Republicans wanna cut Fed's Retirement benefits to offset Katrina

JOHN JOHNSON · 09-22-2005, 06:29 PM

http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cf...dcn=todaysnews

Considering so many patriotic Federal Employees after years........

Is this the what you, The Republicans, want? DUH

Piston 52 Heavy · 09-22-2005, 09:38 PM

Oh great! Another John Johnson "anti- Republican" thread.

Flying Ace · 09-22-2005, 11:19 PM

The politcians are doing what politcians do best: TALK. Before Katrina decided to give the Gulf Coast one hell of a blow job, New Orleans along with the rest of the region like Biloxi were generating $500,000 a day in tax revenue from all of those gambling casinos. That amounts to a cool $15 million a month in tax revenue just from gambling. Now I ask you...where was all of this money going...certainly not to improve or enhance a levy system like they have in the Netherlands.

Whether you are Republican or Democrat, I think what everyone is witnessing is imcompetence at its best among elected officials, beginning at city and township levels right up to the National level.

JOHN JOHNSON · 09-22-2005, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piston 52 Heavy

Oh great! Another John Johnson "anti- Republican" thread.

At least can you contribute something better to debate whether you support such Republicans' idea? Suppose if your a Federal Employee and have worked past 29 years and you plan to retire next year. Learn such this news and what would you react? Then?

I do not think that it is an approximately to skim out retirement for something else! The same things applies to (ie: ) aviation industries that have used pension to pay off some of debts or whatsover.

Last question, When you are 75+ and suffer joints, arthist(spell), and weaky elderly which become incapable to work like you used to when you was a young. Sorry no pension for you. Then, what? I want to hear commentary or opinion from you instead above.

JOHN JOHNSON · 09-22-2005, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

The politcians are doing what politcians do best: TALK. Before Katrina decided to give the Gulf Coast one hell of a blow job, New Orleans along with the rest of the region like Biloxi were generating $500,000 a day in tax revenue from all of those gambling casinos. That amounts to a cool $15 million a month in tax revenue just from gambling. Now I ask you...where was all of this money going...certainly not to improve or enhance a levy system like they have in the Netherlands.

Whether you are Republican or Democrat, I think what everyone is witnessing is imcompetence at its best among elected officials, beginning at city and township levels right up to the National level.

Much appreciate.

By the way, Rumors and I do not have any proof to prove whether true as I heard that gas price is actually in $1.40 a gallon range while store are overcharging in $3 range. If this is true then where the hell half of revenue goes?

Looks like Government (R or D) are pumping up lot of money, drying us up, and one day something will come up. Will our life become easier then? Sounds like possible we are being under reorganization period? Time will tell....

Planecrazy · 09-22-2005, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOHN JOHNSON

http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cf...dcn=todaysnews

Considering so many patriotic Federal Employees after years........

Is this the what you, The Republicans, want? DUH

I am afraid you have a great time gaining sympathy for such changes from people who have not worked for the Federal government. In 30 years of pension plan administration for some generous companies I never found one who offered anything approaching the Federal pension benefits. As an example, retirement by an employee before 65 years of age in most programs requires that the employee have a minimum of 30 years of service with the company and have a total number score of at least 80 (ie. the persons age at retirement plus the number of years of service). Now that was in the days when companies offer defined benefit programs, something they stopped doing in the early 1990s when such plans were converted to Cash Benefit plans, similar to rolling over to an I.R.A., eliminating the guarantee of any specific monthly payment.

One of the largest porkbarrel areas of the Federal budget has been its overly generous pension programs and it is not just ultra right wing members of Congress who wish to address this. The workers effected will, of course, not be happy about it. But my suggestion for Federal employees would be to look to living on less than they anticipated when they retire.

B787Dreamliner · 09-23-2005, 12:56 AM

I am all for cuts, as long as the Senators and Congressmen/women & Judges & President lead the way!

Whatever cuts they impose should also apply equally to them, heck, more-so.

To long they have exempted themselves from the laws and burdens they impose on us...both Dems and Repubs (Republicrats)

I believe all current/future/and past federal officials/management should be forced on to 401's, and equally poor healthcare!

JOHN JOHNSON · 09-23-2005, 01:01 AM

As you explained some other retirement varieties among the other companies and I must agree with you that we are seeing declining with "80 points" system and some other kinds of retirement programs. Some of you are very fortunately to have 80 point pension as you can retire much earlier if you started work in 20's. Now it is rare.

The more things get harder among the private sectors then government agencies tend to follow.

I want to understand why are private sectors wiping out such pension or any retirement programs by partipicate workers into "self-vest" or Social Security. (Like "let the government handle.") While the CEO/Managements are getting far far far generousity than we, "the little peeple, are facing. This does not seem to bother the Government by allowing CEO/Management to retire with Millions Dollars even under bankruptcy. (USAir management leaving with a suitcase of whistle $1,000,000 while workers lose pension for example)

JOHN JOHNSON · 09-23-2005, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Giambone

I am all for cuts, as long as the Senators and Congressmen/women & Judges & President lead the way!

Whatever cuts they impose should also apply equally to them, heck, more-so.

To long they have exempted themselves from the laws and burdens they impose on us...both Dems and Repubs (Republicrats)

I believe all current/future/and past federal officials/management should be forced on to 401's, and equally poor healthcare!

No offense, I dont know where you work but sound like that you are not happy with benefit whatever your company offers? Funny thing when I read newspaper commentary and I find this baffle and odd to find this believeable. There was a commentary wrote from a road construction that he whined regarding to pay as he do not get pay whenever inclement weathers while government get paid story..... That is something I have not thought about.

As your comment above and I am seeing that the vast majority want is equal that included retirement, health ins, and etc etc.....

I question whether majority are for all-equal-system? Example someone make $100,000 a year and someone make $20,000 a year. Does that mean that will make you happy to see that all of people regardless income are to live on $1,000 a month with equal healthcare regardless the history of income range instead of seeing some of $100,000 a year enjoying a $50,000 a year retirement while $20,000 a year enjoying a $10,000 a year retirement?

Just curious to understand the fairness that most of people are conveying to change how we lives.

Great debates! Keep that up! Very interesting subject and education!

JOHN JOHNSON · 09-23-2005, 01:19 AM

I am not an elderly like Jimbo. The possibilities it looks like?

Old time the way Government set an example and many private companies followed...... Until today.... More private companies are getting their way. This is like telling the Government message "Either you help us or we pack our gears and move out from this country." Over 15 years we have seen declining or changing pension system.

The more people suffer and the more government done nothing about it the more people except the same thing what government are offering within their agencies.....

Now it looks like the Government are following the private companies' example unlike the old time? Are private companies more powerful than the Government today?

Am I getting the picture right?

B787Dreamliner · 09-23-2005, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOHN JOHNSON

No offense, I dont know where you work but sound like that you are not happy with benefit whatever your company offers? Funny thing when I read newspaper commentary and I find this baffle and odd to find this believeable. There was a commentary wrote from a road construction that he whined regarding to pay as he do not get pay whenever inclement weathers while government get paid story..... That is something I have not thought about.

As your comment above and I am seeing that the vast majority want is equal that included retirement, health ins, and etc etc.....

I question whether majority are for all-equal-system? Example someone make $100,000 a year and someone make $20,000 a year. Does that mean that will make you happy to see that all of people regardless income are to live on $1,000 a month with equal healthcare regardless the history of income range instead of seeing some of $100,000 a year enjoying a $50,000 a year retirement while $20,000 a year enjoying a $10,000 a year retirement?

Just curious to understand the fairness that most of people are conveying to change how we lives.

Great debates! Keep that up! Very interesting subject and education!

John

Actually, I work 2 full time jobs. Call me selfish, with 1 not being enough. I guess I am a glutton for punishment. Actually, I love both my jobs. I work for an airline, and I am a loan officer for a mortgage company. I get no retirement benefits from either one... I do have several 401K's however, but they are/will be nowhere near enough to support my wife and I when and if I ever get to retire. I have to work hard now because I was stupid & lazy in my youth. But Life has a way of educating you.

I realized a long time ago that my future, and my retirement was/is in my own hands. Social Security won't be there, at least in it's present form, so I have taken steps to try help myself. I own 3 rental properties in addition to my own home, and hope to increase this portfolio by a couple homes a year. I don't make much in positive cash flow now, but my hope is in time, these "investments" will pay off.

The bottom line John is I don't expect the government to take care of me. That is not their job. That is my responsibility. There are many people lazy people who are more than willing to sit on their fat lazy asses and let everyone else do everything for them, and then they wonder why they drown in New Orleans, they wonder why they never get ahead. For most, it is simply because they are stupid, and lazy. Now I know that there are those who are truly disabled, and I have no problem trying to help them, but those who are able, and refuse to work, or take their own safety, and that of their families in to there own hands, i.e. if you'd rather loot a Wal-mart then to get your *** out of town, then you deserve to drown...drown in your own stupidity. Drown in your own laziness. I don't feel pity/sorrow/compassion for you at all.

The problem John is that our "elected" officials have no problem voting themselves special priviledges...well, what makes them so special? If they want to cut government employees pensions, then let them begin with their own, and learn to lead by example.

JOHN JOHNSON · 09-23-2005, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Giambone

John

Actually, I work 2 full time jobs. Call me selfish, with 1 not being enough. I guess I am a glutton for punishment. Actually, I love both my jobs. I work for an airline, and I am a loan officer for a mortgage company. I get no retirement benefits from either one... I do have several 401K's however, but they are/will be nowhere near enough to support my wife and I when and if I ever get to retire. I have to work hard now because I was stupid & lazy in my youth. But Life has a way of educating you.

I realized a long time ago that my future, and my retirement was/is in my own hands. Social Security won't be there, at least in it's present form, so I have taken steps to try help myself. I own 3 rental properties in addition to my own home, and hope to increase this portfolio by a couple homes a year. I don't make much in positive cash flow now, but my hope is in time, these "investments" will pay off.

The bottom line John is I don't expect the government to take care of me. That is not their job. That is my responsibility. There are many people lazy people who are more than willing to sit on their fat lazy asses and let everyone else do everything for them, and then they wonder why they drown in New Orleans, they wonder why they never get ahead. For most, it is simply because they are stupid, and lazy. Now I know that there are those who are truly disabled, and I have no problem trying to help them, but those who are able, and refuse to work, or take their own safety, and that of their families in to there own hands, i.e. if you'd rather loot a Wal-mart then to get your *** out of town, then you deserve to drown...drown in your own stupidity. Drown in your own laziness. I don't feel pity/sorrow/compassion for you at all.

The problem John is that our "elected" officials have no problem voting themselves special priviledges...well, what makes them so special? If they want to cut government employees pensions, then let them begin with their own, and learn to lead by example.

WOW! No, I do not consider you as selfish. I see that your fruastuating with what your living on and I feel your pain. (This is an developing of anger in disgusts.)

This is a clear example of our society's attitude? (Big difference if you compare the difference between 80's and today.) Which is making our life unpleaseant. Really, It is somewhat amazing how can private companies' such practices can change our attitudes that influence the next and forth....Moreover 20 years+ ago when people was in 20's they took advantage of flexibility system that was managed by 50-60''s.... 20 years later.... Those 20's turn into 40's and became management and they tend to be more ******* than their past management by making so much ridiciousily rules applies, strictier, and unreasonable toward to young workers which is making youngs' future so uncertain while 40's enjoyed their flexibility 20 years ago and in near retirement.... "Who cares" attitude motto seem to become very common here. (ie: Fired for not call in just one time sick leave or absent to resuce their relative from storm, in a "Big" time trouble over little very little mistake by worker, and etc like this. 20 years ago you do not get in ridiciousily trouble such as but to learn the mistake and move on.) Know what I mean?

Going to be interesting to see what would happen in next 20 years.

(ie: I wonder whether we will be hearing more firing because of unschedule bathroom break time, (No more phone call-in) must go work whether you real sick with flu and let the boss to eye-seen your in presence before boss send you out home, other add-on ridiciousily items in rule book!)

I think Social Security should be there by time you retire. So no worries. With your other investment and if this pans out and you will be a real filthy rich man!

(Hope this ease your anger in some ways. Sorta of up-ups for you.)

N2272V · 09-23-2005, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOHN JOHNSON

I am not an elderly like Jimbo. The possibilities it looks like?

HEY, HEY, HEY, don't go dragging my old fartness into this lame debate.

I RESEMBLE that remark!

As for this debate, Todd has expressed my sympathies on this one perfectly.

Carry on!

JOHN JOHNSON · 09-23-2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N2272V

HEY, HEY, HEY, don't go dragging my old fartness into this lame debate.

I RESEMBLE that remark!

As for this debate, Todd has expressed my sympathies on this one perfectly.

Carry on!

Next time, Feel free to call me Deaf-mute & Dumb! That would make us even.

All I was asking for little history course from an elderly that was there in 60,70, and mid 80's to able tell stories. I was a little-N-tootie during time and was too busy playing with my toys by then.

I am not sure whether Planecrazy is Todd as you stated above? Todd's nickname is JustPlaneCrazy?

You enjoy your weekend!

JOHN JOHNSON · 09-23-2005, 03:33 PM

Very interesting debates!!! Something unthinkable situations from some other certain individual's situations. Now I see that pains are too high.

Let's hope that one day our livehood will be far better than we are going thru today. Be nice if I have a magic wand and make all of us to have a generous income, benefit, and all of the works..... Unfortunately I do not have a power magic wand. I am just like rest of you, The little peeple.

Thanks!!!

P.S. Hey Pitson, Please work up with your Anti-Democrat and see how this can be an entertainmenting!

Planecrazy · 09-23-2005, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOHN JOHNSON

I want to understand why are private sectors wiping out such pension or any retirement programs by partipicate workers into "self-vest" or Social Security. (Like "let the government handle.") While the CEO/Managements are getting far far far generousity than we, "the little peeple, are facing. This does not seem to bother the Government by allowing CEO/Management to retire with Millions Dollars even under bankruptcy. (USAir management leaving with a suitcase of whistle $1,000,000 while workers lose pension for example)

Blame President Jimmy Carter and the Democratically controlled Congress who passed the Pension Reform Act of 1978, mandating that companies fully fund their pension liabilities and report these expenses in their financial statements. Actually, even back then, the government and outside analysts saw that companies could not possibly pay the amounts they were promising in future pension payments. This act also introduced the 401k program and later the 401kSEP programs hoping that companies would transfer actual money into plans owned by the employees. Companies first saw it slicker to "fund" their pensions with their own company's stock leading to situations such as the first United Airlines bankruptcy where the, then employees ended up owning a dying company. As more restrictions were placed on funding methods for conventional pensions, companies started to quickly move to other options, ie. 401k contributions, etc.

The people still covered by defined benefit pension programs became increasingly expensive to their employers. Those people still with such plans are contractually guaranteed their benefits, as long as the company continues to exist. Sadly, we see how that is going recently as such companies are increasingly unable to compete due to such high fringe costs.

Enter the high paid executives. Why do companies pay such high salaries? How much do you need to pay for heartless paid assassins? Ones who will make the nasty changes perceived necessary to allow the company to survive.

The who paradigm is rotten

N2272V · 09-23-2005, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOHN JOHNSON

Next time, Feel free to call me Deaf-mute & Dumb! That would make us even.

Awwww Johnny. But you're a LOVEABLE dumb. HaHa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOHN JOHNSON

I am not sure whether Planecrazy is Todd as you stated above? Todd's nickname is JustPlaneCrazy?

Oops you are right. Call me DUMB. I got planecrazy mixed up with Todd. SORRY Todd.

Carry on!

JustPlaneCrazy · 09-23-2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N2272V

Oops you are right. Call me DUMB. I got planecrazy mixed up with Todd. SORRY Todd.

Planecrazy is my son

Planecrazy · 09-24-2005, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustPlaneCrazy

Planecrazy is my son

If I'm your son, boy you are REALLY older than dirt!

winged racer · 09-26-2005, 08:12 PM

All the federal employees retirement contributions DO NOT go into the Social Security system as the majority of american workers does. Instead it goes into a different fund and since they will never lose any retirement benefits because of this being a 'federal retirement' they will live to enjoy a great retirement unlike many airline employees who have lost everything including me. I however did a little planning and thus am a little better off than many of my fellow workers in the airline industry. So if the federal employees have to contribute a little more for health care etc, then so be it. I lost a lot of my retirement when US AIRWAYS declared bankruptcy. My retirement was never guaranteed and after the PBGC took over the retirements I went from 25,000 a year to 3,300.00. Unfortunately only the 'boys' at the top won big getting big bonuses for objectives met before and during bankruptcy at the expense of the employees taking pay cuts, large increases in medical and of course large losses in retirement monies. Do I feel sorry for the federal employees....not at all.....at least the cuts if they come to be will be going to a good cause.....helping Katrina victims.

STEVEJ · 09-27-2005, 09:45 PM

I find it amazing that there has always been money available to re-build Iraq, yet when it comes time to re-build our own country we have to cut benefits to pay for it.

Of course there was plenty of money for good ole Mike Brown, he is getting upward of $147,000.00 to work as a consultant to FEMA for the next 30 days,(yes DAYS) I guess since not a single Arabian horse was lost in the hurricane his expertise and background in this field needs to be passed on.

and it gets worse, a republican congressman from Florida just held a meeting in DC for lobbyists representing companies that want a piece of all this no-bid action going on along the gulf coast, these are the same guys , who if they are not answering charges of defrauding the government, are no-bidding the re-building of Iraq, and we all know how well that is going!

09-22-2005, 06:29 PM	#1
JOHN JOHNSON Mysterious Collector Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,196	Republicans wanna cut Fed's Retirement benefits to offset Katrina http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cf...dcn=todaysnews Considering so many patriotic Federal Employees after years........ Is this the what you, The Republicans, want? DUH __________________ Who should I consider? Dumbocrat Clinton or Ruptublican Johnny Mc Cain? Jimmy Mc Donald Help me!

09-22-2005, 09:38 PM	#2
Piston 52 Heavy Master Collector Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 755	Oh great! Another John Johnson "anti- Republican" thread. __________________ Ted Kennedy's driving has killed more people than my hand gun!

09-22-2005, 11:19 PM	#3
Flying Ace Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,150	Show me the money The politcians are doing what politcians do best: TALK. Before Katrina decided to give the Gulf Coast one hell of a blow job, New Orleans along with the rest of the region like Biloxi were generating $500,000 a day in tax revenue from all of those gambling casinos. That amounts to a cool $15 million a month in tax revenue just from gambling. Now I ask you...where was all of this money going...certainly not to improve or enhance a levy system like they have in the Netherlands. Whether you are Republican or Democrat, I think what everyone is witnessing is imcompetence at its best among elected officials, beginning at city and township levels right up to the National level.

09-23-2005, 01:01 AM	#8
JOHN JOHNSON Mysterious Collector Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,196	Planecrazy, As you explained some other retirement varieties among the other companies and I must agree with you that we are seeing declining with "80 points" system and some other kinds of retirement programs. Some of you are very fortunately to have 80 point pension as you can retire much earlier if you started work in 20's. Now it is rare. The more things get harder among the private sectors then government agencies tend to follow. I want to understand why are private sectors wiping out such pension or any retirement programs by partipicate workers into "self-vest" or Social Security. (Like "let the government handle.") While the CEO/Managements are getting far far far generousity than we, "the little peeple, are facing. This does not seem to bother the Government by allowing CEO/Management to retire with Millions Dollars even under bankruptcy. (USAir management leaving with a suitcase of whistle $1,000,000 while workers lose pension for example) __________________ Who should I consider? Dumbocrat Clinton or Ruptublican Johnny Mc Cain? Jimmy Mc Donald Help me!

09-23-2005, 01:19 AM	#10
JOHN JOHNSON Mysterious Collector Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,196	Interesting...... I am not an elderly like Jimbo. The possibilities it looks like? Old time the way Government set an example and many private companies followed...... Until today.... More private companies are getting their way. This is like telling the Government message "Either you help us or we pack our gears and move out from this country." Over 15 years we have seen declining or changing pension system. The more people suffer and the more government done nothing about it the more people except the same thing what government are offering within their agencies..... Now it looks like the Government are following the private companies' example unlike the old time? Are private companies more powerful than the Government today? Am I getting the picture right? __________________ Who should I consider? Dumbocrat Clinton or Ruptublican Johnny Mc Cain? Jimmy Mc Donald Help me!

09-23-2005, 12:56 AM	#7
B787Dreamliner Senior Collector Join Date: May 2000 Location: INDY Posts: 217	I am all for cuts, as long as the Senators and Congressmen/women & Judges & President lead the way! Whatever cuts they impose should also apply equally to them, heck, more-so. To long they have exempted themselves from the laws and burdens they impose on us...both Dems and Repubs (Republicrats) I believe all current/future/and past federal officials/management should be forced on to 401's, and equally poor healthcare!

09-23-2005, 03:33 PM	#15
JOHN JOHNSON Mysterious Collector Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 4,196	Folks, Folks, Thanks! Very interesting debates!!! Something unthinkable situations from some other certain individual's situations. Now I see that pains are too high. Let's hope that one day our livehood will be far better than we are going thru today. Be nice if I have a magic wand and make all of us to have a generous income, benefit, and all of the works..... Unfortunately I do not have a power magic wand. I am just like rest of you, The little peeple. Thanks!!! P.S. Hey Pitson, Please work up with your Anti-Democrat and see how this can be an entertainmenting! __________________ Who should I consider? Dumbocrat Clinton or Ruptublican Johnny Mc Cain? Jimmy Mc Donald Help me!

09-26-2005, 08:12 PM	#20
winged racer Master Collector Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: palm city florida Age: 60 Posts: 679	for whatever its worth All the federal employees retirement contributions DO NOT go into the Social Security system as the majority of american workers does. Instead it goes into a different fund and since they will never lose any retirement benefits because of this being a 'federal retirement' they will live to enjoy a great retirement unlike many airline employees who have lost everything including me. I however did a little planning and thus am a little better off than many of my fellow workers in the airline industry. So if the federal employees have to contribute a little more for health care etc, then so be it. I lost a lot of my retirement when US AIRWAYS declared bankruptcy. My retirement was never guaranteed and after the PBGC took over the retirements I went from 25,000 a year to 3,300.00. Unfortunately only the 'boys' at the top won big getting big bonuses for objectives met before and during bankruptcy at the expense of the employees taking pay cuts, large increases in medical and of course large losses in retirement monies. Do I feel sorry for the federal employees....not at all.....at least the cuts if they come to be will be going to a good cause.....helping Katrina victims.

09-27-2005, 09:45 PM	#21
STEVEJ Insane Collector Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Stony Brook, N.Y. Age: 100 Posts: 1,648	Back to the topic... I find it amazing that there has always been money available to re-build Iraq, yet when it comes time to re-build our own country we have to cut benefits to pay for it. Of course there was plenty of money for good ole Mike Brown, he is getting upward of $147,000.00 to work as a consultant to FEMA for the next 30 days,(yes DAYS) I guess since not a single Arabian horse was lost in the hurricane his expertise and background in this field needs to be passed on. and it gets worse, a republican congressman from Florida just held a meeting in DC for lobbyists representing companies that want a piece of all this no-bid action going on along the gulf coast, these are the same guys , who if they are not answering charges of defrauding the government, are no-bidding the re-building of Iraq, and we all know how well that is going! Last edited by STEVEJ; 09-27-2005 at 09:46 PM.