Bill-ay

Doug or anybody know if a model of this exists in N scale?

__________________
I all widebodied airbuses, except the bulbus A380


View my collection(if you really care, its only HE OG models).
http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...tion-4996.html


LONG LIVE THE DC-10/A300/A310/MD-80!!!



Billycwilt@jetphotos.net

Roarer

Yes, in all probability.


Most UK N models are made by a company called Grahame Farish.

I'll look it up myself if you want.

__________________
'Up close, the Britten Norman Islander has the air of a relic from a bygone era, but it is precisely that.
Built in the '80s to a 1960s design, this is a plane that first turned up for work when Prime Minister Harold Wilson wore a Gannex raincoat and the first coat of paint was still wet on Coronation Street.
But when the daily remit is multiple short hops between tiny bumpy strips in a climate that flickers from the blustery to the apocalyptic, this sturdy little craft is hard to beat.'

Bill-ay

Hi Doug,

thank for the info. Only if you want to look it up, no rush.

__________________
I all widebodied airbuses, except the bulbus A380


View my collection(if you really care, its only HE OG models).
http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...tion-4996.html


LONG LIVE THE DC-10/A300/A310/MD-80!!!



Billycwilt@jetphotos.net

Roarer

No, not really, but here's a start so you have some idea as to the manufacturer at least;

Graham Farish, The Home of "N" Scale Models

Model number,371-479,

HST 125 Set Intercity Swallow

You have to look for stockist, or, just hit Fleabay, there will be plenty about and for a fraction of the price quoted on the website probably too

__________________
'Up close, the Britten Norman Islander has the air of a relic from a bygone era, but it is precisely that.
Built in the '80s to a 1960s design, this is a plane that first turned up for work when Prime Minister Harold Wilson wore a Gannex raincoat and the first coat of paint was still wet on Coronation Street.
But when the daily remit is multiple short hops between tiny bumpy strips in a climate that flickers from the blustery to the apocalyptic, this sturdy little craft is hard to beat.'

Roarer

Some stockists do ship internationally, but I'm not sure quite who, as, well, I've never had to find out before!




By the way, in 1989, there probably still were some in the original Intercity 'Raspery ripple' livery, with yellow cab roofs and with the yellow extending along the bottom half of the body (as per the original 1976 Blue and yellow livery), but there also would have been some in the newer Swallow livery, which lasted up until privatisation, also.

__________________
'Up close, the Britten Norman Islander has the air of a relic from a bygone era, but it is precisely that.
Built in the '80s to a 1960s design, this is a plane that first turned up for work when Prime Minister Harold Wilson wore a Gannex raincoat and the first coat of paint was still wet on Coronation Street.
But when the daily remit is multiple short hops between tiny bumpy strips in a climate that flickers from the blustery to the apocalyptic, this sturdy little craft is hard to beat.'

Bill-ay

I cant find it on their site

__________________
I all widebodied airbuses, except the bulbus A380


View my collection(if you really care, its only HE OG models).
http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...tion-4996.html


LONG LIVE THE DC-10/A300/A310/MD-80!!!



Billycwilt@jetphotos.net

Roarer

Go to 'Products', then 'loco', then 'Diesel'.

http://www.grahamfarish.co.uk/prod.p...=farish&prod=1

Admitted, they also have DMUs in that list, which are NOT locos, but technically, an HST powercar is.

An HST Powercar is a class 43 by the way.

Normally, HSTs are sold as a trainset.

It also is only in recent years that the quality has started to improve, but to be honest with you, that HST looks ROUGH to me!!

If you want one, then you should be able to pick up a model for FAR less, I certainly wouldn't shell out £94, that's for sure!

You would, in truth, probably be better going for OO, as, the mould quality is FAR better, and it is better value for money.

Look at either Hornby or Lima for that.

Being at 1:76, that'd be too big for the rest of your collection though I guess.

__________________
'Up close, the Britten Norman Islander has the air of a relic from a bygone era, but it is precisely that.
Built in the '80s to a 1960s design, this is a plane that first turned up for work when Prime Minister Harold Wilson wore a Gannex raincoat and the first coat of paint was still wet on Coronation Street.
But when the daily remit is multiple short hops between tiny bumpy strips in a climate that flickers from the blustery to the apocalyptic, this sturdy little craft is hard to beat.'

Roarer

I'll ask about to see if there are any better models out there these days.

__________________
'Up close, the Britten Norman Islander has the air of a relic from a bygone era, but it is precisely that.
Built in the '80s to a 1960s design, this is a plane that first turned up for work when Prime Minister Harold Wilson wore a Gannex raincoat and the first coat of paint was still wet on Coronation Street.
But when the daily remit is multiple short hops between tiny bumpy strips in a climate that flickers from the blustery to the apocalyptic, this sturdy little craft is hard to beat.'

Bill-ay

Thanks for the info Dougie, your making my head spin!
Thanks for that linky. Thats a beautiful model.

__________________
I all widebodied airbuses, except the bulbus A380


View my collection(if you really care, its only HE OG models).
http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...tion-4996.html


LONG LIVE THE DC-10/A300/A310/MD-80!!!



Billycwilt@jetphotos.net

Roarer

I've only seen about 95% of the fleet before so I know what they REALLY look like, but, beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.


Actually, I have an Italian Railway friend and he loves the HSTs, purely because they are a different shape from everything else.

__________________
'Up close, the Britten Norman Islander has the air of a relic from a bygone era, but it is precisely that.
Built in the '80s to a 1960s design, this is a plane that first turned up for work when Prime Minister Harold Wilson wore a Gannex raincoat and the first coat of paint was still wet on Coronation Street.
But when the daily remit is multiple short hops between tiny bumpy strips in a climate that flickers from the blustery to the apocalyptic, this sturdy little craft is hard to beat.'

Roarer

9 or 10 years earlier from what you want, but here is one in original livery.

Dig that driver's pipe and tashe, more 1879 than 1979!! :

YouTube - Michael Palin Newcastle to Edinburgh 1979

Also, an official film from 1978 - oh I can feel the nostalgia drip off it. A nostalgia for the days when the trains actually ran properly that is!!

Anyway, if you can stand the music, then this is worth watching, and that is the HST prototype at the beginning by the way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdJB3N9pK0k


An amusing advert here, showing an HST in the second of the 3 versions of the intercity livery (blue, black, Swallow):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN7naLLeB0A


1991/2 now

That classic Paxman Valenta sound with the ear splitting whine!
Who said trains were environmentally friendly??
It's no wonder they are all getting new MTU engines to cut emissions. Unfortunately, gone too is that fantastic sound.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av8bl...eature=related

Watch the last sequence of all, from 7:10 onwards, that was the sound!!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Tho...eature=related

__________________
'Up close, the Britten Norman Islander has the air of a relic from a bygone era, but it is precisely that.
Built in the '80s to a 1960s design, this is a plane that first turned up for work when Prime Minister Harold Wilson wore a Gannex raincoat and the first coat of paint was still wet on Coronation Street.
But when the daily remit is multiple short hops between tiny bumpy strips in a climate that flickers from the blustery to the apocalyptic, this sturdy little craft is hard to beat.'

Hapag-Lloyd

HSTs are absolutely not my cup of tea. Give me an ETR 500 politensione any day, or an ICE-T, or a TGV Thalys. But, please, no HSTs.

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THIS SPACE 4 RENT!!!

Roarer

Bill-ay, if you ever fly to Heathrow, get the train to somewhere like Acton, Ealing or Southall. There, you will see HSTs screaming past at high speed going in and out of Paddington.


Or even better, get to somewhere like Didcot.

HST are best seen at high speed!

__________________
'Up close, the Britten Norman Islander has the air of a relic from a bygone era, but it is precisely that.
Built in the '80s to a 1960s design, this is a plane that first turned up for work when Prime Minister Harold Wilson wore a Gannex raincoat and the first coat of paint was still wet on Coronation Street.
But when the daily remit is multiple short hops between tiny bumpy strips in a climate that flickers from the blustery to the apocalyptic, this sturdy little craft is hard to beat.'

Roarer

It is the shape of the cab that he likes. Almost like an arrow.

The HSTs hold the distinction of being the world's fastest Diesels and would give enough thrash and clag to boot.
They were a revolution, because they didn't need expensive catenary or line upgrades, they simply could go cross country at high speed with the existing infrastructure!

The HST is the all purpose High Speed Train!

Nice to see BR did at least ONE thing right, and, in fact, would have got the APT up and working too if they had had the chance.

I like electrics, don't get me wrong, but something with a bit of character. A Bendylino (APT was THE original, it wasn't an italian invention at all), ICE or TGV are a bit too clinical and boring in comparison.

How many TGVs have you ever seen, clagging badly with black oil streaked down the side where there has been some leakage, and are still charging across the countryside regardless??

You see, the HSTs are real Muckas, not something that has to be handled with kid gloves.

One of my favourite experiences with them was when I was traveling over the Lickey incline towards Birmingham one time.
There was an HST in front, and it's front power car had failed, meaning the powercar at the rear was badly struggling (Lickey is one of the steepest and notorious inclines in the UK).
So, we had to get up behind it, and after several goes, meaning that we rolled away backwards again, we got coupled up! (most HSTs do not have buffers, so use a long metal bar instead).
Then, from a standing start on the steepest of UK inclines, we were treated to the noise of two powercars right next to each other, and also ours on the rear, working the very hardest you will ever hear them work. One powercar is deafening, so imagine what THIS was like!!
It was quite a spectacle, not just for the racket, but because HSTs never run in 2s, so to see two complete sets coupled up is RARE!
Once over the summit, we we uncoupled again and off we toddled.

The point is, the HST is a truly iconic design, it's right up there with all the best, but how many of those designs could put up a real performance like that, without it just being another boring formality??

HSTs do it like troopers, can do it anywhere, and have been for the last 32 years, that's all you have to remember.

__________________
'Up close, the Britten Norman Islander has the air of a relic from a bygone era, but it is precisely that.
Built in the '80s to a 1960s design, this is a plane that first turned up for work when Prime Minister Harold Wilson wore a Gannex raincoat and the first coat of paint was still wet on Coronation Street.
But when the daily remit is multiple short hops between tiny bumpy strips in a climate that flickers from the blustery to the apocalyptic, this sturdy little craft is hard to beat.'

Roarer

TGV, ICE, etc etc, are a bit, ho hum in comparison.

Stand next to HSTs long enough and the things will make you deaf as well as probably give you asthma into the bargain!!

__________________
'Up close, the Britten Norman Islander has the air of a relic from a bygone era, but it is precisely that.
Built in the '80s to a 1960s design, this is a plane that first turned up for work when Prime Minister Harold Wilson wore a Gannex raincoat and the first coat of paint was still wet on Coronation Street.
But when the daily remit is multiple short hops between tiny bumpy strips in a climate that flickers from the blustery to the apocalyptic, this sturdy little craft is hard to beat.'

Hapag-Lloyd

It doesn´t get much classier in diesel than these here (imho, anyway):


DB VT11.5


SNCF RGP 825


FS ETR 300 "Settebello" (ok, not exactly a diesel... )

My current favorites (as far as high speed is concerned):


FS ETR 500


DSB IC3


DBAG ICE 3 (class 403)


SNCF TGV Thalys

"Ho-hum", eh?

all pictures (c) of their respective owners

__________________
THIS SPACE 4 RENT!!!

Roarer

Some, such as the TEE, etc are nice yes. The HST isn't a special train though, - instead of there being 5 TEE units, or whatever it was, there were 191 HST power cars built, to serve the population nationwide.

Thalys is a nice livery and all and both Resau and Duplex units look good, I'll grant you. I've never been too sure about those strange looking flat rubber fronted ones you get in the likes of Denmark (IC3) and Belgium though. But yes, ho hum - all they are, are the same basic generic designs of EMU with no real character. Dare I utter the P word??
Yes, they go fast and look impressive, but they are all the same really, depending on manufacturer of course.

More variety would be good, and I've always liked the original Italian Pendolinos from about 1986, because they somehow look so old fashioned, whereas, stylistically, most others are the complete opposite, or at least try to be.

In the UK, we were spoiled by the 1955 modernisation plan you see. We here have/had a huge amount of different designs and classes than they do in other countries like, say, Italy, where they would just update a design. My friend just couldn't get over how many types we have or have had since about 1957!!

We had everything from the downright bizarre 'Fell' loco and the Co-Bo, to the hugely successful class 20s and '37s, etc!

By the way, I've always liked German Railways due to all the many many different classes of loco.

__________________
'Up close, the Britten Norman Islander has the air of a relic from a bygone era, but it is precisely that.
Built in the '80s to a 1960s design, this is a plane that first turned up for work when Prime Minister Harold Wilson wore a Gannex raincoat and the first coat of paint was still wet on Coronation Street.
But when the daily remit is multiple short hops between tiny bumpy strips in a climate that flickers from the blustery to the apocalyptic, this sturdy little craft is hard to beat.'

Hapag-Lloyd

18 TEE trains, plus one spare head end unit. Some were converted to gas turbines instead of diesel motors, however, the dawn of the diesel was nay back then in Germany, and the introduction of the classes 103.1 and 151 made them seem outdated, noisy, dirty, old-fashioned.

Maybe the UK engines have their advantages, but in essence, compared to other European and American engines, the British designs seem rather inefficient and troublesome. This imho can even be seen in the most recent class 66 engines, which are (again, imho) fugly as hell, and as crappy as can be in terms of build quality, the motor and most notable, the brakes. On the other hand, these engines have been designed and built to do a specific job on a specific road, so possibly they are faring pretty well in the UK.

Also, please don´t overlook that continental European high-speed passenger trains were normally - until recently - locomotive plus coaches, rather than trainsets. A class 110, 103.1, 120.1 plus a couple of coaches. But even today, when I look at e.g. German designs such as the Hercules diesel engine, the Taurus engines, the Traxx engines, these are very distinct designs, very capable, and of course very versatile; these can replace any trainset, and the engines can be utilized in a way more flexible manner than a trainset ever could be.

As of 1979, the date in your movie clip, that year the DB had their last newly built diesel engine go into sevice, and the class 120 was introduced to pull high-speed trains. Beauty is, of course, in the eye of the beholder, but technologically, the class 120 and the HST are worlds apart (keep in mind that the ICE 1 evolved from the class 120.1 engines).

I think it is safe to say that while the UK invested heavily in new equipment rather than the infrastructure itself, continental Europe went the other way, setting up electric catenery systems wherever possible.

You may have noticed that the high speed trains have two distinct designs, one is two head-end units with some coaches inbetween (ICE 1, ETR 500, TGV), the other has the electrics, transformers, motors spread around the train like the IC 3 and the ICE 3. To me, they are very distinct designs, and you can see where they are coming from (the designs, not the trains) when you look at how they are built and what they are supposed to do - a Danish IC 3 train would make absolutely no sense on an Italian "Direttissima", and the TGVs don´t really offer you a good ride on older tracks (France has built new trackage for their high.speed trains).

__________________
THIS SPACE 4 RENT!!!

Roarer

Fair enough.

That what was meant about the modernisation programme - just about everyone built locos, and most were complete disaster areas because BR rushed into it all too quickly instead of keeping steam a few more years like you lot did.
However, there are other classes which have been in service for at least 50 years, so, err, they cannot be THAT troublesome.
I know what you mean though, when the class 59s appeared from Canada, the difference was night and day. The main problem in the UK though is lack of funding. It isn't so much that the trains are bad, it's just the level of maintenance.

Having said that though, we don't seem able to build anything in the UK these days due to inefficient management, etc. Don't worry, we know ALL about it and it's quite frankly, painful to watch

Err, you do realise that the class 66s are later versions of the class 59, a class which is built by General Motors. In Canada!!

And yes, they are crap and generally derided by all but the companies who seem to be pumping Europe full of the ruddy things now purely because they are cheap and work straight off the boat.

I do not think any class really was designed for a specific route or anything, except for the occasional few. The most successful classes in the UK have proven to be the ones that are the most versatile, the ones that can do anything. The often humble, 'Salt of the Earth' classes.

What the UK did have that most other countries didn't, was a design council, so many classes were designed to look generally pleasing. Some, did seem to fall through the net, but those were generally gone by about 1971 anyway.

I see GE are wanting to introduce new locos here for Freightliner, but looking at the design, quite frankly, they look completely and utterly BARKING!!

One just hopes they make it a bit better when it comes to the real thing!!

I know, give me a locohauled any day! A class 103 on an Intercity - NOW we are talking!

That was what I was saying about how I do like German railways for the variety, that even now, still exists.
Though, having said that, some classes all looked the same really to me, such as class 139, 140,'141,'150,'151 ... etc etc. You really need something startlingly bad to break up that monotony like a class 155 or a '180 every so often

I like the Taurus locos, very sleek, elegant, graceful, effortless. Just a pity the red liveries make them look fat, give me one in MAV livery over any of the others!
I've seen pictures of the Hercs and I suppose they look good also in a big chunky kind of way. Nothing to go wrong anyway.

The one thing that I have against many of the new German locos though like the class 101, 145, 146, 185, etc, is that, yet again, they all have those big, plain, boring flat fronts. At least with the Taurus, they actually decided to do something about it!
I'm sorry, but after having something interesting like a class 103, which, was once described to me as looking like 'A German sausage on wheels', it's then a total disappointment to then have a replacement that looks so boring and plain like a class 101 or a 145.

Quite, hence one of the reasons why I was a bit lukewarm about them.
An HST has a loco at each end, so in theory can be rather quite flexible. Not as flexible as if they had had a second, flat (and ugly) cab at the other end of the loco like a class 91 does, but, flexible enough nonetheless.

Also, listen, I don't hate these high speed units or anything, other than their performance characteristics, I just find them a bit bland, that's all.

One of your Bunnies by any chance??

That, I have no doubt! the HST was made almost from scratch by the technical guys at Derby, a bespoke, so, it's hardly surprising.

Yes and bought decent catenary too, instead of the knitting we have here which falls down every time there is a slight breeze

I did say that there were one or two variations/types, but on the whole .....
Anyway, yes the APT had power coaches like that in it, meaning that they had to have 2 lots of everything for each part of the train as it was effectively split in two!

Thanks to Maggie Thatcher's railway hating Government, this programme was scrapped in 1986, despite the fact that with a bit more funding, it would have worked.
The Italians then got hold of it and developed it, and now, we have Pendolinos with Virgin West coast. Trains which, at Crewe, run right past a preserved APT.
The irony, eh??

The HST was left to carry the flag alone. The plan had been to have the HST on cross country and unelectrified routes, and the APT on mainly the twisty West Coast Route, complementing each other.
Instead we had AC electrics like the Hellfire '87s running until 2005 with virgin West Coast, the people who then EVENTUALLY replaced them with Pendos!

Now the '87s are being exported to Bulgaria!

Talking of Thatcher, it is said that the railways got noticeably worse from 1979 onwards, when She came to power.

Anyway, I'm digressing, I'm digressing!
Now, where was I?

What I like about looking at foreign railways is all the different ways that they have gone about solving the same problems.
Aviation seems to be much more international, but railways mainly all seem to be on a country by country basis, and I like the variety that brings.

Talking of the TGVs, I was on a Thalys once, and the moment it hit Belgian track after about Aachen, you knew ALL about it!
Still better than British track probably though!

__________________
'Up close, the Britten Norman Islander has the air of a relic from a bygone era, but it is precisely that.
Built in the '80s to a 1960s design, this is a plane that first turned up for work when Prime Minister Harold Wilson wore a Gannex raincoat and the first coat of paint was still wet on Coronation Street.
But when the daily remit is multiple short hops between tiny bumpy strips in a climate that flickers from the blustery to the apocalyptic, this sturdy little craft is hard to beat.'