WILLIAM NEWTON

ARE ATLANTICMODELS IN THE SAME CLASS AS PACMIN AND AMI MODELS IF SO CAN SOME,CAN SOME GIVE ME THE PRO AND CONS.

ANTHONY F DUVA JR

Hmmmm ... I know they're not metal, but they used to have a Southern Martin 404 in the range that I wanted, but I never bought ... does anybody here have one ? I think that they are more like the Air Jet Advance Models, made of some light resin or plastic material.

I have heard much about these "Pacmin" models but I don't have one of these either, I am more a toy guy although I like the 50s-60s metal display models by Raise-Up, Fermo, Verkuijl (can't find many for sale, though )

Did Pacmin used to be called Pacific Miniatures? Plane News did a mini-article on this firm in the 1990s. It was a prolific firm with many models in demand at the time.

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egonzinc

Pac Min and pacific Miniatures are the same.
The models are resin, are nice and are made mainly for the airlines and travel agents.
They don't always have REG numbers.
I have heard that are almost impossible to get custom made.
On the PacMin site there are links to the airlines thathave the models in their online shops.
The PacMin models do not have gear and all have a similar wood/metal stand.
Atlantic models are resin models and their stand looks like the PacMin stand.
The finishes of the PacMin and the Atlantic are nice and shiny, sometimes the Atlantic a bit too much so...
Check their web sites and yu will get a better idea.
Eduardo

SPEEDEMON

William

As Eduardo explained earlier, Pac-Min is Pacific Miniatures for short, which is the same company that has been around for over more than a half of a century. Their models are state of the art and have not been surpassed by anyone yet in the professional market of presentation-grade, promotional models for the airframe and airline industry.

I have been to the Atlantic Models factory in Miami, FL and have seen the Atlantic Models and their process on making these models. This is what I understand from the process of these two:

First of all Pac-Min builds their mold from the blueprints on a CAD system from the air-frame manufactures such as Boeing, Mc Donnell-Douglas etc. which their mold is cast out of solid metal which is very expensive, but can be used many times over and over without losing the accuracy.

Atlantic builds their molds out of rubber block which can be used several hundred time then has to be thrown away because the rubber will wear out due to heat and after so many use and lose the accuracy.

As I understand that the only company that have quality close to Pac-Min would be Space-Models out of England, but won't surpass the Pac-Min's.

Pac-Min does not do custom models for the public, but they do custom for their customers like Boeing and the airlines, which those companies can afford to hace them do a custom model like 1 of 1 item.

There was a guy serveral years ago named Hans Pennell, formerly of Classic Airliners which did custom contract work for Pac-Min and I was lucky enough to have him build me a couple of custom Pac-Min models. If you would like to see these models, here is a link to them:

http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...threadid=22363

I hope this info helps you on the difference in these two manufactures and if you like to learn more on Pac-Min here is a link to their site:

http://www.pacmin.com/


Thanks
Art



Here’s a couple of Pac-Min’s:

WILLIAM NEWTON

SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS PACMIN IS BETTER THAN ATLANTIC.

THANKS

SPEEDEMON

One other thing I left out earlier also is that the process of these two manufacture uses two different methods to mold their models is totally different. Pac-Min uses an injection process to inject the resin into the molds as Atlantic just pours the resin into their molds. What’s the difference you asked, the thing about it the injection process would be more compressed on the resin and eliminate more bubbles and gives you more solid models than the pouring process, which will not compress the resin and squeeze out the bubbles?

funbird

Pacmin, Space and AMI are far more accurate than Atlantic models by far.

SPEEDEMON

Funbird

What are the AMI models and where are they produced? Do they have a website?

I do admit that Atlantic's are far better than the Wesco's. I seen a few Wesco's and really can't comment much on them.

bigredvmi

I have a Space BAe-146 and it is fantastic.

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- Drew

Sell crazy somewere else were all stocked up here

funbird

The only source for AMI is Peter Jackson in England. His business Aviation models recently cut ties with AMI due to their extremely long wait times to receive models. I did see a Trans Caribbean 727-200 made by them in 1/100 scale. By far it was the most accurate and detailed 727 model i've ever seen. AMI however wanted 375 pounds for a single model not including shipping.

WILLIAM NEWTON

YES THEY ARE HIGH DOLLAR, BUT FROM THE PICTURE THAT ARE IN MAGAZINES THEY LOOK NICE.I SAW A PICTURE OF A 777-200LR PACMIN MODEL THE ORTHER DAY NOW THAT WAS NICE ALSO.

SPEEDEMON

Funbird

How can I get a hold of Peter Jackson? Does he have a website or an e-mail address? Is he still building models. Where can I find some information & photos of the AMI models or his models?

Roger

We cast our table top models with poly-urethane resin using silicone molds. We produce over 170 different types of aircraft, scales, and combinations. Some models are very low production (less than 10 per year like the S-40). Molds do wear out, but they do not change the shape of the model. These molds give us the flexibilty to produce special molds like the Jetblue A-320 with the fuselage mounted entertainment antenna. We produce both standard and special models for the airframe manufacturers, leasing companies, as well as the airlines, and collectors.
We work to build the models you want to own. Our policy is have you return (less freight)any model you are not completely satisfied with.
Atlantic Models is the only company that can say, "Built in the USA".

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dc7c

funbird

Try this address for Peter Jackson. aviation.models@virgin.net

WILLIAM NEWTON

I AM TRY TO SELL A PACMIN TO GET A ATLANTIC THAT I ORDER .ITS GOING TO BE A KLM 777-200 I THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE GREAT

Testpilot

Roger

Give us your take or your personal option on the die-cast molds, which Pac-Min uses, and silicone molds, which you use. Is there really much or any significant difference between the two? Is it true that the die-cast molds are pressured injected molds verses the pouring method on the silicone molds. On the pouring method how would you get all the bubbles out to get a solid mold? I understand the pressure injection squeezes out the bubbles with pressure to get a solid mold, but how does this work on your process. I’m getting real curious on this discussion. I would like to know more on the facts on this issue. Does anyone know what method is used on the Space models and the AMI’s?

One other thing isn’t the Pac-Min’s also built in the USA; California grown is what I heard in the past.


Thanks

Roger

Great questions. On injected molds, air/resin is pushed into the mold and out of gates built into the mold and these pieces are sprues. This production can be done quickly, accurately, and in large quantities per day. Molds can cost from $11,000.00 and up.Mold life is very long.
On pour casting with silicone rubber, we gate the mold as well, but typically make only 4-6 "pops" per day, per mold. Once out of the mold, the sprues are removed. So, we typically pour several molds per day. Key for a good cast is to properly clamp the mold, pour the resin at 70-80 degrees ambient air, and let it cure for 30-45 minutes before removing the piece from the mold. Fuselages take longer than vertical stabilizers because of the amount of material.
Bubbles in the cast(that can ruin a cast) are made because the resin is at a higher temperature than it should be going into the mold. It is already "kicking" when it is poured and does not allow for the bubbles to work there way up to the gates. Consequently, we mix our resin in an airconditioned room adjacent to the mold table. Once mixed, the resin begins to kick to about 200 degrees F. We will have tiny air bubbles at times. The cast is sanded and filled usually twice before we give the final primer coat. Any pin holes will show up in the paint process if it is not properly worked. It is our job to make sure that does not happen. We do not make "thousands" of any model. We make "a few" and "some" of alot of different airframes. We have chosen this path to have more variety to our passion.
Pacmin has moved part of their process to Mexico. I understand it has to do with the California paint emissions requirements. I would guess Pacmin is at least 15 times bigger than us. They are a great company on a different path than us. We feel
each model we build is a very personal purchase. We do not aspire to be as big as Pacmin.

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dc7c

Testpilot

Roger

Thanks for enlightening us on this issue. I have seen a couple of your models at shows here and there and they are nice, but just didn’t know much on the Atlantic’s and how much they differ compared to the Pacmin’s since I hear so much on the Pacmin’s. So you say you do custom models made to order as your geared towards the individuals wanting a 1 of a special model and Pacmin I hear basically is geared towards the corporate customers correct?

Do you know anything on the Space models and AMI’s since those names also keep popping up as I hear those names a lot also?


Thanks

Roger

you are welcome. The web address I have for Space Models is www.spacemodels.co.uk. I have nothing on AMI. I would prefer those individual companies explain what they do.....
Our web site is www.atlantic-models.com. The products listed are standard in the sense we have art work and airframes. We do specials (a few)that are outside the scope of those when we can. We try to serve any and all callers, including corporate customers. Our production is accustomed to quantities of one or more. Pacmin usually prefers to work corporate accounts. Pacmin retail outlet sales are usually handled by Don Kaylor at www.jetstreamsusa.com. He is a great guy and can be helpful in getting a variety of Pacmin models.

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dc7c

funbird

Space models won't sell their aircraft to individuals. They will sell to retail stores or corporations.