the Chinese copycats will be at a tactical disadvantage for a while.

In terms of armament we know it will be slinging the latest super long range AAMs - at very long range the missile / radar / stealth combo means it will likely have the edge over any Western design. Long/mid range or shorter the Western designs fare better. Within the envelope of METEOR and AMRAAM the Western designs will have a edge, short range WVR the latest ASRAAM or AIM9X will have an advantage.

WVR one on one nothing can claim any sort of advantage on an F22. But thats not real world. The Luftwaffe and RAF have shown with the right tactics Typhoons can and have defeated F22s BVR and WVR. Flying line abreast is I understand the preferred method - the Typhoon's radar is able to partially negate the stealth advantage the F22 has.

One thing I am 100% sure about is that the Chinese stealth fighters will not get anywhere near the PAK-FA in any metric. If they were to go against latest block Typhoons or F22 I doubt they would fare well.

Is the PAK-FA an F22 killer? Depends on the tactical situation. It will be an extremely capable platform eventually. Russia, India and their allies may produce hundreds more of them than there are F22s and quantity has a unique quality all of its own. The fanboy bickering about what is better than what is childish - and ultimately futile. We all remember the stories from Red Flag of RAF Jags and Tonkas killing unaware USAF F15Cs because tactics and tactical situation allowed them to - the Jag or Tonka could never be described as a top A2A platform and never in the Eagle's class but in war and realistic war training things happen. You can't predict you can only fight smart and keep refining your tactics to allow you to fight on your terms not your enemy's.

For this reason we'll likely never see these mythical huge dogfights of dozens of each type closing into visual range and getting the claws out. The Americans won't fight that way and certainly not with an F22. But small skirmishes of four or six planes on a planned strike package flying along and their threat warning receivers going nuts as half or more explode mid air with no warning? Absolutely. That's how the F22 fights and it remains to be seen whether the PAK-FA will ultimately be used in the same way. It's design seems to suggest it will - as a footnote one might argue that the fight model we are discussing is a natural evolution of what the F15 and now later Flankers were designed to do.

Tactically although the F22 would have an advantage over anything else flying today one on one WVR the Americans train not to have to get into guns range. The F22s real strength for all the eye-popping maneuvers and peerless dogfighting capability is its BVR lethality. It seems evident to me the PAK-FA with that radar and those awesome, terrifying long range and super long range "undefendable" missiles is set up to be much the same.

So my point is - I don't think we'll ever see a PAK-FA go up against an F22 in the air but if they ever did they would do it at long long range where you can play your percentages. Anything closer or visual is a risk. You fight to minmise risk.

We'll never know exactly how good the very good looking Russian stealth jet is for some years yet but anyone writing it off or claiming to know specifics etc now is clearly wrong. Politics plays a part. My advise would be to enjoy it for its stunning looks and wait and see.
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:07 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Seeing the major problems the US still have in developing the JSF and the obvious much lower available budget the Russians have, I doubt we will see a significant fleet of PAK-FA that have a similar capability as the JSF or F-22 any time soon.
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:47 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Richard from Rotterdam View Post
Seeing the major problems the US still have in developing the JSF and the obvious much lower available budget the Russians have, I doubt we will see a significant fleet of PAK-FA that have a similar capability as the JSF or F-22 any time soon.

Agreed but what if you had 250% of the numbers of the F22 in an engagement but the aircraft you deploy (PAK-FA) are 70% as capable?
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:47 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Russian Stealth Fighter

Yeah that's a nice what-if, but the Russians will never be able to field 250% of the numbers of the F-22. They are already struggling to field their newest Flanker versions so there will be hardly a chance of the PAK-Fa ever reaching the numbers your are fantasising about.

For the Russians that's hardly an issue though as they are putting a lot of effort in their air defence systems. They say that their latest radars and missiles are able to detect and engage the F-22. Of course we don't know if the S-400 is actually capable of doing that, but it wouldn't surprise me.
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:16 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Richard from Rotterdam View Post
Yeah that's a nice what-if, but the Russians will never be able to field 250% of the numbers of the F-22. They are already struggling to field their newest Flanker versions so there will be hardly a chance of the PAK-Fa ever reaching the numbers your are fantasising about.

For the Russians that's hardly an issue though as they are putting a lot of effort in their air defence systems. They say that their latest radars and missiles are able to detect and engage the F-22. Of course we don't know if the S-400 is actually capable of doing that, but it wouldn't surprise me.
Give it ten years.

The Americans will never have more Raptors than they have now but how many PAK-FAs will India have in a decade? And how many Chinese copies will there be in the air? I agree the Russians probably won't have large numbers of PAK-FAs in ten years but I'd give you an evens bet they'll deploy more of those than the USAF have Raptors.

And 250% number was engagement specific - not in terms of overall fleets. A skirmish with a pair of Raptors could come up against five PAKs or the Chinese equivalent. The days of hundreds of fighters filling the sky for dominance are over. Raptors fight in fours or pairs.

As for the latest Flankers - AFAIK they are awaiting production ramp up on the latest model Flankers and are seeing better readiness from their Fullback new squadrons, numbers building.
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:32 PM   #28 (permalink)
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The Russians are taking delivery of about 100 military fixed wing aircraft per year (UAC, the holding company of Sukhoi among others) states on their website that in 2013 they planned to deliver 70 aircraft, not stating which though.

These numbers include both fighters and transports.
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Russian Stealth Fighter

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Originally Posted by Richard from Rotterdam View Post
The Russians are taking delivery of about 100 military fixed wing aircraft per year (UAC, the holding company of Sukhoi among others) states on their website that in 2013 they planned to deliver 70 aircraft, not stating which though.

These numbers include both fighters and transports.
It doesn't say how many older aircraft they're retiring, does it? Or how many of the fighters are actually training aircraft? Or how many of those aircraft are being returned from storage?
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:53 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Richard from Rotterdam View Post
The Russians are taking delivery of about 100 military fixed wing aircraft per year (UAC, the holding company of Sukhoi among others) states on their website that in 2013 they planned to deliver 70 aircraft, not stating which though.

These numbers include both fighters and transports.
Does this include refurb/upgrades for the early Su27s still in service? And are the Su25s getting an upgrade too?

I'd guess the 70 we are taking about would be a number of Fulbacks to allow them to roll over more of the Fencer strike wings. Some Su33s for the Navy and a few Su35s, although not in the numbers they would like just yet.

How many latest Mig29s are they taking?

Re transports, i dont know much about their plans here. Are they planning on upgrading their Il76 fleets to latest standard, re-engining etc, or are they buying new?
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:57 AM   #31 (permalink)
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It doesn't say how many older aircraft they're retiring, does it? Or how many of the fighters are actually training aircraft? Or how many of those aircraft are being returned from storage?
Thats what I thought. The early Su27s and Mig29s will be pretty much done now i would guess, they started retiring them a while back and i dont expect there are many around now. One of the issues facing both types was airframe longevity IIRC.

Lot of Frogfoots and Fencers to replace as well. Think all the Mig21s and 23s are gone even from the training wings now.

The new Yak130s are aarriving in numbers now so no need to hold onto them.
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Old 02-18-2014, 04:43 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Does this include refurb/upgrades for the early Su27s still in service? And are the Su25s getting an upgrade too?

I'd guess the 70 we are taking about would be a number of Fulbacks to allow them to roll over more of the Fencer strike wings. Some Su33s for the Navy and a few Su35s, although not in the numbers they would like just yet.

How many latest Mig29s are they taking?

Re transports, i dont know much about their plans here. Are they planning on upgrading their Il76 fleets to latest standard, re-engining etc, or are they buying new?
Since deliveries of the Fullbacks have started in 2008, the Russian AF received 32 ,not including 6 prototypes. Last year a new multi-year order has been placed which mentions 92 new Fullbacks to be delivered between 2014 and 2020.

On the MiG-29 front, the Russian AF has delayed an order for 37 new MiG-35s until after 2016. Instead they have ordered 16 MiG-29SMT's last year. I don't know the timespan of their deliveries.

Concerning the number of delivered aircraft, it is hard to discern between new-built or modernized aircraft.

On the transport-front the IL-76 is to be replaced by the IL-476. The one that has been delivered is as far as I know an old IL-76 airframe that had never been finished by the factory. Also, there is talk about reopening the production line of the An-124, in cooperation with Ukraine, where the factory is. The newest transports are also getting orders in (An-140 etc), but this all happens in really slow pace and very low numbers.

I'm not sure how the Yak-130 deliveries go, I believe the Russians have received about 40 so far.

You won't find MiG-21s or MiG-23 anymore, no Fitters either.

Russian Air Force Order of Battle

Have a look here for the current order of battle of the Russian air force, including numbers of jets.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:37 AM   #33 (permalink)
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How likely is it that the US and Russia (or India, China for that matter) would even fight a war against each other? Even during the Cold War, they never engaged each other directly and only fought proxy wars, which are I think are more likely to occur than a full scale war between two large powers. Super powers just can't afford to fight each other.

Chances are that the only action either fighter would see would be against third world air forces.

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Old 02-19-2014, 02:27 AM   #34 (permalink)
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War between China and the US is pretty much impossible. Wont happen. The Chinese are owed too much money and the trade imbalance is too great - they are on decent footing with Taiwan and arent likely to upset that by invading, which would draw the US into a limited war in the Taiwan Strait. Their dispute with Japan over the Senkaku islands wont amount to anything and the Japanese would batter them if it did without the US's help.

China and India? More likely but still astronomically unlikely.

But how about in 20 years time where the (speculated) Nigerian civil war spills over and a UN peacekeeping force is engaged by Nigerian and Angolan Alliance Su35s or F35s or PAKs (acquired second hand) and an air war breaks out between F35s, Raptors, Flankers, PAKs and a lot of drones.

Or North Korea acquire some Chinese stealths and it all goes off with South Korea after a series of failed coups and uprisings in the North?
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Old 02-19-2014, 09:01 AM   #35 (permalink)
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A fourth or fifth generation fighter in a third world airforce would not be as effective as it should be. Spares, fuel, training, tactics, maintenance, available facilities are all important to ensure the fighter (and pilot) can perform at its best. For example, it is very clear which side would have won had Iran's F-14s engaged with US F-14s. In the same way, you'd expect Russian Su-30s and -35s to outperform Indonesian/Angolan/Venezuelan Su-30s and -35s. It's clearly not a fair fight.
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:46 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Russian Stealth Fighter

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Originally Posted by atomicfungus View Post
How likely is it that the US and Russia (or India, China for that matter) would even fight a war against each other? Even during the Cold War, they never engaged each other directly and only fought proxy wars, which are I think are more likely to occur than a full scale war between two large powers. Super powers just can't afford to fight each other.

Chances are that the only action either fighter would see would be against third world air forces.
Well, the Soviets and the Chinese had some small scale border skirmishes through the 60s and early part of the 70s as part of the Soviet-Sino split. Not sure how much of it was in the air, but defiantly a lot of it was on the ground.

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A fourth or fifth generation fighter in a third world airforce would not be as effective as it should be. Spares, fuel, training, tactics, maintenance, available facilities are all important to ensure the fighter (and pilot) can perform at its best. For example, it is very clear which side would have won had Iran's F-14s engaged with US F-14s. In the same way, you'd expect Russian Su-30s and -35s to outperform Indonesian/Angolan/Venezuelan Su-30s and -35s. It's clearly not a fair fight.
We also have to consider that fighters that either the US or Russia exports are equipped with equipment that is more antiquated and not as good as what the US or Russia would use in their own example. Of course, if the country has it's own well developed arms industry, they can always retrofit improved equipment. The Israelis do with a ton of their equipment, as well as for other countries.
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