Wow..... You Have To Read This

EastCoast · 12-07-2003, 12:48 PM

I tried calling Bader numerous times, but I cannot get in touch with him to confirm.

Gulf Daily News

Maybe his is counting the money!

Congratulations Bader!

niels · 12-07-2003, 03:31 PM

Bully for him.
Unfortunately, if, like me, you've been waiting xx months for a model, this paragraph won't gladden your heart!:
-----
"This decision came as a surprise to us as we will now have to work night and day to produce another 200 models for our next destination, as on average it takes nine weeks to make one aircraft," he said.
-----

So, is Bader Models a Museum/Collection Seller or a Custom Model Maker for us individual buyers? I think a decision should be made instead of leaving us hanging month after month..

Ozz · 12-07-2003, 06:51 PM

Wow, that's a lot of clams for one sale! I'll bet that wasn't in the plans for the world tour, was it?
Congrats Bader, I'm sure your "customer" got more than his money's worth, sure wish I could do that.
As for outstanding orders, I don't think this has any impact on our delivery dates, I once went over a year when there was no world tour to tie the man up.
I have received five out of the seven I ordered this year so that's a bit of a record

and as long as I get the other two sometime before I die, I'll be happy.

samu990 · 12-07-2003, 10:38 PM

Well, good for Bader.

I agree that one should be patient and expect to wait for over a year for one or two of Bader's masterpieces- like my anticipated Saunders-Roe Princess- and that's no problem.

My only problem is that he charges for them when the order is placed- and that's a long time to be out several hundred dollars. Bader should charge 1/2 on actual commencement of work, and 2/2 + s/h upon completion.

Danny

justin · 12-08-2003, 06:57 AM

I am about to go into rant mode so please switch off if easily offended!

I think the whole wait time issue is something that Bader needs to sort out, wait times of over a year WHEN THE MODEL IS PAID FOR AT THE TIME OF ORDERING are just not acceptable!! If Bader took, say a 20% deposit it wouldn't be quite as bad, or if he charged the customer when the model was ready, or even when he started work on the model, then wait time would be a dead issue, but if we're paying $300 up front then the wait is absurd. Would people accept this in any other service they buy? I collect brass model trains from Europe and Japan which are also very expensive models prone to long delays, but my dealer charges a 10% deposit and then the rest when the model arrives in his shop, which I'm happy with. When I ordered my models the web site still gave a wait time of 6 weeks, paying up front if a model is delivered in 6 weeks is OK, but I doubt if I'll ever see the DC6 I've been waiting for. I had big plans for a big Bader collection but they got shelved a couple of years ago as I'm not going to be screwed by being charged $100's up front only to wait years hoping the models will arrive some time. At first I did get my models in a reasonable time, but things just went downhill rapidly.
To me Bader does have some great plus points, namely;
-the custom service, few other companies offer this custom service and I was prepared to pay a premium for it
-the paint finish, which is justly revered as the best there is
However all this means nothing if the customer service is dreadful, and there are plenty of other options out there.
Am I the only disgruntled former Bader fan who has moved on largely as a result of this issue and a few niggles about things like wing markings?

Take care!

Justin

EastCoast · 12-08-2003, 07:47 AM

I just finished talking with Bader, since he is currently at the Dubai Air Show for the entire week.

First issue, regarding the selling of the entire museum collection, this was in the process two months ago (before the museum was officially open), but was not confirmed to the media until yesterday. The museum models and artwork will still be available for the next two museum locations, so current production for customers will not be affected!

Also, Bader months ago hired 7 additional craftsmen and artists, because of the need to keep up with the demand of his models.

Second issue, why does Bader not charge 50/50 for the models?
Bader used that process when he first started his business, but it did not work well! Basically, he does not have time to chase people to get the additional amount owed, between emails changing, credit card expiring etc. For collectors who purchased once it really was not a problem, but for collectors who purchased quite often, it did become a problem, so he scrapped the process.

I also have been waiting 8 months for my two models and understand your fustration Justin.

PINTO · 12-08-2003, 10:53 AM

Is obvious ; with this payment system (total with the order) there is always a direct connexion with the delivery(unfortunally). This is the Bader system ,and for the Bader.
Is not acceptable wait for a model 4 / 6/ 9 /12 months and more .I think that Bader should give more attention to their
clients,because with this system ,the future will not be brillant.
A good comercial relation should have others principles :
Principle of rights equality
Principle of duties equality
Principle of reciprocal trust

With this system who buy just has duties;by other way who sell
just has rights ; Is not a correct system .

With this system is not important to Bader the delivery ;3 /6/9
months is equal .

Other problem that I have with Bader is :
How,can I speak with Bader ? I think that is a problem of all
Bader clients ; I see in this forum frequently,clients that want to speak with Bader,they do 4/5/6 mails and no answer ;this is not
correct, Mr Bader . You should think about this .

The museum is an important event to him;I understand ; but
I dont understand why Mr Bader dont answer their clients ;This
is another principle that Mr Bader never should forget .

I am sorry for my frontality ,but my only objective ,is try to help.

Pinto

egonzinc · 12-08-2003, 10:04 PM

I have no models pending so I don't feel pushed back by the museum models.
But it is obvious that making all those models took a long time regardless of how many new "workers" Bader added.

Maybe the paying 50% system didn't work, but for the buyer the paying for 100% of the model, PLUS 100% of postage doesn't work either.

There is simply no incentive for Bader to get the model done.

The commercial airliner models and specially the props are without equal, but you should have a good idea of when you are getting what you paid for.

The whole "the model is worth the wait" argument is NOT relevant.
Waiting one or two years for a paid model is not acceptable regardless of the "niceness" of the model.

I'm happy to have a the Bader Models I have in my collection, but now my collecting is going in a different direction...

Best of luck to those who wait...

Eduardo

EastCoast · 12-09-2003, 08:46 AM

E!

This is very sad news to hear your "collection is going in a different direction". I will surely miss the unique and colorful models that you have ordered in the past, when the photos were posted in the forum.

My collection has also "shifted gears" and I have stepped away from 1:400 models, after collecting over 400+, Baders models are much more impressive and unique.

My curio cabinet that was once containing 100 1:400's, now hold over 20+ Bader Models.

Chansen · 12-09-2003, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EastCoast

I also have been waiting 8 months for my two models and understand your fustration Justin.

I am making port and starboard views with close ups and wing views for art. Nacelle drawings. This work will assist the artisans to get the work done faster. I have yet to send it as to work and trying to get that right takes time. Been color matching with other ones of Bader collection so same quality comes through. I understand anything with a moving tour like this it will be tougher to get the plane done quicker but I don't want to rush quality since quantity is not what I am going for in this scale.

Ozz · 12-09-2003, 09:35 AM

I for one don't really mind the paying up front thing.
I am not rich and being a Canuck I take an extra hit with the exchange, a regular 1:200 Bader ends up costing me about two days pay by the time it arrives at my door so I have to budget for it.
I only order when I have the cash in hand and sometimes that takes a couple of months of planning around other purchases.
If Bader were to put off charging me until the item shipped, I would be hit with an unexpected bill, probably the day after I overspent on something else.
I know that Bader is an honest man so when I order a model I forget about it, knowing that it will eventually arrive and it usually surprises me when it does.
I can certainly see the frustration a lot of collectors feel but this is a system that works for me.
Not that I wouldn't want a quicker arrival, two months for a custom would be just about right.

PINTO · 12-09-2003, 03:53 PM

There is simply no incentive for Bader to get the model done

Completamente de acuerdo Eduardo

Pinto

niels · 12-10-2003, 04:58 AM

Well, my remaining model is now, apparently, on its way. Best of luck to the rest of you!

R. Minor · 12-10-2003, 05:06 AM

Been waiting about seven months for one myself...

Haloweve · 12-10-2003, 03:40 PM

I am at 5 months and counting on my first Bader. I personally don't mind paying the price upfront, but the incredible amount of time between ordering and recieving the aircraft as well as the lack of response from e-mails sent has me believing that this will be the only bader that I order (regardless of quality). There is alot to be said for I.G. (Instant Gratification).

Haloweve

samu990 · 12-10-2003, 05:05 PM

Twelve months on two models.

Danny Samuels

Ozz · 12-10-2003, 06:17 PM

I just got an e-mail from Bader informing me that my CPA DC6B is enroute, oh yeah baby!!
That just leaves one outstanding, the Gulf Air 67 I won in that "name the plane" contest and I can hardly be impatient for that to be made. Humble and patience go hand in hand.
Let's hope that the rest of you get similar notes in the very near future.

Spartan13 · 12-11-2003, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozz
I just got an e-mail from Bader informing me that my CPA DC6B is enroute, oh yeah baby!!
That just leaves one outstanding, the Gulf Air 67 I won in that "name the plane" contest and I can hardly be impatient for that to be made. Humble and patience go hand in hand.
Let's hope that the rest of you get similar notes in the very near future.

Well its good to know you are finally getting one of your models, I just hope I don't have to wait that long to get mine. This may be my 1st & last bader because of how long it takes.

niels · 12-12-2003, 04:17 PM

Well, my 1:144 BW A340 arrived today. At the risk of being selfish, I am somewhat placated now.

Hey, there was a new Bader brochure inside the box, with pictures of some of you guys (Ozz, Pinto, Eduardo) giving positive testimonials!

PINTO · 12-12-2003, 05:44 PM

My two models are flying .
They will be my Christmas gifts .

I would like that all of you,get similiar gifts from Bader !

Pinto

R. Minor · 12-12-2003, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PINTO
My two models are flying .
They will be my Christmas gifts .

I would like that all of you,get similiar gifts from Bader !

Pinto

I hope so...

EastCoast · 12-13-2003, 08:43 AM

I just received an email that my two models have been mailed, just in time for Christmas!

12-07-2003, 12:48 PM	#1
EastCoast Master Collector Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Melville, NY Posts: 513	Wow..... You Have To Read This I tried calling Bader numerous times, but I cannot get in touch with him to confirm. Gulf Daily News Maybe his is counting the money! Congratulations Bader! __________________ Ken (EastCoast) Last edited by EastCoast; 12-17-2003 at 04:44 PM.

12-07-2003, 03:31 PM	#2
niels Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: , Location, Location Posts: 1,608	Bully for him. Unfortunately, if, like me, you've been waiting xx months for a model, this paragraph won't gladden your heart!: ----- "This decision came as a surprise to us as we will now have to work night and day to produce another 200 models for our next destination, as on average it takes nine weeks to make one aircraft," he said. ----- So, is Bader Models a Museum/Collection Seller or a Custom Model Maker for us individual buyers? I think a decision should be made instead of leaving us hanging month after month.. __________________ ---- BWIA West Indies 1:400/200 final livery MD-83; oldest liveries: Viscount, Viking, DC-3; sandy livery: A321, DC-9-30, -80, 727, 707-138, -220) 1:250 scale? No, thank you. --------------------------- Last edited by niels; 12-07-2003 at 03:34 PM.

12-07-2003, 06:51 PM	#3
Ozz Insane Collector Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada (CYVR) Age: 52 Posts: 2,763	Wow, that's a lot of clams for one sale! I'll bet that wasn't in the plans for the world tour, was it? Congrats Bader, I'm sure your "customer" got more than his money's worth, sure wish I could do that. As for outstanding orders, I don't think this has any impact on our delivery dates, I once went over a year when there was no world tour to tie the man up. I have received five out of the seven I ordered this year so that's a bit of a record and as long as I get the other two sometime before I die, I'll be happy. __________________ Ozz ORANGE IS BEAUTIFUL *GO WESTJET!!!* We need more CPAir/CDN and don't forget PWA and BA Landor!

12-08-2003, 07:47 AM	#6
EastCoast Master Collector Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Melville, NY Posts: 513	I just finished talking with Bader, since he is currently at the Dubai Air Show for the entire week. First issue, regarding the selling of the entire museum collection, this was in the process two months ago (before the museum was officially open), but was not confirmed to the media until yesterday. The museum models and artwork will still be available for the next two museum locations, so current production for customers will not be affected! Also, Bader months ago hired 7 additional craftsmen and artists, because of the need to keep up with the demand of his models. Second issue, why does Bader not charge 50/50 for the models? Bader used that process when he first started his business, but it did not work well! Basically, he does not have time to chase people to get the additional amount owed, between emails changing, credit card expiring etc. For collectors who purchased once it really was not a problem, but for collectors who purchased quite often, it did become a problem, so he scrapped the process. I also have been waiting 8 months for my two models and understand your fustration Justin. __________________ Ken (EastCoast) Last edited by EastCoast; 12-08-2003 at 12:04 PM.

12-08-2003, 10:04 PM	#8
egonzinc Insane Collector Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Guaynabo,Puerto Rico, USA Age: 54 Posts: 1,733	I have no models pending so I don't feel pushed back by the museum models. But it is obvious that making all those models took a long time regardless of how many new "workers" Bader added. Maybe the paying 50% system didn't work, but for the buyer the paying for 100% of the model, PLUS 100% of postage doesn't work either. There is simply no incentive for Bader to get the model done. The commercial airliner models and specially the props are without equal, but you should have a good idea of when you are getting what you paid for. The whole "the model is worth the wait" argument is NOT relevant. Waiting one or two years for a paid model is not acceptable regardless of the "niceness" of the model. I'm happy to have a the Bader Models I have in my collection, but now my collecting is going in a different direction... Best of luck to those who wait... Eduardo Last edited by egonzinc; 12-08-2003 at 10:07 PM.

12-07-2003, 10:38 PM	#4
samu990 Senior Collector Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Houston TX USA Posts: 322	Well, good for Bader. I agree that one should be patient and expect to wait for over a year for one or two of Bader's masterpieces- like my anticipated Saunders-Roe Princess- and that's no problem. My only problem is that he charges for them when the order is placed- and that's a long time to be out several hundred dollars. Bader should charge 1/2 on actual commencement of work, and 2/2 + s/h upon completion. Danny

12-08-2003, 06:57 AM	#5
justin Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 2,005	I am about to go into rant mode so please switch off if easily offended! I think the whole wait time issue is something that Bader needs to sort out, wait times of over a year WHEN THE MODEL IS PAID FOR AT THE TIME OF ORDERING are just not acceptable!! If Bader took, say a 20% deposit it wouldn't be quite as bad, or if he charged the customer when the model was ready, or even when he started work on the model, then wait time would be a dead issue, but if we're paying $300 up front then the wait is absurd. Would people accept this in any other service they buy? I collect brass model trains from Europe and Japan which are also very expensive models prone to long delays, but my dealer charges a 10% deposit and then the rest when the model arrives in his shop, which I'm happy with. When I ordered my models the web site still gave a wait time of 6 weeks, paying up front if a model is delivered in 6 weeks is OK, but I doubt if I'll ever see the DC6 I've been waiting for. I had big plans for a big Bader collection but they got shelved a couple of years ago as I'm not going to be screwed by being charged $100's up front only to wait years hoping the models will arrive some time. At first I did get my models in a reasonable time, but things just went downhill rapidly. To me Bader does have some great plus points, namely; -the custom service, few other companies offer this custom service and I was prepared to pay a premium for it -the paint finish, which is justly revered as the best there is However all this means nothing if the customer service is dreadful, and there are plenty of other options out there. Am I the only disgruntled former Bader fan who has moved on largely as a result of this issue and a few niggles about things like wing markings? Take care! Justin

12-08-2003, 10:53 AM	#7
PINTO Junior Collector Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Madeira Island-Portugal Posts: 47	Is obvious ; with this payment system (total with the order) there is always a direct connexion with the delivery(unfortunally). This is the Bader system ,and for the Bader. Is not acceptable wait for a model 4 / 6/ 9 /12 months and more .I think that Bader should give more attention to their clients,because with this system ,the future will not be brillant. A good comercial relation should have others principles : Principle of rights equality Principle of duties equality Principle of reciprocal trust With this system who buy just has duties;by other way who sell just has rights ; Is not a correct system . With this system is not important to Bader the delivery ;3 /6/9 months is equal . Other problem that I have with Bader is : How,can I speak with Bader ? I think that is a problem of all Bader clients ; I see in this forum frequently,clients that want to speak with Bader,they do 4/5/6 mails and no answer ;this is not correct, Mr Bader . You should think about this . The museum is an important event to him;I understand ; but I dont understand why Mr Bader dont answer their clients ;This is another principle that Mr Bader never should forget . I am sorry for my frontality ,but my only objective ,is try to help. Pinto

12-09-2003, 08:46 AM	#9
EastCoast Master Collector Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Melville, NY Posts: 513	E! This is very sad news to hear your "collection is going in a different direction". I will surely miss the unique and colorful models that you have ordered in the past, when the photos were posted in the forum. My collection has also "shifted gears" and I have stepped away from 1:400 models, after collecting over 400+, Baders models are much more impressive and unique. My curio cabinet that was once containing 100 1:400's, now hold over 20+ Bader Models. __________________ Ken (EastCoast)

12-09-2003, 09:35 AM	#11
Ozz Insane Collector Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada (CYVR) Age: 52 Posts: 2,763	I for one don't really mind the paying up front thing. I am not rich and being a Canuck I take an extra hit with the exchange, a regular 1:200 Bader ends up costing me about two days pay by the time it arrives at my door so I have to budget for it. I only order when I have the cash in hand and sometimes that takes a couple of months of planning around other purchases. If Bader were to put off charging me until the item shipped, I would be hit with an unexpected bill, probably the day after I overspent on something else. I know that Bader is an honest man so when I order a model I forget about it, knowing that it will eventually arrive and it usually surprises me when it does. I can certainly see the frustration a lot of collectors feel but this is a system that works for me. Not that I wouldn't want a quicker arrival, two months for a custom would be just about right. __________________ Ozz ORANGE IS BEAUTIFUL *GO WESTJET!!!* We need more CPAir/CDN and don't forget PWA and BA Landor!

12-09-2003, 03:53 PM	#12
PINTO Junior Collector Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Madeira Island-Portugal Posts: 47	There is simply no incentive for Bader to get the model done Completamente de acuerdo Eduardo Pinto

12-10-2003, 04:58 AM	#13
niels Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: , Location, Location Posts: 1,608	Well, my remaining model is now, apparently, on its way. Best of luck to the rest of you! __________________ ---- BWIA West Indies 1:400/200 final livery MD-83; oldest liveries: Viscount, Viking, DC-3; sandy livery: A321, DC-9-30, -80, 727, 707-138, -220) 1:250 scale? No, thank you. ---------------------------

12-10-2003, 05:06 AM	#14
R. Minor Mr. Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Orlando Age: 37 Posts: 4,426	Been waiting about seven months for one myself... __________________ Ron ~ MCO Fly Airbus Jets...

12-10-2003, 03:40 PM	#15
Haloweve Collector Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 75	I am at 5 months and counting on my first Bader. I personally don't mind paying the price upfront, but the incredible amount of time between ordering and recieving the aircraft as well as the lack of response from e-mails sent has me believing that this will be the only bader that I order (regardless of quality). There is alot to be said for I.G. (Instant Gratification). Haloweve

12-10-2003, 05:05 PM	#16
samu990 Senior Collector Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Houston TX USA Posts: 322	Twelve months on two models. Danny Samuels

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12-10-2003, 06:17 PM	#17
Ozz Insane Collector Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Canada (CYVR) Age: 52 Posts: 2,763	I just got an e-mail from Bader informing me that my CPA DC6B is enroute, oh yeah baby!! That just leaves one outstanding, the Gulf Air 67 I won in that "name the plane" contest and I can hardly be impatient for that to be made. Humble and patience go hand in hand. Let's hope that the rest of you get similar notes in the very near future. __________________ Ozz ORANGE IS BEAUTIFUL *GO WESTJET!!!* We need more CPAir/CDN and don't forget PWA and BA Landor!

12-12-2003, 04:17 PM	#19
niels Insane Collector Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: , Location, Location Posts: 1,608	Well, my 1:144 BW A340 arrived today. At the risk of being selfish, I am somewhat placated now. Hey, there was a new Bader brochure inside the box, with pictures of some of you guys (Ozz, Pinto, Eduardo) giving positive testimonials! __________________ ---- BWIA West Indies 1:400/200 final livery MD-83; oldest liveries: Viscount, Viking, DC-3; sandy livery: A321, DC-9-30, -80, 727, 707-138, -220) 1:250 scale? No, thank you. ---------------------------

12-12-2003, 05:44 PM	#20
PINTO Junior Collector Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Madeira Island-Portugal Posts: 47	My two models are flying . They will be my Christmas gifts . I would like that all of you,get similiar gifts from Bader ! Pinto

12-13-2003, 08:43 AM	#22
EastCoast Master Collector Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: Melville, NY Posts: 513	I just received an email that my two models have been mailed, just in time for Christmas! __________________ Ken (EastCoast)