Authentic German markings

gospodin

This may be a touchy subject, but I was talking with a friend today, and he mentioned that having an authentically marked German WWII aircraft model (i.e., with swastika) is almost impossible to obtain in Germany, and even illegal. This can't be right... While I lived in Germany, two of my friends were into modeling and had several models with fully authentic markings on them. Does this maybe apply to models made in Germany, and the only illegal items are anything glorifying Nazis, like war memorabilia or flags/clothing? I'm curious, since this would seem excessive.

dboyd001

Quote: Originally Posted by gospodin This may be a touchy subject, but I was talking with a friend today, and he mentioned that having an authentically marked German WWII aircraft model (i.e., with swastika) is almost impossible to obtain in Germany, and even illegal. This can't be right... While I lived in Germany, two of my friends were into modeling and had several models with fully authentic markings on them. Does this maybe apply to models made in Germany, and the only illegal items are anything glorifying Nazis, like war memorabilia or flags/clothing? I'm curious, since this would seem excessive.

Direct from Wikipedia:

Quote: Originally Posted by Wikipdeia The German (and Austrian) postwar criminal code makes the public showing of the Hakenkreuz (the swastika) and other Nazi symbols illegal and punishable, except for scholarly reasons. It is even censored from the lithographs on boxes of model kits, and the decals that come in the box. It is also censored from the reprints of 1930s railway timetable published by Bundesbahn. The eagle remains, but appears to be holding a solid black circle between its talons. The swastikas on Hindu and Jain temples are exempt, as religious symbols cannot be banned in Germany. A German fashion company was investigated for using traditional British-made folded leather buttons after complaints that they resembled swastikas. In response, Esprit destroyed two hundred thousand catalogues.[45][46] A controversy was stirred by the decision of several police departments to begin inquiries against anti-fascists.[47] In late 2005 police raided the offices of the punk rock label and mail order store "Nix Gut Records" and confiscated merchandise depicting crossed-out swastikas and fists smashing swastikas. In 2006 the Stade police department started an inquiry against anti-fascist youths using a placard depicting a person dumping a swastika into a trashcan. The placard was displayed in opposition to the campaign of right-wing nationalist parties for local elections.[48] On Friday, March 17, 2006, a member of the Bundestag Claudia Roth reported herself to the German police for displaying a crossed-out swastika in multiple demonstrations against Neo-Nazis, and subsequently got the Bundestag to suspend her immunity from prosecution. She intended to show the absurdity of charging anti-fascists with using fascist symbols: "We don't need prosecution of non-violent young people engaging against right-wing extremism." On March 15, 2007, the Federal Court of Justice of Germany (Bundesgerichtshof) reversed the above-mentioned verdicts, since the crossed-out symbols were "clearly directed against a revival of national-socialist endeavors", hereby settling the dispute for the future.[49] [50] [51] The relevant excerpt[52] of the German criminal code reads: § 86 StGB Dissemination of Means of Propaganda of Unconstitutional Organizations (1) Whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda: 1. of a party which has been declared to be unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court or a party or organization, as to which it has been determined, no longer subject to appeal, that it is a substitute organization of such a party; […] 4. means of propaganda, the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former National Socialist organization, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. […] (3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. […] § 86a StGB Use of Symbols of Unconstitutional Organizations (1) Whoever: 1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (§ 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in § 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or 2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. (2) Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto. […]

Dave

Mystère

Nowadays most model kits coming from Japan don't have these markings (at least in their "full form", sometimes you can find them on decals, but in several parts). Maybe you never paid attention, but every picture of a DW WWII era German aircraft is without them (don't know about models themselves, I guess they don't sport them either). Even in France it's illegal : my father, who used to collect military swords and knives, told me that $$ daggers, which sported a swastika, had it to be hidden with a sticker, or even couldn't be shown at all, depending upon the policemen mood while they visited the show before its opening...

gospodin

Quote: Originally Posted by Mystère Nowadays most model kits coming from Japan don't have these markings (at least in their "full form", sometimes you can find them on decals, but in several parts). Maybe you never paid attention, but every picture of a DW WWII era German aircraft is without them (don't know about models themselves, I guess they don't sport them either). Even in France it's illegal : my father, who used to collect military swords and knives, told me that $$ daggers, which sported a swastika, had it to be hidden with a sticker, or even couldn't be shown at all, depending upon the policemen mood while they visited the show before its opening...

Yes, I've noticed this about a good many models made in China and Japan not sporting the "Hakenkreuz". The DW and ModelPower products don't have them, and this is annoying to a history buff like me, since that was a distinctive feature of those aircraft. I'm working to make some decals to cover this problem...but making itty bitty swastikas sounds kind of weird...

gospodin

Thanks, Dave, for the interesting article.

centaur747

Growing up in Germany my Italeri, Hasegawa and Fujimi kits came with blacked out swastikas on the Decal sheet. As a young boy I had no idea what was underneath the neatly placed black squares. Then I spent a summer in California and bought a Hasegawa Focke Wulf.....what a surprise this decal sheet was!

German modelers now display their authentic models with a paper draped over the Nazi insignia at model shows. Revell kits lack the insignia on the box art.

Overall I think it is a very good law, since the Nazi's appropriated a holy symbol used in many cultures (south asia comes to mind) and totally abused its meaning and symbolism. Best not to allow glorification of this abuse.

dc-8-556

The swastika is a symbol of evil as most of us see it. Nazi Germany. Germany though is not an evil country. I have a problem when something like the swastika is deleted from history. I understand why, but it shouldn't be done. It happened. It is part of what happened in OUR world. Not a good thing, but don't eradicate it from our past. History should be left for what REALLY happened, the good , the bad, and the ugly. In this case it was the ugly, but it happened.

Roarer

There is an electric loco in a museum in Nuremberg that was about at the time, and HAS the swastikas, etc on it.
It is, after all, part of history too, like it or lump it.


Railfaneurope.net, The European Railway Server

Oh crap, the link isn't working correctly.

Ok, go to the flags down the left hand side, select Germany, go to 'Electric', scroll right down and go to 'Historic', and then choose 'Class E19'.

I'm so glad they had the guts to do that.

SDF

We have a similarm, problem in the States on the displaying of the Confederate Flag

Mystère

Interestingly enough, some of our Armée de l'Air fighters do wear a kind of swastika !! They're from the Lafayette squadron. Take a close look at the Indian head :



You'll see it better here :



Weird isn't it ? But shhh, don't tell anybody !...

Chansen

Quote: Originally Posted by Mystère Interestingly enough, some of our Armée de l'Air fighters do wear a kind of swastika !! They're from the Lafayette squadron. Take a close look at the Indian head : You'll see it better here : Weird isn't it ? But shhh, don't tell anybody !...

Came from Lafayette Escadrille!
To restate.

Lafayette Escadrille

Lafayette Escadrille - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia