D-AIHC

Ever since you and Mystere encouraged me to try gliding (in this thread:
http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/...1-hello-3.html), I can't help but wonder more about it each day. Coincidentally, I also have a friend whose dad build gliders and he showed me a magazine article featuring his dad. I can't quite remember which magazine and which edition it was but I'll try to contact him and find out. I'm not too sure if there will be an opportunity to make a gliding flight possible but nevertheless, I'd like to find out more, hence this thread! Please be patient with me if I seem to be asking trivial questions as I have no knowledge at all regarding gliding - it's all curiousity and educating myself at the moment.

Does that mean that there won't be a need for a tow launch? What are the pros and cons for both types of launches? Or does it depend on other factors if you self-launch or launch via tow?

Is the 'triangle' flight path using two turnpoints mostly used in gliding? What about an 'oval' flightpath? Or even landing at a different location you started from? You said you needed to make a flight in excess of 500km - is that part of the certification process?

What kind of weather is defined as good enough for 500km? What about 300km? Does a glider have a ceiling altitude, as specified by the manufacturer?

As difficult it may seem, but I think it was all good getting to spend time with your family!

How would one achieve that? Is there a special type of glider for long-distance gliding? Do you need to be certified to be able to attempt that kind of distance?

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Lufthansa - Star Alliance member since 1997

GliderPilot

I'm glad you are interested in the subject. I will gladly answer your questions.

Q1. Yes, a self launching glider has a small powerful engine that folds out of a compartment behind the cockpit and allows the pilot to be independant of ground helpers. You can just get in, start and take off. When high enough, stop the motor and fly like a conventional glider. If you run out of lift, get the engine out again and climb to a better height or return home/continue to your destination. However in the UK you need a different type of licence to fly this type. There is another type of glider called a "sustainer" or more popularly known as a "turbo" that works more or less the same way but the engine isn't as powerful and will not develop enough power to get the glider off the ground. It has to be towed off the ground by a tow plane but once airborne, if you get low, pop out the turbo and either motor home or climb to a higher altitude and then start gliding again. Aerotow launches require a tow plane with a pilot and someone to hold the wingtip to level the wings and run alongside the glider until the controls become effective and the pilot can balance the glider on the one wheel during the ground run. Self launchers don't require either.

Q2. Triangles with two turning points are the most common, however 3 or more can be used, but each one usually only once if the flight is for what is known as a "badge flight" (More on this later)

GliderPilot

Q3. No we don't usually fly ovals.

Sometimes we fly to another destination. For the FAI Silver badge, one of the requirements is to fly a cross country distance of about 50 kilometers, doesn't sound much, but it is a physcological hurdle to fly away from the comfort of your home airfield for what is usually the first time. For my Silver distance flight I flew 70kms in a low performance glider (Alexander Sleicher ASK8). I landed at another gliding site and then the tow plane for my club came out and towed the plane back flown by an instructor, and I sat in the back of the tow plane. (A Piper Cub).

Usually what happens if a pilot "lands out" after failing to find lift or when landing at another airfield is a crew of 3 or 4 helpers will drive to the field towing the gliders trailer. They then take the wings and tailplane off, put it in the trailer, drive back to the airfield and re-assemble the glider. Now you know why we mostly fly triangles to land back at the airfield we took off from. This is where a "Turbo" is great. Pop out the motor and fly home in time for tea and medals. (Blackadder
Goes Forth- British television comedy)

GliderPilot

I will answer the other questions tomorrow, stay tuned

GliderPilot

There is no specified ceiling for a glider. Above 10000 feet we use oxygen. Usually a portable system fitted into the glider, demand fed or constant supply.

The record altitude until recently was just over 49000 feet. It was raised to about 65000 feet by Steve Fosset and a NASA astronaut using a 2 seater glider and wearing space suits. It was called the Perlan project if you want to do a search for details on the web.

The FAI badge system is for after training to solo standard. It involves cross country flights, height gains from altitude of release and a duration flight of more than 5 hours for the silver badge. They rank in order of:- SILVER, GOLD and then DIAMOND. See Welcome to the British Gliding Association for more details.

I would recommend you try gliding D-AIHC, try a web search for your nearest site. They will probably do trial lessons. I know there are many excellent clubs in Germany, I flew at a few sites in the late 80's.

More later.

yyzjo777

Many years ago, I was taken up in an aerobatic glider - truly one of the most awesome and thrilling experiences of my life, absolutely LOVED it!!!

The pilot asked beforehand if I was going to be ok with his "tricks" up in the air. I replied with "Well, I'm a roller coaster fanatic ...". That did it ... he laughed, replied with "Oh, Geez ... you'll be fine then" and up we went!

Jo

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I shop Aviation Delight
Jo-Anne

Talk Nerdy To Me, Lewis Skolnick!

GliderPilot

Okay, now to finish off answering the questions.

Q. What kind of weather is defined as good enough for 500km? What about 300km?

A. Gliders in straight and level flight are constantly descending, either in still air, or in the surrounding air that is descending itself. To remain airborne, a glider pilot must find air that is rising. When the sun heats up the earth’s surface, that heat is eventually released as rising air in what is known as a thermal. Glider pilots will search for thermals and turn tightly using high angles of bank to stay within the narrow columns of rising air. In this way they will gain height. The idea is to climb using thermals and then set off in search of lift in the direction that you want to go. When you contact another decent thermal, begin the process again. Cross country flying in gliders is like crossing a stream using stepping stones. The thermals are the stepping stones in the sky. In this way, we fly to a point known as a turn point, then set course for the next turn point, and then return to our place of departure. It doesn’t always work this way and sometimes a pilot will find themselves getting low and not finding lift. In this situation, we select a suitable farmers field, or convenient paddock or airstrip and land. To get back to our home airfield we either get a tow plane to areotow us out, or if that’s not possible, and this is the usual method of getting home, we get 2 or 3 helpers to drive out to us towing the glider trailer. The crew then remove the wings and tailplane, put it all in the trailer and then drive back to the airfield. Some gliders will stay in this “de-rigged” state in their trailer when not being used. Have you ever driven on a freeway/autobahn/motorway and seen a long, low tube like trailer behind a car? Probably a glider being retrieved from a “land out”.

GliderPilot

So, what weather do I ideally look for to fly cross country? Well the best conditions are usually after a cold front has passed in spring or autumn and then the sun starts shining and the temperatures rise. We start to notice small fluffy white “cotton wool” like clouds called “cumulus”. These cumulus form at the top of a thermal and “mark” the thermal out to glider pilots. Pilots will look for the clouds to see where the lift they need may be. Ideally for me, winds will be light in the region of 5-10 knots so that the wind doesn’t affect the thermal as it rises. For a 500km day, the lift should start developing early in the day at about 1100 hours, and build in strength and remaining till about 1800 hours. This gives 7 hours of hopefully good soaring conditions. This doesn’t happed that often here in the UK, but occurs a lot more regularly in warmer places such as Spain, South Africa and Australia. Cloud bases, and therefore thermal and climb heights, should be about 4500 feet to 5500 feet. Some pilots will enter cloud to climb higher. I don’t like flying in cloud, you never know who or what else may be in them. Cloud flying is illegal for gliders in some countries such as Germany. Themals are not always marked by cloud. If the air is too hot or too dry, thermals will be present, but no cloud. These days are called “blue” days. Gliders will still go cross country, but we look for ground features we know should produce lift, or hope to blunder into good lift as we stumble along.

There are other types of lift that we may use such as hill/ridge lift, wave lift or convergences of air masses, but that’s a different topic.

GliderPilot

There is no special glider for long distance flying, but the higher performance aircraft with a longer wingspan, in excess of 20 meters are best. The record distance was flown in a Schempp-Hirth Nimbus 4DM. This is a 2 seat, high performance glider. It was flown by a very experienced flyer using wave systems in South America to fly long distances around multiple turnpoints up and down the Andes mountain range, wery fast. (150 knots or so. That's fast for a glider).

GliderPilot

Q. Do you need to be certified to be able to attempt long distances?

A. Medically certified as completely insane in my opinion! 14 hours in a tiny cramped cockpit mostly on oxygen, cold, not much food or drink and having to pee into a small bag. (Men-try doing this in a reclined position with your feet at the same height as your head when it is very cold; you'll realise how difficult this is).

Seriously, you need access to a good (expensive) high performance glider. Experience helps, I think that the record holder has about 10000 hours in gliders and a lot of experience in mountain soaring.

Hope these last few posts answered your questions. Go try gliding.

GliderPilot

Glad you liked it. Most gliders are capable of limited aerobatics. The ASK21 training glider will perform loops, chandeles, stall turns, hammer head stalls and will fly inverted. The best 2 seat aerobatic glider is called a "Fox". I have yet to summon up the courage to go up in one. I think I am getting too old and too aware of my own mortality. The guy I saw flying the Fox flew the landing circuit inverted and rolled right way up on final at about 200 feet.

dboyd001

..... My first solo was in a glider. Almost made me want to give up having an engine, but I got over it. No acrobatics, just a short, uneventful flight (mostly because there was too much other air traffic in the area which precluded too much gliding by anyone). Was very odd to be flying and not hear that engine or see a prop in front of me.
..... Great experience though!
Dave (now I'm medically grounded and have to depend on others to do the piloting. )

GliderPilot

Sorry to hear about your grounding.

The bit about not having an engine in front is what appeals to me about gliding. No noisy, whirly thing to manage and worry about. I do like the turbo gliders though, great idea.

A friend of mine flys single and twin engine light aircraft and thinks I'm crazy.
He says his worst nightmare would be to lose an engine, especially on the single, but I however wander about all over the south of England without one. I think it's more of a challenge to travel without an engine. Anyone can follow a prop.

Glider pilot checklist:

Engine; no
Propeller; no
Fuel; no
Certifiable lunatic with a death wish; check!

Mystère

Reminds me the few gliding hours (well, quarters an hour would more adequate !) I had some years ago. I loved it, but at that time I was anxiously looking the other side of airport (Rouen, LFOP) where engines were roaring... I finally crossed the fence, but promised myself to come back to those wonderful birds some day.
I never flew solo, only on ASK13 and SF28 (a kind of heavy motorized glider). I remember one day being in a thermal, circling to gain heigth, and a buzzard was doing the same, opposite of me ! What a feeling !
Now D-AIHC, the best thing to do is find the nearest gliding site, go there on a sunny day (well, maybe a little late now), and ask people there. You won't regret it !

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yyzjo777

Dave ... exactly! For about 2 seconds, I was thinking "ok, there's no engine, how are we flying and what if we crash?".

After that, it was all good plus enjoying the scenery!

Jo

__________________
I shop Aviation Delight
Jo-Anne

Talk Nerdy To Me, Lewis Skolnick!

D-AIHC

Thanks for your patience in answering my questions!

What's the typical required field length for a self-launching glider to 'take-off'? I assume it would depend on the weight of the glider & the pilot and the wind conditions. What kind of licence will that be to qualify to fly the self-launching glider? Not quite a PPL, right?

Have you ever flown on a 'turbo'? If so, did you feel any major differences in flight compared to pure gliding?

__________________

Lufthansa - Star Alliance member since 1997

D-AIHC

Forget Steve Fosset or the Perlan project for a moment...as far as normal gliding in concerned, if a glider decides to go for high-altitude gliding, does one need pressurised and insulated cabin? Or do the local gliding clubs has all the suitable equipment for that purpose?

__________________

Lufthansa - Star Alliance member since 1997

D-AIHC

Is thermal the same as updraft?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GliderPilot Glider pilots will search for thermals and turn tightly using high angles of bank to stay within the narrow columns of rising air. In this way they will gain height. The idea is to climb using thermals and then set off in search of lift in the direction that you want to go. When you contact another decent thermal, begin the process again. Cross country flying in gliders is like crossing a stream using stepping stones. The thermals are the stepping stones in the sky. In this way, we fly to a point known as a turn point, then set course for the next turn point, and then return to our place of departure.

Pardon me for asking, if a glider need to search for thermals for ascent, does that mean that there are elevators on a glider? What about other control surfaces like flaps and rudder? If there are no control surfaces, how do you make a bank? How do you control yaw, roll & pitch?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GliderPilot It doesn’t always work this way and sometimes a pilot will find themselves getting low and not finding lift. In this situation, we select a suitable farmers field, or convenient paddock or airstrip and land.

Do you guys get harrassed by farmers when landing on their fields? What if you damaged their crops?

__________________

Lufthansa - Star Alliance member since 1997

D-AIHC

I hate you glider pilots for not having to do a full checklist...just kidding!!!

__________________

Lufthansa - Star Alliance member since 1997

D-AIHC

Thanks for sharing your gliding experiences! It may be fall in the Northern hemisphere but it's not too late...I can always opt to try my first gliding flight over the Andes.

__________________

Lufthansa - Star Alliance member since 1997