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Old 12-29-2015, 12:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

I've always found it fascinating how airlines try to fit the best aircraft into their route network to provide the best, most efficient service. I think its cool that some airlines are using 757s on transatlantic flights, mostly on "thinner" routes. It gives them the flexibility to fly more nonstop flights to more cities, but these routes sometimes stretch the range of the 757.

Now that the 757s are filling a role they weren't really designed for, and they are close to retirement, it begs the question of what aircraft can replace it? The A321 NEO will have shorter range than the 757, and the 737MAX is shorter still.

It sounds like Boeing has warmed up to the idea of building a replacement, but they haven't said much about what it will be. They do know they want to keep the development costs low since they don't have to pass on high costs to the airlines.

Since the 757 is doing an ok job, an improvement in range and fuel efficiency should be a good start. The other issue is just that the planes are old, so a new airframe would help. So, I wouldn't be surprised if they just do an upgrade to the 757 design, replacing the wings and engines with a newer design like the 737MAX and 777-8/9

What do you guys think?
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Old 12-29-2015, 03:01 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

I love the 757. It's one of my favorite airplanes, so I'm kind of hoping Boeing decides to offer an updated version with new engines. This would ensure the 757 family is flying for at least another 30+ years. From what I gather, though, Boeing has been dismissive of this idea, and the market between the longest variant of the 737MAX and the 787-8 is a niche one, to be sure. And on the other hand, it would be cool to see an entirely new design. Either way, it will be interesting to observe.
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Old 12-29-2015, 10:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

Yeah, apparently they were very dismissive, since they only sold about 1100 757s when they were in production. But it sounds like they are coming around to the idea. This article suggests that Boeing could use the new narrowbody aircraft to get a jump on designing the all-new 737 that is set for 2030

Why a Boeing 757 Replacement Is Probably Coming -- The Motley Fool
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

One of the most uncomfortable flights I ever took was on a Air France 757. Paris to NYC, almost 9 hours due to a severe headwind, massive turbulence, my entertainment system broken and my legs crushed (I'm 6'2) on that flying sardine can that looked like it was from 1950s.

Its a rare sight on the transatlantic route now, but because I cross the Atlantic often I gladly pay more now to avoid getting put on a 757.

After that experience, I am so glad the 767/777/Airbus series is replacing it.

Last edited by mmarsh; 12-30-2015 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 12-30-2015, 10:39 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

I'm also 6'2" and I try to avoid it too on the long flights. I just think its cool, from an economics standpoint, how it fits into their route networks. I like a big widebody jet with some more room to move around that doesn't feel so small, even though your seat space might be the same.
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:02 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

I also wonder how someone like myself 6'4' even fits in those small economy class seats with my big butt... But it does help a lot if you fly premium economy or what KLM calls economy comfort, especially if it's a long distance flight to Europe or Asia...
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Old 12-30-2015, 11:08 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

Yeah... I can't afford premium economy but I'm planning a trip for 2016. Not sure where we're going yet, but I want to go somewhere far away with some cool flights. I'm considering the US carriers because they all offer an extra legroom seat for about $100 extra per leg. I think some foreign carriers offer that too but I can't remember which ones
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Old 12-30-2015, 01:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

I think whatever they do at this point will be too little, too late.
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Old 12-30-2015, 06:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh View Post
One of the most uncomfortable flights I ever took was on a Air France 757. Paris to NYC, almost 9 hours due to a severe headwind, massive turbulence, my entertainment system broken and my legs crushed (I'm 6'2) on that flying sardine can that looked like it was from 1950s.

Its a rare sight on the transatlantic route now, but because I cross the Atlantic often I gladly pay more now to avoid getting put on a 757.

After that experience, I am so glad the 767/777/Airbus series is replacing it.
Air France operated 757s?

But yeah, I've never flown on a 757 transatlantic flight, and I don't think I'd enjoy it much, either, if sitting in coach.

Last edited by Mike777; 12-30-2015 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 12-31-2015, 07:41 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

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Air France operated 757s?

But yeah, I've never flown on a 757 transatlantic flight, and I don't think I'd enjoy it much, either, if sitting in coach.
Upon further reflection, I think you are correct.

I think it was DELTA not AIR FRANCE that trip, but it was definitely was a 757. I remember because I specifically looked at the boarding card to make a mental note never to fly on one of these again.
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Old 01-01-2016, 01:38 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

I'm not an expert on the industry but it seems like they only started regularly flying them on transatlantic flights in the last 5-10 years, and I think I read an article that talked about it. Its because they're relatively fuel efficient and they can fill the seats easily. So its sort of filling a new role it wasn't designed for. The 757 replaced the 727 in the sense that it was also intended to operate on short runways. The A321 can't do what the 757 does. Not as efficient as an A321 but the A321 doesn't have the range. Then again, the 757 is really pushing it. In that article I read a while back, they talked about how a lot of the 757s have to make fuel stops in Iceland or Nova Scotia on the westbound flights when they're fighting strong jetstream winds in the winter months.

As for the seating, I'd rather have a big widebody for a long flight too, but direct flights and cheaper fares are nice too.

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Old 01-02-2016, 05:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

757: "flying sardine can that looked like it was from 1950s" All Boeing narrow bodies viewed from where the passengers sit are indeed, 707s from the 1950s. They may be doing the same work more efficiently with two engines, and better navigation aids, but back in tourist class, they still are 1950s planes - not even that - legroom and personal space have been eliminated. But then we want lower airfares, and that's what we're getting. Up, up, and away, Doug
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

I have a special affection for the 757 and feel it is bashed a lot because of how the airlines configure it, not because it is a 757.

What is most interesting to me is that this plane was well ahead of its time considering that even now the 321 NEO may be able to match the performance of the 757.

The only thing that the 321 has over the Boeing narrow bodies is the nominal width of the cabin.

It is unfortunate that the 757 line was shut down before these technological advances were able to be applied to it.

Imagine if it was still in production, with all the technical advancements today incorporated in to it, the 757 would leave the 321 in the dust.
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Old 01-03-2016, 12:58 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

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I have a special affection for the 757 and feel it is bashed a lot because of how the airlines configure it, not because it is a 757.

What is most interesting to me is that this plane was well ahead of its time considering that even now the 321 NEO may be able to match the performance of the 757.

The only thing that the 321 has over the Boeing narrow bodies is the nominal width of the cabin.

It is unfortunate that the 757 line was shut down before these technological advances were able to be applied to it.

Imagine if it was still in production, with all the technical advancements today incorporated in to it, the 757 would leave the 321 in the dust.
Agreed! And yeah, we want the cheap air fares so the airlines will configure their planes as densely as possible. Its not Boeing's fault... except maybe for the narrower cabin width than the Airbus.

The other thing the 757 has over the Airbus is the shorter field capability. They seem to be using the 757 a lot these days for "long, thin routes", or medium-long haul routes without a lot of passengers... but really, the 757 was intended to replace the 727 as the jet that can fly into short airfields. But the 757 could carry more passengers and burned a lot less fuel. From what I understand, thats why the 757 has big engines and lots of slats and flaps. Imagine if the 757 didn't have those big engines... it could probably way out-range an A321
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Old 01-03-2016, 02:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

Doesn't the 757 already out range the 321.

That is why it is used on so many ETOPS flights that the 321 will just be growing into.
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Old 01-03-2016, 02:34 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mike777 View Post
Air France operated 757s?

But yeah, I've never flown on a 757 transatlantic flight, and I don't think I'd enjoy it much, either, if sitting in coach.
Guys, cramped coach seating is not designed into an aircraft, it's by design of the airline itself. It doesn't matter if you fly on a 757 or an A380, if the airline decides on a sardine can layout then that's what you get. There seems to some misconception that larger aircraft have more generous leg room, it ain't necessarily so, nor is not the case either. At the end of the day you still only get one seat to sit on. I've been on 757's with all kinds of seat pitches, never blamed the aircraft type when it gets a bit tight and I'm 6'1 myself.
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Old 01-03-2016, 02:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

But back on topic, I would love it if Boeing brought something out that had that classic 757 look, but with modern 787 style technologies. Personally I think they ought to design an all new narrow body range a-la-A320 family to replace the 737/757 capacity ranges. The 737 design can only be modified so far...
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Old 01-03-2016, 06:30 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

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Guys, cramped coach seating is not designed into an aircraft, it's by design of the airline itself. It doesn't matter if you fly on a 757 or an A380, if the airline decides on a sardine can layout then that's what you get. There seems to some misconception that larger aircraft have more generous leg room, it ain't necessarily so, nor is not the case either. At the end of the day you still only get one seat to sit on. I've been on 757's with all kinds of seat pitches, never blamed the aircraft type when it gets a bit tight and I'm 6'1 myself.
Yes, we get that. But there's more to the equation than just seat pitch/leg room. For instance, I find the more spacious cabin and 2 aisles of a widebody more pleasant on a long-haul flight. And depending on the airline, there's a good chance that a widebody will be much newer than a 757, with a cleaner and more modern interior, perhaps better IFE, etc. Also, with a widebody, there's likely to be a better chance of getting an aisle or exit row seat, and perhaps a better chance of the flight not being booked to capacity which could mean opting for a better seat once boarded or having an empty seat next to you. And more lavs on a widebody, too. So again, there's more to this discussion than mere seat pitch and lots of reasons to prefer a widebody over a narrowbody for a transatlantic flight. But you're right that widebodies aren't immune from "sardine can" seating.
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Old 01-03-2016, 08:05 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Doesn't the 757 already out range the 321.

That is why it is used on so many ETOPS flights that the 321 will just be growing into.
Yes, it does but only by a a few hundred miles. I just meant that it might out range it by a lot more if it hadn't been designed for shorter runways that require more thrust.
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Old 01-04-2016, 05:58 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

LMAO that soo many B-fanboys say that the 757 is so fuel-efficient and modern these days. The 757 is a design from the 1980s (the study for the 757 started in the late 70s..) and the airplanes are phased-out around the world since years because they are.. ...they are inefficient and expensive to operate. Most passenger airlines got rid of their 757 and those who still operate 757 have replacements on order already.. Only US airlines seem to replace it slower, but they are replacing them. Ten years ago it was reported that Boeing destroyed the tools needed to build 757, so we'll never see a re-engined 757 or something similar.. The 757 only plays a role for cargo airlines in the future that want to replace worn out freighters like the 727.. It's like asking: Boeing 717 replacement on the way? Re-engined? C'mon.. Boeing will come up with a new generation of single-aisle aircraft that will be an all-new improvement to what we had before.. Just like the 727 was replaced by the 757 or more recently, the 767 was replaced by the 787..
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Old 01-04-2016, 12:46 PM   #21 (permalink)
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LMAO that soo many B-fanboys say that the 757 is so fuel-efficient and modern these days. The 757 is a design from the 1980s (the study for the 757 started in the late 70s..) and the airplanes are phased-out around the world since years because they are.. ...they are inefficient and expensive to operate. Most passenger airlines got rid of their 757 and those who still operate 757 have replacements on order already.. Only US airlines seem to replace it slower, but they are replacing them. Ten years ago it was reported that Boeing destroyed the tools needed to build 757, so we'll never see a re-engined 757 or something similar.. The 757 only plays a role for cargo airlines in the future that want to replace worn out freighters like the 727.. It's like asking: Boeing 717 replacement on the way? Re-engined? C'mon.. Boeing will come up with a new generation of single-aisle aircraft that will be an all-new improvement to what we had before.. Just like the 727 was replaced by the 757 or more recently, the 767 was replaced by the 787..
I wouldn't call myself a Boeing fanboy but I think you might be referring to me. I like a lot of airbus aircraft and even in this thread I acknowledged that the airbus narrow bodies are wider and more fuel efficient than Boeings. I meant that airlines have shifted the remaining 757s away from domestic routes where the A319/320/321 and 737 are far more efficient, and started using them more on these transatlantic flights to Western Europe. They are "efficient" only because they can fly full planes on smaller routes where a wide body would burn more fuel and have empty seats. Again, it's not as efficient as an A321 but the airbus doesn't have the range. If it wasn't for the range and short field capability, the 757 would be completely outclassed by more modern designs. The point is that it's a niche aircraft.
As for a replacement, i figured a redesign was a possibility only because Boeing doesn't expect to sell a whole lot and they want to keep development costs as low as possible. A new aircraft would be better though, for sure.
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Old 01-05-2016, 04:04 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I wouldn't call myself a Boeing fanboy but I think you might be referring to me. I like a lot of airbus aircraft and even in this thread I acknowledged that the airbus narrow bodies are wider and more fuel efficient than Boeings. I meant that airlines have shifted the remaining 757s away from domestic routes where the A319/320/321 and 737 are far more efficient, and started using them more on these transatlantic flights to Western Europe. They are "efficient" only because they can fly full planes on smaller routes where a wide body would burn more fuel and have empty seats. Again, it's not as efficient as an A321 but the airbus doesn't have the range. If it wasn't for the range and short field capability, the 757 would be completely outclassed by more modern designs. The point is that it's a niche aircraft.
As for a replacement, i figured a redesign was a possibility only because Boeing doesn't expect to sell a whole lot and they want to keep development costs as low as possible. A new aircraft would be better though, for sure.
I think you are overrating the use of transatlantic service of the 757. If you look at Germany and take the two airlines that operated 757 transatlantic for a period of time lately, DL and UA - I can show you the develpoment. CO/UA operated 757 to TXL and HAM. They did this because they needed to find a solution to fill the gap that the huge delay of the 787 left for them. For example TXL was operated by 762. CO/UA decided to retire them and to switch them to 757 because they didn't want any new 767 as compensation, like other airlines agreed to take. After installing the 757 on these routes, tickets sales were far from excellent, because passengers preferred to take a UA 772 or 764 from FRA/MUC instead. Today the 787 are delivered and free up 763. Immediately, UA went back to all-widebody even on the HAM route, a typical niche route. The transatlantic 757 are taken back to replace the retired worn out 757 to fly transcon and will then meet the scrappers. DL has also replaced its 757 service with A332/B767.. The 757 was an excellent aircraft at its time to replace 722 and offered new possibilities. It sold excellent in the 80s and 90s and Boeing offered with the single type-rating a great oportunity for airlines to be more flexible. It was never meant to be a niche aircraft and never really was. Its days are numbered and that's why the numbers of frames are going down, looking like it is a niche aircraft today.. Boeing learned with the 748I that just re-engine an old design isn't enough to reproduce the sales of a demanded line of the past. Airbus and Boeing will focus on larger planes in the future and will narrow their products as there are many players in the narrowbody market that take away the need of small 737/A318/A319 more and more. I am sure that we will never see a narrowbody with the length of a B753 anymore based on the 707 cross-section. That is out-dated.. Just my 2 cents..
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Old 01-05-2016, 06:07 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

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I am sure that we will never see a narrowbody with the length of a B753 anymore based on the 707 cross-section. That is out-dated.. Just my 2 cents..
Agreed, not good for pax, airlines nor manufacturers
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Old 01-05-2016, 01:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: Boeing 757 replacement on the way?

Interesting read here...
Why choosing the right airplane type is crucial in the wintertime

I said its a niche aircraft because its small enough to service smaller routes, has short field capability, but still has the range (usually) for transatlantic flights.

Delta and American are still operating them transatlantic.
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