Conspiracy theorists here claim the Malaysian gov't knew the captain was hijacking the plane to release the political prisoner. And either he turned off the transponder/etc or was instructed to turn it off so the plane could not be seen by radar while in the air to keep it low profile during negotiations. The supposed plan was to return to KL after the political prisoner was released, claiming they had technical difficulties with the transponder. Eventually, the plane ran out of fuel and ended up crashing into the Southern Indian Ocean....which is why the Malaysian gov't knew for sure the flight "ended" in the SIO.
The reason the Malay gov't is playing the Chinese gov't is because the latter has no clout over the Malay gov't. Supposedly, if the plane was full of US nationals then this would have been played out differently.
So many holes in this theory, but that's what locals are saying at this time.
Oh, and the Americans knew all this after the facts but is keeping it to themselves.
Malaysia is not a democratic country, it's run by a dictator. So expressing an opposite political opinion there is not done my most people.
That's really not true. It has lots of flaws and shortcomings in its system, but it's still something of a democracy. I think more people voted for the opposition in the last election than the ruling coalition, but basically the system is gerrymandered - rural areas loyal to the government have outsized weight in the system.
I'm not saying this is a mature, totally free place like Germany - legal harassment of opposition leaders is proof enough of that. but your description is more fitting of Belarus, and it absolutely isn't that.
Last edited by AnonCollector; 03-27-2014 at 07:04 AM.
I really have a feeling that the captain did something because of political implications, the timing of everything just falls into place to easily.
While we still don't know for sure what happened, if this was a political statement by the captain, than it worked. All the eyes of the world and the media have focused on the Malaysian government the last three weeks. The Chinese who supported the current government, are backing off on support. What better way to piss off the Chinese than to use a flight to Beijing full of Chinese citizens. Also the captain was the only pilot experienced enough to know how of turn off ACARS/satcom and knowing how to fly somewhere where the aircraft would never be found again. A terrorist political act is designed to create fear and make a political statement, all those goals have been achieved here.
While we still don't know for sure what happened, if this was a political statement by the captain, than it worked.
To be honest, I don't think anyone outside of Malaysia will EVER know what really happened ...
And the saddest part about this are the victims of the families ... they'll likely always be wondering WHY this happened to their loved ones and HOW this could have been avoided (if so) ... so truly unfortunate.
Well, do any of you guys know what's 6 feet long and is orange in color that can be tied to MA 370? I hope these 4 objects are part of the debris field, but we'll find out later by the Aussie officials. All items retrieved so far by the search assets are just ocean garbage to date.
Well, do any of you guys know what's 6 feet long and is orange in color that can be tied to MA 370? I hope these 4 objects are part of the debris field, but we'll find out later by the Aussie officials. All items retrieved so far by the search assets are just ocean garbage to date.
Typically most aircraft debris are "Zinc Chromate" primer for internal structure, unless it's an external surface which would obviously be painted in airline colors. If it's orange and it floats, it could be something like a life raft or preserver system, but otherwise it doesn't seem to be related to aircraft structure in the traditional sense.
Last edited by MarinerOne; 03-30-2014 at 02:20 PM.
Reason: terminology correction
This may take months or years at this point. I think they are will past the point where they can find an easy answer.
It's the opinion of many, including myself, that there seems to be a "misrepresentation" of information by the Malaysian government. So much backtracking on data, conflicting reports, etc., one gets the impression that their efforts are purposely designed to mislead and confuse the media and public at large. Naturally this is all merely speculation, but given the course of this unprecedented search investigation, it has felt more like a "wild goose chase" than a typical search-and-rescue operation. I'm of the opinion that the REAL truth may never be known.
It's the opinion of many, including myself, that there seems to be a "misrepresentation" of information by the Malaysian government. So much backtracking on data, conflicting reports, etc., one gets the impression that their efforts are purposely designed to mislead and confuse the media and public at large. Naturally this is all merely speculation, but given the course of this unprecedented search investigation, it has felt more like a "wild goose chase" than a typical search-and-rescue operation. I'm of the opinion that the REAL truth may never be known.
I'll take them at their word. I think what is clear is that no one (Malaysia included) had any idea of what the aircraft did after the aircraft's tracking/communications equipment was disabled. Even now, the search area is largely based on speculation, albeit with a degree of theoretical data support. So I think it was always going to be a "wild goose chase", regardless of who was the aircraft's country of origin.
In this day and age, it seems that every accident needs to have some element of conspiracy surrounding it. It's as though a plane crashing isn't interesting enough for a salacious public. In this instance, many seem to be speculating that the Malaysian Government are purposely misleading and confusing the media and public. Why?...I have no idea. I think that the Malaysian Government is in a no-win situation because; (a) they don't understand what happened to the aircraft and (b) a voracious media and many members of the public demand updates second by second. It's no wonder that the Malaysian Government will say the occasional incorrect thing.
Frankly, I would rather hear nothing from nobody until someone finds an actual bit of the missing aircraft. All I need to know is that the Search Authorities are continuing the search, and it is not being scaled back; I don't need to know that a RAAF Orion spotted an orange thingy somewhere in the middle of nowhere, until it can categorically be confirmed. The ocean is full of lots of flotsam, so the chances of a floating orange thingy being the aircraft still remains remote...at best.
All of this conspiracy gumpf just adds to the emotional roller coaster that the grieving family/friends of the pax are experiencing and shouldn't be given any further credence.
Personally I don't believe the Malaysian government had anything to do with the disappearance. [Other than their actions - politically speaking - which might have been a contributing factor in the pilot's actions (which it appears to be)]
If anyone still believes that any government can cover something like this up where they were responsible then ... well... tinfoil hat time I'm afraid.
Further, if the searchers don't locate signals from the pingers then I'm afraid we might NEVER recover any meaningful wreckage pieces. The ocean is just too large to scour much of it. We might in future get lucky if a trawler drags a piece up by chance.
And even further than that. Even if the recorders are found I also doubt that they would contain any useful information. If the pilot (or the person who was flying the plane weather qualified or not = pilot) switched off the recorders before taking control of the flight then they would be empty.
Or if he left them ON after taking control, then the CVR would not contain any meaningful information - the actual moment of take-over or attempts to access the cockpit by pax/other crew).
On a different note (and I am sure this will win me the popularity contest for sure)... it does appear that all the praying by all the different religions to their respective deity(ies) did not appear to have been of ANY help so far. That should give people food for thought as well. Think about it. It is true which is why it might sting.
The search teams, although so far ineffective, have at least been trying to help and need acknowledgement for their efforts over many days in very difficult circumstances.
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On a different note (and I am sure this will win me the popularity contest for sure)... it does appear that all the praying by all the different religions to their respective deity(ies) did not appear to have been of ANY help so far. That should give people food for thought as well. Think about it. It is true which is why it might sting.
I just pointed out something which should be self evident to all.
Is it not the truth?
I would be happy to stand corrected if you can show me proof that the statement was wrong. That statement was really a side issue which I put out there to make people reconsider the value of the act, although it would have been a genuine attempt from those doing it to get additional help. The effectiveness is what I am just wondering about.
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Latest 'revision' from the Malaysian government on the last known verbal communication:
New details on handoff
On Monday, Malaysia's Transport Ministry said the final voice transmission from the cockpit of Flight 370 was "Good night Malaysian three seven zero."
That's a departure from earlier language in which Malaysian authorities said the final transmission was "All right, goodnight."
The new language is routine and is not a sign of anything untoward occurring aboard the flight, said CNN aviation analyst Mary Schiavo.
But she said it does raise questions about how Malaysian officials have handled the investigation.
"Well, it speaks to credibility issues, unfortunately," she said.
Latest 'revision' from the Malaysian government on the last known verbal communication:
New details on handoff
On Monday, Malaysia's Transport Ministry said the final voice transmission from the cockpit of Flight 370 was "Good night Malaysian three seven zero."
That's a departure from earlier language in which Malaysian authorities said the final transmission was "All right, goodnight."
The new language is routine and is not a sign of anything untoward occurring aboard the flight, said CNN aviation analyst Mary Schiavo.
But she said it does raise questions about how Malaysian officials have handled the investigation.
"Well, it speaks to credibility issues, unfortunately," she said.
You have to be kidding. After ALL this, the Malaysian government or their ATC cannot even transcribe audio to TEXT form correctly? If this is indeed accurate, or IN-accurate as the case may be, how is ANYONE to believe such an elemental oversight or mistake? The audio transcripts were available immediately after the initial reports of the incident/accident/mystery and it's unfathomable that such a basic transcription error could be made.
My point here is that this highlights the credibility of the Malaysian government and makes it almost impossible (for me at least) to believe any reports that they are publicizing. It almost appears to be propaganda-driven for some reason or another. I'll leave my diatribe at this, but as the ol' saying goes ... "There is something rotten in Denmark" ... or Kuala Lumpur, as the case may be.
Next they will tell us they listened to the wrong tapes (of the same flight number but the previous or following night).
So does the article specify whether those words were spoken in English or Malay? (The international aviation communication language is English, but on a quiet frequency one would often hear people communicating in their own language).
So depending on the above answer, it could also be a translation issue?
But still. Amazing! How to drop a ball.
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Next they will tell us they listened to the wrong tapes (of the same flight number but the previous or following night).
So does the article specify whether those words were spoken in English or Malay? (The international aviation communication language is English, but on a quiet frequency one would often hear people communicating in their own language).
So depending on the above answer, it could also be a translation issue?
But still. Amazing! How to drop a ball.
--- Via Reuters (Yahoo) ---
"We would like to confirm that the last conversation in the transcript between the air traffic controller and the cockpit is at 0119 (Malaysian Time) and is "Good night Malaysian three seven zero," the Department of Civil Aviation said in a statement on Monday.
Malaysia's ambassador to China told Chinese families in Beijing as early as March 12, four days after the flight went missing, that the last words had been "All right, good night."
"Good night Malaysian three seven zero" would be a more formal, standard sign-off from the cockpit of the Boeing 777, which was just leaving Malaysia-controlled air space on its route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.
Minutes later its communications were cut off and it turned back across Malaysia and headed toward the Indian Ocean. More than three weeks later, a huge international search effort is going on in the southern Indian Ocean off western Australia, but has so far failed to turn up any wreckage.
The statement from the civil aviation authority came after acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein was questioned at a news conference on Monday over the last words from the cockpit and fended off demands to release the official transcript.
The statement said authorities were still conducting "forensic investigation" to determine whether the last words from the cockpit were by the pilot or the co-pilot. Previously, Malaysia Airlines has said that the words were believed to have come from the co-pilot.
The civil aviation department said the investigating team had been instructed to release the full transcript at the next briefing with the next of kin.
...On a different note (and I am sure this will win me the popularity contest for sure)... it does appear that all the praying by all the different religions to their respective deity(ies) did not appear to have been of ANY help so far. That should give people food for thought as well. Think about it. It is true which is why it might sting. ...
Wow! You must be so pleased with yourself to get that off your chest. Were you hoping to suddenly convert people away from their religious views?
There are things worth saying and thing that aren't.
I just pointed out something which should be self evident to all.
Is it not the truth?
I would be happy to stand corrected if you can show me proof that the statement was wrong. That statement was really a side issue which I put out there to make people reconsider the value of the act, although it would have been a genuine attempt from those doing it to get additional help. The effectiveness is what I am just wondering about.
You know these poor people have just lost a loved one and are finding some comfort in their religious beliefs. This was a totally insensitive comment to make about all these families that are grieving for their loved ones.
My point here is that this highlights the credibility of the Malaysian government and makes it almost impossible (for me at least) to believe any reports that they are publicizing.
Breathtaking incompetence in their communications, yes. But propaganda? How? There is no conceivable propaganda aim achieved by getting such a simple fact wrong.
You know these poor people have just lost a loved one and are finding some comfort in their religious beliefs. This was a totally insensitive comment to make about all these families that are grieving for their loved ones.
I am 100% secular and I also am a non-believer (have been my entire life), BUT I totally agree with your comments Tupolev. Whether religion is right or wrong, if it gives people comfort then more power to them. I don't judge other's beliefs as long as they don't judge mine. Certainly in the case of MH370, the loss of a loved one must be unbearable for these poor souls. Let them do what helps them feel some sense of comfort and leave the religion debate for another day in another thread or another forum...
Breathtaking incompetence in their communications, yes. But propaganda? How? There is no conceivable propaganda aim achieved by getting such a simple fact wrong.
Not necessarily propaganda in the traditional sense of the word, but in a more "casual" and yet deliberate way - of steering (no pun intended) the course of the investigation in opposing directions and creating a constant stream of confusion and apparent misinformation - to the point where many don't even know what to believe any more. Probably a poor choice of words on my part, but that was the best I could think of at the time. Hope that helps!
Here is the story about the 'All right! Good night' in a bit more detail.
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia (CNN) -- They were words heard around the world as investigators searched for the missing Malaysia Airlines plane.
Weeks ago, Malaysian authorities said the last message from the airplane cockpit was, "All right, good night."
The sign-off to air traffic controllers, which investigators saidwas spoken by the plane's copilot, was among the few concrete details officials released in a mystery that's baffled investigators and drawn global attention since the Boeing 777 disappeared with 239 people aboard mid-flight on March 8.
There's only one problem. It turns out, it wasn't true.
On Monday, Malaysia's Transport Ministry said the final voice transmission from the cockpit of Flight 370 was actually "Good night Malaysian three seven zero."
Malaysian authorities gave no explanation for the discrepancy between the two quotes. And authorities are still trying to determine whether it was the plane's pilot or copilot who said them.
The new language is routine and is not a sign that anything untoward occurred aboard the flight, said CNN aviation analyst Mary Schiavo.
But the change in wording weeks into the search for the missing plane raises questions about how Malaysian officials have handled the investigation.
"It speaks to credibility issues, unfortunately," Schiavo said.
"We haven't had a straight, clear word that we can have a lot of fidelity in," said Michael Goldfarb, former chief of staff at the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration. "We have the tragedy of the crash, we have the tragedy of an investigation gone awry and then we have questions about where we go from here."
No matter what the pilots' last words were, it's hard to understand what they mean without more details from authorities about what they said and how they said it, CNN aviation analyst Miles O'Brien told "The Lead with Jake Tapper" on Monday.
"Without the preceding information ... either the transcript or the recordings themselves, it's difficult to know what any of that really means," he said. "And that's the problem with this investigation, which has been so opaque."
Malaysian authorities have defended their handling of the situation.
Acting Transportation Minister Hishammuddin Hussein said Monday that authorities were not hiding anything by declining to release some details of the missing flight. Some details are part of ongoing investigations into what happened to the plane, he said.
"We are not hiding anything," he said. "We are just following the procedure that is being set."
You know these poor people have just lost a loved one and are finding some comfort in their religious beliefs. This was a totally insensitive comment to make about all these families that are grieving for their loved ones.
Oh please , don't obfuscate the point. You thought THAT point would be more insensitive than letting people think there is a chance they might be in some asian country being held captive or something like some theories suggested?
I'm pretty sure the families they don't read and post on DA.C. they have direct contact with the official search channels.
My comment was directed to the community on DA.C.
And besides, I didn't say you may not believe in your particular deity (whicever one that might be), I just asked you to provide proof of how all your praying helped to alieviate those peoples anguish.
You are among the people who prayed for their safe return or at least so that the aircraft can be found so that those people can get closure and some answers to their questions?
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All of the above cannot find a plane the size of a 777 upto almost a month after its disappeared?
I really don't know what to think anymore but I am curious as to how many of you sincerely believe the plane has crashed and how many believe it is still intact in some as yet unknown location?
... but I am curious as to how many of you sincerely believe the plane has crashed and how many believe it is still intact in some as yet unknown location?
The evidence seems to show that the plane did indeed go down into the ocean. The ocean is very large. A Boeing 777 is not large in comparison. It is possible for a large object like that to disappear without a trace, especially if it sank relatively intact thereby not allowing debris to float.
Another point to remember is that they spend many days looking at the wrong location(s), whereby floating items could have been sunk by waves.
Some light elements might wash up on a beach some time in future. If it is a deserted beach it would go unnoticed. Futher, if it is found then the people finding it must first of all realise that it is a piece from MH370 and then they have to deliver it to the proper authorities.
The other theories that have the plane sitting in a hanger somewhere is a bit far fetched. It would be almost impossible for such a huge cover-up.
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The evidence seems to show that the plane did indeed go down into the ocean. The ocean is very large. A Boeing 777 is not large in comparison. It is possible for a large object like that to disappear without a trace, especially if it sank relatively intact thereby not allowing debris to float.
Another point to remember is that they spend many days looking at the wrong location(s), whereby floating items could have been sunk by waves.
Some light elements might wash up on a beach some time in future. If it is a deserted beach it would go unnoticed. Futher, if it is found then the people finding it must first of all realise that it is a piece from MH370 and then they have to deliver it to the proper authorities.
The other theories that have the plane sitting in a hanger somewhere is a bit far fetched. It would be almost impossible for such a huge cover-up.
One could imagine the plane, if purposely taken over by a crew member for whatever reason, "gently" set down in the ocean as a final act of "you'll never find this"... If so, the plane could have sunk with minimal debris being generated. IMHO if it is ever found it will be by chance months or years from now... Unfortunately the answers we all seek may be elusive or never known.
well, whatever happened to mh 370 if it were hijacked, the hijacker had succeeded to "erase" the cause of hijacking.. the fdr and cvr only records 2,5 hours of the last flight, thus it could only explain the plane was running out of fuel and slowly loosing its altitude..
well, whatever happened to mh 370 if it were hijacked, the hijacker had succeeded to "erase" the cause of hijacking.. the fdr and cvr only records 2,5 hours of the last flight, thus it could only explain the plane was running out of fuel and slowly loosing its altitude..
That bothers me as well. the voice recorder, if ever found, won't capture the moment when the plane went off the planned course. so even after they find the wreckage and black boxes, there's probably going to remain lots of things we can't know.
The evidence seems to show that the plane did indeed go down into the ocean. The ocean is very large. A Boeing 777 is not large in comparison.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenevh
It is possible for a large object like that to disappear without a trace, especially if it sank relatively intact thereby not allowing debris to float.
I'm having trouble imagining a 777 going into the ocean without creating some debris field. Maybe I'm wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenevh
Another point to remember is that they spend many days looking at the wrong location(s), whereby floating items could have been sunk by waves.
Sunk, or dispersed, and traveled very far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenevh
The other theories that have the plane sitting in a hanger somewhere is a bit far fetched. It would be almost impossible for such a huge cover-up.
I have my doubts that the ping came from 370. The pulse stopped after 1.5 mins. Unless they stumbled upon it just as the batteries died, I am guessing it came from another ship or submarine searching in the area.
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I have my doubts that the ping came from 370. The pulse stopped after 1.5 mins. Unless they stumbled upon it just as the batteries died, I am guessing it came from another ship or submarine searching in the area.
My sentiments exactly. The way things are going (or NOT going) in this investigation, I am dubious of any announcements relating to this situation - I would rather they announce that they have FOUND something, rather than intimating that they MIGHT have found something. The poor family members have been through enough already.
I know Americans dont see Fox News as being reliable and a bit of a joke but i watched it this morning and the presenter was saying its funny how china have found the ping on the same day the black box signal will expire, THEYVE KNOWN ALL ALONG,
I know Americans dont see Fox News as being reliable and a bit of a joke but i watched it this morning and the presenter was saying its funny how china have found the ping on the same day the black box signal will expire, THEYVE KNOWN ALL ALONG,
At this point, I'll only believe it when it's official. Until then, it's just hearsay.
I know Americans dont see Fox News as being reliable and a bit of a joke but i watched it this morning and the presenter was saying its funny how china have found the ping on the same day the black box signal will expire, THEYVE KNOWN ALL ALONG,
Known what all along?
That signal isn't exactly set by clockwork to expire at a certain time.
You should have taken this stupidity as confirmation that they are a joke..
It's supposed to last a minimum of 30 days under certain conditions. You shouldn't expect it to go silent suddenly, exactly at 30 days. But if the battery isn't replaced at proper intervals, it might not even make it to 30 days.
It's supposed to last a minimum of 30 days under certain conditions. You shouldn't expect it to go silent suddenly, exactly at 30 days. But if the battery isn't replaced at proper intervals, it might not even make it to 30 days.
For all intents and purposes, the battery could have "died" a week ago ... no one has a definite answer on its longevity ... but the news agencies think that it's like "clockwork" and will expire like a coupon at the stroke of midnight of the 30th day.
Hopefully it is (like Timex) "still pinging" and some search vessel hears the signal before time truly runs out.
For all intents and purposes, the battery could have "died" a week ago ... no one has a definite answer on its longevity ... but the news agencies think that it's like "clockwork" and will expire like a coupon at the stroke of midnight of the 30th day.
Hopefully it is (like Timex) "still pinging" and some search vessel hears the signal before time truly runs out.
And if it's like an iPhone it was dead before the end of the first day.
Now its been 3 days and the same news: The sounds of underwater signals is promising and positive. The same line 'promising and positive' over and over again. Can we move beyond that now??
Now its been 3 days and the same news: The sounds of underwater signals is promising and positive. The same line 'promising and positive' over and over again. Can we move beyond that now??
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