C-Rex

I thought this was an interesting article.

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Published Friday, November 16th 2007 by CommonDreams.org
Grannies Urge Closing the US Bases on Foreign Soil
by Joan Wile

The grannies have done it again — been in the vanguard striking at another dangerous policy of the United States — the presence and proliferation of U.S. military bases on foreign soil. Several members of the Granny Peace Brigade had attended the meeting of the Women’s International Democratic Federation (WIDF) in Caracas, Venezuela in April 2007, a meeting at which approximately 1,000 women from all over the world were present. The U.S. group was shocked to learn of the universal outrage that representatives from other countries expressed about the United States military bases that devastate communities and pollute them with crime, sexual assaults, depleted uranium, environmental degradation and more, and our grannies determined to do something about it. On Sunday, November 11, Veteran’s Day, the Granny Peace Brigade held a teach-in St. Mark’s Church in New York City, a first, entitled: “Close Guantanamo and All U.S. Bases on Foreign Soil.”

At present, the Pentagon admits to maintaining 737 bases in 130 countries on every continent except Antarctica. There are 100 bases in Japan, for instance, 100 in Italy, and the list goes obnoxiously on. Plans are in progress for opening new ones — in Poland, In Czechoslovakia, and elsewhere, and, now, if you can believe it, schemes are afoot by the U.S. for militarizing SPACE!

Continue the article here: Grannies Urge Closing the US Bases on Foreign Soil - CommonDreams.org

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I have read about alot of random stuff via www. But I guess I have missed out the fact that the US had 100 bases alone in Japan, another 100 in Italy. That's a suprising numbers, I had imagined about 3 or 4 US bases on japanese soils. But is this for real ? Anyway I hope this has caught your attention, I'm not american, and I dont know why I brought it up, anyway I just thought it was interesting. Let me know your opinions whether you think the US should shut down its US bases on foreign soils. Thanks.

Mystère

I have no particular opinion on whether or not US should close these bases, but if people there really behave as quoted then something must be done about it.
BTW, base does not mean AIRbase, there is Navy, Marines and Army too.
Grannies rule !

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Darryl

I agree. Let’s pull out and let these places defend themselves for a change. I am sure that many of these regions around the world are well accustomed to peace and security and are ready to take a stand against evil. Hey, we greedy Americans need the money at home, too.

BTW, did this so-called "Women's Conference" get around to condemning how Islam suppresses, degrades and abuses women, oh, and don't forget to mention Communist China. And this is just for starters.

Oh well, this is one of the ill effects of a free society - Every crackpot can shoot off their mouths no matter how insane and asinine they are.

gospodin

As a former military member, and having been stationed in Germany twice, I wonder about the "devastated communities", crime, pollution, depleted uranium (oh yeah, we just sling that stuff everywhere), sexual assaults and environment degradation. The US pays vast amounts of money to these host nations for the leasing of bases and facilities. Any damages are compensated generously (no s**t, I've seen the invoices), the sexual assaults happen very infrequently, in most cases less than in areas farther away from the bases (they are just presented very loudly by the press, who love to humiliate the US military any chance it gets), and crime in general is minimal, about what any military base would have around it, foreign or American. In fact, there is more crime around bases located in the States than overseas. There are that many facilities located around the world, because they count maintenance facilities at civilian airports, commisaries and bx/px outlets, recruiting stations, embassies and consulates that have military members present, radar and communication facilities, etc...the list is long, and most of these facilities only have a few personnel working at them. After all that is said, I think it's prbably time to start thinking of coming home, closing these facilities. The world has changed, and America is not welcome as the Savior of the Free World anymore. We had to know this was coming....

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Steve


The one thing I've learned on this forum is "Don't argue with an idiot". Other people reading may not be able to tell the difference....

Mystère

And you're obviously drawing benefit of this freedom too...

Gospodin, thank you for your insight. I have no doubt about overall good behaviour and compensations when it comes to countries such as Germany, but I'm not too sure about others less "developped", where most Western people (not only US) could be a little careless about regulations (if there's some). I guess that's what these women were talking about.

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Darryl

Point proven all the way around, “Mystery Man.” BTW, thank the U.S. Military that you still speak French. I also sense a little backpedaling in your reply as to “Western people” being careless of local regulations (if any). And I suppose that there has never been a revolt for independence against France? Abuse of the locals? Nah, never!

Ah c'mon, you knew I could not pass that one up. Just messin' with you, good buddy.

I agree with the previous that military bases can be a boom for local communities. In Italy, the Aviano base is loved by the locals and they appreciate what the base has done for the economy. The Air Force encouraged personnel to live among the Italians, learn Italian and the customs as well. A very nice, loving and kind people the Italians. In fact, everytime the local Communist group would protest the US presence and attempt to disrupt operations, the locals would beat them back and defend the Air Force in anyway that they could. As I said, love those Italians. This is the stuff that the news never reports. Heaven forbid a U.S. military member should ever kick a dog - Off with their heads!

Protesting the good done around the world by whoever makes as much sense as protesting gravity. Sure you have a right to protest, but does it make you sane. I almost wish we were as bad as the world claims, as we would completely own Kuwait and Iraq outright and all of our oil problems would eliminated. Every country has its crackpots, and believe me the U.S. State Department has its share, but shall we continue to blame the whole for the indiscretion of the few (or the one)?

gospodin

Yes, God bless the Italians...they are about the only NATO member who likes having the Americans stationed in their country. Maybe The Netherlands, too. Britain has always viewed us as a necessary evil, and they are courteous and civil, but a bit cool to Americans in general...they like us, but in our own neighborhood. The Germans changed a lot in the two times I was stationed there: in the 70's, they were very friendly and open for the most part; in the 90's, the attitude was, "The Russians went home. Now it's time for you to do the same". Right after Reunification, everything changed, and many of the Germans I met were very cool, if not rude to me. I still love Germany, but they make you aware that they are very proud of their country and not too fond of "occupiers" anymore. Japan would also like us to leave, but will never tell us to go as long as they are uncertain about Korea and China. The French kicked us out long ago in a dispute over NATO leadership, and resigned from that organization...we can thank that stinker, De Gaulle, for that. Protecting our "friends" has proved a thankless job, and we just need to acknowledge that the world wants to go its own way, America is not the planetary policeman.

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Steve


The one thing I've learned on this forum is "Don't argue with an idiot". Other people reading may not be able to tell the difference....

Darryl

Amen, Gospodin, Amen.

dboyd001

..... I give the raging grannies the same due now I gave them 30-40 years ago when they were young stupid chicks protesting Viet Nam. Now they've had all this time to refine their stupidity. Back then they did all they could to undermine me and the rest that were in Viet Nam. They were responsible for the US Congress pulling the rug out from under the S Viet Nam government after the Treaty of Paris and after US troops had all left. The North Vietnamese broke the treaty and invaded to conquer the South. That was OK with the then young raging grannies. They are trying to do the same with the troops over there now. Worked once, didn't it?
..... As for friends of the U.S. around the world, the governments may scorn us, but I do know many peoples in those "neutral", "unfriendly" or "hostile" countries love Americans and want to come here to live. My wife is from Indonesia and believe me she is the envy of everyone in her family and old friends. A number of them have managed to get visas to come to the US or Canada to live. Many of my own Canadian relatives and family are on the South side of the border for a lot of reasons too. Don't get me wrong, I love Canada (the Maritimes mostly since that's where I'm from), but I can afford to live here (including getting health care).
..... A lot of Americans diss France, but I do know some of the U.S.' best friends are in Northern France. They still remember men who came ashore on 6 June 1944 to begin the liberation of they country. They see the cemeteries and graves of the thousands of soldiers who died on that day and the weeks to come.
..... I heard a story the other day that people in other countries have a more favorable image of the U.S. than people in the U.S.! I think all too often Americans are being told on TV news how bad the U.S. is and how the rest of the world hate it. Just isn't true. A small sampling here on DAC shows me there are no hate-filled grudges among non-U.S. members. Sure, a little kidding, but good natured. Other people I know in many other countries also are the same.
..... And when in other countries over the years I made special efforts to be courteous and respectful. Even though much of it I was carrying a Canadian passport, I was often mistaken for an American (though in PRC & Hong Kong the locals somehow thought I was a Kiwi for some reason?). Being respectful I was given it in return. I made friends at the railway station in Sigonella, Sicily and they let met go on a e636 locomotive one day to do shunting in the yard for a couple hours. I wish all Americans comported themselves properly and I always grimaced that the US sailors passed out drunk or walking around spouting profanity was going to be the lasting impression those people would have. Just unpleasant.
..... I don't and never will think that people around the world hate the U.S. Some do of course and some governments are unfriendly or hostile. I do see on a daily basis American who seem to hate their own country and wonder what people elsewhere in the world think when they see that. The raging grannies (I have a different, let polite name for them) and Code Pink (ditto) are just two loud, visible hate-America groups.
..... And in the words of Forrest Gump, that's all I have to say about that.
Dave

Planecrazy

I am very conservative and I don't see the need for our military welfare program to the World. The cold war is over. The need for European bases is over. European NATO forces have sufficient forces to defend themselves in any conventional warfare situation.

The Pacific Rim does not need us there either. Again, on a conventional forces basis our friends in the area, including South Korea, have sufficient forces to defend themselves.

These bases are not needed to defend the United States. Our spending on them are increasing our problems maintaining our military forces to defend the U.S. and the dollar outflow contributes to the devaluation of the dollar. It also allows these countries to sell products to the United States at lower prices than U.S. manufacturers since they presently have to spend less of their Gross Domestic Product on their national defense.

It is time for our forces to pack up and come home.

Mystère

That old riddle... Thank us for not having to drink tea at five o'clock too. No backpedaling, I'm not an "anti-US" and that's what I was trying to show. Yes we made mistakes or have been rude with many people around the world in the past (and still nowadays, which I'm really ashamed of), now shouldn't it be a reason for USA to try to do better, rather than using it as an excuse for its debatable behaviours ?

I'm not the kind who could let it pass either....

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Darryl

Yeah, let's just put the bad past behind and actually learn from it.

Thanks, Mystere.

champpitbull2

I'm a bit late on this one, but I have been kind of busy lately. This article is very misleading. 737 bases around the world? They must be including every consulate, embassy, military exchange program, base, and who knows what else to come up with that number. The US military with all Active Duty, Guard and Reserves combined is around 2 million people. That means if all of those bases overseas had equal amounts of troops they would each have roughly around 2700 troops a piece without any being stationed in the US. As you can see that just isn't possible with many active duty bases in the US that have over 20,000 service members a piece.
A side from being a HUGE economic plus for those countries, they are essential for many of the US missions. Mildenhall, Spangdahlem, Ramstein, Moron, Souda Bay, Kadena, and The Azores, and so on are essential stop over points for US aircraft on there way throughout the world.

We afford that same courtesy to foreign militaries. The street isn't one way. If you venture to many US bases there are members from our allies there in significant numbers. Sheppard AFB trains many pilots for countries throughout NATO. Kirtland AFB trains pilots for numerous countries on flying the F-16. Mcghee Tyson in Tennesee is giving up its mission to train foreign militaries in flying the C-130. A Guard base in Ohio is a main hub for RNAF pilots learning to fly the F-16. That is just a small sample of bases in the US with foreign troops. The US and her allies benifit tremendously from these programs because it allows an exchange of ideas, customs and understanding amongst militaries which is more important than ever with joint military operations going on all over the world in places like Bosnia, Afghanistan and Iraq.
I was stationed in Germany for 2 years at the only operational NATO base in the world from 1999 to 2001. I had varying experiences with all sorts of people from every country in NATO. Geilenkirchen does not have any on base housing so I lived in a small German town on the Dutdh border. The one thing I learned was to NOT paint every person from every nationality with one brush. Just because a government says one thing doesn't mean the entire population agrees. The highlight of my time there was talking to all of these people from so many walks of life about life. It was funny to sit there with some of my German buddies who grew up in East Germany, and to listen to them tell me how they were once trained to kill and hate Americans. All the while we were at a bar trying to pick up girls together.

My wife is German which is ironic because her father was a Colonel in the Luftwaffe and her mother is from Yorkshire in the UK. I still travel back and forth to Germany and England. I can read the papers and watch the TV and see what the opinion is of the US war in Iraq. But when I meet someone new it seems as though those issues are the last things on there mind.

I have encountered people that have hated me just for being American. Trust me, they have the scars to prove it. As big as those incidences stick out in my mind, I can recall many more times where the people were very welcoming. I have been to 13 different countries and I have had only a few bad experiences.
The media is full of crap. When you get down to talking with a person from another country one on one it becomes obvious that we are more alike than different and that we have many of the same hopes, dreams, aspirations, likes, dislikes and so on. Just look at this forum for proof.

There are cultural differences between the US military members and the countries that host them. Everything isn't roses. However the communities and countries that do host US military bases benifit greatly economiclly, militarily, culturally and socially. So do we.