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Old 03-12-2014, 11:43 PM   #201 (permalink)
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Default Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 Missing

Latest Press release by MH:

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As a mark of respect to the passengers and crew of MH370 on 8 March 2014, the MH370 and MH371 flight codes will be retired from the Malaysia Airlines’ Kuala Lumpur- Beijing-Kuala Lumpur route.

With effect from 14 March 2014, the new flight number to replace MH370 and MH371 will be:-

MH 318 – Kuala Lumpur - Beijing

MH 319 – Beijing - Kuala Lumpur


There are no changes to the frequency of our services and we will continue to operate double daily services to Beijing.

Our thoughts and prayers remain with the families of our colleagues and passengers of MH 370.
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Old 03-13-2014, 12:44 AM   #202 (permalink)
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Latest development



Quote:
Originally Posted by aae991 View Post
Interesting... Do you think your contacts are holding back and/or not allowed to tell what they know? With all of the conflicting information out there it still sounds likely that someone took over the aircraft for some very sinister or demented reason. What a horrific tragedy.
I do not think so. Most of them are at the receiving end of specific instructions and are not privy to information exchanged at a higher level. I tried probing further but to non-avail. Specifically on the conflicting information shared during the press conferences, I fault the lack of coordination between the key stakeholders involved in the press conferences - seem to suggest that they did not bother to cross-check information among themselves, which resulted them to say different things..

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Old 03-13-2014, 01:17 AM   #203 (permalink)
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Default Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 Missing

The latest news is nothing has turned up where the Chinese satellite said there was debris. This was in the article about this fruitless search:

Quote:
One U.S. official close to the plane investigation also said the Chinese satellite report was a "red herring."
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:19 AM   #204 (permalink)
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I was just shocked that human eyes can see and identify object up to 50-70 Km....
He might be the descendant of Steve "6-million dollar man- Austin
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:21 AM   #205 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by A Tupolev View Post
The latest news is nothing has turned up where the Chinese satellite said there was debris. This was in the article about this fruitless search:
Dang. As if things weren't interesting/bizarre enough already...
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Old 03-13-2014, 02:13 AM   #206 (permalink)
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March 13, 2014 12:50 AM
Missing Airplane Flew On for Hours
Engine Data Suggest Malaysia Flight Was Airborne Long After Radar Disappearance, U.S. Investigators Say

U.S. investigators suspect that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stayed in the air for about four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, according to two people familiar with the details, raising the possibility that the plane could have flown on for hundreds of additional miles under conditions that remain murky.
The search at the area led by the Chinese satellite imagery yielded no result. I am still inclined to believe that MH370 headed west and adding that up with the extended four hours of flight, the ill-fated aircraft might be somewhere around Indian ocean! If really that is the case, hopes of finding it will be less than slim - it is one of the loneliest seas in the world..
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Old 03-13-2014, 03:10 AM   #207 (permalink)
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What a very said story. My our thoughts be with the families of the passengers and crew.

It's unthinkable how a plane can just vanish without trace for almost a week. I'm a huge advocate for having the FDR and the CVR being linked by satellite. In this day and age there must be some capabilities to be able to search for these items in any event using this type of technology.

I know Rolls Royce have a performance monitoring and tracking system of all their engines in use, but unsure of P&W. If they they do why cannot they use this to help with the search?
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Old 03-13-2014, 03:31 AM   #208 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by D-AIHK View Post
What a very said story. My our thoughts be with the families of the passengers and crew.

It's unthinkable how a plane can just vanish without trace for almost a week. I'm a huge advocate for having the FDR and the CVR being linked by satellite. In this day and age there must be some capabilities to be able to search for these items in any event using this type of technology.

I know Rolls Royce have a performance monitoring and tracking system of all their engines in use, but unsure of P&W. If they they do why cannot they use this to help with the search?
MH have RR Trent 892s under the wings of their 777 fleet.

No P&W donks.
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Old 03-13-2014, 05:51 AM   #209 (permalink)
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This is by FAR the most BIZARRE airliner incident I can remember - I'm sure many of you will also feel the same way. There have been many major tragedies - Tenerife and the Turkish Airlines DC-10 and the PSA 727-200 going down in San Diego to name a few.

But NEVER a missing airliner - especially a modern Boeing 777-200ER with all the "bells and whistles". Folks, we have GPS and nothing should EVER get "lost" anymore. Cell phone triangulation is commonplace in our jargon. Modern technological marvels simply don't "vanish".

I'm at the point where I don't even believe what I read anymore. An oil slick? Two stolen passports? Cell phone calls going unanswered? Floating debris? Oil worker sightings? I don't believe ANY of it ANYMORE!!!

The only thing I will believe is the FACT that actual aircraft structure has been recovered - OR the fact that the aircraft was hijacked by humanoids (OR aliens) and that the plane had landed safely on a small uncharted airfield - or had been otherwise abducted by alien beings and returned to Earth unharmed.

SO BIZARRE!!! Will this plane EVER be found? Is there some kind of coverup going on? Was the co-pilot (the 27-year old who invited blondes into the cockpit) to blame?

ENQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!!!
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:41 AM   #210 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by T7_4ever View Post

Can someone explain/answer why the 'transponder' can't be built in a way so it can't be 'manually' disabled during flight? I could be wrong here, but having that transponder always on (when airborne), until external forces/events damage the thing...
I'm not a pilot, but reading some FAA orders, it looks like ATC may request a pilot put a transponder in standby mode, in some circumstances.

some guy on anet who claims to be a pilot says it is also necessary to be able to shut off all such equipment in case of electrical fault or electrical fire, for safety reasons.
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:54 AM   #211 (permalink)
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This plane will be found when it washes up on a beach, They have no idea where it is.
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:31 AM   #212 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AnonCollector View Post
I'm not a pilot, but reading some FAA orders, it looks like ATC may request a pilot put a transponder in standby mode, in some circumstances.

some guy on anet who claims to be a pilot says it is also necessary to be able to shut off all such equipment in case of electrical fault or electrical fire, for safety reasons.
Everything with a current running through it in the cockpit has to have a circuit breaker. People are talking as if there is a big red OFF switch on the transponders - there isnt. You turn them off by pulling the CB on the panel behind the RHS on the 777.

Or a transponder that goes dark may look as though it has been switched off when in fact current just stopped running - a catastrophic electronic problem will do that.

What could cause something like that? Fire, certainly as Gimala pointed out. Bomb? Structural failure around the electronics bay? Or at the antenna assemblies?
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:56 AM   #213 (permalink)
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or this?
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:43 AM   #214 (permalink)
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What does the pic #3 tell?
Sorry, I can't read Chinese characters...
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:45 AM   #215 (permalink)
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Its starting to crystalize in my head a bit.

We know a few things for fact (as far as you can know something predicated on the info you have in front of you is correct)

1 - aircraft disappeared off primary radar at the same time the transponders went dark.
2 - transponders, ACARS and engine updates all went dark at roughly the same time.

3 - sporadic PR contacts reported all over, we dont know for definite whether any or all were MH370.

4 - the phones ringing means nothing.

5 - eyewitness reports are unreliable at best.

6 - there were no indications prior to the "event" that suggested any issues.

7 - cargo manifest has not been released

8 - stolen passports stated by the authorities as almsot certainly not being terror related. This does not mean there was not a terrorist attack, just that the fake passports do not necessarily mean anything.

9 - whatever happened we know it occurred almost exactly at TOC as the aircraft leveled off at FL34.

10 - no wreckage has been found but this does not mean the plane didnt come down in the area they were searching, just that it was not spotted, either because the pieces were too small or because it just wanst spotted.

11 - NASA and the various national security services state they have no indications of a high altitude explosion at that time in that area consistent with a bomb and resulting catastrophic structral failure and fire.

12 - reports suggest a left turn and descent in a controlled manner post "event" but this could be a red herring as well.
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:33 PM   #216 (permalink)
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Default Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 Missing

Quote:
Originally Posted by aritrixa View Post
What does the pic #3 tell?
Sorry, I can't read Chinese characters...
Though I can't read or speak Chinese (though tempted to learn), I have a feeling this may be displaying the Maximum range of the 777. Though I hardly think it could make it all the way there considering it wasn't traveling anywhere near with full tanks.
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Old 03-13-2014, 02:42 PM   #217 (permalink)
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Latest from Jon Ostrower (formerly known as Flightblogger) and his report from the Wall Street Journal - that Rolls Royce has captured engine data up to FOUR hours after the last known transponder contact!

U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Malaysia Airlines Plane Flew On for Hours - WSJ.com


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Old 03-13-2014, 04:25 PM   #218 (permalink)
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According to the map posted above, they could be in the Outback doing a Walkabout.
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Old 03-13-2014, 04:49 PM   #219 (permalink)
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Ok this has got to be the icing on the cake. I nearly fell off my chair when I saw this:




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Old 03-13-2014, 06:22 PM   #220 (permalink)
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If the plane continued to fly for hours, chances are it flew over the water out of any radar contact. It could be somewhere in the Indian Ocean.
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:43 PM   #221 (permalink)
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Whats your thoughts, Just a plane right? But its strange how if you zoom out a little it lights up like a christmas tree, and if this was a normal busy air route, where are the other christmas lights on the tree?

https://www.google.com/maps?t=h&ll=5...output=classic
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:46 PM   #222 (permalink)
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Just when things couldn't get even more bizzare. The possibility that it may have landed on land somewhere is taking this event to another level. I can't imagine what emotions are now going through with the passengers families/relatives/friends with this news. I thought the malaysia govt was denying reports that the T7 was still flying for hours after it lost contact?

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Old 03-13-2014, 07:56 PM   #223 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mjabbasi View Post
Ok this has got to be the icing on the cake. I nearly fell off my chair when I saw this:
I hear ya. It's like what is going to be broadcast next that will add another twist to this unfortunate incident with MAS 370.
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:59 PM   #224 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by A Tupolev View Post
If the plane continued to fly for hours, chances are it flew over the water out of any radar contact. It could be somewhere in the Indian Ocean.
Yes, based on all facts collected to date; this would be the most likely scenario of where MAS 370 eventually will be found.
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Old 03-13-2014, 08:26 PM   #225 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by T7_4ever View Post
Yes, based on all facts collected to date; this would be the most likely scenario of where MAS 370 eventually will be found.
TRUTH is STRANGER than FICTION.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...h-indian-ocean


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Old 03-13-2014, 08:40 PM   #226 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LOT 737-300 View Post
Though I can't read or speak Chinese (though tempted to learn), I have a feeling this may be displaying the Maximum range of the 777. Though I hardly think it could make it all the way there considering it wasn't traveling anywhere near with full tanks.
I thought about the same thing too..
But, it seems odd. What is the star in one of the city in US continent? Pointing out a city in Nebraska? Colorado? Wyoming? Kansas?

I don't think even with the fully loaded fuel, the B772 can cross the Pacific and half of the US continent. I could be totally wrong.
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Old 03-13-2014, 08:51 PM   #227 (permalink)
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So who do you believe? The Malaysia government or these guys?

Analysts from U.S. intelligence, the Federal Aviation Administration and the National Transportation Safety Board have concluded that pings sent to a satellite hours after the plane's last transponder signal likely came from the missing aircraft, the senior U.S. official said.

"It appears the plane was flying most of that time," the senior U.S. official said. The "indication" that the plane kept flying is not based on U.S. government information but rather based on radar readings and plane data.

There is reason to believe the plane flew for four hours, the officials said, but there is no specific indication where the plane actually is.
Multiple bursts of data were received indicating the plane was flying over the Indian Ocean, the senior U.S. official told CNN.

And there's another confusing twist. An emergency beacon that would have sent data if the plane was about to impact the ocean apparently did not go off, the official said. The beacons, known as Emergency Locator Transmitters, activate automatically upon immersion in fresh or salt water, but must remain on the surface for a distress signal to transmit.
The failure of the beacon to activate could mean that the plane didn't crash, that the transmitter malfunctioned, or that it's underwater somewhere.
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Old 03-13-2014, 08:53 PM   #228 (permalink)
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I can't be the only one that thought of terrorists hijacking this plane to hold it for future use.
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:47 PM   #229 (permalink)
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How does navigation work on these things? Satellite gps? Any way to track it if its pulling data from the satellite? (I really have no idea how satellite gps works)
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:55 PM   #230 (permalink)
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How does navigation work on these things? Satellite gps? Any way to track it if its pulling data from the satellite? (I really have no idea how satellite gps works)
Not sure, but you can better believe when this is over the FAA and airlines will be looking at fool proof ways to track aircraft at all times that can't be turned off or tampered with while in flight. I'm shocked they do not have this capability now.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:03 PM   #231 (permalink)
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Not sure, but you can better believe when this is over the FAA and airlines will be looking at fool proof ways to track aircraft at all times that can't be turned off or tampered with while in flight. I'm shocked they do not have this capability now.
I know, I thought they were going to do this after 9-11.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:52 PM   #232 (permalink)
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So I guess what this all boils down to is no one knows where the hell this plane is ! So much for modern technology.

Check your backyard folks - you may have a 777 sitting in it !
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Old 03-13-2014, 11:23 PM   #233 (permalink)
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CNN is showing the electronics on the T7 right now. Cooper is interviewing Dr. R. John Hansman a professor in the Department of Aeronautics
and Astronautics at MIT.

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Old 03-14-2014, 02:22 AM   #234 (permalink)
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Time to get agents Mulder & Scully involved.
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Old 03-14-2014, 05:20 AM   #235 (permalink)
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This is a bizzare event.
I guess it looks like, based on the points so far that we can 'assume' that the aircraft has been tampered with, redirected with the intention of going 'stealth' and headed for the islands off Malaysia - the Adaman Sea etc.
Is the aircraft safe? If this was the case I will be gobsmacked!!
If they find the wreckage - I will be relieved that closure for the families can begin.

Sounds like either pilot suicide - but why not just do it at the begin? or a some hijackers trying their luck for India or somewhere else.

Insert (?) here!!!
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:01 AM   #236 (permalink)
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Anyone heard of the rumor that the US B2 may have been involved in this incident.
I'm done with all the rumors now
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:10 AM   #237 (permalink)
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This one has me borderline obsessed - and I know I am not the only one.

As far as I can tell - here's the facts:

1. We are pretty much certain this wasn't catastrophic mechanical failure:
  • Odds are, it would have occured shortly after, if not immediately after, the handover to Vietnamese ATC. And there would have been debris everywhere that would have been seen.
  • It wouldn't have shut off the ACARS primary and the Transponder at variable times (which has been confirmed)
  • The Emergency Locater Beacon should have activated.

2. It seems now apparent this was deliberate, and that the aircraft was taken off course:
  • Referring to the time disparity in the Transponder/ACARS being turned off - suggests a human hand did so deliberately.
  • Hypoxia due to rapid decompression wouldn't result in those devices being turned off - if anything, the aircraft likely would have been easier to track.
  • The timing of the event occured right at the hand-off point between ATC in Malaysia and Vietnam - would make sense if you were trying to buy some time to leave the area before it was noticed you are missing.

3. The plane can now be assumed to have flown for quite some time, with a destination in mind. I.e. not suicide:
  • US Authorities are now revealing that some data/an electronic "handshake" continued to be received by satellite.
  • Andy Pazstor of the WSJ has come out and said that some investigators believe the nature of the data/handshake indicates that the aircraft *landed* at some point during that 5 hours.
  • The 'Suicidal Pilot' theory doesn't work - why not just stab or hit your co-pilot, then push the yoke forward as far as it will go, and get it over with? Why fly hundreds more miles to kill yourself?

So I have to go with the following assumption: the plane was commandeered, and flown towards (maybe not "to", but "towards") and unknown destination, that whoever was flying had chosen beforehand. Now - after that - who knows: perhaps it is lying on the bottom of the Indian Ocean. But....

What I find interesting is: over the last few days, everytime that the "direction" of this search seems to be coming into greater focus - the PRC releases some bit of evidence, delayed by *days*, that almost seems to be an attempt to bring everyone back to the Gulf of Thailand - i.e. square one. I find it interesting that it takes almost 4 days to release images of debris that, pretty much right off the bat, can be eliminated as wreckage given it's size - and now 7 days for seismic data that somehow indicates the plane managed to carry it's mass all the way to the bottom after impacting the water.

6 days ago, I would have scoffed at the above myself - believing that it was a matter of hours before debris was sighted. Now - with all of the data painting more and more of a defined "picture" over the last few hours - I seriously wonder if the PRC isn't stalling for time, or trying to figure out how to manage a scenario that they feel would either embarass or call their judgement into question. 6 days ago this would have sounded like it came from hawkish suspicion. Now I am beginning to think it deserves some consideration.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:16 AM   #238 (permalink)
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This one has me borderline obsessed - and I know I am not the only one.

As far as I can tell - here's the facts:

1. We are pretty much certain this wasn't catastrophic mechanical failure:
  • Odds are, it would have occured shortly after, if not immediately after, the handover to Vietnamese ATC. And there would have been debris everywhere that would have been seen.
  • It wouldn't have shut off the ACARS primary and the Transponder at variable times (which has been confirmed)
  • The Emergency Locater Beacon should have activated.

2. It seems now apparent this was deliberate, and that the aircraft was taken off course:
  • Referring to the time disparity in the Transponder/ACARS being turned off - suggests a human hand did so deliberately.
  • Hypoxia due to rapid decompression wouldn't result in those devices being turned off - if anything, the aircraft likely would have been easier to track.
  • The timing of the event occured right at the hand-off point between ATC in Malaysia and Vietnam - would make sense if you were trying to buy some time to leave the area before it was noticed you are missing.

3. The plane can now be assumed to have flown for quite some time, with a destination in mind. I.e. not suicide:
  • US Authorities are now revealing that some data/an electronic "handshake" continued to be received by satellite.
  • Andy Pazstor of the WSJ has come out and said that some investigators believe the nature of the data/handshake indicates that the aircraft *landed* at some point during that 5 hours.
  • The 'Suicidal Pilot' theory doesn't work - why not just stab or hit your co-pilot, then push the yoke forward as far as it will go, and get it over with? Why fly hundreds more miles to kill yourself?

So I have to go with the following assumption: the plane was commandeered, and flown towards (maybe not "to", but "towards") and unknown destination, that whoever was flying had chosen beforehand. Now - after that - who knows: perhaps it is lying on the bottom of the Indian Ocean. But....

What I find interesting is: over the last few days, everytime that the "direction" of this search seems to be coming into greater focus - the PRC releases some bit of evidence, delayed by *days*, that almost seems to be an attempt to bring everyone back to the Gulf of Thailand - i.e. square one. I find it interesting that it takes almost 4 days to release images of debris that, pretty much right off the bat, can be eliminated as wreckage given it's size - and now 7 days for seismic data that somehow indicates the plane managed to carry it's mass all the way to the bottom after impacting the water.

6 days ago, I would have scoffed at the above myself - believing that it was a matter of hours before debris was sighted. Now - with all of the data painting more and more of a defined "picture" over the last few hours - I seriously wonder if the PRC isn't stalling for time, or trying to figure out how to manage a scenario that they feel would either embarass or call their judgement into question. 6 days ago this would have sounded like it came from hawkish suspicion. Now I am beginning to think it deserves some consideration.
I would not rule out the hypoxia, due to a structural failure that impacted the electronics.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:24 AM   #239 (permalink)
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Time to get agents Mulder & Scully involved.
Jack Bauer and Cloe.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:25 AM   #240 (permalink)
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I would not rule out the hypoxia, due to a structural failure that impacted the electronics.
And shut off vital systems - including a transponder and ACARS - at the variable times? And then how did the A/C make its turn, and follow known waypoints on its presumable flight West?
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:44 AM   #241 (permalink)
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And shut off vital systems - including a transponder and ACARS - at the variable times? And then how did the A/C make its turn, and follow known waypoints on its presumable flight West?
Pilots could of had some sense before passing out to change coordinates for a return to Kuala Lampur, changing course. Lack of oxygen would impact judgement and vision to sit the right course. Pilots pass out before making a distress call.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:49 AM   #242 (permalink)
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The problem I have with the hijacking, stolen aircraft theory, is what's the motivation and end game. A terrorist act is designed to create fear and you do this by announcing you did it. If plane was stolen for money or ransom, we would have heard a ransom demand by now.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:57 AM   #243 (permalink)
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Pilots could of had some sense before passing out to change coordinates for a return to Kuala Lampur, changing course. Lack of oxygen would impact judgement and vision to sit the right course. Pilots pass out before making a distress call.
Okay - I will grant you that *could* explain the course change. But it doesn't explain the shutting off of systems in a delayed sequence. The time disparity more suggests someone rushing to take command and go as invisible as possible - shutting off the Transponder - then going "Crap - forgot to turn off the ACARS."

Granting that every accident is unique in nature - Helios Flight 522 is the best comparison if we accept your theory: the flight kept on going with transponder squawking the entire time - it never dropped off radar, or became an unknown blip. The Hellenic Air Force jets were even able to get alongside and reported they could see the First Officer slumped over and the oxygen masks dangling.

I don't see the similarities - even if this occured in the early hours of the AM, and ATC was sleepy. Also - the 777 has a cabin pressure warning that would have tripped - so in my opinion, it's either instantaneous decompression (which would seem to negate the course correction action that was taken) or none at all.

So from where I am sitting, Hypoxia due to decompression paired with unique unprecedented sequential electric failures doesn't seem to cover it. Just sayin.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:00 AM   #244 (permalink)
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The problem I have with the hijacking, stolen aircraft theory, is what's the motivation and end game. A terrorist act is designed to create fear and you do this by announcing you did it. If plane was stolen for money or ransom, we would have heard a ransom demand by now.
Ah - this one, I can offer an opinion on: if it *was* terrorist action....what would the value be to terrorists of an aircraft in known civil markings, that you could fill with things other than passengers?

Or alternatively -if this was Xinjiang province seperatists (who's battles with the PRC government seem to be increasing) - how valuable a bargaining chip would 239 passengers be?
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:19 AM   #245 (permalink)
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if it was a terrorist action, there should be something made public by them, declaring who they are and what they want but apparently it seems not because it has been nearly a week.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:24 AM   #246 (permalink)
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if it was a terrorist action, there should be something made public by them, declaring who they are and what they want but apparently it seems not because it has been nearly a week.
That's the expectation, right? (And for the record - a group from Xinjiang province *did* claim responsibility - a claim which was derided by Malaysian authorities several days ago) - but honestly, if you had something bigger planned....would you want to give a heads up? What if you were hoping this thing was going to come across like a very difficult to locate accident - while you prepped for your real move?

Sounds crazy - but then again - a week ago - this whole scenario would have sounded crazy. And on 9/10/01 - anyone suggesting that Al Queda would commandeer planes - versus blow them up - would have been regarded as an excessive alarmist dealing in fantasy.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:34 AM   #247 (permalink)
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Okay - I will grant you that *could* explain the course change. But it doesn't explain the shutting off of systems in a delayed sequence. The time disparity more suggests someone rushing to take command and go as invisible as possible - shutting off the Transponder - then going "Crap - forgot to turn off the ACARS."

Granting that every accident is unique in nature - Helios Flight 522 is the best comparison if we accept your theory: the flight kept on going with transponder squawking the entire time - it never dropped off radar, or became an unknown blip. The Hellenic Air Force jets were even able to get alongside and reported they could see the First Officer slumped over and the oxygen masks dangling.

I don't see the similarities - even if this occured in the early hours of the AM, and ATC was sleepy. Also - the 777 has a cabin pressure warning that would have tripped - so in my opinion, it's either instantaneous decompression (which would seem to negate the course correction action that was taken) or none at all.

So from where I am sitting, Hypoxia due to decompression paired with unique unprecedented sequential electric failures doesn't seem to cover it. Just sayin.
The Helios incident occurred in crowded, well controlled air space. The Malaysian flight was in a part of the world with poorly controlled air space.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:41 AM   #248 (permalink)
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Ah - this one, I can offer an opinion on: if it *was* terrorist action....what would the value be to terrorists of an aircraft in known civil markings, that you could fill with things other than passengers?

Or alternatively -if this was Xinjiang province seperatists (who's battles with the PRC government seem to be increasing) - how valuable a bargaining chip would 239 passengers be?
Keeping and using the aircraft as a weapon would require an airfield (with runway long enough for the 777) with servicing and fueling capability. The military satellites of various countries could find this type of place easily.

And as I have stated, holding plane and passengers as a bargaining chip, we would have heard the demands by now. It's not easy to hold and take care of 250 hostages.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:55 AM   #249 (permalink)
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Keeping and using the aircraft as a weapon would require an airfield (with runway long enough for the 777) with servicing and fueling capability. The military satellites of various countries could find this type of place easily.

And as I have stated, holding plane and passengers as a bargaining chip, we would have heard the demands by now. It's not easy to hold and take care of 250 hostages.
Please don't think I'm being combatative-argumentative - but I strongly disagree with your statement on the capabilities of military satellites, and I think it's a common misconception about satellite imaging capability that we can almost instantaneously get high-res imaging from space of any location in the world. It would take several hours to reorient an orbit to get it in place for high-res imagery - and first, you'd have to know exactly where you want to look. Our satellites are good - but not that good. Geosync satellites used to monitor the Soviet Union for launches, yes - but they were looking for heat blooms indicative of a launch - a high-level view. When we want to spy on something - we have a specific defined area to look, and we have to adjust orbits. In this case, the land area is so big - you could land a 777 and throw netting over it - and in order to detect it with a high degree of certainty, we would need to systematically examine a whole crap ton of airfields (that we actually know about) in order to see it.

I'm not saying "probable" - but I am saying "possible"
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:57 AM   #250 (permalink)
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The Helios incident occurred in crowded, well controlled air space. The Malaysian flight was in a part of the world with poorly controlled air space.
The Helios incident occured on a flight from Cyprus to Athens, and the ground knew something was wrong pretty early on. There were areas where radar coverage dropped off - but the entire time, the Transponder was on. So it was easy to track. Hence why the F-16's were able to identify and intercept it.
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