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Old 03-09-2014, 01:17 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Default Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 Missing

If a SatComm is installed on 9M-MRO, it should have ACARS datalink system onboard.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:21 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CathayPacific View Post
I think that the passport situation is honestly a coincidence here. There are many cases like this that go unheard of. My personal theory is that there may have been a fire in the cargo hold similar to what happened on the SA 747 that crashed many years ago albeit that one was a combi, it too went down very quickly and I believe only one radio call was made before it slammed into the sea. If the reports are true that the US base did receive a warning from MH370 then this is a possibility. I would hold off on the bomb theory for now. If the plane had broken up at high altitude, the oil slick probably wouldn't have shown up at all. One of my buddies is a pilot for CX and flew through airspace near to this between SIN-HKG a few hours before it was reported missing and said that weather was excellent as reports have said.
Another distinct possibility. I've studied this at length for previous jobs - i used to be an aviation analyst for a consultancy and part of that is looking at flight safety culture and "safety record" etc.

In-flight fires are about the single scariest thing in the world for a cockpit crew. Any pilot will tell you - forget terrorism, ATC screwups and bird strikes, the thing that really profoundly horrifies them is an uncontained fire.

Fires in the cargo holds are easier to detect because the holds have heat and smoke sensors (they detect changes in air density as well as particulate matter and are much more sensitive than the ones we have at home) and inert gas suppression systems. These are designed not to smother the fire but to keep it from breaking out so that the aircraft can land safely. There are multiple bottles of gas for each hold.

Fires in the cabin are really f**ing bad. Since there is no inert gas system, no heat sensors and only smoke detectors in the toilets fighting a fire in the cabin is far harder. Swissair 111 had a fire in the electronics bay which spread to the forward cabin - they had no chance. By the time the alarms had sounded it was probably too late to save, although had they gotten her down quicker into Halifax some of the pax might have made it although this is unlikely. AC had a DC9 in flight fire that ended very badly as well.

Smoke and the effects of thermal radiation in the confined space will kill in a very short time and although the crews do have smoke hoods and fire fighting capability if there is no visibility and a mass of desperate and dying pax trying to get away from the source you have little possibility of being able to get close enough to fight it once it becomes uncontrolled and in any case the heat alone makes this unfeasible.

Might this be what happened here?

There are rumours that MH370 reversed track before radar lost contact, that sounds consistent.

I would further point out that the Chinese have a well known and sadly very well established habit of misdeclaring IMDG cargoes on bills of lading. Hazardous goods cost more to ship and so they misdeclare cargoes. SQ had an inflight cargo fire on a flight back from Dhaka on an A333 i believe it was last year, cause was misdeclared cargo. Flights to or from China (and a couple of other countries around the world) are subject to greater scrutiny of their cargo manifests.

Another line of enquiry which may or may not be related to my previous point would be thermal runaway on Lithium Ion batteries. They give off toxic fumes and burn incredibly hot, more than 1,000 degrees and easily hot enough to melt and distort aluminium. Might there have been a LiIo fire in the cargo hold, got hot enough to make it uncontrollable - the gas bottles would ineffective as the thermal effect is chemical based and requires no oxygen. Cabin fills with toxic smoke, everybody dead inside four minutes. Cockpit crew overcome very quickly by fumes and do not have time to get their smoke hoods and breathing apparatus on. Heat causes other materials to flash off. Temperature too hot, floor gives way, electronics fail, hydraulics lines fail, shortly after a catastrophic structural failure and flight breaks up in flight?

Grim or what?

It may or may not be worth noting that Etihad had a 77W flight MEL-AUH just last week that was forced to divert to CGK after a series of unexplained small fires in the bathrooms. They landed, the culprit firebug could not be identified and took off again to AUH where there were a series more of attempted arson attacks in the bathrooms, culminating in the crews standing by the toilets for the rest of the flight. This was last week. A new type of terrorism following on from the recent al Qaida attempts to bring down commercial jets with incendiary devices (see the Delta A333 in Detroit and the Nigerian islamofascist who had a IED hidden in his underwear but was thankfully unsuccessful in setting it off) - or just a pyromaniac with a deathwish? We'll likely never know as the culprit is in AUH as we speak enjoying the generous and no doubt very comfortable hospitality of the Emirati security services for what i would guess would be an extended period of time.

Might this be linked?

Its almost too grim to think about.

I've got the following flights booked for the next two months

DXB-SGN
SGN-HAN
HAN-HPG
HPG-SGN
SGN-DXB
DXB-IST
IST-DXB
DXB-DOH
DOH-DXB
DXB-MAD
MAD-DXB
DXB-LHR
LHR-GLA
GLA-DXB

Not going to lie - its a worry.
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Old 03-09-2014, 04:31 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Listening to an accident investigator on the BBC news this morning I understand the airframe involved had been repaired following "an incident" a couple of years ago.

Has anyone got more information on this? An accident from a rear pressure bulkhead failure following repairs with a JAL Boeing 747 comes to mind.

Thanks
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Old 03-09-2014, 05:51 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Edmund H. Carus View Post
Listening to an accident investigator on the BBC news this morning I understand the airframe involved had been repaired following "an incident" a couple of years ago.

Has anyone got more information on this? An accident from a rear pressure bulkhead failure following repairs with a JAL Boeing 747 comes to mind.

Thanks
There was a ramp collision with an MU A343, they bumped wingtips and the MH jet required substantial replacements to the last four feet of its wing, nothing major though and nothing anywhere near the pressure bulkhead.
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:14 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Edmund H. Carus View Post
Listening to an accident investigator on the BBC news this morning I understand the airframe involved had been repaired following "an incident" a couple of years ago.

Has anyone got more information on this? An accident from a rear pressure bulkhead failure following repairs with a JAL Boeing 747 comes to mind.

Thanks
I put a weblink on my reply (post #49 above) that connect you to the information on the incident mentioned by the expert on BBC.
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:09 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Oh really??? And how do you know this? Are you part of the investigation team? Or did you plot the attack yourself?

What an idiotic statement. Stop the conjecture and speculation. Too early to conclude anything for certain.
Yes I'm part of both teams
Look at some posts below, others think the same. At this point it's just logic to think it could be an attack.
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Originally Posted by truss20 View Post
Sadly, all signs here point to a terrorist attack.

It coincides with the train station massacre a week ago in Xinjiang where 20 knife-wielding psychopaths stabbed 33 people to death. The muslim separatists were responsible for that attack, as they are seeking equitable treatment from the Gov't.

With Malaysia being a muslim country, and the plane carrying over 130 Chinese on board bound for the capital Beijing, it would send a huge statement to the Chinese gov't that they should be taken seriously.

Disgusting if it is true.
Agreed.
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:39 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 Missing

We are now up to 4 suspicious passengers with 4 stolen passports.
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Old 03-09-2014, 12:36 PM   #58 (permalink)
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A lesson of AF447 (and so many cases before it) should have been for people sitting on their couches at home to be patient, and not get carried away with inaccurate reports and speculation, and not convince themselves of their own pet hypotheses.

You can make guesses if you like, but being 'certain' of something is just silly.
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:00 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Default Re: Malaysia Airlines 777 Missing

I'm going to go with a fire of some sort that got out of hand very quickly, weather that be a cargo hold fire or one that spread into the flight deck. This may explain the lack of radio calls and the reason it might have turned back.
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Old 03-09-2014, 10:44 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Jan Jasinski View Post
Yes I'm part of both teams
Look at some posts below, others think the same. At this point it's just logic to think it could be an attack.
Key words here are "could be." You know nothing for certain. Anon said it well:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonCollector View Post
A lesson of AF447 (and so many cases before it) should have been for people sitting on their couches at home to be patient, and not get carried away with inaccurate reports and speculation, and not convince themselves of their own pet hypotheses.

You can make guesses if you like, but being 'certain' of something is just silly.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:49 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Based on what has been presented thus far (or not presented), I am beginning to believe that someone entered the cockpit of the aircraft during flight, took control and nosed the aircraft into the water. Two fake passports would be a flight-deck crew for a 777. No distress signal sent, no wreckage discovered and no indications that the aircraft's datalink between itself and its technical center that there was anything wrong with the aircraft itself.

I have thrown out any possibilities that the aircraft came apart during flight either as a result of an explosion or a catastrophic failure from the aircraft itself. I am not quite sure how anyone at this point can argue otherwise. When TWA 800 exploded, the search and rescue teams were able to discover wreckage floating on the surface of the water. But in the case of this Malaysia flight, they have found nothing.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:54 AM   #62 (permalink)
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Based on what has been presented thus far (or not presented), I am beginning to believe that someone entered the cockpit of the aircraft during flight, took control and nosed the aircraft into the water. Two fake passports would be a flight-deck crew for a 777. No distress signal sent, no wreckage discovered and no indications that the aircraft's datalink between itself and its technical center that there was anything wrong with the aircraft itself.

I have thrown out any possibilities that the aircraft came apart during flight either as a result of an explosion or a catastrophic failure from the aircraft itself. I am not quite sure how anyone at this point can argue otherwise. When TWA 800 exploded, the search and rescue teams were able to discover wreckage floating on the surface of the water. But in the case of this Malaysia flight, they have found nothing.
Based on no debris and no mayday call, I would agree the possibility of the aircraft nose diving into the ocean is a possibility.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:00 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MrMD11 View Post
Based on what has been presented thus far (or not presented), I am beginning to believe that someone entered the cockpit of the aircraft during flight, took control and nosed the aircraft into the water. Two fake passports would be a flight-deck crew for a 777. No distress signal sent, no wreckage discovered and no indications that the aircraft's datalink between itself and its technical center that there was anything wrong with the aircraft itself.

I have thrown out any possibilities that the aircraft came apart during flight either as a result of an explosion or a catastrophic failure from the aircraft itself. I am not quite sure how anyone at this point can argue otherwise. When TWA 800 exploded, the search and rescue teams were able to discover wreckage floating on the surface of the water. But in the case of this Malaysia flight, they have found nothing.
Wow. Simply mind-blowing that you can make such a statement (referring to the remarks in bold) at this point. They haven't even found the wreckage, and you've already got it solved. All of you armchair, crack investigators should go apply for jobs at the NTSB.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:14 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mike777 View Post
Wow. Simply mind-blowing that you can make such a statement (referring to the remarks in bold) at this point. They haven't even found the wreckage, and you've already got it solved. All of you armchair, crack investigators should go apply for jobs at the NTSB.
I am just making an argument like everybody else, Mike777.

Cool your jets sport !
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:30 AM   #65 (permalink)
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With all due respect to EVERYONE formulating opinions or theories on what happened to this tragic flight, I think it is TOTALLY OK to write such things.

Let's face it ... we would all like to be right in our predictions, so why can't we all just respect one another even though it's WAY too premature to form an ACCURATE opinion based on the sheer lack of evidence?

I do tend to agree that hijackers broke into the cockpit too - but only based on the current information known at present. Things may change once they find the FDR and CVR, but until then ... ALL BETS are still on the table!
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:53 AM   #66 (permalink)
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The aircraft could also quite easily been beamed up by a UFO and little green men for all we know at this point.....

In all seriousness, it is interesting to read alot of the possible causes, and there are some compeling questions early on into the cause of the crash (i.e passports, no mayday etc...)

Hopefully over the coming days some of the questions could be answered and a cause pin pointed... for now tho, all be it sad with loss of life, its interesting to read the forums opinions...
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:56 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Very well said, M1.

I tried to summarize the POSSIBILITIES based on what have been discussed so far in this thread:

1. Fire incident in cargo compartment
2. Fire incident inside the cabin
3. Explosions
4. Structural failure, related to the repaired wing.
5. Cockpit breach, an attempt of hijack.
6.
7.
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:10 AM   #68 (permalink)
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No wreckage found as of yet. Lot of eye-witness reports stating they saw bright lights and fire but the fisherman guy couldnt have seen the plane at night and the passenger on the China Eastern flight to Xian was well away from the flightpath of MH370 and probably saw offshore gas platforms flaring off waste gas.

Lack of anything found so far does suggest to me at any rate that the search is looking in the wrong place, but it is a huge area to cover during daylight and they are doing the best they can.

Regarding the terrorism theories above - i find it a little ghoulish that some Americans (not necesaarily on here) seem to be hoping it is terrorism, either to save culpability of their beloved Boeing etc, or because of something more sinister, about being addicted to the drama of being the target of large scale dramatic and religiously motivated terrorist mass murder. There's something deeply unsettling about it. Its as if some are so entrenched with the notion that "the bad guys" are out there and they want to destroy their freedom, way of life, cause mass destruction and huge loss of life etc -I cannot help but think this is a psychological issue stemming from the national trauma that was 9/11. It is sad that because of their mass media agenda in the US, some Americans are convinced Al Qaida and Al Shabaab are behind every tree and anthill frothing at the mouth for the chance to kill us all in horrible ways because they despise freedom etc.

I'm not disputing that the signs do point to many things, one of which is a terrorist attack of some nature. But the surety some (as i said not neccessarily on here) have that it was DEFINATELY an islamic terrorist attack and refusal to countenance any other possibility is as worrying as it is sad. Pretty ignorant I'd say. Its as if they WANT it to have been so they can continue to hold onto their fear of islam, of muslims, of everything not-American and of the wide world outside thier borders.

As a European who grew up facing terrorist attacks for 20 years in the UK and who now lives in an islamic state and who is a person of the world, i can say one thing for absolute certain - trying to fit one's political, idealogical, religious, social or personal agendas into the questionmark gaps of what is rapidly becoming one of biggest mysteries of the 21st Century, is naive at best and at worst disengenous and cynical.

Could it have been terrorism? Sure. How likey is it though? Seriously, how likely?

You cannot smuggle a bomb on board, and certainly not one large enough to being down a 777 in a manner that makes it simply disappear.

You can turn off the transponders and dive the aircraft into the sea but that involves access to the cockpit - all but impossible for a terrorist to do these days.

You can set fires and stuff but the crew would certainly have got a message out. They didnt.

You can smuggle a bomb on board in your hold luggage but luggage is screened and any trace of PETN or similar even the tiniest particle is picked up either by scanners or by dogs or by random searches. Luggage cannot be carried without a passenger accompanying either.

You cannot despite what is written in mass media hit a 777 at cruise with a MANPAD. Even if you could find one that will reach that high the speed makes it impossible to hit unless you shoot it head on, and it is astronomincally unlikely anyone could be in the right place at the right time. Let alone in the middle of the ocean!

...and even if it was terrorism (and i am not all sure it was) then why the assumption it was islamofasicsts? Dont the Uighurs have a track record too? Sikhs blew up an Air India flight - do they not count? What about catholics, they love a bomb or they did when i was growing up. Drug cartels? Chinese triads? North Koreans?

I do get very frustarted when some people fall over themselves to blame the muslims in something like this.
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Old 03-10-2014, 06:12 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Just an observation based on this actually being a terror attack. Surely the culpable group would have screamed and shouted that they had committed the atrocity. During the 7/7 terrorists attacks, I'm pretty sure that the groups responsible notified the media that they had caused the incident straight away. Otherwise, (with all due respect) what would be the point? If no one knows who you are or why you claim you did it, then you have died in vain?

I would have thought if it was an accidental fire they may have at least had a few seconds to send off a distress call though?

I'm not looking forward to the next time I fly now! Hah

Also, has anyone noticed that the time at which the aircraft disappears coincides almost perfectly with the time it reaches cruising altitude?

http://uk.flightaware.com/live/fligh.../ZBAA/tracklog
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:10 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Istari View Post
Just an observation based on this actually being a terror attack. Surely the culpable group would have screamed and shouted that they had committed the atrocity. During the 7/7 terrorists attacks, I'm pretty sure that the groups responsible notified the media that they had caused the incident straight away. Otherwise, (with all due respect) what would be the point? If no one knows who you are or why you claim you did it, then you have died in vain?

I would have thought if it was an accidental fire they may have at least had a few seconds to send off a distress call though?

I'm not looking forward to the next time I fly now! Hah

Also, has anyone noticed that the time at which he aircraft disappears coincides almost perfectly with the time it reaches cruising altitude?

Flight Track Log ? MAS370 ? 08-Mar-2014 ? WMKK / KUL - ZBAA / PEK ? FlightAware
That was my thought as well - if it was Al Qaida or Al Shabaab or Uighur separatists etc etc then surely they'd have taken responsibility for it.


...Unless they had more attacks planned imminently and did not want to trigger a huge security crackdown?

#conspiracy
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:29 AM   #71 (permalink)
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That was my thought as well - if it was Al Qaida or Al Shabaab or Uighur separatists etc etc then surely they'd have taken responsibility for it.


...Unless they had more attacks planned imminently and did not want to trigger a huge security crackdown?

#conspiracy
That thought crossed my mind too, pick on what might be perceived as a soft target before aiming elsewhere. Let's hope not...
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:53 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Agreed, you may not want to shout from the roof tops if you wanted to do it again, thats is IF this is linked to terrorism...

Hopefully it will turn out that it isnt...
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:59 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Regardless of whether this turns out to be a terrorist attack or not I think we can be certain that security will be (and is being) ratcheted up as we speak. Anytime a tragedy like this occurs vigilance is raised. The one issue that keeps sticking out in my mind was the apparent change in course just prior tithe aircraft's disappearance. Something was going on up there - perhaps a struggle - as the end was nearing. It's human nature to speculate, especially when these sorts of tragedies occur. It's also somewhat in self defense as we all try and calm ourselves that aviation is still safe. I know I am struggling with this on many fronts, not least of which is upcoming flights to Vietnam on a 777. Life goes on just as it did after 9/11. Let's all hope answers are found soon for this tragedy. Until then, I think most of us find it helpful to try and figure out what happened... If for any reason just to help us all cope with this senseless event.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:33 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Still no wreckage found. I supposed either the alien grabbed them or the plane just entered the time tunnel or a fighter from unknown country fired a missile at it and cleared all debris before the news of loss is spread out
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:34 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:36 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Anyone can explain it?
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:43 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Anyone can explain it?
Looks like a red circle.
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:45 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Looks like a red circle.
It's the Loch Ness, come on dude.
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Old 03-10-2014, 01:25 PM   #79 (permalink)
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I am just making an argument like everybody else, Mike777.

Cool your jets sport !
Mike 777 is right MrMD11. Your idea of making an argument is not based on logic or known facts as the other posters have. Cockpits are now secured against any cockpit intrusion and only accessed by cabin staff. At present it is all pointing to terrorism where the only thing that would prevent a Mayday call being made would be a sudden catastrophic explosion. Anything less, like a fire, should give them time to make at least one call.
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:00 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Mike 777 is right MrMD11. Your idea of making an argument is not based on logic or known facts as the other posters have. Cockpits are now secured against any cockpit intrusion and only accessed by cabin staff. At present it is all pointing to terrorism where the only thing that would prevent a Mayday call being made would be a sudden catastrophic explosion. Anything less, like a fire, should give them time to make at least one call.
My argument is going off the facts that have been presented thus far, which happens to be the same information that you or any other poster on this forum has to go by.

Cockpit doors may prevent someone from entering the cockpit, but does not mean that the pilots did not come out of the cockpit for some reason.

You also argue that the only thing that could prevent a Mayday call would be a catastrosphic explosion (all explosions tend to be catastrophic to some degree or another). I do have a question for you - where is the debris? Can you give me an example of an aircraft that exploded in-flight and did not leave a trail of debris? TWA 800? Pan Am 103? Air India 182?
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:00 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Terrorists, I hope not, The news states one person connected to the stolen passport isnt asian looking, i think this rules out chinese,indians,pakistanis,afghans,iraqis-iranians etc, I dont see muslim terrorists blowing up a national airline from a majority muslim country.

If terrorists gained access to the cockpit, which would be extremely hard, and even harder and fast without getting a distress call out, What purpose does it serve the terrorists if they gain access and then just blow them self up.

Other aircraft tried to contact MH370 on the emergency frequency, and one pilot says he got through on it but heard a faint voice and static, Was this during a incident or after they heard through there radio that a flight had JUST dissapeared off radar?
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:24 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Terrorists, I hope not, The news states one person connected to the stolen passport isnt asian looking, i think this rules out chinese,indians,pakistanis,afghans,iraqis-iranians etc, I dont see muslim terrorists blowing up a national airline from a majority muslim country.

If terrorists gained access to the cockpit, which would be extremely hard, and even harder and fast without getting a distress call out, What purpose does it serve the terrorists if they gain access and then just blow them self up.

Other aircraft tried to contact MH370 on the emergency frequency, and one pilot says he got through on it but heard a faint voice and static, Was this during a incident or after they heard through there radio that a flight had JUST dissapeared off radar?
Albanians? Chechens? Turks? Converted? Not all Muslims are Asian or Arab.
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:39 PM   #83 (permalink)
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No wreckage found as of yet. Lot of eye-witness reports stating they saw bright lights and fire but the fisherman guy couldnt have seen the plane at night and the passenger on the China Eastern flight to Xian was well away from the flightpath of MH370 and probably saw offshore gas platforms flaring off waste gas.

Lack of anything found so far does suggest to me at any rate that the search is looking in the wrong place, but it is a huge area to cover during daylight and they are doing the best they can.

Regarding the terrorism theories above - i find it a little ghoulish that some Americans (not necesaarily on here) seem to be hoping it is terrorism, either to save culpability of their beloved Boeing etc, or because of something more sinister, about being addicted to the drama of being the target of large scale dramatic and religiously motivated terrorist mass murder. There's something deeply unsettling about it. Its as if some are so entrenched with the notion that "the bad guys" are out there and they want to destroy their freedom, way of life, cause mass destruction and huge loss of life etc -I cannot help but think this is a psychological issue stemming from the national trauma that was 9/11. It is sad that because of their mass media agenda in the US, some Americans are convinced Al Qaida and Al Shabaab are behind every tree and anthill frothing at the mouth for the chance to kill us all in horrible ways because they despise freedom etc.

I'm not disputing that the signs do point to many things, one of which is a terrorist attack of some nature. But the surety some (as i said not neccessarily on here) have that it was DEFINATELY an islamic terrorist attack and refusal to countenance any other possibility is as worrying as it is sad. Pretty ignorant I'd say. Its as if they WANT it to have been so they can continue to hold onto their fear of islam, of muslims, of everything not-American and of the wide world outside thier borders.

As a European who grew up facing terrorist attacks for 20 years in the UK and who now lives in an islamic state and who is a person of the world, i can say one thing for absolute certain - trying to fit one's political, idealogical, religious, social or personal agendas into the questionmark gaps of what is rapidly becoming one of biggest mysteries of the 21st Century, is naive at best and at worst disengenous and cynical.

Could it have been terrorism? Sure. How likey is it though? Seriously, how likely?

You cannot smuggle a bomb on board, and certainly not one large enough to being down a 777 in a manner that makes it simply disappear.

You can turn off the transponders and dive the aircraft into the sea but that involves access to the cockpit - all but impossible for a terrorist to do these days.

You can set fires and stuff but the crew would certainly have got a message out. They didnt.

You can smuggle a bomb on board in your hold luggage but luggage is screened and any trace of PETN or similar even the tiniest particle is picked up either by scanners or by dogs or by random searches. Luggage cannot be carried without a passenger accompanying either.

You cannot despite what is written in mass media hit a 777 at cruise with a MANPAD. Even if you could find one that will reach that high the speed makes it impossible to hit unless you shoot it head on, and it is astronomincally unlikely anyone could be in the right place at the right time. Let alone in the middle of the ocean!

...and even if it was terrorism (and i am not all sure it was) then why the assumption it was islamofasicsts? Dont the Uighurs have a track record too? Sikhs blew up an Air India flight - do they not count? What about catholics, they love a bomb or they did when i was growing up. Drug cartels? Chinese triads? North Koreans?

I do get very frustarted when some people fall over themselves to blame the muslims in something like this.
Well said. Btw what's with the Sam Chui type trip you're about to take.

After having followed this all since Day 1 and seeing that there has not been a trace of wreckage to be found, the idea that it ended up in the sea is looking more and more questionable as no matter which speed a plane ends up in the water, something would be visible and floating. The tail, life rafts, seats, something would be there. Its a fairly large area to search and from 35K feet, debris would have been scattered afar but as they have been at it for 3 days now, one would assume they have covered most of the search area. The AF flight was at almost the same altitude and the first thing spotted was the tail. The tail is usually always intact. Even when AI 182 came down its wreckage was spotted on the first day or search. Where the hell has this plane gone? If its transponder was turned off on purpose, how long would it be able to fly undetected? Would the satellites be able to spot it? So many things are coming to mind, even the movie Airport '77. At this point anyone could be forgiven for thinking even the most absurd. A departure from the obvious would not be unusual.

Btw how far is North Korea from where this flight was going to?



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Old 03-10-2014, 03:55 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Just had a look at the malaysian facebook page for updates, and it leads to the passenger manifest, The saddest thing is the 2 children aged 2 & 4, I realise maybe many chinese names are popular but many family members travelling together, gone so quickly.
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:38 PM   #85 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mjabbasi View Post
Well said. Btw what's with the Sam Chui type trip you're about to take.

After having followed this all since Day 1 and seeing that there has not been a trace of wreckage to be found, the idea that it ended up in the sea is looking more and more questionable as no matter which speed a plane ends up in the water, something would be visible and floating. The tail, life rafts, seats, something would be there. Its a fairly large area to search and from 35K feet, debris would have been scattered afar but as they have been at it for 3 days now, one would assume they have covered most of the search area. The AF flight was at almost the same altitude and the first thing spotted was the tail. The tail is usually always intact. Even when AI 182 came down its wreckage was spotted on the first day or search. Where the hell has this plane gone? If its transponder was turned off on purpose, how long would it be able to fly undetected? Would the satellites be able to spot it? So many things are coming to mind, even the movie Airport '77. At this point anyone could be forgiven for thinking even the most absurd. A departure from the obvious would not be unusual.

Btw how far is North Korea from where this flight was going to?
I'm glad I'm not the only one starting to think about more unorthodox scenarios. IF - and I know it's not easy - someone qualified to fly the 777 got access to the cockpit and managed to take control, could they have managed to fly the aircraft to an undisclosed location? More unusual ideas have to come to mind when there's literally no trace of the aircraft. I don't claim to be any sort of aviation expert but something should have shown up by now - unless it came down over land in a remote area (think heavy jungle) or it was literally hijacked to someplace and immediately hidden. Far-fetched? Yes, but with each passing day of zero evidence it makes more far-fetched ideas seem worth considering. No matter what happened to this flight, it's a difficult time waiting for answers - especially for the relatives waiting for news about their loved ones.
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:45 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Wow. Simply mind-blowing that you can make such a statement (referring to the remarks in bold) at this point. They haven't even found the wreckage, and you've already got it solved. All of you armchair, crack investigators should go apply for jobs at the NTSB.
What's your problem? Another arrogant internet user.
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:54 PM   #87 (permalink)
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The AF flight was at almost the same altitude and the first thing spotted was the tail. The tail is usually always intact.
Being at the same altitude has nothing to do with the tail being intact. With AF the tail broke off on impact with the water. It didn't break off, as in the case of the AA A300 over Queen's where the entire vertical stabilizer detached.



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Old 03-10-2014, 05:15 PM   #88 (permalink)
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What's your problem? Another arrogant internet user.
My problem is with ignorant internet users such as yourself, Janek.

And aren't you--who claims to know what happened to the Malaysia plane for certain--the arrogant one here?
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Old 03-10-2014, 06:36 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Chill out guys, there is many possibilities here on what may have happened! Popular opinion seems to thread on the idea of a terror attack, possibly a explosive of some kind. But there are many issues that can arise that we haven't even though of. I'm sure something will show up eventually. Even after 2 years of searching, we even managed to find the recorders off of AF447!

The theory it may have made it to over land is also likely, so hopefully, the forces at work had taken the time to consider it as well and fly up and down their coastlines, just to make sure there wasn't any sign of flying into the any sort of forest nearby (though I have a feeling some kind of emergency beacon that could activate automatically would've activated and immediately found had it been the case.)

As far as I'm concerned, there is still a lot on the table here that shouldn't be pulled just yet.
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Old 03-10-2014, 07:29 PM   #90 (permalink)
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My problem is with ignorant internet users such as yourself, Janek.

And aren't you--who claims to know what happened to the Malaysia plane for certain--the arrogant one here?
Mike, you have no room to speak. Janek has proven himself an authority of all things aviation time and time again on this fine forum, toting an upstanding history since he joined. You, on the other hand, are a little trouble maker.
Trouble Maker Mike.
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Old 03-10-2014, 07:45 PM   #91 (permalink)
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I'm just trying to be like you, Bill-ay!
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Old 03-10-2014, 07:51 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Terrorists, I hope not, The news states one person connected to the stolen passport isnt asian looking
What does an "Asian" look like? This description is so vague, so as to be useless.

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That was my thought as well - if it was Al Qaida or Al Shabaab or Uighur separatists etc etc then surely they'd have taken responsibility for it.
Why would you say that?

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Surely the culpable group would have screamed and shouted that they had committed the atrocity.
Again, why would you say that?

Read the news after terrorist attacks and pay attention to this. Oftentimes, the real actors don't claim responsibility right away, and the authorities have to spend effort trying to figure it out.

While on the other hand, publicity seekers claim responsibility, even though they didn't do it.

Just staying within aviation - did those responsible for AI182 or PA103 claim responsibility right away? Moving away from aviation - did the Atlanta olympics bomber claim responsibility?

I see no particular reason to think this was terrorism, but the lack of a claim of responsibility, to me, is not evidence of anything.
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:42 PM   #93 (permalink)
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My problem is with ignorant internet users such as yourself, Janek.

And aren't you--who claims to know what happened to the Malaysia plane for certain--the arrogant one here?
How am I ignorant? It doesn't even matter, forums should not have these kind of chatters between members on public threads.
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Mike, you have no room to speak. Janek has proven himself an authority of all things aviation time and time again on this fine forum, toting an upstanding history since he joined. You, on the other hand, are a little trouble maker.
Trouble Maker Mike.
Ok now cowboy...

Now back to the post..
Anyone remember this?

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Old 03-10-2014, 09:01 PM   #94 (permalink)
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How am I ignorant? It doesn't even matter, forums should not have these kind of chatters between members on public threads.

Ok now cowboy...

Now back to the post..
Anyone remember this?
Then clearly you remember this:
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:43 PM   #95 (permalink)
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I'm just trying to be like you, Bill-ay!
Don't even try bro! Just like Janek is the authority on how to rip others photos off, I am the authority on how to get banned on this site!
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:54 PM   #96 (permalink)
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I am the authority on how to get banned on this site!
Under current conditions, I'm not sure you could if you tried.
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:02 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Under current conditions, I'm not sure you could if you tried.
Yes, this place has turned into the "wild wild west"...
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:25 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Nothing was found yet, not even a piece of wreckage/debris
Do we have another Bermuda Triangle????....rename.....???
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:06 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Anyone with technical expertise here, is this categorized as "substantial damage"?

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Old 03-11-2014, 12:22 AM   #100 (permalink)
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The wingtip was fixed complying with Boeing requirements, and the aircraft has been in service since.

The chances of this being the catalyst of possible loss of control is almost Nil.
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