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Old 03-19-2016, 08:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

A FlyDubai Boeing 738 crashed on approach to the airport in Rostov-on-Don. All 62 people aboard were killed.
It seems to me that the captain and or powers that be caused this senseless and tragic crash.

All 62 aboard Dubai airliner killed in crash in south Russia
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Old 03-19-2016, 09:51 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

Very sad event, my condolences go out to the families of the victims.. As the two recorders have been discovered already, it will hopefully give us a more detailed picture of what happend there..
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Old 03-19-2016, 10:23 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

RIP to the crash victims. Thoughts and prayers go out to their loved ones. I read something that the plane's tail clipped the runway. All the best to the crash investigators in determining the chain of events that led to this tragic event.
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Old 03-19-2016, 10:57 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

Well,that is not pleasant news to awaken to. Condolences to the countless people this will significantly affect.
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Old 03-19-2016, 11:07 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Flight 981 was scheduled to depart from Dubai International Airport at 21:45 local time (UTC+4) on 18 March 2016 and arrive at Rostov-on-Don Airport at 1:20 local time (UTC+3) the next day. It departed from Dubai at 22:20 local time (18:20 GMT). At 01:41 local time, the aircraft aborted its first landing attempt in poor visibility and was placed in a holding pattern near the airport for nearly two hours. Between Flight 981's first and second landing attempts, another aircraft made three landing attempts before diverting. Flight 981 crashed during a go-around after aborting its approach during its second attempt to land on runway 22. At 03:42 local time the air traffic controller (ATC) of the airport alerted the local emergency services about the crash.

According to ATC communications published online, before the aircraft was established on the localiser, the instrument which indicates the centreline of the runway when pilots are landing using instruments rather than visually, pilots reported to ATC that in case they will need to make another go-around, they will climb to flight level 80—approximately 8,000 feet (2,400 m).They then reported that they were established on the localiser and continued their descent. At 5.5 kilometres (3.4 mi) before the runway threshold, when the aircraft was at 1500 feet, it started climbing again. After reaching the altitude of 4,050 ft (1,230 m), it began a rapid descent with a vertical speed reaching more than 21,000 ft/min and crashed close to the runway less than a minute later, at 03:42 local time. ATC records appeared to show that the aircraft was going around moments before it crashed. The pilots reported their intention to abort the landing with "Going around, Skydubai 981". ATC advised Flight 981 to switch to another air traffic controller ("Skydubai 981, contact Rostov Radar on 121.2"). Flight 981 acknowledged this with "121.2, bye-bye", which was their final transmission.

According to the official reports, the aircraft crashed 253 metres (830 ft) left of the runway. During a press conference, the local MES chief stated that "the plane completely disintegrated at the very beginning of the runway". The Federal Ministry of Emergency Situations reported that the aircraft struck the ground with its wing before the crash. A CCTV video uploaded online shortly after the crash shows an aircraft making a steep descent into the ground, followed by an explosion, although the video's authenticity has not been confirmed. Several witnesses report having seen a flash of light several seconds before the crash, which is also seen in the video:

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Old 03-19-2016, 12:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

sigh, it is 2016, runway still not equipped with sufficient surveillance HD cameras. most accidents are at TO/landing, the footage is very important for investigation.
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Old 03-19-2016, 06:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

I was a bit confused; someone had earlier posted that a 'Russian' Plane had crashed?? Quite sure the plane that crashed was from the UAE and not from Russia. Glad that fazeman posted this more accurate thread. Cheers! T7
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Old 03-19-2016, 07:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

981 was the same flight number of the Turkish DC-10 which crashed outside Paris in 1974. Since then TK have changed the number to 1981.



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Old 03-19-2016, 07:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjabbasi View Post
981 was the same flight number of the Turkish DC-10 which crashed outside Paris in 1974. Since then TK have changed the number to 1981.
Total souls lost in this single plane crash = 346. That's a very high number. I was unaware that is No. 4 on deadliest aviation crashes in history.
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Old 03-19-2016, 09:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

Chicago,Tenerife. The most people on one plane lost I would think would have been the JAL B747 that had the pressure bulkead blow out. 520 out of 524 I believe was the horrendous number lost.
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Old 03-19-2016, 09:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

Flight 191 coincidentally is not a good flight number.

Flight 191

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Flight Number 191 may refer to:
  • X-15 Flight 191 (1967), or X-15 Flight 3-65-97, experimental test plane, broke apart in flight, killing its test pilot
  • Prinair Flight 191 (1972), crashed at Mercedita Airport in Ponce, Puerto Rico, killing five people
  • American Airlines Flight 191 (1979), crashed at Chicago O'Hare Airport, killing 273
  • Delta Air Lines Flight 191 (1985), crashed at Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport, killing 137
  • Comair Flight 191 (2006), or Flight 5191, crashed at Blue Grass Airport, Lexington, Kentucky, killing 49
  • JetBlue Airways Flight 191 (2012), a flight from New York John F. Kennedy airport to Las Vegas, Nev. diverted to Amarillo, Tex. after the captain had an alleged panic attack, was locked out of the flight deck by the First Officer, and was restrained by passengers
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Old 03-19-2016, 10:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

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Originally Posted by Kitty Hawk 1903 View Post
Chicago,Tenerife. The most people on one plane lost I would think would have been the JAL B747 that had the pressure bulkead blow out. 520 out of 524 I believe was the horrendous number lost.
Yes, JAL Flight 123.
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Old 03-20-2016, 02:17 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

Considering the god awful weather conditions in the area, my gut instinct is that cool heads should have prevailed by diverting the plane like the others did.
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Old 03-20-2016, 10:03 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

I'm going to take the professional route and wait till more info is known before commenting.Al
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Old 03-20-2016, 11:36 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

Please keep in mind,I am not a pilot,and I don't have a clue what happened here. I have read a Aeroflot flight tried the approach and then flew to its alternate. This flight circled for approx 2 hours. That is a very long time to wait to land. HOPING the weather gets better. If they circled for two hours,did they burn the alternate airport fuel? Sure flying to your alternate is inconvenient for all concerned,but I think it would have been a good idea. The Aeroflot Captain thought so,why not the Fly Dubai Captain? Again,very sad for the people lost,and all the families and friends.
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Old 03-21-2016, 09:33 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

Fetzer valve was probably sticking. Heard there was a shortage of 3-in-1 oil and gauze pads over there. Will be interesting to read the final report.
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Old 03-21-2016, 11:16 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

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Originally Posted by Kitty Hawk 1903 View Post
Flight 191 coincidentally is not a good flight number.

Flight 191

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Flight Number 191 may refer to:
  • X-15 Flight 191 (1967), or X-15 Flight 3-65-97, experimental test plane, broke apart in flight, killing its test pilot
  • Prinair Flight 191 (1972), crashed at Mercedita Airport in Ponce, Puerto Rico, killing five people
  • American Airlines Flight 191 (1979), crashed at Chicago O'Hare Airport, killing 273
  • Delta Air Lines Flight 191 (1985), crashed at Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport, killing 137
  • Comair Flight 191 (2006), or Flight 5191, crashed at Blue Grass Airport, Lexington, Kentucky, killing 49
  • JetBlue Airways Flight 191 (2012), a flight from New York John F. Kennedy airport to Las Vegas, Nev. diverted to Amarillo, Tex. after the captain had an alleged panic attack, was locked out of the flight deck by the First Officer, and was restrained by passengers
Yikes! I find that quite eerie with the numbers 191. Maybe the airlines should stop using that particular set of numbers.
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Old 03-23-2016, 12:29 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

New video of the crash.



LiveLeak.com - Another View of FlyDubai 737 Crash
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Old 03-23-2016, 01:07 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Oh man! After viewing that video, it looks like the plane just smashed into the ground at a very high velocity. Sure didn't look like an attempted landing? What the heck is going on? Some reports say the black boxes were too damaged? Based on that video Mr. Tupolev just posted, I can see why that is the case. Dropped 3,000 feet in 15 seconds = plane disintegrated upon impact.

Crash Experts Stymied by FlyDubai's Damaged Black Boxes - ABC News

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Old 03-23-2016, 08:03 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

From what I just heard, overworked, fatigued pilots had a part to play in this.



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Old 03-23-2016, 09:34 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
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From what I just heard, overworked, fatigued pilots had a part to play in this.
Aircraft should have diverted to secondary airport,
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:42 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Aircraft should have diverted to secondary airport,
Agree with you on that. I wonder if the control tower had informed the FlyDubai pilots the actions of the other planes/pilots that diverted to the other airport with safer landing conditions?

Several planes had trouble landing at the airport at the time of the crash, with one trying to land three times before giving up and diverting to another airport, experts said.
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Old 03-23-2016, 10:00 AM   #23 (permalink)
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This maybe a dumb butt question, but is there a rule/regulation that after 2 aborted attempts to land = commercial airline pilots must immediately divert to secondary airport? Or can the pilot take as many shots/kicks at the bucket in trying to land?
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Old 03-23-2016, 11:11 AM   #24 (permalink)
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This maybe a dumb butt question, but is there a rule/regulation that after 2 aborted attempts to land = commercial airline pilots must immediately divert to secondary airport? Or can the pilot take as many shots/kicks at the bucket in trying to land?
Pilots like everyone else,if you are fatigued,you simply aren't going to make the best decisions like you would if alert. I understand an Aeroflot flight ahead of then tried once to land,and then went to its alternate. For the life of me,I can't understand why the accident airplane didn't do the same?
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Old 03-23-2016, 11:25 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Agree with you on that. I wonder if the control tower had informed the FlyDubai pilots the actions of the other planes/pilots that diverted to the other airport with safer landing conditions?

Several planes had trouble landing at the airport at the time of the crash, with one trying to land three times before giving up and diverting to another airport, experts said.
This was an airline management decision not to divert.
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Old 03-23-2016, 11:41 AM   #26 (permalink)
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This was an airline management decision not to divert.
WOW! You mean to say that the suits/folks over at FlyDubai instructed/ordered the captain to do whatever it takes to get that plane down at that airport that was experiencing extremely dangerous weather?

That is just crazy! Yep, very easy to give those orders from their comfy offices in Dubai, while the 62 people on board are being helplessly battered around in the skies! What has happened to humanity?

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Old 03-23-2016, 02:13 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mjabbasi View Post
From what I just heard, overworked, fatigued pilots had a part to play in this.
Hi Moin,

Where did you hear that? Any specific source/website? Reason for asking = they are tight-lipped in Dubai when it concerns whistle-blowing.

I would have to agree with your statement, due to this airline being a so-called 'budget/penny pinching airline; which is ironic in a way, due to how rich Dubai presents itself to the world'. I take it that poor working conditions/regulations for this particular airline do not come up at all in the press/media over in Dubai, since the government/rulers of Dubai do NOT have to answer to anyone. We all know what can happen to folks who wish to tempt fate against the rulers in Dubai.

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Old 03-23-2016, 09:08 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Pilots ‘worked to death’: Flydubai whistleblower says fatigue-related crash predicted (RT EXCLUSIVE)

An accident involving a Flydubai plane was inevitable, a former Flydubai captain told RT on condition of anonymity. He revealed that pilots are forced to work while exhausted, while saying he had been “worked to death” despite complaints.
READ MORE: Pilot error, lost fuel, terrorism? Experts discuss possible causes of Flight FZ981 crash

Speaking to RT in Doha, the former pilot said Flydubai’s top management was aware of the issue, but had done nothing to resolve it. “When I was still at the company, one of the last things I told management is that there would be an accident because of pilot fatigue,” he said.

The reason for fatigue is simple – pilots are being repeatedly overworked and not given enough time to sleep between flights.

The whistleblower provided documents showing that pilots, junior pilots in particular, are being assigned multiple flight shifts in a row. He argued that the crew often does not have enough time for sleep readjustment.

Leaked flight log of the co-captain of flight FZ981 Alejandro Cruz Alava
“Everybody at the company has these dangerous shifts from day flight to night flight, and then back to a day flight, and then back to a night flight, and it has definitely been a big issue for a long time.”

‘Fatigue a contributing factor to Flydubai’s Boeing crash in Rostov-on-Don’

The former captain added he was sure that sleep deprivation had contributed to the Flydubai flight FZ981 crash in the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don, which killed all 62 passengers and crew on board.

“The way that [Flydubai] … builds the schedules does not account for circadian rhythm … they do not allow pilots to get the right amount of rest, or the proper rest before a flight, and that is exactly what both of these pilots were, the situation that they were in, for sure,” the pilot said.

RT also obtained the flight log of the co-captain of flight FZ981, which revealed that Alejandro Cruz Alava had worked for 11 days with only one day off prior to the crash. The whistleblower commented on the documents, stating that Alava had been transferred from day flights to night flights without being given enough time to readjust his sleep pattern.

READ MORE: ‘She’s not coming back, but I keep hoping’: Families & friends grieve for Flydubai crash victims

“[Alava] was working eleven days in a row with the exception of one day off, which was Tuesday March 15th,” the former pilot said. “There’s is no doubt he was fatigued and exhausted for this flight ... that definitely was a contributing factor, no matter how [Flydubai] may try to deny it.”

Moreover, the captain of the flight, Aristos Socratous, had reportedly filed paperwork containing his resignation because of the unbearable schedule, and only had a few weeks left to fly, according to unnamed colleagues of the deceased.

“The reason that the captain was resigning is because of the schedules, he just couldn’t do it anymore. He was too tired, going to work fatigued, and that is actually why he had resigned.”

An Air Safety Report (ASR) from September 2015 seen by RT shows that many pilots reported showing up for work feeling exhausted and overworked.

One of the submissions read: “I called in fatigued today for a 0125 local report. Prior to this I had 10 days duty with one day off. Those duties consisted of two 18-30 hour rest periods, a layover, 2 very early reports and 2 long double sector days. The combination of this has meant that I have had very little quality sleep throughout this roster period. I would also contribute the previous month’s roster, where I was roster for 92 hours, a contributing factor to fatigue that I am feeling.”

Another submission said: “Called fatigued … Was unable to get sufficient sleep before start of standby, albeit all efforts made … Issue is if I am called off standby for a long duty … that’s potentially well over 24 hours no sleep operating a flight.”

Flydubai referred to pilots who complained as ‘prima donnas’

The problem of fatigue has been well reported within the airline, and most of the pilots foresaw the possibility of a crash due to over-exhaustion. The former pilot cited an internal survey that asked “Do you think there’s going to be a crash?”

“Over 80% of the pilots that participated … said yes, there will be a crash at Flydubai. And it’s unbelievable, I mean they knew this was coming, they absolutely knew it and of course they will blame it on the pilots.”

READ MORE: ‘No worries, they were Russians’: Latvian police officer under fire over Flydubai crash ‘joke’

Rather than trying to fix the problem, Flydubai reportedly created a culture that shamed pilots for feeling tired, calling them “prima donnas” if they complained.

“I know when I was still with Flydubai there were meetings every two weeks with the chief pilot … In most of those meetings [sleep deprivation] was always brought up and in fact in one of the meetings, the chief pilot referred to us as a bunch of prima donnas, like we complain too much, that’s exactly what he said. He said, ‘you guys are just a bunch of prima donnas.’”

Aviation experts inspect the flight recorder from the crashed Boeing 737-800 Flight FZ981 operated by Dubai-based budget carrier Flydubai, in Moscow, Russia, March 20, 2016. © Interstate Aviation Committee
Even worse, is that this type of hectic schedule is technically legal. “A lot of things legal that are just wrong, so [the airline] did have a legal schedule but it was not a healthy schedule,” the whistleblower said.

Moreover, the safety culture within the airline was poor, he said, citing an incident when Flydubai shipped chemical oxygen generators on an aircraft from their maintenance base to Dubai and then covered it up.

Reports of pilots falling asleep while flying

Falling asleep while flying has happened before at Flydubai, and sometimes even went unreported.

“I remember one report, when I still worked there, a pilot filed a safety report saying that him and another pilot fell asleep after taking off from one of the out stations and they were probably asleep for about eight minutes … I know that sounds crazy but it is extremely easy to fall asleep. It’s the same noise level and it’s quite boring, and the autopilot is on,” the former captain said. In addition, flying fatigue makes any pilot more vulnerable, he added.

The consequences for falling asleep at Flydubai are none at all, according to the former captain.

“There have been people report[ing] that they have completely fallen asleep at the controls at Flydubai and their company doesn’t do anything,” he said.

At other airlines, reports of sleeping during a flight usually lead to medical examinations, with the doctor particularly on the lookout for chronic fatigue and sleep apnea.

In giving his reasons for speaking out, the former pilot said people need to be aware of what is going on behind the scenes at Flydubai.

“It’s ridiculous that there’s been an aviation industry for so long and this stuff is still going on. And you hear about people being worked to death. I had some months at Flydubai where I really felt like I was being worked to death. And I just couldn’t do it. [People] buy an airplane ticket and they assume that they are safe on the airplane, but the way that an airline like Flydubai rosters their pilots, it’s not safe. It’s not safe at all,” he said.
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:29 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: FlyDubai B738 Crashes in Russia

It's been brought to attention before that certain Middle Eastern carriers manipulate block times to allow the crews to fly over the maximum allowed hours, however those reports never gained traction. Now that being said, I would still feel very confident flying with these carriers but changes need to be made and it's unfortunate that it will take this accident to help that. Obviously these reports are speculation and not all may be true but it does ask some important questions.
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Old 03-23-2016, 09:56 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Wow! I really appreciate the post from Mr. Tupolev on the whistle blowing stories. That just boggles my mind how that is condoned; especially when airlines should be striving to make flying more safer/secure in light of the events with MH370.
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